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DaliDali
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Posts: 1132
Registered: 4-21-2010
Location: BCS
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| Quote: | Originally posted by durrelllrobert
This whole tread belongs in the OT section. As much Baja related as the ship stuck in the ice at Antarctica |
Fact checker says:.....the ENTIRE coastline of BAJA is surrounded by ocean waters subject to inundation according to Al.
The ENTIRE population of BAJA coastal waters, will be directly affected by the impending rise of the sea.
Public service announcement section instead?
[Edited on 1-4-2014 by DaliDali]
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durrelllrobert
Elite Nomad
Posts: 7393
Registered: 11-22-2007
Location: Punta Banda BC
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Mood: thriving in Baja
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Fake Data—How the Hockey Stick Graph Was Contrived
| Quote: | Originally posted by vgabndo
Cypress says:
"Monoloco, Ridicule is a cheap and easy plow, but the facts are there. Just go online and research it. Look for the "hockey stick" graph controversy
pertaining to man made climate change."
Here is the "hockey stick" graph updated to 2012 to the best of the knowledge of the best climate scientists on the planet.
This is from the documentary I linked earlier and from a presentation at an international climate conference.
Those links also show see-it-with-your-own-eyes evidence of the loss of glacial ice in very recent time. It appears that Al Gores predictions of the
melt down are FAR more accurate than the predictions of folks like you who claim that nothing is happening.
The evidence for CO2 levels "hockysticking" is taken from the studies of the atmosphere captured in bubbles in 800,000 year old and younger ice.
Clearly CO2 levels have gone up and down over the last eight tenths of a million years, but now those levels are screaming up toward twice what they
have ever been before.
Many climate change deniers are also Young Earth Creationists, do you also hold a belief in that myth Cypress? That would explain a lot.
Here's a test: True or false, St. Nicolas (Santa Claus) was a never married, non-white, religious fanatic who, by the rules of his order, starved
himself SKINNY as part of his cult practices.
If you answer: True. I hold out some hope for you. (wry smile) |
nov79.com/gbwm/trees.html
The original authors used tree ring measurements as a "proxy" indication of temperature. Usually, tree ring width indicates other things which
influence growth besides temperature, but in this case the trees were located in the Urals of northern Russia, where temperature is assumed to be the
limiting factor of growth. The fact that the line was straight for a thousand years shows that the tree rings being measured were not a suitable
indicator of anything.
Bob Durrell
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BajaRat
Super Nomad
Posts: 1303
Registered: 3-2-2010
Location: SW Four Corners / Bahia Asuncion BCS
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Mood: Ready for some salt water with my Tecate
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| Quote: | Originally posted by durrelllrobert
This whole tread belongs in the OT section. As much Baja related as the ship stuck in the ice at Antarctica |
Unfortunately I am forced to be in the camp that has observed man at the helm during this planets last 150 years of destruction. I'm 100% certain its
not evil Monarch butterflies or pesky Polar bears behind the problem. Greed, perceived inalienable rights, Religious entitlement and corporate profits
are the undeniable culprits. They are driving the propaganda that " we as humans aren't hurting anything " in order to carry on with their abuses.
Many people bring up Al Gore as an excuse because some of his info was debatable, personally I don't give a rats a$$ about him or his political
standing.Debating his stance is easy.
Any one want to debate the impact of clear cutting forests, damming rivers, oil spills, over fishing, gill and long line nets, aquifer depletion and
pollution, oh and yes atmospheric pollution. And now for the cherry on top,
***ashima, potentially the worst disaster the Pacific and this planet have ever seen.
It's a sad state of affairs when humanity cant take responsibility for the hell they have created on earth
Our children's children will curse our generations for our arrogance and lack of compassion for the other inhabitants of our once fair planet. 
