| Pages:
1
2
3
4 |
Dave
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6005
Registered: 11-5-2002
Member Is Offline
|
|
| Quote: | Originally posted by Bruce R Leech
there are developers in the Mulege aria that have first right of refusal clauses in there contracts. and they are legal. |
Have any ever been challenged?
Possession/ownership in Mexico is sancrosanct. Once you have bought and paid for property you can do with and/or sell to whomever, whenever the hell
you want. C&Rs are basically nonenforceable, especially for Nationals.
Just wait until it becomes a problem with a Mexican owner. He'll sick the legal system on you and you'll be in deep CaCa.
|
|
|
Bruce R Leech
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6796
Registered: 9-20-2004
Location: Ensenada formerly Mulege
Member Is Offline
Mood: A lot cooler than Mulege
|
|
| Quote: | Originally posted by Dave
| Quote: | Originally posted by Bruce R Leech
there are developers in the Mulege aria that have first right of refusal clauses in there contracts. and they are legal. |
Have any ever been challenged?
Possession/ownership in Mexico is sancrosanct. Once you have bought and paid for property you can do with and/or sell to whomever, whenever the hell
you want. C&Rs are basically nonenforceable, especially for Nationals.
Just wait until it becomes a problem with a Mexican owner. He'll sick the legal system on you and you'll be in deep CaCa. |
at lest 6 times that I know of
Bruce R Leech
Ensenada
 |
|
|
Dave
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6005
Registered: 11-5-2002
Member Is Offline
|
|
| Quote: | Originally posted by Bruce R Leech
at lest 6 times that I know of |
Then the owners must have been gringos, the developers Mexican or these were homes built on leased land and the landowner had first right.
Our retail center is in the process of forming an owners association. Several attorneys have told us that all regs will essentially be voluntary. Even
collecting dues will be virtually impossible.
|
|
|
Phil S
Super Nomad
Posts: 1205
Registered: 10-28-2003
Member Is Offline
Mood: After 34 years. Still in love w/ my wife
|
|
Dave. Your corp is developing a "retail center". Is that in Rosarito? What part of town? Will it be gringo oriented, or Mexicano oriented? Will
there be some shops wife & I will want to stop off at on the way to Loreto? Give us the "scoop". How soon will it be open? How large. How many
shops, etc. Always looking for new places to shop in Baja. Will you be managing or will you be operating any of the businesses?
|
|
|
wilderone
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3821
Registered: 2-9-2004
Member Is Offline
|
|
Re: the Foundation. Subject to the terms of the LB Co's master development agreement with FONATUR, the formation of the Foundation was a condition
precedent to the closing on the purchase of land of the LB project. The 1% in perpetuity is part of a trust agreement with the Mexican government and
also governs ALL RE-SALES within the development. The purpose of the Foundation as established in the Bylaws are to establish a fund for education of
the inhabitants of Loreto, drive sustainable development in So. Baja CA, improve labor conditions for inhabitants of Loreto, to collaborate in the
care and protection of the environment, promote sports activities, improve medical services for inhabitants of Loreto; provide economic resources to
third persons toward fulfilling objectives of the Foundation; and funds for acquiring assets to carry out the objectives.
The Foundation will not pursue economic profit, or commercial speculation as a primary purpose, but it will have to provide for its own subsistence
and financial management.
The members of the board of trustees are: Butterfield - Executive Director; James Elder (brings ecotourism knowledge and experience) and Mark
Spalding. They want to add two more board members, and were considering two Mexicans.
During start up phase, The Ocean Foundation (Wash DC) has agreed to receive the 1% sales and distribute it in accord with purposes of the bylaws. The
fee for this service is 4%.
In exchange, The Ocean Foundation provides as tax reporting, check writing, and investment services. We will continue to use this service until the
Foundation reaches $3 million in asets. At that time, it will become financial preferable to establish our own infrastructure.
Spalding is a part-time staff person. Together with The Ocean Foundation, he handles all aspects of foundation management. Spalding has visited
Loreto twice during summer of 2004, and is spread pretty thin.
The Foundation is in the process of becoming the concession holder to manage the Zofemat, the 20-meter strip of land upland from the high water mark,
which will continue to be owned by the federal government. We believe that this stirp wil be best protected for the longer term if the Foundation
rather than the developer controls it.
Form your own opinions, but LB Co. will use the Foundation to further its image. As specifically stated, they will prioritize community needs by
applying a set of filters: Cost, timing, external image: influence on community view of the Foundaiton; and External Image: influence on community
view of LB Co.; promotes Foundation independence and limits bad outcomes by FONATUR, including Escalera Nautica.
