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MrBillM
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Hmm ? Let's See.
Because it's the (Federal) law !
Cuban refugees are automatically deemed political refugees if they make it here. They do live in a Communist Dictatorship, after all.
Mexicans (rightly) are considered Economic refugees and are not eligible for asylum.
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TMW
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If a Cuban lived a while in Mexico, maybe a year or two (let's say he was there on a sports thing and abandoned the team) and then crossed into the
U.S. illegally would he still be given legal rights?
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DENNIS
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Because the U.S government will do anything to pee-off Castro. They dont want to pee-off Fox because he has been such a staunch supporter of the
U.S., especially on the Gulf War issue.
By the way ---- Did everybody see the list of cabinet nomonees for the Calderon cabinet? Most all, educated in the United States.
I guess we arn't all that bad after all.
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TMW
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"[Did everybody see the list of cabinet nomonees for the Calderon cabinet? Most all, educated in the United States.
I guess we arn't all that bad after all.]"
The more well to do in TJ send their kids to school in the U.S. many if not most to private school. Many live in Chula Vista.
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DENNIS
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Or La Jolla ------- Or better
The point is, they return to Mexico and adopt the PC stance that the U.S. is the devil and can barely be tolerated.
The U.S. is used by Mexico. The poor use us and the rich use us. When they are done with us, we are the enemy.
So, if you think I'm wrong, just keep your hands around your ankles.
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mtgoat666
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| Quote: | Originally posted by MrBillM
Because it's the (Federal) law !
Cuban refugees are automatically deemed political refugees if they make it here. They do live in a Communist Dictatorship, after all.
Mexicans (rightly) are considered Economic refugees and are not eligible for asylum. |
Whether you are born on one side of a border or another is possibly random, in many peoples eyes. I can't fault anybody for trying their best to jump
a border to better their life. All this talk about "but it's illegal!!!!" is silly B.S. Hey, if they got the gumption to come here, I aint going to
complain or try to kick them out. I suspect they contribute more to the economy than they cost our economy. Personally, I find immigrants harder
working people and generally more morally upright than the lard-asses that have been here for several generations.. I think we should start kicking
out the lard-asses that have been here too long and no longer work as hard as the immigrants.
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k1w1
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mtgoat666
give it up bud, nobody's listening. All these rednecks have grabbed the bottle of hand lotion and are watching O'Reilly on Fox!
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Barry A.
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mtgoat6666 and K1w1--------
I am speechless (almost) !!!!! This seems so simple------why do you not get it???
I am not "blaming" the Mexicans for trying to "better their life"------I am simply saying that the "rule of law" is the glue that holds Democracies,
and civilizations, together, and those that break the law are at risk, and they KNOW it, and must except the consequences of their actions.
All the rest of the arguments are just so much fog-----"rule of law" is the issue.
That's it!!!!!!
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DENNIS
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Barry ---
That's how I see it as well. Laws are laws.......not just suggestions.
kiwi --------
By the way......... O"Reilly is an A-Hole. I form my own opinions.
I know what you're thinking so dont bother responding.
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Barry A.
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Hehhhhh??????
O'Reilly is looking out for us "Red Necks", and the other 150 million in this country.
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DENNIS
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That's OK Barry........ He's your hero, not mine. I'm independent in my political beliefs and cant make room for modern day N-zis. Although he and I
would agree on some things, as we do, I will always agree with your choice of friends.
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Skeet/Loreto
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Dennis- Dennis; You finally gave away your Grand Secrets:
"I Know what you are thinking". Dennis You do Not, I repeat you never know what the other Person is thinking!!
That is a Grand Fault in your EGO.
I too have Opinions based on my "Life Experiences" instead of being influencied by a "Ward Churchill" type Liberal College Professor.
But that is the way of some People, they only know how to call People Names, Blame everyone else for their own Shortcomings---Never being Hungrey,
Cold, having thier Mamma give them everything they Want instead of being Disciplined with a good Wack on the Bottom.
Instant Gratification
Drugs
Gameboys
Rap Music
Nudity
Profanity
Booze
Skeet
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Cypress
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mtgoat666!!! That's exactly the way I feel about the issue. 
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Cypress
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except for the law breaking aspect of it
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oxxo
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Barry A.
I am simply saying that the "rule of law" is the glue that holds Democracies, and civilizations, together, |
So many of the threads on Baja Nomads are dedicated to "how do you get around Mexican laws." How do I circumvent customs at the border, how to use
VHF for land communications, how to get out of paying a speeding ticket when you admit you were speeding, etc.
If "laws are laws” isn’t every law just as important as another? Or do we get to decide, on an individual basis, which laws are important and which
aren't?
Perhaps an illegal Mexican immigrant just feels that U.S. immigration laws are just not important to him, just like some expatriates sneaking some
household goods across the border into Mexico.
Just not the same you say? Who exactly gets to decide what law is important and what law is not? Common sense dictates what is important you say?
Whose common sense? Too many Americans have the "holier than thou" syndrome thinking they get to decide what is important for everyone else.
But then there is the other side of the coin.