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DaliDali
Super Nomad
Posts: 1132
Registered: 4-21-2010
Location: BCS
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| Quote: | Originally posted by BajaRat
| Quote: | Originally posted by durrelllrobert
This whole tread belongs in the OT section. As much Baja related as the ship stuck in the ice at Antarctica |
Unfortunately I am forced to be in the camp that has observed man at the helm during this planets last 150 years of destruction. I'm 100% certain its
not evil Monarch butterflies or pesky Polar bears behind the problem. Greed, perceived inalienable rights, Religious entitlement and corporate profits
are the undeniable culprits. They are driving the propaganda that " we as humans aren't hurting anything " in order to carry on with their abuses.
Many people bring up Al Gore as an excuse because some of his info was debatable, personally I don't give a rats a$$ about him or his political
standing.Debating his stance is easy.
Any one want to debate the impact of clear cutting forests, damming rivers, oil spills, over fishing, gill and long line nets, aquifer depletion and
pollution, oh and yes atmospheric pollution. And now for the cherry on top,
***ashima, potentially the worst disaster the Pacific and this planet have ever seen.
It's a sad state of affairs when humanity cant take responsibility for the hell they have created on earth
Our children's children will curse our generations for our arrogance and lack of compassion for the other inhabitants of our once fair planet. |
Ok let's take responsibility for it all..
Now....what is YOUR proposals to rid the earth of all our man-made scourges?
Really....I want to hear the solutions YOU propose.
And if you can get the USA to go along with those "fix it" proposals, what is YOUR suggestion on how to get other emerging economies worldwide
(China/India/Indonesia/SE Asia/Africa/MEXICO) to sign on?
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Cypress
Elite Nomad
Posts: 7641
Registered: 3-12-2006
Location: on the bayou
Member Is Offline
Mood: undecided
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The Carbon Dioxide in the upper atmosphere is like a brick wall, it supposedly prevents the greenhouse gases from escaping. The wall blocks just as
much if it is one brick thick as it does if it's 20 bricks thick. So we've got to reduce the carbon dioxide in the atmosphere to zero? Does anyone
actually think that is possible?
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durrelllrobert
Elite Nomad
Posts: 7393
Registered: 11-22-2007
Location: Punta Banda BC
Member Is Offline
Mood: thriving in Baja
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OK, I agree it's all man made...
| Quote: | Originally posted by BajaRat
Unfortunately I am forced to be in the camp that has observed man at the helm during this planets last 150 years of destruction. I'm 100% certain its
not evil Monarch butterflies or pesky Polar bears behind the problem. Greed, perceived inalienable rights, Religious entitlement and corporate profits
are the undeniable culprits. They are driving the propaganda that " we as humans aren't hurting anything " in order to carry on with their abuses.
Many people bring up Al Gore as an excuse because some of his info was debatable, personally I don't give a rats a$$ about him or his political
standing.Debating his stance is easy.
Any one want to debate the impact of clear cutting forests, damming rivers, oil spills, over fishing, gill and long line nets, aquifer depletion and
pollution, oh and yes atmospheric pollution. And now for the cherry on top,
***ashima, potentially the worst disaster the Pacific and this planet have ever seen.
It's a sad state of affairs when humanity cant take responsibility for the hell they have created on earth
Our children's children will curse our generations for our arrogance and lack of compassion for the other inhabitants of our once fair planet. |
...from this stand point:
How Much CO2 Does a Human Exhale?
Answer
Using arithmetic and extrapolation, we can determine how much CO2 or carbon dioxide a human exhale per day. An average resting adult excretes 200 ml
per breath. So 200ml multiplied by 12 breaths per minute multiplied by 60 minutes multiplied by 24 nets 3456L per day. This values can be larger or
smaller based on lifestyle, lung capacity, and breaths per minute.
What was world population in 1800?
Answer
635,000,000
and 635 million x 3456 liters of CO2/day = 22.225 billion liters and the oceans and forests together absorbed about 68% of that leaving about 7.112
billion liters of CO2/day released into the atmosphere
What was world population in 2010?
Answer
6.9 billion
and 6.9 billion x 3456 liters of CO2/day = 245.664 trillion liters of CO2/day and the oceans and forests together absorbed about 68% of that leaving
about 93.732 trillion liters of CO2/day released into the atmosphere.
