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woody with a view
PITA Nomad
Posts: 15939
Registered: 11-8-2004
Location: Looking at the Coronado Islands
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Mood: Everchangin'
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really cool to hear your take on your mother's good long life. she's lucky to have a good son..
 all our best to MOM!!!!
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Howard
Super Nomad
Posts: 2353
Registered: 11-13-2007
Location: Loreto/Manhattan Beach/Kona
Member Is Offline
Mood: I'd rather regret the things I've done than regret the things I haven't done.
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First and foremost, good thoughts about your mother.
I will now give my 2 pesos worth.
This is still America, not some 3rd world Bull S--t country and our government employees MUST treat it's citizens with respect and not with strong
arm tactics. I fully realize that it is hard to tell the good guys from the bad guys and sometimnes the utmost of precaution must be taken on their
part. Once it became what I percieve as obvious that you were not a bad guy and to continue to treat you with no respect I find everyones act
unconscionable, including the supervisors, for at least not apologizing for their treatment.
I understand that in these times the government must take steps to stop the flow of bad people doing bad acts. I also understand the need for
undercover cars and unconventional ways to stop the bastards from doing unthinkable acts but this was way over the line on the handling of this stop.
I don't even know you guys and I am mad as hell. If I were in your shoes and once your mind comes off the thoughts of your Mom, I would report this
to everyone and anyone that will listen. This man went way over the line and once they found out you were not what he was looking for, he should off
handled it completely different.
I am not old enough to actually experience it (Thank God) but it almost sound like Germany in the 1930's!
Once last thing, where is the spell check on this damn site?
We don't stop playing because we grow old;
we grow old because we stop playing
George Bernard Shaw
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dianaji
Senior Nomad
Posts: 606
Registered: 8-12-2008
Location: San Marcos, CA
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Mood: hungry for knowledge, simplicity, hugs and fish tacos!
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howard,
as u type, the misspelled words are underlined in red. like this, unnerstan?
diana 
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dianaji
Senior Nomad
Posts: 606
Registered: 8-12-2008
Location: San Marcos, CA
Member Is Offline
Mood: hungry for knowledge, simplicity, hugs and fish tacos!
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i just noticed that when it gets posted, the red doesn't show up, however, while u are posting it, it does.
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Howard
Super Nomad
Posts: 2353
Registered: 11-13-2007
Location: Loreto/Manhattan Beach/Kona
Member Is Offline
Mood: I'd rather regret the things I've done than regret the things I haven't done.
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I see know read when I tipe. (just kidding on the spelling on this post) I see no red
We don't stop playing because we grow old;
we grow old because we stop playing
George Bernard Shaw
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Phil S
Super Nomad
Posts: 1205
Registered: 10-28-2003
Member Is Offline
Mood: After 34 years. Still in love w/ my wife
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BajaGringo. Sorry about your mom.!!! Your talking about profiling earlier.
If you do look like your avitar, no wonder they pulled you over!!!!!!!!!!
[Edited on 4-10-2009 by Phil S]
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jodiego
Nomad
Posts: 319
Registered: 2-16-2007
Location: San Diego
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Mood: ever hopeful
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"a profile stop"??? Not knowing you as others do BG, what was it about you and/or your vehicle that made them stop you in the first place?
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Iflyfish
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3747
Registered: 10-17-2006
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I am sorry that this happened to you. You did not need this on top of your worry about your mother. Reminds me of the tape I recently saw of a black
football player who the police would not allow to go into a hospital to see his dying mother in law. Shame of police and border patrol people who act
like this. They are supposed to represent us and a jerk like that should be seriously reprimanded and you deserve an apology.
I liked this post and thread, lots of issues to think about. I loved the "throw a donut out and see who salutes" approach. Funny, really funny.
Putting red lights and sirens in unmarked cars with tinted windows driven by men out of uniform is a set up for situations like this and it is clearly
a result of the paranoia that we are now experiencing post 9/11. These are indeed Gestapo tactics, as another poster stated and we aught not to
tolerate them.
Police and Border patrol have a job to do and it isn't to be our Jack Boots.
Iflyfish
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BajaGringo
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3922
Registered: 8-24-2006
Location: La Chorera
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Mood: Let's have a BBQ!
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I fully understand and support the need to use unconventional means in law enforcement today. By the officer's own admission I had committed no
crime/infraction and was stopped solely for driving an SUV with Baja plates late at night. I still have no problem with that. What I do have a problem
with was the fact that I am expected to just lay down and accept that anybody with a lightbar inside their vehicle and a gun can pull you over. His
badge had no photo ID with it. I commented to his supervisor that he only showed the badge to me after numerous requests on my part. The supervisor
responded that I should have complied at that point to which I said you can buy those badges today off Craigslist and eBay. He chuckled at that one.
That was probably as close to an apology as I got.
It also ticked me off the way the guy searching my vehicle threw out all my stuff onto the ground, including my clothes. For what was supposed to be
purely a profile style stop it sure seemed like I was being treated like a bad guy. There has to be a better way to do this and how they can handle
these kind of stops. Any Gringo living down here who drives with Baja plates could be affected. Maybe I just got lucky and got a real jerk.
