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4x4abc
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Location: La Paz, BCS
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Quote: Originally posted by rts551  | | One time money did not win out. The citizens fought the Mitsubishi salt industry and won when Mitsubishi wanted the worlds largest salt works between
San Ignacio and Punta Abreojos. It can happen. |
glad you brought it up
it's a shameful example of how little you can trust green activists
the same company that runs the Guerrero Negro salt works wanted to expand operations to the area you mentioned
the citizens were looking forward to new jobs
they had no intention to fight this
but the whale kissers started a campaign to derail that project
lies and misinformation were just the right tools
the dirty, polluting, nature harming big mining operation needed to be stopped
the poor whales needed to be protected
but all the company wanted to do was evaporate water
no harm to mother nature or the whales
but by carefully selecting the word "salt mine", scaring deep holes in the ground were implied. Spilled oil and toxins included. Gigantic machines
muddying the water for the whale babies. An environmental disaster.
of course none of the tree huggers informed themselves or visited the site - they just believed their (religious) leaders
thousands and thousands of activists worldwide, including Hollywood celebs, sent angry mails to Mitsubishi, one of the partners involved
organized fern fondlers worldwide wowed to never buy Mitsubishi products again
now, how can you get the facts out to an angry crowd?
have you ever tried to argue with someone who is very emotional?
someone who doesn't want to be confused by facts?
right - it doesn't work
so, like most traditional Japanese companies, saving face was more important than arguing over evaporating water - they pulled the plug
big victory for the ignorant crowd
no jobs for people who really needed them
please understand me right - I am the #1 fern fondler and tree hugger (not a member of any "save us!" organization)
and I am very religious (not a member of any "save us!" church though)
because I despise lying, manipulating organizations
Harald Pietschmann
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mtgoat666
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Registered: 9-16-2006
Location: San Diego
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Mood: Hot n spicy
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re mitsubishi and japan,...
this a country that continues whaling and does so under a charade of science.
and have you ever seen the movie "The Cove"?
anywho, it's all apples and oranges, but makes for lively discussion, eh?
some of my favorite places are protected wildernesses, protected open lands. i can't think of any former mines that i would want to visit on
vacation.
the world is a better place when we preserve the natural environment.
life will continue on if we have one less mine, one less dam, one fewer road, one less housing development.
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wessongroup
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Mood: Suicide Hot line ... please hold
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Connect the "dots" ... others have ...  and that would be a LOT of people with the responsibility of providing an environment which can support an ever
increasing population of humans ... with little control over same
That one could conclude that the Pope and many others are being "fooled" by science is not a valid statement ... IMHO
Military conflits since the end of WWII might be a candidate ... but, NOT science ...
Science was a reason they® banned above ground testing of nuclear weapons in the 50s ...
Even non-scientists understood the "impact" of ever increasing amounts of radiation being introduced by MAN would have on "living" organisms ...
Hopefully, this can happen again ... as it relates to other "substances" which are introduced into a closed environmental system at higher and higher
levels, minute by minute, hour by hour, day by day ...
After all It's called "Spaceship Earth" for a good reason ..
Maybe they will get Mars nailed down as place to go ... 
[Edited on 4-28-2015 by wessongroup]
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chuckie
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Posts: 6082
Registered: 2-20-2012
Location: Kansas Prairies
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Poor Harald....
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wessongroup
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For some ...
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David K
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Posts: 64749
Registered: 8-30-2002
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Mood: Have Baja Fever
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One of my favorite fun movies... with the "what is Posi-Traction?" part.
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rts551
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6699
Registered: 9-5-2003
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| Quote: Originally posted by 4x4abc | | Quote: Originally posted by rts551 | | One time money did not win out. The citizens fought the Mitsubishi salt industry and won when Mitsubishi wanted the worlds largest salt works between
San Ignacio and Punta Abreojos. It can happen. |
glad you brought it up
it's a shameful example of how little you can trust green activists
the same company that runs the Guerrero Negro salt works wanted to expand operations to the area you mentioned
the citizens were looking forward to new jobs
they had no intention to fight this
but the whale kissers started a campaign to derail that project
lies and misinformation were just the right tools
the dirty, polluting, nature harming big mining operation needed to be stopped
the poor whales needed to be protected
but all the company wanted to do was evaporate water
no harm to mother nature or the whales
but by carefully selecting the word "salt mine", scaring deep holes in the ground were implied. Spilled oil and toxins included. Gigantic machines
muddying the water for the whale babies. An environmental disaster.
of course none of the tree huggers informed themselves or visited the site - they just believed their (religious) leaders
thousands and thousands of activists worldwide, including Hollywood celebs, sent angry mails to Mitsubishi, one of the partners involved
organized fern fondlers worldwide wowed to never buy Mitsubishi products again
now, how can you get the facts out to an angry crowd?
have you ever tried to argue with someone who is very emotional?
someone who doesn't want to be confused by facts?
