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MMc
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Registered: 6-29-2011
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Let's face it...licenses or no...too many sport fishermen kill way too many fish.
A unlicensed fisherman is NOT a Sport Fisherman. It is very hard for a person using rod and reel staying with in posted limits to over fish a species.
I hope these guys lose their boat.
"Never teach a pig to sing it frustrates you and annoys the pig" - W.C.Fields
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DianaT
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Paula
......
But foreigners who go over limit do so to take a big cooler of fish home to impress their friends, and probably end up throwing much of it away. It
is not an economic necessity, they could buy the fish for waaaaaayyyyyyyyyy less than it costs to catch it. And if they just enjoy the sport, they
can catch and release......
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And locals do complain about the amount of fish that leave town in coolers. They don't complain about the fish that are caught and eaten for dinner.
It sounds like this guy deserved what happened, but I wonder when the stories will start about how terrible it was that he had his boat "stolen" by
the Mexicans.
Just because so often many laws are not enforced --- laws like riding on the beach and the taking of shell fish are only enforced in certain areas,
and then often much to the surprise of the law breaker.
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Cardon Man
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| Quote: | Originally posted by aguachico
Massive volume? Got numbers for that generalization?
San Diego long range is commercial fishing and they LEGALLY pay for that right to fish the waters allowed by the Mexican government.
I understand the jealousy and contempt for the well equipped million dollar fishing machines from San Diego, but it's not like you can get to the
outter rocks on a panga... |
Geez...very defensive aquachico. Do you own a long ranger?
If you think they are not pounding the hell out of the best wahoo spots you are kidding yourself. That's their mission and they are damn good at it.
And yes, you can access many great rocks in a panga. The guys that are the subject of this thread were doing exactly that. Believe it or not,
Mexican captains don't exactly jump for joy when they see an American long ranger anchored on a rock they just drove two hours to reach in a panga.
The government may get a nice pay day form the long rangers but your typical panga guy sure doesn't. You may read that as an attack on long rang
activities but it's not meant to be. It's just an observation of reality.
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DaliDali
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Well hello
| Quote: | Originally posted by willardguy
| Quote: | Originally posted by chippy
Well what do you expect from a "bayliner" owner?  |
I'd hate to trade this bad boy for a few
fish and the cost of a license! (from BD)
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3 anglers.....14 wahoo..........1 short of 3 limits when 5 is the limit per angler.
The dorado and jurel reported are also well within the limits.
Profepa does not have a legal case for over limits if 14 is accurate.
I wonder now if this photo is really the deal and the taken at the same time as the alleged offense? Or Willardguy just plucked it off the
internet...different time frame?
Which makes one uneasy about the reporting of no fishing license either.
[Edited on 10-20-2013 by DaliDali]
[Edited on 10-20-2013 by DaliDali]
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willardguy
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DaliDali
| Quote: | Originally posted by willardguy
| Quote: | Originally posted by chippy
Well what do you expect from a "bayliner" owner? |
I'd hate to trade this bad boy for a few
fish and the cost of a license! (from BD)
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3 anglers.....14 wahoo..........1 short of 3 limits when 5 is the limit per angler.
The dorado and jurel reported are also well within the limits.
Profepa does not have a legal case for over limits if 14 is accurate.
Which makes one uneasy about the reporting of no fishing license either.
[Edited on 10-20-2013 by DaliDali] |
this is a file photo not from the day of the infraction. its unclear
how many anglers were aboard.
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DaliDali
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| Quote: | Originally posted by willardguy
| Quote: | Originally posted by DaliDali
| Quote: | Originally posted by willardguy
| Quote: | Originally posted by chippy
Well what do you expect from a "bayliner" owner? |
I'd hate to trade this bad boy for a few
fish and the cost of a license! (from BD)
|
3 anglers.....14 wahoo..........1 short of 3 limits when 5 is the limit per angler.
The dorado and jurel reported are also well within the limits.
Profepa does not have a legal case for over limits if 14 is accurate.
Which makes one uneasy about the reporting of no fishing license either.
[Edited on 10-20-2013 by DaliDali] |
this is a file photo not from the day of the infraction. its unclear
how many anglers were aboard. |
Ok got it....thanks.
So you have no photos of the actual time/boat/anglers this violation allegedly occurred?
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captkw
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Mood: new dog/missing the old 1
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for the record
bayliner made some Great boats in the late 70's,,... 20 -28 ft if I recall right..and then made entry level junk,,thanks newbrunswick co. any way Is
there A pic of said boat or updated facts ???.......K&T
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willardguy
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| Quote: | Originally posted by captkw
bayliner made some Great boats in the late 70's,,... 20 -28 ft if I recall right..and then made entry level junk,,thanks newbrunswick co. any way Is
there A pic of said boat or updated facts ???.......K&T |
the boat in question is the one in the photo.
if you look at the logo under "loreto bc sur mexico" thats the "bluewater" logo.not a bayliner.
