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John Harper
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Quote: Originally posted by SFandH  | | Isn't there a safety consideration in the 120 vs. 240 volt debate? I find 120 volt jolts shocking. I've never experienced a 240 volt jolt and don't
want to. Electricity frightens me. |
It's not the volts, it's the amps that will kill you. I'm sure you've been shocked by a spark plug? Over 50,000 volts, but tiny, tiny amperage.
That's why it doesn't kill you.
John
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SFandH
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| Quote: Originally posted by pacificobob | Folks who are confused regarding Ohm's law often find it helpful to think of a water pipe as an analogy.
Pipe diameter = resistance
Pressure = volts
GPM= amps |
classic way to explain electricity to newbies
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SFandH
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| Quote: Originally posted by John Harper | | Quote: Originally posted by SFandH | | Isn't there a safety consideration in the 120 vs. 240 volt debate? I find 120 volt jolts shocking. I've never experienced a 240 volt jolt and don't
want to. Electricity frightens me. |
It's not the volts, it's the amps that will kill you. I'm sure you've been shocked by a spark plug? Over 50,000 volts, but tiny, tiny amperage.
That's why it doesn't kill you.
John |
I've never quite understood that. Let's say you're fooling around in the circuit breaker box in your house, 110 and 220 are there depending upon the
wires you touch. Wouldn't the 220 be more dangerous?
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pacificobob
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| Quote: Originally posted by SFandH | | Quote: Originally posted by John Harper | | Quote: Originally posted by SFandH | | Isn't there a safety consideration in the 120 vs. 240 volt debate? I find 120 volt jolts shocking. I've never experienced a 240 volt jolt and don't
want to. Electricity frightens me. |
It's not the volts, it's the amps that will kill you. I'm sure you've been shocked by a spark plug? Over 50,000 volts, but tiny, tiny amperage.
That's why it doesn't kill you.
John |
I've never quite understood that. Let's say you're fooling around in the circuit breaker box in your house, 110 and 220 are there depending upon the
wires you touch. Wouldn't the 220 be more dangerous? |
Imagine being in a flooding basement. It not the pressure [voltage]of the entering water that will drown you...its the GPM [AMPS]
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SFandH
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OK, I understand that I think, but it doesn't answer my question.
"Let's say you're fooling around in the circuit breaker box in your house, 110 and 220 are there depending upon the wires you touch. Wouldn't the 220
be more dangerous?"
[Edited on 8-19-2022 by SFandH]
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Bob and Susan
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never work on a "hot box"
your box is normally 110v
220v is 2 breakers of 110v
2 black wires (hot)
1 common
the breaker moves both 110v hot wires off and on at the same time
these go to the 220v appliance
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AKgringo
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| Quote: Originally posted by SFandH |
"Let's say you're fooling around in the circuit breaker box in your house, 110 and 220 are there depending upon the wires you touch. Wouldn't the 220
be more dangerous? |
A 220 circuit in your box would be connected to two 110v terminals.
I had a Norelco shaver that had a selector switch to use either 110 or 220, which is common in many countries.
[Edited on 8-19-2022 by AKgringo]
If you are not living on the edge, you are taking up too much space!
"Could do better if he tried!" Report card comments from most of my grade school teachers. Sadly, still true!
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willardguy
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| Quote: Originally posted by Bob and Susan | never work on a "hot box"
your box is normally 110v
220v is 2 breakers of 110v
2 black wires (hot)
1 common
the breaker moves both 110v hot wires off and on at the same time
these go to the 220v appliance
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bob a 220 circuit doesn't require a neutral (or common as you would say) if you don't know what you're talking about......
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Bob and Susan
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| Quote: Originally posted by willardguy | | bob a 220 circuit doesn't require a neutral (or common as you would say) if you don't know what you're talking about...... |
really???
no common needed?
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willardguy
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the only reason for a neutral would be if you wanted a 110 volt circuit but it it would have zero to do with the 220 volt circuit.
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AKgringo
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That depends on what the circuit is for. If you are installing a 220v outlet, it would need four wires. Two 110 hot leads, one neutral (or common),
ands a ground wire.
Wiring directly to an air conditioner or water heater would use three wires. Two hot leads, and the ground wire would serve as the neutral.
