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larryC
Super Nomad
Posts: 1493
Registered: 8-11-2008
Location: BoLA
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If you mean add a battery to a bank that is a larger or smaller amp hour capacity than the other batteries in the bank, that doesn't work well because
that battery will come up to voltage quicker than the other batteries (if it has a lower amp hour capacity) and then the charge controller will think
the rest of the battery bank is fully charged, when in fact the rest of your bank never gets fully charged. You get the opposite effect if you put a
battery in the bank that has a larger amp hour capacity than the other batteries, the rest of your bank will charge while the larger battery never
gets fully charged. Under charged batteries will sulfate and die prematurely.
Hope I understood your question.
Larry
Off grid, 12-190 watt evergreen solar panels on solar trackers, 2-3648 stacked Outback inverters, 610ah LiFePo4 48v battery bank, FM 60 and MX60
Outback charge controllers, X-240 Outback transformer for 240v from inverters, 6500 watt Kubota diesel generator.
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edm1
Senior Nomad
Posts: 568
Registered: 8-23-2006
Location: Oak Hills, Ca
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AH ratings are true when the batteries are new. For example, when used a 230AH battery is not so anymore after a couple of years. The charging and
dischaging rate become derated by the usage cycles. And so mixing and matching pose a challenge/opportunity, but not impractical. That's all I'm
saying. However, I peprsonally wouldn't mix and match batteries of different physical sizes - they won't fit in their designated boxes :-)
If the battery bank is setup properly such that each battery (or battery series) can be monitored separately as to their charging and discharging
rate, then, with digital meters in a common control bay, it's easy to tell the mixed and matched batteries are doing well or otherwise. It becomes
very elaborate.
[Edited on 9-15-2012 by edm1]
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larryC
Super Nomad
Posts: 1493
Registered: 8-11-2008
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I agree, if you had a battery go bad, in an older bank, and had to replace it, why not replace it with a used one, what's the difference.
Off grid, 12-190 watt evergreen solar panels on solar trackers, 2-3648 stacked Outback inverters, 610ah LiFePo4 48v battery bank, FM 60 and MX60
Outback charge controllers, X-240 Outback transformer for 240v from inverters, 6500 watt Kubota diesel generator.
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captkw
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3850
Registered: 10-19-2010
Location: el charro b.c.s.
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Mood: new dog/missing the old 1
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LARRY !! and batts
Hola,I just type like crap!!!! and I write worse !!
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Hook
Elite Nomad
Posts: 9009
Registered: 3-13-2004
Location: Sonora
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Mood: Inquisitive
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With AGMs, it is VERY important that your charger or charge controller matches the requirements that the battery manufacturer recommends. A bulk or
absorption or float charge too high in voltage can cause the battery to gas. Yes, AGMs CAN release gas
My Lifeline batteries by Concorde dont want voltage over 14.4 during the bulk and absorption phases and no more that 13.4 for the float phase
(assuming a temp of 77 degrees F). Even some relatively new "smart" chargers will float charge at voltages as high as 13.7 or 8. This can dramatically
shorten the life of some AGMs. Be sure your charger/controller is suited to the specs your battery mfgr recommends.
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landyacht318
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Posts: 247
Registered: 7-28-2007
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| Quote: | Originally posted by edm1
The 6 Costco GC2 batteries that I purchased a few months ago wre made by Interstate with the Costco "no question" 12 month replacement warrtanty.
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Interstate does not make batteries, they market batteries manufactured by others.
The 6 volt GC batts were likely made by US battery.
Click HERE and scroll down to I, to see all the manufacturers of Interstate's batteries
Lots of good battery info here:
http://www.batteryfaq.org/
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DavidE
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3814
Registered: 12-1-2003
Location: Baja California México
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Mood: 'At home we demand facts and get them. In Mexico one subsists on rumor and never demands anything.' Charles Flandrau,
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Having an excellent warranty can save a lot of headaches. Several years ago I had to return a Wal-Mart battery because it developed a bad cell. A
carried it into the store and set it into a shopping cart and wheeled it back to the automotive department. The young girl at the registered did not
want to deal with it so she telephoned someone. A young man showed up and grabbed a "Cheese Grater" 100-amp resistive load tester. He connected it to
the battery, toggled the switch for around 5 seconds and pronounced "This battery is not bad".
