| Pages:
1
2
3 |
vgabndo
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3461
Registered: 12-8-2003
Location: Mt. Shasta, CA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Checking-off my bucket list.
|
|
...and those numbers, Wessongroup, are very important politically as well as financially. Counting on even non-partisan governmental organizations to
give us the real, un-spun facts at this point, me thinks, is giving our public servants too much credit.
Maybe, to protect their trillion dollar investment in US paper, the communist Chinese will do a comprehensive study on the Mexican immigrant economic
picture to back up their future requirements of the US in that area. Then we'd know. 
Undoubtedly, there are people who cannot afford to give the anchor of sanity even the slightest tug. Sam Harris
"The situation is far too dire for pessimism."
Bill Kauth
Carl Sagan said, "We are a way for the cosmos to know itself."
PEACE, LOVE AND FISH TACOS
|
|
|
JaraHurd
Nomad
Posts: 203
Registered: 3-21-2007
Location: Los Angeles County
Member Is Offline
Mood: probably annoyed
|
|
Gotta jump in here for a brief moment.... I heard a statistic on the news (I know..I know..I know...silly me to trust the media..but...here it is..)
that only about 60% of potential taxpayers in the US pay any Federal income tax at all. Hmmm.. How can this be? Well..if that is true (scary as
hell....) or any where near true..we have a lot of WORTHLESS people living in this country and I seriously DOUBT they are Hispanic. What makes me say
this?
Well... Having lived a substantial amount of my life (I am almost 50) in South Carolina and California...I would notice that while driving during my
days off (which were normally NOT during weekends..) I would drive through neighborhoods in Charleston, South Carolina and now Los Angeles,
California..I would see a lot of apparently able-bodied young (under 50...) people just lounging around..doing nothing, for days on end... .. and I
gotta tell you...most of them are NOT Hispanic... yup..this has always peeed me off.
I was in boot camp at 17 doing stuff that most "Americans" will not do. I worked my way from the bottom (I can clean a toilet like no other...) to
where I am now making a decent living. How the hell does the U.S government man its military? I have no idea because most young people today are NOT
patriotic and will NOT serve their country. That is an absolute fact.
I look at what jobs young citizens of the U.S. will and won't do. It is scary. And they want to make a LOT of money to do minimal work. How the hell
do they afford these fancy (and expensive) electronics that they love to play with...? I don't want to hear that illegals are taking jobs from
American citizens. I think illegals simply work jobs that require work and those are jobs that U.S. citizens of any age will not do...
I don't know what the answers are..but...there is sure a lot of finger-pointing. I find the vast majority of illegal immigrants to be decent,
hard-working people. It's a very tough issue. And all I know is... if the tables were reversed..and the USA was the poor country...I would cross that
border illegally in a hot minute...
|
|
|
wessongroup
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 21152
Registered: 8-9-2009
Location: Mission Viejo
Member Is Offline
Mood: Suicide Hot line ... please hold
|
|
| Quote: | Originally posted by Cypress
How 'bout a $538.3 billion tab to the US taxpayer annually. Info was found on national policy institute website among others. |
Say isn't that around a half a TRILLION dollars... now that could add up to real money HUH !!!
But who's counting... well, just maybe the FED...
"Investors clamoring for the Fed to renew its quantitative-easing program heard no mention of it in Bernanke's much-anticipated Jackson Hole speech,
the WSJ's Jon Hilsenrath says?
See them still buying Treasury.. and many going long bond .. the futures on 10 year T's is out over 130... just saying...
[Edited on 8-26-2011 by wessongroup]
|
|
|
JoeJustJoe
Banned
Posts: 21045
Registered: 9-9-2010
Location: Occupied Aztlan
Member Is Offline
Mood: Mad as hell
|
|
| Quote: | Originally posted by MitchMan
I wonder what the stats are in California and for the entirety of the USA for measuring the net financial cost or the net financial benefit of the
illegals in this country, to this country. Aside from any purely cultural issues (and there are substantial such issues), the aforementioned question
is, to me, a huge pivotal question when evaluating the immigration issue and its solutions. TW above provided some stats to that effect.
