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edinnopolo
Nomad
Posts: 138
Registered: 5-1-2005
Member Is Offline
Mood: laid back
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| Quote: | Originally posted by capt. mike
Hey Ed - !! Dumb me. I just figured out why you hated LB so much - you live in no polo? - yes??
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Hey Clouseau,
Your power of deduction has no end.
Ed IN Nopolo
Blessed be the flexible for they shall not bend out of shape.
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rogerj1
Nomad
Posts: 265
Registered: 4-29-2004
Location: Gig Harbor, WA
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Back off on Capt. Mike, he's just sharing his opinion, which anyone can agree with or disagree with. It takes courage to take the other side in an
emotional topic like LB.
Over the last year I've spent time with the rats and I'll tell you, if I hadn't done my homework I would have risked losing a fair amount of
money.(Mike, I'll update you on Rancho el B). It felt like being in the middle of the Gold Rush in the Wild Wild West. Most of the risk involved
developers offering ownership in a development that they didn't actually own or have clear title on. The advice of talking to a Mexican attorney is
very good advice.
I work for a company, like Citigroup, and got involved in introducing potential deals in Mexico to our real estate group. There is billions of
dollars being raised from investors looking to invest in Mexico. They have no idea how to do it, so they turn to a company like Citigroup. Loreto is
considered to be "opportunistic" which means property values have some speculative upside relative to more established resort towns like Cabo, Puerto
Vallarta, and Cancun. There's a chain of deals that take place going from most speculative to opportunistic to conservative income producing
properties. What it sounds like to me is that early investors are taking profits and that more conservative money is getting in. The developers of LB
took substantial risk to turn "nothing" into an established town. Give them credit, they made it happen. I doubt the original developers have the
capital to take their plan for LB to it's conclusion. That's where big money starts to come in. Citigroup may be using some of their own money and/or
money they've raised from investors that want to make money in Mexico at a rate of 20% a year instead of the 100% the seed money made. Eventually
Citigroup will pay off their investment by selling to an insurance company or university endowment that will buy Loreto Bay for it's income producing
ability. That's how the game works.
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jerry
Super Nomad
Posts: 1354
Registered: 10-10-2003
Location: loreto
Member Is Offline
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Roger then why would the letters contain alaska airlines contract expiring with the airport in Loreto?? is it shooting them selves in the foot is it
manditory disclosier? or driving the stock??
jerry and judi
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jerry
Super Nomad
Posts: 1354
Registered: 10-10-2003
Location: loreto
Member Is Offline
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Id like to know if Loreto Bay fails who is going to help pay for the desalt plant when the wells fail?? and we all know they will sooner then later.
whos going to pay for staffing the nice new hospital that Loreto Bay payed for??
whos going to pay for the improvements to the sewer shared by loreto Bays and nopolos and Loretos new housing ??
jerry and judi
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capt. mike
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8085
Registered: 11-26-2002
Location: Bat Cave
Member Is Offline
Mood: Sling time!
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HAHA!! Who's seen the new terminal under construction at loreto?
thx Roger - you know your stuff but don't expect the non biz minded reading here to comprehend long range alternative planning and structured
work-outs. 
Don't worry about me, i get a real kick out of a little dialogue and controversy yaking with the confused few here. Its too funny! How a few get so wrangled.......
this was all about opinion, nothing else - i got real issues i deal with elsewhere that truly matter, not about retiring or living or owning "arena"
in a foreign country!
Yes - fill me in when you can on the latest for R. el B.
I just flew over it thurs headed to Loreto and Cabo for DP Racing's 1000 pre run. Rich keeps inviting me down but haven't had the time with the other
AZ stuff i got going on.
Hey Wilderone, stop off in phx this summer, its less than 115 in the shade at my place - i have misters. 
And i can introduce you a few real pimps if you want to understand how they really operate. 
formerly Ordained in Rev. Ewing\'s Church by Mail - busted on tax fraud.......
Now joined L. Ron Hoover\'s church of Appliantology
\"Remember there is a big difference between kneeling down and bending over....\"
www.facebook.com/michael.l.goering |
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oldlady
Banned
Posts: 1714
Registered: 10-31-2005
Location: BCS
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by capt. mike
HAHA!! Who's seen the new terminal under construction at loreto?
thx Roger - you know your stuff but don't expect the non biz minded reading here to comprehend long range alternative planning and structured
work-outs.