Cell three had a 1.100 hydrometer reading while the remaining five had 1.260 and above. The battery would not start my car and would not support a 50%
CCA load test for more than 3 seconds. The voltage fell to less than 3.
So I went to my car grabbed my Halliburton case, and returned. Inside is a 500 amp variable load carbon pile battery tester, and a Francis Freas
laboratory grade battery hydrometer. At first the kid was steadfast in his belief that the battery was good. But then he had the good sense to start
questioning me about the equipment and the tests. It took more than an hour to get that battery "adjusted" and I wonder what it would have been like
and what it would be like for people who did not have those resources?
With Costco, it's much simpler. "I don't like this" and money is returned. Interstate battery "distributors" which are the guys who drive around in
those white and green cargo trucks, have better testing equipment and knowledge than many retail stores. I've a feeling that if a person were to run
into an obstacle warrantying a battery because the store did not know how to test it, a written service receipt by a local repair shop would come in
handy.
There is no way to test a VRB, a sealed battery like an AGM or GEL without performing a load test according to Battery Council International
specifications. This means using a variable carbon pile load tester rated in the range of 500 amperes maximum and properly adjusted to 1/2 of CCA
rating.
A Lot To See And A Lot To Do
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captkw
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3850
Registered: 10-19-2010
Location: el charro b.c.s.
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Mood: new dog/missing the old 1
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david, your good
hola,off the top of your head ? M.C.A. OR H.A. AND C.A. AND STATE OF CHARGE AT 12.4 VOLT'S ??? K&T
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larryC
Super Nomad
Posts: 1493
Registered: 8-11-2008
Location: BoLA
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A resting voltage of 12.4 to me would indicate a 12v battery at about 50% SoC.
Mas o menos.
[Edited on 9-16-2012 by larryC]
Off grid, 12-190 watt evergreen solar panels on solar trackers, 2-3648 stacked Outback inverters, 610ah LiFePo4 48v battery bank, FM 60 and MX60
Outback charge controllers, X-240 Outback transformer for 240v from inverters, 6500 watt Kubota diesel generator.
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wiltonh
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Posts: 302
Registered: 2-2-2007
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I have a cheap battery tester and it probably would miss a weak cell. My choice is to install the battery in the car and connect a meter directly to
the posts not the clamps.
The first test is to turn on the head lights and see what the voltage drops to. If it goes below 12 the battery is bad.
The second test is to have the person start the car while watching the voltage. If it drops below about 9 volts then the battery is bad.
Solar batteries are harder to check but using a good digital meter and measuring the voltage across each battery that is in series will give you a
good idea which one is weak. I would normally do this with all the loads turned on in the house or RV.
Getting a warranty for this type of measurement depends on the person you are dealing with.
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DavidE
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3814
Registered: 12-1-2003
Location: Baja California México
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Mood: 'At home we demand facts and get them. In Mexico one subsists on rumor and never demands anything.' Charles Flandrau,
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Voltage versus state of charge is hugely dependent on the type of battery construction (calcium/calcium, 1% antimony, 2.75% antimony, 5% antimony,
pure lead, etc. If that isn't enough, electrolyte temperature skews the equation even further.
There exists an excellent (and I don't use that word lightly) online resource for learning about batteries.
http://batteryuniversity.com/
A Lot To See And A Lot To Do
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larryC
Super Nomad
Posts: 1493
Registered: 8-11-2008
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I never realized how complicated batteries can be till I started looking into them. Just when you think you might understand, someone like Mr. Puekert
sticks his nose into the equation.
David,
Can you refer me to a site where I might learn more about the Puekert factor? I see on a chart that I have that the Trojan T105 has a factor of 1.24,
and most of the high end AGMs have factors down around 1.10 and even as low as 1.05. What does that mean exactly?
Does it refer to a batteries efficiency?
Larry
Off grid, 12-190 watt evergreen solar panels on solar trackers, 2-3648 stacked Outback inverters, 610ah LiFePo4 48v battery bank, FM 60 and MX60
Outback charge controllers, X-240 Outback transformer for 240v from inverters, 6500 watt Kubota diesel generator.
