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irenemm
Senior Nomad
Posts: 623
Registered: 7-16-2009
Location: vicente guerrero, baja
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Mood: relaxed
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I guess if it's in the newspaper it's the truth
Right?
Ignorance is not wanting to know the truth.
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4x4abc
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4289
Registered: 4-24-2009
Location: La Paz, BCS
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Mood: happy - always
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if you have insight - why don't you tell us?
we'd rather hear it first hand, than from a newspaper
Harald Pietschmann
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tripledigitken
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4848
Registered: 9-27-2006
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She did earlier in this thread.
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chuckie
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6082
Registered: 2-20-2012
Location: Kansas Prairies
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Yes....She did, and well too.....
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JoeJustJoe
Banned
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Location: Occupied Aztlan
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Instead of reading unbiased investigative reports from Mexican reporters writing for the well respected International news agency "Reuters, lets
instead listen from American ex-pats like Irenemm and others who claims they know what's going down in San Quintin, Ensenada or other parts of Baja,
because they hear all the chisme in their backyard, and the word is, big AG, is treating the farm workers very well, and making 100 pesos a day, is
actually a pretty good wage by Mexican standards, and the farm workers are just ungrateful uppity Mexican peasants who don't know their place.
I'm sorry, and well I welcome all opinions, especially from people from ground zero, but I'm going to take what people say from ground zero, with a
grain of salt, because many times, they have an agenda, or are personally involved. For example, lets say if the farm workers, were hurting business,
you might side with the employers, because you're just upset with the farm workers, hurting your business or something similar. I already heard from
many just upset the highway was blocked by the farm workers, and that alone, make them turn against the farm workers.
So I rather depend of investigate reports, and newspapers articles covering an event from a variety of sources, like the article below:
_________________________________
Feature - Picking strawberries in Mexico for U.S. tables leaves workers asking for more
SAN QUINTIN, MEXICO | BY EDGARD GARRIDO AND LIZBETH DIAZ
Huddled around a single flickering candle in a tiny wood and cardboard shack on scrubland in Mexico's northwest, laborer Genaro Perfecto and his
family prepared to bed down for the night on a bare earth floor.
His 3-year-old daughter asked for an extra blanket to ward off the cold, but they had run out - a measure of their hard-scrabble life spent harvesting
fruit bound for U.S. dining tables.
Since March, thousands of day laborers have blocked roads, staged marches and held meetings with lawmakers to protest the grind of picking
strawberries, raspberries and blackberries in the Baja California peninsula for what they say is as little as $1 an hour.
Perfecto is part of a growing underclass whose frustration over pay and conditions is pressuring companies that supply U.S. markets to make
improvements.
At least one company told Reuters it would reexamine its treatment of workers.
Kevin Murphy, CEO of U.S. fruit company Driscoll's, said his company was reevaluating standards in the wake of the fruit picker protests, and was
going to audit living conditions.
"We're going to go back and look at them again and reevaluate them and put in some improvements," Murphy said.
read the rest:
http://in.reuters.com/article/2015/05/17/mexico-farms-wideri...
[Edited on 5-20-2015 by JoeJustJoe]
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4x4abc
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4289
Registered: 4-24-2009
Location: La Paz, BCS
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so, irenemm, you own/run a restaurant/salon de eventos plus a hotel that only foreigners and well to do Mexicans can afford. Your own employees could
not afford to eat there. How much did you say, you pay them?
Don't get me wrong, I am certain, you do well because of your and your family's hard work. But you are so rich compared to the workers that you can't
relate to their lives. Can't relate to their frustrations.
I bet you are convinced that "they" could do as well as you do, if they only wanted to. If only they would give up drugs, drinking and welfare.
Somehow, I have heard that before. Where was that?
Harald Pietschmann
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Bajaboy
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4375
Registered: 10-9-2003
Location: Bahia Asuncion, BCS, Mexico
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Quote: Originally posted by 4x4abc  |
so, irenemm, you own/run a restaurant/salon de eventos plus a hotel that only foreigners and well to do Mexicans can afford. Your own employees could
not afford to eat there. How much did you say, you pay them?