And yes, you could characterize me as a "negative poster" and, yes, I will always be negative about the LB project, for one reason, and that reason
will never change: the bay has been destroyed; a very special place in Baja California has been destroyed. Yeah, people always get excited about
money and I'm sure there is no lack of promises within the town.
|
|
|
capt. mike
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8085
Registered: 11-26-2002
Location: Bat Cave
Member Is Offline
Mood: Sling time!
|
|
1st right of refusals.....very common in USA
yes, we put them in all of our contracts, especially initial lot sales - reason is...as the values on dirt go up while you're selling out, if anyone
who got in on the ground floor wants out, he has to "sell" it back to us and by contract for no more than he paid - i.e. no speculation. So then we
take it back and resell it at the current value, assuming increases.
case in point - the lots we have at the new airpark are closing at $90K - they sold initially at $30K pre sales promo 3 years ago - i love taking them
back on occaision and getting the extra $60K!!
but as for mexico and RE and laws.....i don't know Dick Diddly except anyone who dumps more cash into a foreign property than he can afford to walk
away from needs his/her head examined....IMHO - and mex attys are not always the answer.
formerly Ordained in Rev. Ewing\'s Church by Mail - busted on tax fraud.......
Now joined L. Ron Hoover\'s church of Appliantology
\"Remember there is a big difference between kneeling down and bending over....\"
www.facebook.com/michael.l.goering |
|
|
Darlenet8
Newbie
Posts: 1
Registered: 4-21-2005
Member Is Offline
|
|
Loreto Bay
It's been interesting to read Loreto Bay posts and I'm not surprised with what I read. I have joined Nomads and opened up my identity to anyone who
cares to know -
My name is Darlene and I work for Loreto Bay - I have since the project began and have worked with one of the principals, David Butterfield for 20
years.
Scepticism and cynicism is to be expected - the development community has earned it! I'm not going to present all the details of the project here but
simply will comment on the recent posts regarding the donation of $1 million and what that's all about. I'll surf in from time to time to respond to
questions/comments/rumors etc. I'm not here to do an ad - simply ensure that facts are in play in the forming of opinions ....
The Loreto Foundation was founded so that civic, health, educational and environmental projects could be undertaken to benefit the town and the
region. It is true that 1% of sales (new sales and all re-sales) will be directed to the Foundation. Funds flow to the Foundation as funds flow to
the company - when sales close.
The Foundation is headed up by Dr. Mark Spalding (anyone who is interested can google him) who has assembled a varied, tri-national board including
locals. Clearly the Foundation is in its formative stages - local groups and citizens will be able to request assistance for projects that fall into
the above categories - the requests will be reviewed by the Board. The first request was from Grupo Tortuguero so the Foundation was one of the
conferences sponsors.
I am sure most are aware of the Baja land rush (sorry - started before we came) ... its a big enough phenomenon that NY TImes has had it front page
twice. I guess the question I have is ... given that lots of "boomers" are moving here (as full or part-time residents or as speculators), how
should that growth be handled? Simply locking the gates doesn't work so, in my humble estimation, its about planning properly .... locally and
regionally. Thoughts??
|
|
|
jrbaja
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4863
Registered: 2-2-2003
Member Is Offline
|
|
Well Darlene, it sounds good when you put it like that but, what is really happening is a lot of foreigners making a lot of money while destroying a
once peaceful, drug free and civilized people.
Are you *************** with them as well as supplying short term jobs? Do they have medical coverage prior to your profits being made? Or is this
just another scheme by developers and those who work for them?
[Edited on 4-21-2005 by BajaNomad]
|
|
|
latitude26n
Banned
Posts: 124
Registered: 8-7-2004
Member Is Offline
|
|
Across the way
Mr. latitude just got off the phone with the mechanic- another $4000 bucks goes in to our truck. That damn dirt road.
Just across the peninsula from Loreto, our area is off the radar comparatively but is still developing much faster than anyone would like. We've
recently moved a little farther outside of town to escape some of the problems and inconveniences that came with being in the midst of the original,
UNplanned gringo enclave.
So what did we do, we actually just repeated the M.O. - only this time we're in the new fancy-shmancy locale ($$) and the area has No services, a
funky road and no real thought put in to planning. But the property's more spacious and we weren't ready to give up on the whole area yet, so we feel
like we've bought a few more years of enjoyment.