So, if we graph the difference between liters released in 1800 and 2010 (93.732 trillion - 7.112 billion = 86.620 trillion) it also looks like a
hockey stick
[Edited on 1-4-2014 by durrelllrobert]
Bob Durrell
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BajaRat
Super Nomad
Posts: 1303
Registered: 3-2-2010
Location: SW Four Corners / Bahia Asuncion BCS
Member Is Offline
Mood: Ready for some salt water with my Tecate
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DaliDali
| Quote: | Originally posted by BajaRat
| Quote: | Originally posted by durrelllrobert
This whole tread belongs in the OT section. As much Baja related as the ship stuck in the ice at Antarctica |
Unfortunately I am forced to be in the camp that has observed man at the helm during this planets last 150 years of destruction. I'm 100% certain its
not evil Monarch butterflies or pesky Polar bears behind the problem. Greed, perceived inalienable rights, Religious entitlement and corporate profits
are the undeniable culprits. They are driving the propaganda that " we as humans aren't hurting anything " in order to carry on with their abuses.
Many people bring up Al Gore as an excuse because some of his info was debatable, personally I don't give a rats a$$ about him or his political
standing.Debating his stance is easy.
Any one want to debate the impact of clear cutting forests, damming rivers, oil spills, over fishing, gill and long line nets, aquifer depletion and
pollution, oh and yes atmospheric pollution. And now for the cherry on top,
***ashima, potentially the worst disaster the Pacific and this planet have ever seen.
It's a sad state of affairs when humanity cant take responsibility for the hell they have created on earth
Our children's children will curse our generations for our arrogance and lack of compassion for the other inhabitants of our once fair planet. |
Ok let's take responsibility for it all..
Now....what is YOUR proposals to rid the earth of all our man-made scourges?
Really....I want to hear the solutions YOU propose.
And if you can get the USA to go along with those "fix it" proposals, what is YOUR suggestion on how to get other emerging economies worldwide
(China/India/Indonesia/SE Asia/Africa/MEXICO) to sign on? |
Reduce your personal foot print. Boycott practices that do more harm than good. Do not support businesses, corporations, and governments that do not
respect human beings let alone the other inhabitants of this planet.
As all of us can agree upon in some business models it's all about money, not taking in to consideration the overall affects our business practices
have upon this planet is the defining difference.
My parents said after the war nobody was a N-zi. But the fact is they were occupying the Netherlands and stealing my parents food.
You can put lipstick on this pig but my family ain't kissin it.
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monoloco
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6667
Registered: 7-13-2009
Location: Pescadero BCS
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by durrelllrobert
| Quote: | Originally posted by BajaRat
Unfortunately I am forced to be in the camp that has observed man at the helm during this planets last 150 years of destruction. I'm 100% certain its
not evil Monarch butterflies or pesky Polar bears behind the problem. Greed, perceived inalienable rights, Religious entitlement and corporate profits
are the undeniable culprits. They are driving the propaganda that " we as humans aren't hurting anything " in order to carry on with their abuses.
Many people bring up Al Gore as an excuse because some of his info was debatable, personally I don't give a rats a$$ about him or his political
standing.Debating his stance is easy.
Any one want to debate the impact of clear cutting forests, damming rivers, oil spills, over fishing, gill and long line nets, aquifer depletion and
pollution, oh and yes atmospheric pollution. And now for the cherry on top,
***ashima, potentially the worst disaster the Pacific and this planet have ever seen.
It's a sad state of affairs when humanity cant take responsibility for the hell they have created on earth
Our children's children will curse our generations for our arrogance and lack of compassion for the other inhabitants of our once fair planet. |
...from this stand point:
How Much CO2 Does a Human Exhale?
Answer
Using arithmetic and extrapolation, we can determine how much CO2 or carbon dioxide a human exhale per day. An average resting adult excretes 200 ml
per breath. So 200ml multiplied by 12 breaths per minute multiplied by 60 minutes multiplied by 24 nets 3456L per day. This values can be larger or
smaller based on lifestyle, lung capacity, and breaths per minute.
What was world population in 1800?