Don't get me wrong, I am certain, you do well because of your and your family's hard work. But you are so rich compared to the workers that you can't
relate to their lives. Can't relate to their frustrations.
I bet you are convinced that "they" could do as well as you do, if they only wanted to. If only they would give up drugs, drinking and welfare.
Somehow, I have heard that before. Where was that? |
David Kier maybe?
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woody with a view
PITA Nomad
Posts: 15939
Registered: 11-8-2004
Location: Looking at the Coronado Islands
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does the term "unskilled laborer" have no meaning to you? it is unfortunate that most of the world is uneducated and poor, with few marketable skills
other than what their own muscles can provide. been that way since the beginning of time and prolly be that way until the end.
does it suck that they make $1/hour? of course!
is there a solution? not unless the growers open up their books so we can see their outlay for labor versus other costs and profiits. anyone think
that is going to happen? until then, it's all opinion, conjecture and wild a s s guesses.
I'm sure we all agree a CEO making 10,000 times the wage of the pickers is obscene. I'd be happy with 500 times!
edit: CEO
[Edited on 5-20-2015 by woody with a view]
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gnukid
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4411
Registered: 7-2-2006
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There does appear to be an inherent sentiment in some places that those who have worked hard to build wealth should simply give it to those who have
not worked to build wealth. The sentiment justifies theft, corruption, and failure to invest in the long term for many. Not sure where this
programming comes from (Spain?) but it does appear to be endemic to the circumstances of Mexico.
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chuckie
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6082
Registered: 2-20-2012
Location: Kansas Prairies
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Mood: Weary
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I often wonder about that..It seems to be most often voiced by those who are less hard working and successful than others...Denigrate big business,
agriculture, defense contractors as money grubbing polluting wasteful enterprise, while they are consuming their products, eating their food and being
protected by our Military. All the while chanting "give the profits away"....I am not ashamed to say I collect Social Security (my money), a pension
from an Aerospace/Defense contractor (30+years employment) and have income from farming enterprises. Am I going to give it away? Hell no....I earned
it and am gonna continue to enjoy it. I feel for the Mexican farm workers but a bunch of overfed gringos trying to change that is a fart in a
hurricane. Mexican business to be dealt with by Mexicans.....
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BajaLuna
Senior Nomad
Posts: 581
Registered: 12-5-2012
Location: Pacific Northwest/Bahia Asuncion
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Mood: groovy
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But IS it Mexican business, Chuckie? Isn't it gringo companies? I agree with some of what you said Chuckie...but where I think some people go wrong in
their thinking is ...it's not about giving the profits away, it's about paying a living wage to those who are making the profits for the Corps. The
corporate lords would be nobody without the workers, without an army of workers feeding the pyramid at the top. Certainly you can understand that,
seeing how you are retired with a nice pension! Everyone pays in for the greater good!
Liberals are not saying...oh you're so rich you need to share your money and give it away..one of the biggest misconceptions...they need to pay their
fair share of taxes..stop hiding money overseas in tax havens while taking in all the benefits and subsidies of America IE: speaking of giving
away...ummm corporate welfare, and shipping our jobs overseas to invest in slave labor, stop polluting the waters we ALL drink and eat from (someone
needs to stand up for this, thank a liberal, you gotta eat too), buying and controlling our government (lobbyists) and lining the pockets of the
politicians (on both sides)...I could go on and on but you get the point.
So hmmm are you saying here in your post that while you earned your decent wage and defined benefit pension from the aerospace industry, were the
corporations giving money away to you?..or did you earn it?
So you worked your butt off (just like this liberal), earned your pension (just like this liberal), invest your money (just like this liberal), and
these corporations probably didn't just give you these gifts out of the goodness of their hearts, it was probably hard fought by your union brothers
and sisters..but now ya think that anyone who wants a fair shake is a slacker expecting a handout? Alrighty then! My oh my how people forget where
they came from!