A friend a mine, who is a physician, relates this story. An illegal immigrant from Mexicali walked into an acute care clinic in California with a
very serious, life threatening illness that had been diagnosed (but untreated) in Mexico months earlier. Two weeks later he was released from the
clinic with a $100,000 bill at the clinic and additional charges from 3 attending physicians (one my friend). The patient paid nothing, he had "no
money" and of course no insurance. He received a "free" service in the U.S. that he would have had to pay something for in Mexico. My friend was not
concerned about his fee; he said he gives free services all the time to the indigent, both legal and illegal. His concern was about the clinic. The
clinic had a $500,000 capital improvements budget for that year. The free service to this patient came out of the clinics capital improvements budget
and reduced it by 20%. My friend said that 5 years ago there were 11 acute care clinics in our area. Today there are just 2 and they are in danger
of closing because of lack of funds.
Illegal immigration is a very complicated issue, one that will not be solved or resolved on this Board. However, let us all be careful about being
hypocrites.
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DENNIS
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Oxxo -----
You make very good points and I agree, hypocrisy is evil. Did your friend, the doctor, loose money for his altruistic efforts at the clinic? I hope
not.
Would he continue to treat the needy poor if he had? I would hope so but, he probably wouldn't do that for long.
Back to the point. Is it hypocritical to expext our laws to be respected? Should I declare Grand-Theft Auto laws to be invalid because I cant afford
to buy a new car?
Your allusion to the border game is right-on. Some like to see it as an effort to pay fewer taxes. In the U.S., that is an honorable endeavor. Im
not refering to tax evasion, Im refering to what one would pay a good tax attorney to do. Many of the Mexican customs inspectors have their price as
well. All in all, I couldn't use the Mexican port of entry as a showpiece of high moral behavior. It's just the nature of the beast and, personally,
I dont believe it will ever change.
Anyway, your points are well taken.
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Barry A.
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Oxxo-----
Excellent post, but it skirts the issue, I believe. So here I go again: If you break the law, any law, then you should expect to have to pay the
penalty. Everytime we break a law (any law!), and are ALLOWED to get away with it with no consequences, the principal foundations of civilization are
erroded a little, and we all suffer a little. The more important the "law", the more suffering will occur when it is broken.
That is my sincere belief.
All the arguments that refute or mitigate this principal, to me are just avoiding (side stepping?) the inescapable truth, and making life far more
complicated than necessary.
Making things complicated is the main reason that "issues" are not resolved. There is often room for considering the "complications" of life, but not
when it renders a particular "issue" unresolvable.
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MrBillM
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Gored Ox
B.S.
ALL laws are not equal and anyone who feels differently has a severe cognitive disability. IF observing ALL laws had equal value, the penalties for
not doing so would be equal. However, nobody is proposing the DEATH Penalty for illegal use of a Marine VHF radio. ANYONE who says that they obey
every law in the U.S. or Mexico is either a Liar or bedridden and paralyzed from the neck down. The HARM created by using a radio or exceeding an
unreasonable speed limit on an open highway is trivial. Illegally entering a foreign country and creating an economic and CRIMINAL (check the number
of illegals in the Criminal Justice sytem) problem of huge proportions is NOT.
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oxxo
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| Quote: | Originally posted by MrBillM
ALL laws are not equal and anyone who feels differently has a severe cognitive disability. IF observing ALL laws had equal value, the penalties for
not doing so would be equal. However, nobody is proposing the DEATH Penalty for illegal use of a Marine VHF radio. |
Let's see, the last time I checked, the penalty for illegal immigration into the U.S. was a free ride back to the border and deportation. No fine, no
jail time, nothing. So using your logic, illegal immigration is of little consequence (at least according to the penalties). If you are caught using
a VHF illegally, you will be fined at the minimum. So therefore illegal immigration is of lesser consequence than illegal use of a VHF.
I see that you, MrBillM, have set yourself up as the final arbiter of what laws to obey and what laws not to obey. According to the logic of Barry A
(a democracy depends on laws), YOU are the greatest threat to a free democracy. If everyone used your logic it would be chaos and anarchy. From a
Psychology perspective, you suffer from the "I'm okay, you're not okay" syndrome.
However, next time I can't decide which law to obey, I will contact you and ask your permission......NOT.
I'll be visiting San Felipe tomorrow. Look for me; I'll be the one driving the posted speed limit. I'm in no hurry. You will, no doubt, be the one
riding my bumper. Yes, I will pull over to the right so that you can pass in your Dodge Ram, 380 c.i.d., girlie-man twuck as you give me the finger.
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Taco de Baja
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| Quote: | Originally posted by mtgoat666
I suspect they contribute more to the economy than they cost our economy. Personally, I find immigrants harder working people and generally more
morally upright than the lard-asses that have been here for several generations.. I think we should start kicking out the lard-asses that have been
here too long and no longer work as hard as the immigrants. |
You suspect?
Based on what? Let's look at one issue, Education. It costs approximately $10,000 per student per year to get a so called "education" in a public
school in California. If a small family of illegals comes up to the US (dad, mom and their 5 kids), that's $50,000 in taxes for "education". Your
telling me his family contributes $50,000 into society? Please! And this is not even counting the food stamps, medi-cal, free school lunches and
breakfasts, healthcare, the family also receives.
I agree on the lard asses comment. I have an idea  lets ship our
lard-asses to Mexico and demand that Mexico provide for them, including providing them with translators for government services, and English ballots
so they can vote in mexican elections....Especially since we know the lard asses will be too lazy to learn Spanish.
It could be part of the free trade agreement. One US lard-ass in exchange for an illegal worker.
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