Answer
635,000,000
and 635 million x 3456 liters of CO2/day = 22.225 billion liters and the oceans and forests together absorbed about 68% of that leaving about 7.112
billion liters of CO2/day released into the atmosphere
What was world population in 2010?
Answer
6.9 billion
and 6.9 billion x 3456 liters of CO2/day = 245.664 trillion liters of CO2/day and the oceans and forests together absorbed about 68% of that leaving
about 93.732 trillion liters of CO2/day released into the atmosphere.
So, if we graph the difference between liters released in 1800 and 2010 (93.732 trillion - 7.112 billion = 86.620 trillion) it also looks like a
hockey stick
[Edited on 1-4-2014 by durrelllrobert] |
All scientific data from observation and experimentation
consistently shows that when a specie's population is no longer in balance with it's environment a die off will occur, there is no reason to believe
that this doesn't apply to humans as well. Therein lies the probable solution, considering the political realities. The only thing in doubt is the
timeline.
"The future ain't what it used to be"
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DaliDali
Super Nomad
Posts: 1132
Registered: 4-21-2010
Location: BCS
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by BajaRat
| Quote: | Originally posted by DaliDali
| Quote: | Originally posted by BajaRat
| Quote: | Originally posted by durrelllrobert
This whole tread belongs in the OT section. As much Baja related as the ship stuck in the ice at Antarctica |
Unfortunately I am forced to be in the camp that has observed man at the helm during this planets last 150 years of destruction. I'm 100% certain its
not evil Monarch butterflies or pesky Polar bears behind the problem. Greed, perceived inalienable rights, Religious entitlement and corporate profits
are the undeniable culprits. They are driving the propaganda that " we as humans aren't hurting anything " in order to carry on with their abuses.
Many people bring up Al Gore as an excuse because some of his info was debatable, personally I don't give a rats a$$ about him or his political
standing.Debating his stance is easy.
Any one want to debate the impact of clear cutting forests, damming rivers, oil spills, over fishing, gill and long line nets, aquifer depletion and
pollution, oh and yes atmospheric pollution. And now for the cherry on top,
***ashima, potentially the worst disaster the Pacific and this planet have ever seen.
It's a sad state of affairs when humanity cant take responsibility for the hell they have created on earth
Our children's children will curse our generations for our arrogance and lack of compassion for the other inhabitants of our once fair planet. |
Ok let's take responsibility for it all..
Now....what is YOUR proposals to rid the earth of all our man-made scourges?
Really....I want to hear the solutions YOU propose.
And if you can get the USA to go along with those "fix it" proposals, what is YOUR suggestion on how to get other emerging economies worldwide
(China/India/Indonesia/SE Asia/Africa/MEXICO) to sign on? |
Reduce your personal foot print. Boycott practices that do more harm than good. Do not support businesses, corporations, and governments that do not
respect human beings let alone the other inhabitants of this planet.
As all of us can agree upon in some business models it's all about money, not taking in to consideration the overall affects our business practices
have upon this planet is the defining difference.
My parents said after the war nobody was a N-zi. But the fact is they were occupying the Netherlands and stealing my parents food.
You can put lipstick on this pig but my family ain't kissin it.
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As a part time or full time resident of Mexico...will you boycott Pemex because they supply diesel fuel to the diesel powered generators in San Carlos
Baja?
Will you also boycott the electricity that courses through your electric lines because they were begotten with diesel fuel?
Are you personally totally "off the grid" and use zero fossil fuels in your daily life?
Will you boycott Mexico because they use practices that are harmful to the people living there? IE diesel fuel and gasoline. Open burning of refuse
and non existent vehicle smog requirements in the majority of the country?
Will you boycott Telmex because the owner happens to be one of the richest men on earth and through his various enterprises, creates more pollutants
than untold numbers of individuals?
Will you boycott any and all tiendas that put your groceries in a plastic bags?
Do you boycott MX highway 1 near Santa Rosalia because of the mining activities there, that put untold pollutants into the Sea? And further take that
to boycotting of copper, in any and all of your household plumbing?
Will you boycott SCT because they allow the use of asphalt paving materials when repairing the roadways?
Do you personally compost all your human waste products so they do not enter the soil and possibly make their way to any water table?