It has been over twenty years since I wired anything, so corrections are welcome if I got it wrong.
If you are not living on the edge, you are taking up too much space!
"Could do better if he tried!" Report card comments from most of my grade school teachers. Sadly, still true!
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John Harper
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That seems wrong, but I'm more familiar with auto and motorcycle systems. Two and three wire stators, but there is always a path to ground.
John
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willardguy
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| Quote: Originally posted by AKgringo |
That depends on what the circuit is for. If you are installing a 220v outlet, it would need four wires. Two 110 hot leads, one neutral (or common),
ands a ground wire.
Wiring directly to an air conditioner or water heater would use three wires. Two hot leads, and the ground wire would serve as the neutral.
It has been over twenty years since I wired anything, so corrections are welcome if I got it wrong. |
wrong, the two hot wires are alternating phase (like a 110 circuit) a ground wire (a low impedance path back to earth ground would not carry current)
and this circuit doesn't require a ground of course not a bad idea!
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AKgringo
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Makes sense! All I know is that the water heater I wired (with direction from an electrician) used a 10/2 with ground, and the outlet in the garage
used 10/3 with ground.
If you are not living on the edge, you are taking up too much space!
"Could do better if he tried!" Report card comments from most of my grade school teachers. Sadly, still true!
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willardguy
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| Quote: Originally posted by AKgringo | | Makes sense! All I know is that the water heater I wired (with direction from an electrician) used a 10/2 with ground, and the outlet in the garage
used 10/3 with ground. |
like I said the only reason for a neutral would be to scab a 110 volt circuit off it.
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RFClark
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Guys,
Every time you double the voltage you cut the current in half and have 1/4 the loss for the same wattage. Loss (E) = Current (I) squared times the
resistance (R)
100W of loss at 12V is 25W of loss at 24V and 6.75W at 48V. At 12V the battery, connectors, cable and inverter get hot. 85-100A for 1,000W at 12V. The
same 1,000W at 48V is 23A.
220/240 AC in the US is 3 wire plus ground. Generally the ground (G) and the neutral (W) are bonded (tied together) the 2 hot wires (B) measure
220-240 ACV between them and each measure 110-120VAC to the neutral (W) wire.
Most US homes built in the last 50 years have 100A or 200A 220-240 electrical service 220-240 delivers twice the power on 3 wires than the old 2 wire
110-120 service.
[Edited on 8-19-2022 by RFClark]
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Bob and Susan
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if you use two 110v to make a 220v circuit you should run a common...
NEVER use a ground for this purpose
sometimes the 220v appliance uses 110v to power part of it
... like a fan or a clock or a display
if you are stringing wire don't forget the white one...
this is how houses burn down later
don't listen to these "armchair internet" electricians
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mtgoat666
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that is the first correct thing you have posted in many months!
p.s. bobby, are you sufficiently self-aware to realize you too are an armchair internet electrician?
Woke!
“...ask not what your country can do for you – ask what you can do for your country.” “My fellow citizens of the world: ask not what America
will do for you, but what together we can do for the freedom of man.”
Prefered gender pronoun: the royal we
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RFClark
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B&S,
2 - 120V circuits won’t make 220V unless they’re on different legs of your electrical service. Not all direct wired 220V appliances and motors
require a white neutral wire, most do require a green ground wire.
Most distribution panels for 220V are designed so that adjacent breakers are on different legs to accommodate double 220 breakers. They also include a
way to bond or separate the neutral and ground as desired.
Personally I always bond the neutral and ground and attach them to at least a 6’ earth ground rod placed in the dampest Place I can find.
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David K
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| Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666 |
that is the first correct thing you have posted in many months!
p.s. bobby, are you sufficiently self-aware to realize you too are an armchair internet electrician? |
Perhaps if you actually visited his Playa Frambes Lighthouse Resort, you would appreciate Bob's opinion just a bit? It is truly a magnificent
mini-resort he built from nothing... I would really enjoy staying there, again!
Seven photos from our time there in 2009 are on this page: https://vivabaja.com/p709/
I returned in 2019 to show it off to Cameron Steele and his Trail of Missions Recon TV show team:
Bob and David K (note camera crew is in the lighthouse)
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