Don't worry about me, i get a real kick out of a little dialogue and controversy yaking with the confused few here. Its too funny! How a few get so wrangled.......
this was all about opinion, nothing else - i got real issues i deal with elsewhere that truly matter, not about retiring or living or owning "arena"
in a foreign country!
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Having worked in the esoteric world of investment bankers I would like to say that if either one of you really "knew your stuff" you would be able to
explain the process more clearly to the people on this board who have not been exposed to it. Your arrogant and dissmissive attitude is unusual for
someone who is selling a service.
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backninedan
Senior Nomad
Posts: 865
Registered: 3-8-2003
Location: Loreto
Member Is Offline
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Leave it to the money hungry to consider the nopolo area "nothing" until there is an 'established town" there. That is really sad.
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Crusoe
Senior Nomad
Posts: 731
Registered: 10-14-2006
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rogerj1......Your conception of "nothing" is so ignorant and disgraceful you should go find a deep dark hole to climb into it. It is people like you
that are so insensitive to ecological and natural ethnic human development that is ruining alot of the nicer places that exist in Baja.Your
shortsighted attitude is sick beyond belief!!!!
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Skipjack Joe
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8084
Registered: 7-12-2004
Location: Bahia Asuncion
Member Is Offline
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Yes, Backninedan, that's the core of the matter.
| Quote: | Originally posted by rogerj1
The developers of LB took substantial risk to turn "nothing" into an established town. |
They see it as turning nothing into an established town. And we see it as turning a lovely area into nothing.
How sad.
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flyfishinPam
Super Nomad
Posts: 1727
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Loreto, BCS
Member Is Offline
Mood: gone fishin'
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| Quote: | Originally posted by oldlady
Having worked in the esoteric world of investment bankers I would like to say that if either one of you really "knew your stuff" you would be able to
explain the process more clearly to the people on this board who have not been exposed to it. Your arrogant and dissmissive attitude is unusual for
someone who is selling a service. |
Yes Captain Mike and the ther person with a sun avatar whose name I canīr recall. I am no expert on financial subjects but I live in this town and I
guess I along with the other town's residents are your pawns to be used as playthings. I would certainly appreciate a clear explaination without
condesention for a change. I would not speak or write in the tone that you have if I were to explain say, the physical chemisrty of tertiary protein
reactions to synthetic enzyme substrate analogs to those who were learning about it for the first time. The concepts of which we speak are likely
equally complex.
Loreto Bay did not make a town and they did not start with nothing. Over and over I was told by their sales force that they acquired
a complete infrastructure with which to build out and finish (and make wads of moolah). This was part of their schpeel. They said the hard work was
already done. They were a bunch of crooks and that will be proved.
A town has homes and families, retail markets, schools, medical facilities and necessary services. Where are the schools in LB? Where is the retail
in Loreto Bay? Only a fool would set up shop there as it would be like setting up shop in the middle of nowhere, actually worse it wouldn't be
noticed at all because everything looks the same there, and also there are no consumers. This can be proven by the taking a look at the existing
market there El Porton, who canīt keep a simple deli running or stock oon its shelves despite state of the art equipment inside a beautiful building,
the business just isn't there. Maybe that is why there is no retail there yet?
All LB has done is build a bunch of condos and if you take a look at what other offerings there are in this area it is a bad deal and a joke, and now
more than ever. Mike wouldn't invest there because #1 he hasn't the money and #2 he probably deep down thinks its a lousy investment.
I like others in this conversation did not come to Loreto to speculate on land so as to raise the value out of orbit to those who really deserve to
obtain it (the real Loretanos). I came here to LIVE. I have a family and we have a future, a future that we will take into our hands and not allow a
bunch of outsiders to shape. and since we live here we have chosen not to live under a palapa in an RV but inside a house instead on our own land.
This is not just our recreational area its our life. If something catastrophic would happen up in PHX would Mike be able to easily just leave his
home, his property and business behind? Your words are insulting to people like me and to people who don't read this board, the many Loretanos who
also LIVE here and aren't here just to recreate.
Don't worry about the Alaska flights being canceled. It was in the plan for a long time that Frontier their subsidiary airlines would take over so
this is not new news. Alaska has hurt from the competition from Delta. They have to cut costs and downsize their planes to fit the needs of the
marketplace.