Indeed it is all about the money and you want as much as you can lay your hands on legally. All of us do.
Do we then boycott ourselves and deny ourselves the lifestyle that money can bring us?.....because were greedy, self centered infidels that pollute
the air and the water with our personal daily activities?
So in a perfect USA and a perfect Mexico....pollution free or greatly reduced, to "stave off" the imminent rising of sea level, what do you propose to
tell the emerging nations on how to run their particular countries, based on their own needs, financial constraints and technological expertise?
Since global warming is indeed global....or perceived to be anyway, if North America is "clean", how would that square up with the rest of the world
being "dirty"?
Would not those airborne pollutants make their way across the oceans and spread worldwide?.
Does there exist a invisible "curtain" over North America that would interdict the entrance of air borne pollutants from entering our airspace?
Everyone who is willing and able, should practice environmentally friendly daily activities as best as possible, no doubt.
It's my contention that unless the rest of the world follows along with potentially devastating economical regulations that would be necessary to
significantly reduce or eliminate air borne pollutants, were all blowing smoke up the stack.
Or....earth has a finite life and is doomed to melting off into the tropospheric layer, no matter what humankind does or does not do?
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Osprey
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3694
Registered: 5-23-2004
Location: Baja Ca. Sur
Member Is Offline
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Dali and Dali and Dali, I'm putting your last post on the global thing down as contender for "Least thought out, relevant, germane and properly
crafted reply to any post/thread during the coming year".
I'm sure the standard won't stay -- we have a whole year to just babble on.
Win, lose or draw you can be glad you got in early.
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Skipjack Joe
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8084
Registered: 7-12-2004
Location: Bahia Asuncion
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It is most reasonable to think that the decline of the baitfish is due to overfishing. Much more so than environmental changes.
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Cypress
Elite Nomad
Posts: 7641
Registered: 3-12-2006
Location: on the bayou
Member Is Offline
Mood: undecided
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Skipjack Joe
It is most reasonable to think that the decline of the baitfish is due to overfishing. Much more so than environmental changes.
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Agree!! Over fishing by the commercial net boats.
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Cardon Man
Super Nomad
Posts: 1319
Registered: 8-28-2003
Location: Thetis Bank
Member Is Offline
Mood: !Al Chingaso!
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| Quote: | Originally posted by BajaRat
Greed, perceived inalienable rights, Religious entitlement and corporate profits are the undeniable culprits. They are driving the propaganda that "
we as humans aren't hurting anything " in order to carry on with their abuses.
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That sums it up nicely. The last sentence speaks volumes. It explains why so many people simply don't care. It's also why it's nearly impossible to
raise any concern for the environment without the discussion devolving into a thoughtless shouting match based on the increasingly irrelevant
left/right paradigm of US politics.
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docvandijk
Newbie
Posts: 21
Registered: 9-5-2012
Member Is Offline
Mood: Vitir y dar vitir
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Two groups of thought, both concerned over the depletion of Mexican baitfish stocks, have collided in finger pointing blame rather than promoting any
immediate plan to remedy the immediate situation.
Long term green living may have effects over the long term, but won't prevent further depletion by over-harvesting during a time of shortage of bait
stock. This fishery is heading toward a tipping point.
Cetainly temperature has a lot to do with bait production and harvest off the West Coast but we don't have a thermostat we can set. We can reduce
harvest to maintain a strong brewd stock.
Somehow, I doubt the reporting of Mexican catches have been accurately reported over the years as the US biomass has remained relatively constant over
the same period. The management of Mexico's fisheries is up to Mexico. Unfortunately, the Fisheries Department in Mexico City has a long, long
tradition of corruption and local oversight has never been sufficient or even enabled to take action against illegal fishing.
Mexico does have a new awareness of Ecology, as in Eco-Tourism
Live life like someone left the gate open!