Ya know one does not have to be uneducated or a slacker to be a liberal! I'm certainly not, my husband certainly is not, we have a nice life and
earned every bit of it. And it really irks me when people lump everyone into one category. I respect your hard earned life..please respect mine!
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DianaT
Select Nomad
Posts: 10020
Registered: 12-17-2004
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: Originally posted by BajaLuna | But IS it Mexican business, Chuckie? Isn't it gringo companies? I agree with some of what you said Chuckie...but where I think some people go wrong in
their thinking is ...it's not about giving the profits away, it's about paying a living wage to those who are making the profits for the Corps. The
corporate lords would be nobody without the workers, without an army of workers feeding the pyramid at the top. Certainly you can understand that,
seeing how you are retired with a nice pension! Everyone pays in for the greater good!
Liberals are not saying...oh you're so rich you need to share your money and give it away..one of the biggest misconceptions...they need to pay their
fair share of taxes..stop hiding money overseas in tax havens while taking in all the benefits and subsidies of America IE: speaking of giving
away...ummm corporate welfare, and shipping our jobs overseas to invest in slave labor, stop polluting the waters we ALL drink and eat from (someone
needs to stand up for this, thank a liberal, you gotta eat too), buying and controlling our government (lobbyists) and lining the pockets of the
politicians (on both sides)...I could go on and on but you get the point.
So hmmm are you saying here in your post that while you earned your decent wage and defined benefit pension from the aerospace industry, were the
corporations giving money away to you?..or did you earn it?
So you worked your butt off (just like this liberal), earned your pension (just like this liberal), invest your money (just like this liberal), and
these corporations probably didn't just give you these gifts out of the goodness of their hearts, it was probably hard fought by your union brothers
and sisters..but now ya think that anyone who wants a fair shake is a slacker expecting a handout? Alrighty then! My oh my how people forget where
they came from!
Ya know one does not have to be uneducated or a slacker to be a liberal! I'm certainly not, my husband certainly is not, we have a nice life and
earned every bit of it. And it really irks me when people lump everyone into one category. I respect your hard earned life..please respect mine!
|
Very well said! Yes, many of us liberals are real capitalists and have worked hard and invested wisely. And when things were tough, we didn't whine
and blame others, we just went and found more work.
In our case, we had several different careers so our pensions are small and our small Social Security was reduced because on of our small pensions is
a state pension. Shoot, we even have a tiny pension due us in Honduras, but that we will never collect. It is the way WE chose to live so we HAD to
make wise investments in real estate, stocks, etc., and yes, we are comfortable and enjoying our retirement.
Capitalism yes, unfettered capitalism no and even Adam Smith agreed with that.
Not everyone starts on a level playing field and many need a hand up, and anyone who is willing to work, deserves a LIVING wage.
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BajaLuna
Senior Nomad
Posts: 581
Registered: 12-5-2012
Location: Pacific Northwest/Bahia Asuncion
Member Is Offline
Mood: groovy
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I hope the workers get everything they want and rise up until they do! Viva Baja!
I pay almost 6.00 for a basket of berries...and I know it ain't going to the workers!
get up stand up, stand up for your rights!
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wessongroup
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 21152
Registered: 8-9-2009
Location: Mission Viejo
Member Is Offline
Mood: Suicide Hot line ... please hold
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I think a living wage depends on whether ones is giving it … or getting it 
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BajaLuna
Senior Nomad
Posts: 581
Registered: 12-5-2012
Location: Pacific Northwest/Bahia Asuncion
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Mood: groovy
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some of us have few choices but to eat their food, chuckie...if ya haven't noticed lately while in the grocery store...there is only a few companies
feeding us! Do your research on this! Sooo just what do you suggest we eat, get informed on what's really going on in the food corporation world and
then come back and join the REAL conversation!