Jerry about the desal plant and other ammenities...we won't get a desal plant as it is too costly. LB never promised it if you read their fine print.
LB never promised a beach club or a marina, those were NEVER guaranteed. The hospital according to the news we read and the huge sign next to it is
being paid for by taxpayer funds and enhanced with donations by private industry. LB HAD to make a hospital work it was part of their sales pitch as
many of the aging folks that considered buying in were concerned with the serious lack of medical care obtainbale in Loreto.
If you think Loreto has water issues you may want to join those who are concerned as that was the heart of most of the issues discussed. I don't give
a rats ass about how many developments are to come here but if the natural resources and the man made infrastructure cannot support them then I do
give a rats ass and you should too. Without water we have NOTHING, our property will be worth NOTHING and the speculators will have thrown their
money into a barren desert.
One more thing. Many LB employees are now waiting for their liquidation, separation severance which is required by law. They will ALL have to be
laid off and new ones brought in or the productive ones rehired. Many construction workers who were brought in are now looking for housing. I know
this because they wander around where I live asking us if we know of places to live. Some are sleeping on the beaches. And they are all looking for
work around town. It is obvious some of them are stuck here with no money to return to where they came from. Gracias Loreto Bay 
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wilderone
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3823
Registered: 2-9-2004
Member Is Offline
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Roger, if bale-outs, intentional deceit, empty promises to those who actually put up the cash, a plan that has no substance or viability, millions of
dollars flung around amounting to a big circus show, constitute how the game works, then they should explain all the rules of the game to all
involved. Don't you think that's fair? Anything less is fraud.
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flyfishinPam
Super Nomad
Posts: 1727
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Loreto, BCS
Member Is Offline
Mood: gone fishin'
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"Most of the risk involved developers offering ownership in a development that they didn't actually own or have clear title on. The advice of talking
to a Mexican attorney is very good advice."
words of the dude with the sol avatar
uh...thatīs what LB was doing. They were selling land that had not yet been handed over to them by FONATUR wey.
On another note, this thread comes up number 7 and 9 respectively when you enter the words
Loreto Bay + citibank
and Loreto Bay + citigroup
no doubt that people doing their diligent homework before handing over wads of money will stumble on this board and read the TRUTH for a change
written by people who LIVE here and are affected by this fiasco. for this the nomad board is of great value. keep up the posts and remember to use
key words like Loreto Bay and investment and repossession and citigroup and citibank and serious water issues etc. 
oh yeah thanks wilderone hereīs another keyword...FRAUD
[Edited on 10-3-2007 by flyfishinPam]
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jerry
Super Nomad
Posts: 1354
Registered: 10-10-2003
Location: loreto
Member Is Offline
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ok pam what is going to happen when the wells runs dry?? why are you building a busness in a town with no future
the only way Loreto will have a future is water and the only way it will have water is a desalt plant whos gona pay for it??
i believe the future of Loreto is bound to the development of the area witch will provide for the amenaties we all need
to stagnate is to die
jerry and judi
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flyfishinPam
Super Nomad
Posts: 1727
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Loreto, BCS
Member Is Offline
Mood: gone fishin'
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| Quote: | Originally posted by jerry
ok pam what is going to happen when the wells runs dry?? |
you seem to have enough brain cells to answer this question yourself, why put me on the spot here? I already gave my response to this.
| Quote: | | Originally posted by jerrywhy are you building a busness in a town with no future |
Jerry, this is another attack is it not? I started my business eleven years ago before any of this was known. It wasn't until 2005 that the Harvard
study results were published. If I had known this before I wouldn't have done so but now I must live in the bed that I made myself of my own free
will, but I am not alone. Why don't you ask this question to all of the other businesspersons in town? Make sure you have a helmet on though.
| Quote: | | Originally posted by jerrythe only way Loreto will have a future is water and the only way it will have water is a desalt plant whos gona
pay for it?? |
good question. the demised development who spoke through both sides of their mouth and the other end promised waaay too much they obviously couldn't
deliver. this will stand as an example of what kind of boondogle other develepments will pose and Loretanos will question them more intensly. that
is good. now Loretanos must be made to fully understand that water is the most imortant resource there is, without it life cannot be sustained.