Neighborhood planning is not such a bad thing, but the shear size (among other things) of the Loreto project makes me queasy. Man- thank goodness
for that dirt road on our side.
|
|
|
Cincodemayo
Senior Nomad
Posts: 725
Registered: 3-7-2005
Location: Pacific NW
Member Is Offline
|
|
Wilderone..
How has the bay been destroyed? If you are talking about depletion you can blame the Japanese for overfishing with all their long boats years ago
before the Mexican gov designated it as a marine preserve.
Fonatur is the one who contacted Butterfield and Grogan in the beginning.
I look at the positives as a planned community instead of haphazard buildings and hotels everywhere like Cabo but that's my opinion. I'm not here to
get into a peeing match just to voice the positives I see with this project. I had many questions about the project when my wife and I went down in
March and they were all answered very well....as many others had the same concerns they too were fine with all the scenarios that came up during the
Q&A times.
I was in Cabo when there were just the Finestera, Solmar, Twin Dolphins and Hotel Cabo and was amazed the last time I went down there with all the
unplanned sprawl. At least this development is PLANNED. It will be developed no matter what and that's the jist of it. After meeting with the BIG guys
and going into town you could see the genuine feelings they have for the townspeople and I consider myself a good judge of character
and the same for a good friend of mine who went down on the same trip and he owns a Fortune 500 company in my city. He had the same feelings for the
development and the people and he bought 3 doors down. He loves the town and the people in Loreto also. That's my nickle on the subject.
Don\'t get mad...
Get EVEN.
|
|
|
Cincodemayo
Senior Nomad
Posts: 725
Registered: 3-7-2005
Location: Pacific NW
Member Is Offline
|
|
Come on now jr...time to debate maturely.
Don\'t get mad...
Get EVEN.
|
|
|
Skeet/Loreto
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4709
Registered: 9-2-2003
Member Is Offline
|
|
JR
Loreto has not been a Drug Free Village for many years starting with TV and the Road being opened in1973!
Question for Darlene;
Water? Facts, not proposals and "WE ARE GOING TO DO THIS"
New Medical Facilites? When?
Schools for the Children?
As you can read you know that I am an old Timer from Loreto.
I think your Project will in the end be good for the people of Loreto. If you can sell People the Lots and Houses and they Trust you enough to beleive
they will have enough Water then , So be It!!
It is too late for Loreto to be the same as 30 years ago!Try to keep it from becoming a Drug Infested,party town like Cabo Please!!
The fishing is still very good around Loreto and will remain so for many years.
I will personally Challenge anyone to go out and put a Shrimp trap down to 600 feet and come back and tell me there are no Shrimp in the BAy!!!!!!{
Use a couple of cans of Cat Food}.
There is no stopping progress in Loreto. No matter how many new people come in I will always have good memories of Loreto and its People.
Skeet/Loreto
|
|
|
Cincodemayo
Senior Nomad
Posts: 725
Registered: 3-7-2005
Location: Pacific NW
Member Is Offline
|
|
Skeet
Couldn't agree with ya more.
Don\'t get mad...
Get EVEN.
|
|
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
Posts: N/A
Registered: N/A
Member Is Offline
|
|
"in my humble estimation, its about planning properly .... locally and regionally. Thoughts??"
Is it true Darlene?
Somebody in Loreto told me that you start houses without finished plans, even worst, that you start houses with out construction permits, is that the
way you plan properly?
Now, who are the "locals" in the so call Loreto Foundation?
And if you are acepting request to use the 1.35 million dollars here are some:
1.- Build a bigger hospital in Loreto, just enought to handle all the workers that will come from the mainland to work in your development.
2.- Build a decent landfill for all the dirt that your construction is going to make.
3.- Make a training school for construction workers, so that you really build the quality houses that you advertise.
4.- Acept authentic locals in your foundation, so that the monies are really spended in local needs.
Posted by:
An Authentic Dark Brown Loreto Local :moon:
|
|
|
Phil S
Super Nomad
Posts: 1205
Registered: 10-28-2003
Member Is Offline
Mood: After 34 years. Still in love w/ my wife
|
|
Anon. Ouch!!!! Am I reading your post with "fire on tongue"? With your signature of being a 'local Loretano', how about just driving those four
miles out to Nopolo and meet Darlene personally, and ask her those same questions to her face?????? Or do you have a reason for being "a local who
needs to be 'hidden' behind anon? I think your questions are great, but kind of wonder what you meant by the "dirt" they are moving. Can you explain
that. And the comment of "someone said" they were building without finish plans, nor building permits. It's so easy to say, "some one said". Makes
me think that perhaps your one of the Cafe Ole regulars that dream up these 'schemes' to challenge anyone new whose come to town to share in 'your'
shangrila'. Consider it, Anon. You'll like Darlene. First time I met her, when I had a lot of questions also just like you do, and it was instant
like. She's personable, bright, quick, and I can see a little 'fiesty' there too. But in a nice way. So far from what I've seen from "day one" it
certainly looks like they have been doing something right.
|
|
|
Skeet/Loreto
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4709
Registered: 9-2-2003
Member Is Offline
|
|
Phil
I got the same read off of the Local Anon.