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DavidE
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3814
Registered: 12-1-2003
Location: Baja California México
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Mood: 'At home we demand facts and get them. In Mexico one subsists on rumor and never demands anything.' Charles Flandrau,
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Rather than risk tendonitis and arthritis, I do indeed recommend clicking to get to a website that explains the factorial. In addition I should
recommend you breeze through Charge Efficiency Factor or CEF...
http://www.bdbatteries.com/peukert.php
A Lot To See And A Lot To Do
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wessongroup
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 21152
Registered: 8-9-2009
Location: Mission Viejo
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Mood: Suicide Hot line ... please hold
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WOW ... "variables" do tend to make life difficult ...
OK, now lets start all over ...
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DavidE
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3814
Registered: 12-1-2003
Location: Baja California México
Member Is Offline
Mood: 'At home we demand facts and get them. In Mexico one subsists on rumor and never demands anything.' Charles Flandrau,
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Shopping At Wal-Mart...
Neighbor says by email "Gee if you need anything, let me know and I'll bring it down to you"
So I wrote "Bring me a group 34 battery for my car for ninety five dollars"
He says "OK" and it shows up a week later
I use the battery for 14 months, and am back in the states. This is when the cell failed, so I took it into a Wal-Mart, and got it exchanged.
Guess I should have purchased an LTH battery for a hundred twenty one dollars, that weighed 2/3rds as much, had a twelve month guarantee, and is,
well, sorta hard to warranty north of the border.
A Lot To See And A Lot To Do
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DavidE
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3814
Registered: 12-1-2003
Location: Baja California México
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Mood: 'At home we demand facts and get them. In Mexico one subsists on rumor and never demands anything.' Charles Flandrau,
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Protest? My side is aching from laughing! Ever heard of RAMCAR® battery? Or GNB®, or Deka®?, Crown®? They are all large, and reputable battery
manufacturers separate from the other half dozen OEM units.
I specified that I wasn't going to settle for a Gohner, or an LTH or heaven forbid a Bosch (which costs a hundred forty eight dollars and still have
that 12 mo. warranty). Beggars can't be choosers. The replacement battery has been doing fine. And pray tell, define "Support The Common Worker" if
you would. Are Johnson Controls workers part of a vast conspiracy of white collar elitists?
A Lot To See And A Lot To Do
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edm1
Senior Nomad
Posts: 568
Registered: 8-23-2006
Location: Oak Hills, Ca
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by landyacht318
| Quote: | Originally posted by edm1
The 6 Costco GC2 batteries that I purchased a few months ago wre made by Interstate with the Costco "no question" 12 month replacement warrtanty.
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Interstate does not make batteries, they market batteries manufactured by others.
The 6 volt GC batts were likely made by US battery.
Click HERE and scroll down to I, to see all the manufacturers of Interstate's batteries
Lots of good battery info here:
http://www.batteryfaq.org/ |
Yes, I forgot about that. So they're branded Interstate.
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tripledigitken
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4848
Registered: 9-27-2006
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Just another thread of many that dispells the notion that you retire in Mexico to simplfy your life.
Medical care/insurance
Home ownership
Medical evacuation coverage
Solar power systems
Car registration
etc.
does prove the powerful allure that Mexico has though................
[Edited on 9-17-2012 by tripledigitken]
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wessongroup
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 21152
Registered: 8-9-2009
Location: Mission Viejo
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Mood: Suicide Hot line ... please hold
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Good one Ken... NOB and it still applies .. excluding land or air evac ...
Great thread, as it really makes me "think" ... a lot of factors to consider, if one does it themselves ... which a lot of you have .. it is all good
stuff
Still haven't pulled the trigger ... on a backup solar system ... with an off grid application, within the "city" ... as I didn't like the contract
one enters into SCE and the State of California ... for the grid tie... and the available financing even with the by back of wattage ... call me silly
Have just gotten a couple of small 2,000 watt Yamaha's inverters for now, but long term, still digesting it ALL .. based on many points brought up in
this discussion, JUST on batteries ...
Hell, I'm trying to figure out how to keep back fuel which will stay "good" ... have gotten some STA-BIL ... but, the smell of wood smoldering is
noticable in my room
Would agree on the allure, when one is out there a bit removed from the "rest"
Enjoy it ... 
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DavidE
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3814
Registered: 12-1-2003
Location: Baja California México
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Mood: 'At home we demand facts and get them. In Mexico one subsists on rumor and never demands anything.' Charles Flandrau,
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Heck I'm just havin' a little "diversion" (fun)
A Lot To See And A Lot To Do
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