Loretanos must take charge of their own future and embrace a complete understanding on how they can conserve this precious resource. This will boil
down to caps on growth in this area.
| Quote: | Originally posted by jerryi believe the future of Loreto is bound to the development of the area witch will provide for the amenaties we all
need
to stagnate is to die |
you can believe what you want but economic reasons for developing are very much outweighed by the sustainability of life itself. if it comes down to
you the outsider or Loretanos for this resource who do you think will prevail? I know the answer to that one, its in the constitución. Investors and
foreigh retirees will neveer win. I suggest you read the history of Mexico, go back to the Mexican revolution where foreigners owned much of the
resources in this country and look at what happened.
I must exit and get back to work now. Mas mas tarde.
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jerry
Super Nomad
Posts: 1354
Registered: 10-10-2003
Location: loreto
Member Is Offline
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pam please make your self clear are you saying all foreigner should leave loreto so there will be no need for water?? do you think a cap on
development will refill the wells?? dont do anything to help the problem except a cap on development??
with out foreigners, their money,and tourests Loreto would dry up and blow away there is no industry little imployment in Loreto that isnt directly
conected to foreigners
I think it is nessary to produce out of a problem rather stagnating
jerry and judi
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backninedan
Senior Nomad
Posts: 865
Registered: 3-8-2003
Location: Loreto
Member Is Offline
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Jerry, I find it hard to believe you live here in Loreto and have not a clue. It amazes me.
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flyfishinPam
Super Nomad
Posts: 1727
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Loreto, BCS
Member Is Offline
Mood: gone fishin'
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taking a quick break before I pick up my kids from school..
jerry you have a reading comprehension problem.
among growth caps, other conservation measures such as using less, fixing leaks and rationing will have to be put into place in order to maintain
Loreto's water supply to sustainable levels.
HA!
jerry here's now a question for YOU: what would be a sustainable population level and growth rate for this town? I don't know the answer to that
and believe more research must be done, but I do know that we can't trust developers to tell us what it will be.
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vandenberg
Elite Nomad
Posts: 5118
Registered: 6-21-2005
Location: Nopolo
Member Is Offline
Mood: mellow
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To me, this project had, right from it's infancy, a kind of Barnem & Bailey feel to it. All hype and no substance.
Their original brochures stated in the fine print that the amenities, like spas, beachclub, restaurants, etc , were only proposals and thus not to be
taken for fact.
I remember that during the first few months of its inception I met several folks on the beach asking me questions about the project. I remember
vividly the lady who build and finished the first custom house. When she told me in the fall of 2004 that she was moving in in April, I asked her what
year, and was told that I was not very nice. Well, they moved in 2 years
later, were here for a few months and I haven't seen them since. The very first very fancy Home, accross the street from me, was completed, but the
owners were so disgusted with LB, that they sold within weeks of completion. And people associated with LB bought it, likely to prevend negative
reports about the real goings-on.
I find it hard to find any kind compassion for those folks that plunked down their money for a very poorly thought out project. I think they deserved
what they got. If you can afford that kind of money for a second home you have to have half a brain and should be able to use it.
Let's face it, developers wouldn't be able to come up with these kind of scams if it wasn't for the old Barnum adage " a sucker born every minute ".
But it seems that there is another sales event this weekend, so they haven't given up trolling for more.
For us , living here, we have hopes that Citigroup will not desert the project and make this ending up looking like Escondido. Hope their pockets are
deep enough to ,at least, finished the part that has been started.
And again, as for the LB owners, You Deserve What You Got !!
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Marie-Rose
Senior Nomad
Posts: 894
Registered: 10-2-2003
Location: Victoria, B.C. and Todos Santos
Member Is Offline
Mood: Worried...
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http://forums.bajanomad.com/viewthread.php?tid=1432#pid47179
Just went back to this thread started in 2003 about Villages of Loreto Bay
and it is SO interesting to see everyones feelings back then and now see
some of the same peoples comments.
Pam
I especially was interested and respect your views. You gave this project a hesitant "thumbs up" hoping that they would follow thru and make things
better for you and
your community. Unfortuantely it wasn't to be...
Remember, when in Mexico, yes may be no and no may be
maybe!
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Skipjack Joe
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8084
Registered: 7-12-2004
Location: Bahia Asuncion
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by vandenberg
If you can afford that kind of money for a second home you have to have half a brain and should be able to use it.
...
And again, as for the LB owners, You Deserve What You Got !! |
Even someone with half a brain deserves compassion.
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