right - it doesn't work
so, like most traditional Japanese companies, saving face was more important than arguing over evaporating water - they pulled the plug
big victory for the ignorant crowd
no jobs for people who really needed them
please understand me right - I am the #1 fern fondler and tree hugger (not a member of any "save us!" organization)
and I am very religious (not a member of any "save us!" church though)
because I despise lying, manipulating organizations
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You just lost all credibility. I live in Punta Abreojos. The town that is closest to where the salt works would have been. I was there when then
salt works was proposed. The jetty/Marina would ave been in front of my house. One of the leaders of the fight to keep them out was the COOP. The
President of Mexico finally disapproved the project at the instance of local residents. There was very little "green" organization..what little there
was, was world wide. Citizens looking forward to new obs? Give me a break..you know nothing of this town. The majority make better than 50-60K US
dollars a year...some close to 100K. They do not want new jobs. They work hard to protect the jobs they have. The workers would have to have been
brought in... Go to Guerrero Negro take a look at the housing there. Laborers who live in low income housing. The white collar workers live in
Company owned houses that are nice. Guess who are in the majority. Before you pop-off about certain subjects. get your facts straight.
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rts551
Elite Nomad
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Registered: 9-5-2003
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| Quote: Originally posted by David K | Wow Harald, are you my long lost brother?
I think I have the same feelings for nature and the outdoors as you, but cannot stomach the bs fed to the emotional masses who reject facts or their
own eyes when the sea level is pointed out being unchanged over the past 50 years.
There could be ONE item that was anti-whale on the San Ignacio salt flat project, and that was a 5 mile long pier proposed to load the salt directly
onto deep sea freighters. The greenies felt the whales were not capable of swimming around the new pier if it was in their way.
As you know salt from Guerrero Negro is barged out to Cedros Island and then transferred there onto deep sea ships. The funny part is the salt
evaporation and barge port is in Scammon's Lagoon (Ojo de Liebre), and the whales don't mind one bit and continue to grow! Barging is halted during
whale season, but not the evaporating of sea water to make new salt. |
Just the facts David. Your another one that's guessing. read closely at the reason it was disapproved.
http://articles.latimes.com/2000/apr/23/news/mn-22581
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rts551
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6699
Registered: 9-5-2003
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Sorry for the Hijack.
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rts551
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The one in front of my house that was not built? No one knows...It was never built. It was not the reason given by the Mexican Government and ESSO.
Read the material I put up and you will see what the studies that were accomplished said.
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danaeb
Senior Nomad
Posts: 991
Registered: 11-13-2006
Location: San Diego; El Centenario
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Mood: groovy
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| Quote: Originally posted by David K | It's funny (to me) to read these that people can be fooled into thinking that man has the ability to change what Nature is going to do... or to even
know what Nature will do, in the future.
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It's reassuring (to me) to know that people can be convinced that we have the ability to change what we are doing to Nature, now and in the future.
Experience enables you to recognize a mistake every time you repeat it.
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64749
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
Member Is Offline
Mood: Have Baja Fever
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| Quote: Originally posted by rts551 |
The one in front of my house that was not built? No one knows...It was never built. It was not the reason given by the Mexican Government and ESSO.
Read the material I put up and you will see what the studies that were accomplished said. |
I am saying that the 5 mile pier was a big deal from what I read back when this thing was alive... the green peace group said it would interfere with
whale migration. Harald didn't mention that, and I thought it was a big deal breaker. I get the local co-op membership was rich enough and didn't care
to add new jobs for their fellow citizens.
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64749
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
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| Quote: Originally posted by danaeb | | Quote: Originally posted by David K | It's funny (to me) to read these that people can be fooled into thinking that man has the ability to change what Nature is going to do... or to even
know what Nature will do, in the future.
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It's reassuring (to me) to know that people can be convinced that we have the ability to change what we are doing to Nature, now and in the future.
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Exactly! Man can change what man does, but man cannot change what Nature does... oh he can dirty her up a bit, but Mother Nature always wins in the
end!
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rts551
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6699
Registered: 9-5-2003
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| Quote: Originally posted by David K | | Quote: Originally posted by rts551 |
The one in front of my house that was not built? No one knows...It was never built. It was not the reason given by the Mexican Government and ESSO.
Read the material I put up and you will see what the studies that were accomplished said. |
I am saying that the 5 mile pier was a big deal from what I read back when this thing was alive... the green peace group said it would interfere with
whale migration. Harald didn't mention that, and I thought it was a big deal breaker. I get the local co-op membership was rich enough and didn't care
to add new jobs for their fellow citizens. |
You don't get it... What fellow citizens were there to take one of the 200 jobs being created. Before you pop-off, know what you are talking about.
Dumbsheet.. 99% of the towns 900 population supports the coop.
Yes some said the 5 mile pier, along with pumps, brine discharge and other things, would disrupt the whales. he locals were more concerned about the
effect the pier would have on abalone and lobster. The possible pier locations all went over prime reef areas.