Must say through that "Personality" is what makes for people buying property when they feel good about the Sales Person.
Phil, you and I both know that the people behind the Money will not put up that kind of money without having the proper connections.
this is not like the French who tried to develop Pt. Escondido, spent 6 million and then got booted out.
People are not concerned about Plans, water , etc they just want to Buy, Buy , Buy and some will know that they are taking a chance, but really do
not Care.
I can forsee Loreto Bay will be Huge and will be sucessful if they can find the Water. I see a community with lots of Eco-Nuts Flavor, Kyackers, Whale
Watchers, and "Sierra Club" type of People{Just the kind I would not live next door to for a Million Dollars a Year}
It appears from the wording that is the direction they want to Go.
Wait until a group of Mexicanos have a party on the Beach nearby and decide to take a Pee!! The Eco-nuts will declare a Disaster!!
The Loreto People can take care of themselves.
Skeet/Loreto
|
|
|
friend of baja
Junior Nomad
Posts: 29
Registered: 3-8-2005
Member Is Offline
|
|
| Quote: | Originally posted by Anonymous
"in my humble estimation, its about planning properly .... locally and regionally. Thoughts??"
Is it true Darlene?
Somebody in Loreto told me that you start houses without finished plans, even worst, that you start houses with out construction permits, is that the
way you plan properly?
An Authentic Dark Brown Loreto Local :moon: |
You can rest assured that no homes are started without completed plans, including design specifications and optional upgrades signed off by the
homeowner, also no homes are started without all the proper permits.
Darlene Tait epitomizies the character and integrity of all the key team members at Loreto Bay. Do yourself and the town of Loreto a favor and visit
the site and ask questions. If after that you still have the same opinion, well, to each his own.
[Edited on 4-23-2005 by friend of baja]
|
|
|
Skeet/Loreto
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4709
Registered: 9-2-2003
Member Is Offline
|
|
Friend of Baja
I would add to a visit of Loreto, asking questions to the local people who are in charge of the City of Loreto.
What is there support?
I was there when the first of the Units were started and after several inspections both Day and Night I concluded that that structure was being very
well built!
Someone realizes that the "Rolling" Type Earthquakes can do damage, also that the South Whip storms can sometimes reach 85 -100 MPH like they did
several years ago when the Wind blew down the Bridge at the Golf course.
I say Give these people the Benefit of the Doubt and let them show everyone "What they can Do, after all it is "Just Money".
Knowing the People of Loreto, if they do not do what they Say, the People will run them out of Loreto.
Skeet/Loreto
|
|
|
JESSE
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3370
Registered: 11-5-2002
Member Is Offline
|
|
| Quote: | Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto
Knowing the People of Loreto, if they do not do what they Say, the People will run them out of Loreto.
Skeet/Loreto |
I hope so Skeet.
|
|
|
Sharksbaja
Elite Nomad
Posts: 5814
Registered: 9-7-2004
Location: Newport, Mulege B.C.S.
Member Is Offline
|
|
Loretos' future...
really is the main focus of all these threads. Although I feel very strongly about the project I also have that burning feeling you get when an
avalanch starts.... you try like hell to get out of the way and you hope it doesn't do much damage. Like an avalanch, development starts with a crack
in the snow. This project is that crack. It is our suspicion of corporate devlopment that keeps us squawking. The others like to follow suit. I firmly
believe that the project will be all it says it will. This is not my main concern. The Canadians know what they are doing from a constuction
standpoint, but they cannot control the avalanch once it starts to move. The people of Loreto should watch with keen eyes on tomorrow.
DON\'T SQUINT! Give yer eyes a break!
Try holding down [control] key and toggle the [+ and -] keys
Viva Mulege!
Nomads\' Sunsets
|
|
|
| Pages:
1
2
3
4 |
![[*]](images/xmbforum/default_icon.gif){kind=icon}