Driving away I thought about the hundreds of times I have had my vehicle searched in Baja at military and Federal Police checkpoints on the road.
Makes me just want to stay on the south side of the border...
And no, I don't look like my avatar - I probably look closer to Ron Howard.
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tripledigitken
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4848
Registered: 9-27-2006
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Assuming BG does look like a Gringo and assuming his car has mexican plates that would send up red flags I'm sure.
Don't know if either of these assumptions are correct.
Of course to those that think Profiling is a carryover from the last administration nothing would justify the stop.
Ken
I was writing this as BG was posting the above.
[Edited on 4-10-2009 by tripledigitken]
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oldlady
Banned
Posts: 1714
Registered: 10-31-2005
Location: BCS
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My guess would be the Mexican plates. Not knowing who he was I would have slowed down hoping that if the light bar was legit he would follow me to a
well lit eixt/gas station in San Clemente.
But then, a woman's point of view isn't completely valid in this scenario. If I had stopped with engine running and window cracked, the second he
pulled his weapon I would have burst into tears and peed.
The initial part of the encounter was somewhat understandable. Uniformed or not, the officer has the bigger risk walking up to a vehicle not knowing
who or what is inside. Once he knew who you were an appropriate explanation and apology would have been in order.
More importantly, I hope your mother, you and your family receive good physical and emotional care during this time.
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BajaGringo
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3922
Registered: 8-24-2006
Location: La Chorera
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Mood: Let's have a BBQ!
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The point of my posting this thread was not to make any direct political statements or jabs at any administration but simply to see how different we
would inherently react to such circumstances based on whether we were north or south of the border. I also thought it curious as to how different the
military / police south of the border handle these types of stops than the border patrol seems to be doing. These kinds of stops happen frequently
south of the border and I have been a customer many times, probably because they think it strange to see a gringo driving an SUV with Baja plates in
Mexico as well. However in all the stops and checkpoints I have never been treated so as I was on this stop north of the border. I understand these
guys have a dangerous job but if you think of how many more officers south of the border have lost their life in this drug war and yet somehow they
manage to handle these stops with a lot more wisdom and civility.
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k-rico
Super Nomad
Posts: 2079
Registered: 7-10-2008
Location: Playas de Tijuana
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| Quote: | Originally posted by BajaGringo
I fully understand and support the need to use unconventional means in law enforcement today.
What I do have a problem with was the fact that I am expected to just lay down and accept that anybody with a lightbar inside their vehicle and a gun
can pull you over. |
Well, which is it?
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BajaGringo
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3922
Registered: 8-24-2006
Location: La Chorera
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Mood: Let's have a BBQ!
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I don't believe that unconventional means justifies the way this came down. To the contrary; if they are going to use completely unmarked vehicles
with plain clothes officers they have to first make sure that we understand who they are and the purpose of the stop. Otherwise it bears close
resemblance to a car jacking. I think a line has to be drawn somewhere and this isn't it...
YMMV
[Edited on 4-10-2009 by BajaGringo]
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k-rico
Super Nomad
Posts: 2079
Registered: 7-10-2008
Location: Playas de Tijuana
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| Quote: | Originally posted by BajaGringo
He then called the other officer over and together they tried to explain to me that this was a "profile stop" (I thought those were illegal) under a
program called highway intervention. |
Have they thrown "reasonable cause" out the window? Is driving a SUV with baja plates now reasonable cause to be stopped and searched?
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BajaGringo
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3922
Registered: 8-24-2006
Location: La Chorera
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Mood: Let's have a BBQ!
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Apparently so...
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k-rico
Super Nomad
Posts: 2079
Registered: 7-10-2008
Location: Playas de Tijuana
Member Is Offline
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Another trip to the "dark side".
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DianaT
Select Nomad
Posts: 10020
Registered: 12-17-2004
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First, Happy your mother is OK for now. It sounds like, however, she is becoming tired and that is never an easy thing with which to deal.
We agree with those who say you should file complaints for the way you were treated.
IMHO, you were correct to be cautious.
Diane and John
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tripledigitken
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4848
Registered: 9-27-2006
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by BajaGringo
............ However in all the stops and checkpoints I have never been treated so as I was on this stop north of the border. I understand these guys
have a dangerous job but if you think of how many more officers south of the border have lost their life in this drug war and yet somehow they manage
to handle these stops with a lot more wisdom and civility. |
BG,
With all due respect, are you really saying that the Mexican Authorities are the Benchmark to judge Police Forces?
Ken
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DianaT
Select Nomad
Posts: 10020
Registered: 12-17-2004
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by k-rico
| Quote: | Originally posted by BajaGringo
He then called the other officer over and together they tried to explain to me that this was a "profile stop" (I thought those were illegal) under a
program called highway intervention. |
Have they thrown "reasonable cause" out the window? Is driving a SUV with baja plates now reasonable cause to be stopped and searched?
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When crossing the border, they have the right to search your vehicle, but as you said, are baja plates now "reasonable cause" to be stopped and
searched north of the border, or do we no longer have a Bill of Rights?
As one of our bumber stickers says, Ignore you Rights and they will go away----and in the name of paranoia, they have been slipping away.
Diane
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