Going back and forth with inflamatory statements without objective support is a bit reckless.
Whatever the accurate comprehensive pertinent stats support (either net deteriment or net benefit), I think that you have to incorporate the economic
benefit to this country of paying illegals less than what would be paid for the same labor to legal residents in the absence of any illegals present
in this country. In other words, do the illegal Mexican immigrants, on balance, contribute more to our USA economy than they cost (or consume) in
this country? That's an objective question that needs to be answered with objective facts, not opinions.
I think that once that question is accurately answered, some of us may have to rethink the issue. |
You'll never get accurate numbers especially from the anti-immigration crowd and think tanks like the supposedly independent "CIS" which is really a
"white nationalist" front see link below regarding CIS that's widely quoted)
http://www.splcenter.org/publications/the-nativist-lobby-thr...
Groups like CIS rarely if ever write about any tax revenue or benefits both legal and undocumented bring to this country.
The studies I have seen from both sides seem to show undocumented immigrants hurt local communities if they are concentrated in that community, and so
undocumented immigration could be a net lost at the city and state level. However, when you look at it at the federal level. Immigration both legal
and undocumented is a net plus because they are paying such things as social security, and most aren't hanging around to collect. And of course
immigration of any kind has historically been a net positive in this country, despite the fact most immigrants to the USA have been demonized by the
current xenophobic Americans at the time.
Again when you look at these type of immigration studies that tries to answer the question if immigrants especially Mexican undocumented immigrants
help or hurt America at the federal, state, or city level. Look to see if they give the immigrants any credit at all, because even if the undocumented
immigrant works under the table. He is still paying taxes indirectly, and many immigrants pay taxes directly too.
|
|
|
wessongroup
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 21152
Registered: 8-9-2009
Location: Mission Viejo
Member Is Offline
Mood: Suicide Hot line ... please hold
|
|
Just couldn't resist a "shout out" huh JOe... 
Seemed the original post quoted was devoid of any pandering... take it to OT..
Moderator assistant wessongroup ...
[Edited on 8-26-2011 by wessongroup]
|
|
|
JoeJustJoe
Banned
Posts: 21045
Registered: 9-9-2010
Location: Occupied Aztlan
Member Is Offline
Mood: Mad as hell
|
|
| Quote: | Originally posted by sanquintinsince73
| Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
| Quote: | Originally posted by JESSE
What "trash" are you referring to? |
Mexico's human garbage that crosses the border to slither into gangs and live on the edge of civilized humanity. Mara Salvatrucha trash and La Eme
scum.
That's who I effing mean.
That you would ask is only another example of Mexico's selective blindness. |
Part of the trash that I think my friend Dennis forgot to mention is scum like the fella in this story.
Suspected Illegal Immigrant Faces Charges in Alleged Hit-And-Run Death of California Boy
Published August 23, 2011
| FoxNews.com
* Print
* Email
* Share
* Comments
*
*
*
* Text Size
Charges have been filed against an unlicensed driver and suspected illegal immigrant who allegedly killed a 4-year-old boy in a hit-and-run accident,
the San Francisco Chronicle reports.
The newspaper reports that prosecutors in Sonoma County charged 22-year-old Marcos Lopez Garcia with felony hit-and-run, two misdemeanors and
vehicular manslaughter, among other charges, in the Thursday death of Christopher "Buddy" Rowe of Santa Rosa.
Garcia had two prior arrests for driving without a license, according to the newspaper.
Christopher was reportedly killed on his way to soccer practice while crossing the street with his mother and two sisters, including the boy's twin.
"Little Buddy will be remembered as an energetic, curious, active young boy, who was also kind, compassionate and caring, especially with his twin
sister," the family said in a written statement. "We will always remember his ever-present smile, beautiful steel-blue eyes and peace-loving nature.
"The man who stole Buddy's life from us will be one day free, but we will always carry the burden of losing him forever," the family said.
Garcia is being held in the Sonoma County Jail on a $500,000 bond.
Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/08/23/suspected-illegal-immig... |
This is called talking out a broad paint brush and painting all undocumented Mexicans as drunk criminals that need to be deported back to
Mexico.......the whole lot of them!
But if you ask me to respond to a negative portrayed story about an undocumented who killed an American while drunk.
I'd just say, "so what?" Every race or ethic group has their share of drunks who sometimes get behind the wheel and kill people including kids! There
is no need to take the paint brush out and paint all immigrants documented or not with that paint brush. There are millions of Mexicans immigrants in
the USA and many of them are undocumented, however it's safe to say 99 percent of them haven't killed anybody while drunk, and the vast majority of
immigrants are hard working people trying to make a better life for themselves.
|
|
|
Cypress
Elite Nomad
Posts: 7641
Registered: 3-12-2006
Location: on the bayou
Member Is Offline
Mood: undecided
|
|
| Quote: | | I'd just say, "so what?" Every race or ethic group has their share of drunks who sometimes get behind the wheel and kill people including kids!
|
And???
|
|
|
Bajahowodd
Elite Nomad
Posts: 9274
Registered: 12-15-2008
Location: Disneyland Adjacent and anywhere in Baja
Member Is Offline
|
|
"The problem with today's economy is not immigrants; the problem is our broken immigration laws that allow big business to exploit workers who lack
legal status, driving down wages for all workers. If every immigrant were required to get into the system, pay their dues, and become U.S. citizens,
we could block big business' upper hand, eliminate the two-tiered workforce, and build a united labor movement that raises wages and living standards
for all workers." This from the SEIU website page.
Seems that a far ranging assortment of interests groups have their own particular dog in this fight.
A primary reason that the US has not engaged in major reforms of the immigration laws and practices, is that no matter which party is in power in DC,
business benefits from cheap labor and minimal or no benefits.
As far as the reference to the socio-economic status of the illegals that come here....well, if you were a Mexican of means, had a decent job, Etc.,
why would you risk your life to get NOB for a low wage job?
I noticed a story today about alleged cartel members torching a casino in Monterrey resulting in large scale loss of life.
So, Calderon, through an aide, puts out a blistering condemnation of the the US and its failure to do something about the demand for drugs.
So, let me see. The ruling class in Mexico is perfectly ok with not creating sufficient jobs in Mexico in order to keep their people on home soil, but
have a major problem with US demand for drugs.
Seems to me that in both cases, NOB workers mailing money back home, and the cartels enriching themselves from vast drug profits, Mexico benefits.
I do have to agree with Joe about his observation about that hit and run guy, however. It could have been anyone. And if anyone would like to open
that can of worms about providing drivers licenses to illegals, to ensure they learn how to drive properly and purchase insurance, be my guest.
[Edited on 8-26-2011 by Bajahowodd]
|
|
|
BajaGringo
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3922
Registered: 8-24-2006
Location: La Chorera
Member Is Offline
Mood: Let's have a BBQ!
|
|
| Quote: | Originally posted by Cypress
How 'bout a $538.3 billion tab to the US taxpayer annually. Info was found on national policy institute website among others. |
I agree that the US needs to secure the borders and enforce worker ID/SSN verification including heavy punishment for corporate abusers who have
exploited the cheaper workforce. I also think they need to come up with some kind of manageable plan for those who are already in the country, working
and part of the economy.
The $538.3 billion tab (based on what I read) was the cost for total services provided and did not credit the billions paid into the system via others
SSN's, sales taxes, excise taxes at the pumps, permit fees, etc etc etc on top of what they pump into the economy in their local communities where
they shop.
It is not a simple problem and the realistic answer will be just as complicated. I wish I knew what it was...
|
|
|
DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
Member Is Offline
|
|
| Quote: | Originally posted by BajaGringo
It is not a simple problem and the realistic answer will be just as complicated. I wish I knew what it was... |
I think they should just have to buy us beer for the rest of our lives.