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willardguy
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6451
Registered: 9-19-2009
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you know, its hard to take you serious when you say things like "brewd stock" 
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docvandijk
Newbie
Posts: 21
Registered: 9-5-2012
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Mood: Vitir y dar vitir
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Nothing Much Changes
Hey Ultra-Jerk: This forum has far more resident a-holes than are really necessary. Every item is a source of controversy among you feuding jerks. You
should tie a pork chop aroumd your neck so the dog will pay a little more attention to you. Peace, Love and Tacos my ass. b-tch, moan and demean. Try
to do a little something positive if you have it in you.
In the meantime, I'm finding the door out of this cesspool.
Live life like someone left the gate open!
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willardguy
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6451
Registered: 9-19-2009
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by docvandijk
Hey Ultra-Jerk: This forum has far more resident a-holes than are really necessary. Every item is a source of controversy among you feuding jerks. You
should tie a pork chop aroumd your neck so the dog will pay a little more attention to you. Peace, Love and Tacos my burro. b-tch, moan and demean.
Try to do a little something positive if you have it in you.
In the meantime, I'm finding the door out of this cesspool. |
glad I caught ya on a good day!
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BajaLuna
Senior Nomad
Posts: 581
Registered: 12-5-2012
Location: Pacific Northwest/Bahia Asuncion
Member Is Offline
Mood: groovy
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Our species, as grand as we are, is the only one that destroys it's own environment. I can't always control what corporations do, I can't control what
countries do including my own, I can't control what the naysayers do, I can only do what I can do by lessening my own carbon footprint and being a
good earth steward.
I don't think anyone (except greedy corporations) wants to see forests bulldozed down that sustain us and where people hunt or go to be close to
nature, I don't think anyone wants to see toxins dumped in our oceans where living beings are and where we eat from, I don't think anyone wants to see
the rain forests cut down where their secrets may contain the cures for cancer and other diseases, or villages destroyed because of it, or tampering
with the atmospheric balances, I don't think anyone wants mega corporations to get away with their abuses. We all have to live on this little planet
and future generations too, and in the grand scheme of things, it's about respect for what sustains us and every little bit counts. I can only do my
part, and take pride in at least I'm trying to make the world a better place and hope that I leave the planet better for my grandchildren!
Whether global warming is real or not, we are destroying the planet and we cant expect it to keep sustaining us without some action/change on our
part.
It starts with trying to change one thing in our daily living, just one thing. Seems like a good new year's resolution to me!! This year we hope to
install a rain catch system at our place in the PNW!
The real question is...What one little thing are YOU going to change this year? Heck we can debate global warning till the cows come home, but does
that reallllyyy change anything???
A food and water crisis is on the horizon, everyone needs to wake up!
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Osprey
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3694
Registered: 5-23-2004
Location: Baja Ca. Sur
Member Is Offline
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Groovy Luna, most of the Baja peninsula is either desert or close to it. We are running out of water fast. Do you think the water you plan to catch,
store and use from your new eco plan will help us down here? Will we get more water if you take less from the flow and stock where you live? Will
thirsty people everywhere gain water from your ideas, your investment in the green?
Central America receives 22,000 cubic meters of water per person, per year from rain. Down here we get 7 inches of rain annually or about 450 CM per
person. Do you have a plan for us or is your plan to say "Hey, be careful out there?".
[Edited on 1-6-2014 by Osprey]
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BajaLuna
Senior Nomad
Posts: 581
Registered: 12-5-2012
Location: Pacific Northwest/Bahia Asuncion
Member Is Offline
Mood: groovy
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I don't know if by putting a rain catch system in place it will give anyone more water, but I hope that it does have a trickle down effect!
We did adopt some new practices while at our house in Baja a few weeks ago, knowing that water is an issue there and on the planet in general. And I
hope by doing that it has a trickle down effect too! We limited the time on showers, kept a bucket full of water to rinse sandy feet instead of
running the hose, filled one sink to wash dishes and filled the other one to rinse, collected water in dish pans when we rinsed produce and then used
that to water plants outside, and we only watered the garden in the early morning hours to minimize evaporation. And I'm certainly open to ideas from
others on ways to conserve!
So yeah, thanks for asking....I DO have a plan for doing my part for Baja, to be conscious of what I use! I hope it helps! Every little bit adds up!
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