[Edited on 10-20-2013 by willardguy]
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aguachico
Senior Nomad
Posts: 602
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Location: tijuana
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Mood: logic cannot get thru to the illogical
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Cardon Man
| Quote: | Originally posted by aguachico
Massive volume? Got numbers for that generalization?
San Diego long range is commercial fishing and they LEGALLY pay for that right to fish the waters allowed by the Mexican government.
I understand the jealousy and contempt for the well equipped million dollar fishing machines from San Diego, but it's not like you can get to the
outter rocks on a panga... |
Geez...very defensive aquachico. Do you own a long ranger?
If you think they are not pounding the hell out of the best wahoo spots you are kidding yourself. That's their mission and they are damn good at it.
And yes, you can access many great rocks in a panga. The guys that are the subject of this thread were doing exactly that. Believe it or not,
Mexican captains don't exactly jump for joy when they see an American long ranger anchored on a rock they just drove two hours to reach in a panga.
The government may get a nice pay day form the long rangers but your typical panga guy sure doesn't. You may read that as an attack on long rang
activities but it's not meant to be. It's just an observation of reality. |
I do not have a hard on for the LR fleet. I'm just stating a fact of reality.
Your are fortunate to have such good fishing only two hours by panga.
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shari
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Posts: 13048
Registered: 3-10-2006
Location: bahia asuncion, baja sur
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Mood: there is no reality except the one contained within us "Herman Hesse"
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I know there is resentment here towards the long range boats from San Diego.
There are only 3 sportfishing outfits in Asuncion and a small handful of cooperativa pangas fishing the inshore yellowtail spots and they do not
appreciate those big boats fishing those holes...they catch more in a day than all the local boats put together and they rarely stop in
town....perhaps anchor the night once in awhile but do not contribute at all to the local economy.
When the law that all the crew had to have work permits, that made it a bit more tolerable. But these boats dont have to have the biosphere permits
that we all have to get which is very difficult, expensive and cumbersome.
Locals think to be fair, they should AT LEAST have to have the same permits as we do if they are fishing & diving our local inshore waters.
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captkw
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permits
Hola shari,,what does the bio permits help do? as I used to take folks out the islands off La Paz and now I hear I would have get permits for such
actions...is it just lining a few pocklets or does it buy gas to maintain a patrol boat ?? K&T
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Hook
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I'd be curious to know how much the Mexican permit is that the sportboats have to buy to fish Mexican waters. I expect it is not a small amount;
probably hundreds or thousands of dollars. If Mexico had their environmental/bureaucracy chit together, some of that should make it's way into
whatever fund is for the biosphere.
Anybody have a friend in SAC or the SD fleet that can tell us what those permits cost?
So, the biosphere "tax" has been in place for, what, 2-3 years now? Can you point to physical signs of what the monies are being used for in the
biosphere, Shari? Of course, it's a big biosphere, so it may not be evident in Asuncion.
I can see how a sportboat can have a short term impact on localized areas. But to compare their take to what the commercials are allowed to do is way
off-base, IMO.
I must say, though, that I do applaud how this gringo bust has gotten lots of publicity. Acts like that are encouraged by the meager lack of
enforcement that goes on in Mexico. People fish for years and are never asked for licenses, never checked for limits and begin to feel like it's open
season all the time. It's good to see some high visibility enforcement.
I just hope the word gets out to the locals, too. Ultimately, the subsistence fishermen are the ones that will be hurt the most by the overfishing.
Whether for livelihood or for sport, WRONG IS WRONG.
It's just hard to figure out the definition of wrong in Mexico when WRONG can be turned into RIGHT by greasing a few palms.............
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shari
Select Nomad
Posts: 13048
Registered: 3-10-2006
Location: bahia asuncion, baja sur
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Mood: there is no reality except the one contained within us "Herman Hesse"
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there are several different levels of permisos that charter operators must get and you cant get those unless you pay costly insurance as well. The
permits themselves are not overly expensive but what IS costly are the repeated trips to La Paz, Sta.Rosalia & Guerrero Negro one must make.
There are 3 local charter operators I know of who havent managed to keep up their permits due to the cost and there just isnt enough business to
offset the cost...not even close. We have thought about not sport fishing either because we just cant seem to break even so we may eliminate one of
our pangas...so this is one reason for the resentment to foreign fishing charter boats fishing here.
Hook, there are only 5-6 local pangas fishing yellowtail if that and they get around 100-300 kilos a trip which isnt very much.