Well....you wanted simple.
|
|
|
JoeJustJoe
Banned
Posts: 21045
Registered: 9-9-2010
Location: Occupied Aztlan
Member Is Offline
Mood: Mad as hell
|
|
| Quote: | Originally posted by JaraHurd
Gotta jump in here for a brief moment.... I heard a statistic on the news (I know..I know..I know...silly me to trust the media..but...here it is..)
that only about 60% of potential taxpayers in the US pay any Federal income tax at all. Hmmm.. How can this be? Well..if that is true (scary as
hell....) or any where near true..we have a lot of WORTHLESS people living in this country and I seriously DOUBT they are Hispanic. What makes me say
this?
Well... Having lived a substantial amount of my life (I am almost 50) in South Carolina and California...I would notice that while driving during my
days off (which were normally NOT during weekends..) I would drive through neighborhoods in Charleston, South Carolina and now Los Angeles,
California..I would see a lot of apparently able-bodied young (under 50...) people just lounging around..doing nothing, for days on end... .. and I
gotta tell you...most of them are NOT Hispanic... yup..this has always peeed me off.
I was in boot camp at 17 doing stuff that most "Americans" will not do. I worked my way from the bottom (I can clean a toilet like no other...) to
where I am now making a decent living. How the hell does the U.S government man its military? I have no idea because most young people today are NOT
patriotic and will NOT serve their country. That is an absolute fact.
I look at what jobs young citizens of the U.S. will and won't do. It is scary. And they want to make a LOT of money to do minimal work. How the hell
do they afford these fancy (and expensive) electronics that they love to play with...? I don't want to hear that illegals are taking jobs from
American citizens. I think illegals simply work jobs that require work and those are jobs that U.S. citizens of any age will not do...
I don't know what the answers are..but...there is sure a lot of finger-pointing. I find the vast majority of illegal immigrants to be decent,
hard-working people. It's a very tough issue. And all I know is... if the tables were reversed..and the USA was the poor country...I would cross that
border illegally in a hot minute... |
Supposedly undocumented Mexicans take away jobs from hard working Americans who are willing to take any job including working on farms. Yeah right.
Now I'm not saying that Mexicans only do menial hard labor type jobs, because Mexicans do a wide range of work, and work in many industries in the US.
However, many Mexican immigrants are willing to work in some of the most hard working menial back breaking industries like farm labor or meat packing
industries.
In Alabama they have that mean-spirited unconstitutional new immigration law they are tying to get past the Federal courts that is even worst than
Arizona's new immigration law that got it's teeth knocked out in the Federal courts, but still is in Federal courts.
Anyway just the threat of the new immigration law is hurting certain industries in Alabama, and is only a matter of time the new Alabama law becomes
buried in court, and the immigrants return to Alabama because there is much demand for their work.
I really don't know states like Alabama and Arizona try to past such harsh new immigration laws, when it's obvious they are going to lose in court,
and it's highly unlikely even if they win some of these court cases that they will be able keep immigrants out of their states when powerful
industries demand lower cost workers, and have the ear of the politicians who do the bidding for them.
_____________________________________________
Immigration law already hurting farms
MONTGOMERY | Horticultural farm owner Bill Cook said he’s already having trouble finding the workers he needs before most of the state’s new law
against illegal immigration takes effect.
Representatives of the Alabama Department of Agriculture, Alabama Farmer’s Federation and other groups that work with growers said some farmers have
told them they’ve already lost half their workforce. The state doesn’t have official figures yet, however.
http://www.tuscaloosanews.com/article/20110808/news/11080978...
|
|
|
BajaGringo
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3922
Registered: 8-24-2006
Location: La Chorera
Member Is Offline
Mood: Let's have a BBQ!
|
|
| Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
| Quote: | Originally posted by BajaGringo
It is not a simple problem and the realistic answer will be just as complicated. I wish I knew what it was... |
I think they should just have to buy us beer for the rest of our lives.
Well....you wanted simple. |
I love a bright mind that can come up with simple yet brilliant answers to complicated problems.
Salud my friend!
|
|
|
| Pages:
1
2
3 |
![[*]](images/xmbforum/default_icon.gif){kind=icon}