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BajaLuna
Senior Nomad
Posts: 581
Registered: 12-5-2012
Location: Pacific Northwest/Bahia Asuncion
Member Is Offline
Mood: groovy
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I agree, DianaT
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chuckie
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6082
Registered: 2-20-2012
Location: Kansas Prairies
Member Is Offline
Mood: Weary
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I cant argue, and wont, with much of what you all have to say..In reading what I wrote, I don't see where I used the word Liberal or took a political
position. Neither party, seems to me to do much for the workingman. The problem in San Quintin and surrounds is a Mexican problem, and will be solved
by Mexicans. FACT. As to what I have, I feel I earned it, and am still earning it FACT Having been and still to some degree being a farmer rancher, I
do know a lot about the food business. I can say that the big food producers pretty much screw everyone equally, from the Farmer to the packer. BUT it
is what it is. As a young man, I dumped truckloads of milk into the sewers rather than accept loss prices.FACT What did that get me and the other co
op members? Nada empty pockets and empty trucks. Will this ever change? I don't know....It won't be solved here.....
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wessongroup
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 21152
Registered: 8-9-2009
Location: Mission Viejo
Member Is Offline
Mood: Suicide Hot line ... please hold
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"I can say that the big food producers pretty much screw everyone equally, from the Farmer to the packer."
Dittos 
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4x4abc
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4289
Registered: 4-24-2009
Location: La Paz, BCS
Member Is Offline
Mood: happy - always
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| Quote: Originally posted by woody with a view | does the term "unskilled laborer" have no meaning to you? it is unfortunate that most of the world is uneducated and poor, with few marketable skills
other than what their own muscles can provide. been that way since the beginning of time and prolly be that way until the end.
does it suck that they make $1/hour? of course!
is there a solution? not unless the growers open up their books so we can see their outlay for labor versus other costs and profiits. anyone think
that is going to happen? until then, it's all opinion, conjecture and wild a s s guesses.
I'm sure we all agree a CEO making 10,000 times the wage of the pickers is obscene. I'd be happy with 500 times!
edit: CEO
[Edited on 5-20-2015 by woody with a view] |
it's all at your fingertips - found this in one second. Imagine what you can find in a few minutes. More than you ever wanted to know. http://blueberries.ces.ncsu.edu/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/e...
Harald Pietschmann
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4x4abc
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4289
Registered: 4-24-2009
Location: La Paz, BCS
Member Is Offline
Mood: happy - always
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| Quote: Originally posted by BajaLuna | But IS it Mexican business, Chuckie? Isn't it gringo companies? I agree with some of what you said Chuckie...but where I think some people go wrong in
their thinking is ...it's not about giving the profits away, it's about paying a living wage to those who are making the profits for the Corps. The
corporate lords would be nobody without the workers, without an army of workers feeding the pyramid at the top. Certainly you can understand that,
seeing how you are retired with a nice pension! Everyone pays in for the greater good!
Liberals are not saying...oh you're so rich you need to share your money and give it away..one of the biggest misconceptions...they need to pay their
fair share of taxes..stop hiding money overseas in tax havens while taking in all the benefits and subsidies of America IE: speaking of giving
away...ummm corporate welfare, and shipping our jobs overseas to invest in slave labor, stop polluting the waters we ALL drink and eat from (someone
needs to stand up for this, thank a liberal, you gotta eat too), buying and controlling our government (lobbyists) and lining the pockets of the
politicians (on both sides)...I could go on and on but you get the point.
So hmmm are you saying here in your post that while you earned your decent wage and defined benefit pension from the aerospace industry, were the
corporations giving money away to you?..or did you earn it?
So you worked your butt off (just like this liberal), earned your pension (just like this liberal), invest your money (just like this liberal), and
these corporations probably didn't just give you these gifts out of the goodness of their hearts, it was probably hard fought by your union brothers
and sisters..but now ya think that anyone who wants a fair shake is a slacker expecting a handout? Alrighty then! My oh my how people forget where
they came from!
Ya know one does not have to be uneducated or a slacker to be a liberal! I'm certainly not, my husband certainly is not, we have a nice life and
earned every bit of it. And it really irks me when people lump everyone into one category. I respect your hard earned life..please respect mine!
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how can I "like" your response?
Harald Pietschmann
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