The whale watching lagoons have the right idea making it exclusive so people have to use the local pangas and lancheros.
As far as the Biosphere Permits are concerned, lots of hoops to jump through and supposedly some of the $ is for the local bio employee and
projects...although enforcement is very weak and there are blatant abuses everyone knows about but nobody does anything about for political reasons.
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durrelllrobert
Elite Nomad
Posts: 7393
Registered: 11-22-2007
Location: Punta Banda BC
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Mood: thriving in Baja
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No current info but........
| Quote: | Originally posted by Hook
I'd be curious to know how much the Mexican permit is that the sportboats have to buy to fish Mexican waters. I expect it is not a small amount;
probably hundreds or thousands of dollars. If Mexico had their environmental/bureaucracy chit together, some of that should make it's way into
whatever fund is for the biosphere.
Anybody have a friend in SAC or the SD fleet that can tell us what those permits cost?
So, the biosphere "tax" has been in place for, what, 2-3 years now? Can you point to physical signs of what the monies are being used for in the
biosphere, Shari? Of course, it's a big biosphere, so it may not be evident in Asuncion.
I can see how a sportboat can have a short term impact on localized areas. But to compare their take to what the commercials are allowed to do is way
off-base, IMO.
I must say, though, that I do applaud how this gringo bust has gotten lots of publicity. Acts like that are encouraged by the meager lack of
enforcement that goes on in Mexico. People fish for years and are never asked for licenses, never checked for limits and begin to feel like it's open
season all the time. It's good to see some high visibility enforcement.
I just hope the word gets out to the locals, too. Ultimately, the subsistence fishermen are the ones that will be hurt the most by the overfishing.
Whether for livelihood or for sport, WRONG IS WRONG.
It's just hard to figure out the definition of wrong in Mexico when WRONG can be turned into RIGHT by greasing a few palms.............
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"In 2000-2001 the San Diego fleet ran 44 trips from San Diego with an average trip lasting 17 days roundtrip--with only 10 days of actual fishing. The
trips carried a total of 869 passengers who caught 5,852 yellowfin tuna and 4,916 wahoo--an average of 6.7 yellowfin per passenger per trip and an
average of 5.7 wahoo per passenger per trip.
It is estimated that the economic impact of the San Diego fleet to the U.S. economy is $5.5 million annually and the estimated economic impact of the
San Diego fleet to Mexico is $2.9 million per year.
thomas.loc.gov › THOMAS Home › Committee Reports
[Edited on 10-22-2013 by durrelllrobert]
Bob Durrell
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Hook
Elite Nomad
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I wasnt clear, Shari. I was wondering about the cost of the permit for the San Diego sportfishing fleet. Some of THAT money should be making it's way
back to the biosphere IF your local government reps are smart enough to push for it from the "general fishing fund".
But , if the money isnt doing anything and enforcement is being ignored, well.............that's Mexico. Sounds like another "soak the plebs" scheme.
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shari
Select Nomad
Posts: 13048
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Location: bahia asuncion, baja sur
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Mood: there is no reality except the one contained within us "Herman Hesse"
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the LR fleet dont have biosphere permits for here so no money would come out way....I wouldnt say enforcement is ignored completely....lets just say
it's selective enforcement.
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willardguy
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(from BD) the TWO anglers did have active licensees, but not on their person. after presenting them back on dry land they were written the citation,
then they found the over limits.
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Bubba
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| Quote: | Originally posted by MMc
Hate these guys... I'm sure their story will be, how they got screwed in Mexico. F-em. |
Ditto.
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Mula
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Word on the street is that they got a fine.
The boat is still in the guy's yard here.
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sd
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I have some experience with East Cape Baja fishing and San Diego multi day boats.
San Diego - have been aboard the Royal Polaris 5 night, Royal Star 5 night and 1.5 day trip multiple times. Both very professional operations. Can't
be compared to panga fishing, a very different experience. I am not aware of how much the Mexican permits are, but each angler pays a share. Shari, if
they added a cost for biosphere permit I would be fine with that. You have a good point.
East Cape - I fell in love with everything I experience here. Panga fishing is great fun. I have been going several times each year for over 10 years.
ALWAYS the Captains and resort owners and staff have practiced catch and release as much as possible. NO BILLFISH kept is STRONGLY encouraged, limits
are not exceeded and for the last few years the Captains make each angler show their license or we don't go fishing. My favorite Captain knows to
release my fish, and we will at times each keep one fish for dinner, and we keep the gut hooked that probably would not survive as our 2 fish.
If a fisherman over the limit should loose his boat (some comments), should a drinking driver loose his car? Should you loose your Quad for riding on
the beach? Lots of different opinions, but I realize many enjoy the limited enforcement of laws on many levels while in Baja.
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