Read the material I put up, and it will explain it all to you. Facts remember?
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4x4abc
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4244
Registered: 4-24-2009
Location: La Paz, BCS
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Mood: happy - always
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| Quote: Originally posted by David K | It's funny (to me) to read these that people can be fooled into thinking that man has the ability to change what Nature is going to do... or to even
know what Nature will do, in the future.
We can reverse climate change about as easy as we can stop a volcano from erupting or halt an earthquake from shaking.
Someday maybe man might be mightier, and stop volcanoes, like on Star Trek, but no amount of sapping money from people by government will reverse the
change (and we are not factually certain if it is warming or cooling, as man has not enough data, we are here for short a time, geologically
speaking).
Climate is a condition we adjust to, not change. Solar activity, the earth's orbit location and axis, volcanic eruptions, plate tectonics all play a
part in the change of climate.
Read Chicken Little for a comparison to the medicine shows put on by global alarmists. |
love your clear mind, David!
Harald Pietschmann
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monoloco
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6667
Registered: 7-13-2009
Location: Pescadero BCS
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| Quote: Originally posted by rts551 |
You just lost all credibility. I live in Punta Abreojos. The town that is closest to where the salt works would have been. I was there when then
salt works was proposed. The jetty/Marina would ave been in front of my house. One of the leaders of the fight to keep them out was the COOP. The
President of Mexico finally disapproved the project at the instance of local residents. There was very little "green" organization..what little there
was, was world wide. Citizens looking forward to new obs? Give me a break..you know nothing of this town. The majority make better than 50-60K US
dollars a year...some close to 100K. They do not want new jobs. They work hard to protect the jobs they have. The workers would have to have been
brought in... Go to Guerrero Negro take a look at the housing there. Laborers who live in low income housing. The white collar workers live in
Company owned houses that are nice. Guess who are in the majority. Before you pop-off about certain subjects. get your facts straight.
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Yeah, he also stepped on his pito when he claimed that it is the " Canadian/American yoga/organic crowd" who
are leading the opposition to the mine in the Sierra La Laguna. Nothing can be further from the truth, although most of the foreign residents oppose
the mine, the opposition to it was organized by a MEXICAN group, run by authentic MEXICANS, that has the wide spread support of the local MEXICANS who
largely depend on water from the Sierra La Laguna for their livelihoods, and are not content to let a foreign corporation come in and risk
contaminating it for the promise of a few jobs. Most everyone who does even the most basic research will find that the track record of mining
companies in protecting the environment and cleaning up their messes, is beyond dismal. Canadian companies in particular have a very poor record of
environmental safety, just look up some of the Canadian mining operations in Mexico, Chile, and Peru, it is a litany of environmental abuse and there
is absolutely ZERO reason to believe that they will be anymore careful in BCS.
"The future ain't what it used to be"
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rts551
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6699
Registered: 9-5-2003
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| Quote: Originally posted by David K | Again, we don't communicate because you like to name call. That's okay Ralph, it is what you do. I am not interested in debating a project that long
ago was terminated. Spilled milk as they say...
I simply brought up the pier to let Harald know there was a possible whale harming issue (you know all the facts, etc.). It was a big reason of
protest back then in the green peace stuff, all coast stuff, etc. I was just surprised you didn't know it was an issue... maybe not as big as other
issues, after all? |
Glad you are not interested because your lame shot at the coop was.. well lame.
There were a lot of issues.. Again check it out before mouthing off.
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wessongroup
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Posts: 21152
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"Solar activity, the earth's orbit location and axis, volcanic eruptions, plate tectonics all play a part in the change of climate."
Ya forgot "humans" .... they too are part of the "environment" as are the other factors which were noted above ...
The environment is ... taken as a whole, everything
It is all related ... and things change, it's the nature of evolution
Just that somethings have more immediate and far reaching impact than other factors .... like say an Impact Event
And yes that is one funny movie and the part where she testifies about "cars" is outstanding
Just cut that clip out of the movie ... think I will watch it ... need a yuck or two ...
[Edited on 4-29-2015 by wessongroup]
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4x4abc
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Registered: 4-24-2009
Location: La Paz, BCS
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why is it that we can't "talk" about things - I might be completely wrong with what I know. But throwing eggs at me won't really help a dialog.
Harald Pietschmann
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rts551
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6699
Registered: 9-5-2003
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| Quote: Originally posted by 4x4abc | | why is it that we can't "talk" about things - I might be completely wrong with what I know. But throwing eggs at me won't really help a dialog.
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Because Harald, you did not just talk. You emoted in a way that was sure to bring about a reaction. Look at our choice of words, taking about
throwing eggs. While none of those eggs landed on me (I am not a strict whale kisser or fern fondler), your "facts" were way off base. Had your
oration been less emotional...a toned down response might have ensued.
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