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David K
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| Quote: | Originally posted by jdtrotter
| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
Well... my question again is what freedoms did YOU lose? I didn't lose any and my country wasn't attacked again.
Communism? Ha ha, that is the next step after socialism and socialism is when government takes over businesses and operates them instead of private
citizens... sound familiar? Remember Russia used to be part of the Union of Soviet SOCIALIST Republics, run by the communist party. Socialism has
FAILED everywhere it has been tried.
They really don't teach that anymore do they? Even the Europeans with all their socialism (government run businesses and services) are abandoning that
as it fails to serve anyone well and bankrupts their economy. |
Again, 9/11 happened under the Bush watch. They were warned in May of 2001, then again Rice was warned in July of 2001---warnings included the idea
of Osama's group wanting to hijack airplanes, and explosives. And then, in August, GWB was personally warned while he was on one of many
vacations---he bushed off the warning. They might not have been able to stop it, but they ignored the warnings. Good Job.
And they continually used 9/11 as the reason for shredding our Constitution and then connected it and their lies about WMD to start a war in Iraq.
Gees, even Cheney admits today these things did not exist.
Then to run the war so Cheney could grow rich with his shares of Halliburton and no bid contracts, the cost of the war was never included in the
budget---instead, they added the costs after the budget and borrowed, borrowed, and borrowed.
First time in US history that the country was not asked to sacrifice something during wartime. Instead, Bush told everyone to go shopping and not
worry about it. Good job.
It is easy to use the fear words of socialism, commie, etc., and that is all they are, fear words. There are lots of different types of socialism,
lots of degrees---some works, and some does not, and it depends on lots of other circumstances.
And, unfortunately, in the name of stopping the commie waves, which were not really happening, the US as a government has been responsible for
setting up and supporting some of the worse governments in the world, Pappa Doc and Baby Doc in Hatti, Samoza in Nicaragua, the series of fascist
governments in Guatamala after the CIA did in Arbenz --which led to a 34 year civil war,--- the Iran incident that led to the Shah --on and on.
We would all be better off if the Commie boogie man was put to rest----and please, places like North Korea are commie in name only---they are fascist
dictatorships.
Back to the topic----there are decent ways to do searches, and then there are the other ways----what happened here, IMHO, was wrong.
Unfortunately, any type of law enforcement draws the wrong personality. Yes, there are MANY great people in law enforcement, but then there are the
power and control people.
Those in this country who are willing to give up their rights in the name of security remind me of the elite for whom we worked in Guatemala. They
wanted the fascist government back because they were safer---better law enforcement. It was better for them. They had all the financial control and
as long as they didn't speak up, they were safe.
As a result, in a room of these Guatemalan's, no one would speak an opinion until they were sure everyone else agreed with them. In their schools
under the fascist regimes, creative writing was taught---their version---it was all about having beautiful handwriting. Free thinking was
discouraged, but they were safer.
When someone is concerned only about exactly how something has affected them personally, and does not look at the big picture or care how it affects
other people, and only thinks about security, that is sad and how GWB and gang were able to operate. It is a little like my new favorite quote from
Craig T. Nelson on the Glen Beck show while complaining about the current economics.
"I've been on food stamps and welfare, did anybody help me out? No. No. "
[Edited on 6-10-2009 by jdtrotter] |
Very well written Diane... and yes, mistakes were made... However, we stopped Saddam and saved thousand of innocents from being (really) tortured in
his prisons and more young high school girls from being raped by his sons...
If we had only acted sooner against Hitler, think of the millions that would have been saved... Lack of action by good against evil is what kills
people. Liberals in the 1930's allowed that maniac to go unchecked... What kind of horrors would have been allowed to continue if we didn't liberate
Iraq from that brutal dictator?
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gnukid
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| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
Very well written Diane... and yes, mistakes were made... However, we stopped Saddam and saved thousand of innocents from being (really) tortured in
his prisons and more young high school girls from being raped by his sons...
If we had only acted sooner against Hitler, think of the millions that would have been saved... Lack of action by good against evil is what kills
people. Liberals in the 1930's allowed that maniac to go unchecked... What kind of horrors would have been allowed to continue if we didn't liberate
Iraq from that brutal dictator? |
I know that it may seem hard to follow the facts, but they are there DK, if you are interested.
Patriot Act and Military Commisions Act along with executive Orders have been used to dismantle the Constitution. Why? Why would you support that?
http://www.aclu.org/safefree/detention/39601prs20090515.html
http://www.fff.org/freedom/fd0702a.asp
http://www.aclu.org/safefree/resources/17343res20031114.html
http://w2.eff.org/patriot/
There is no Saddam 9/11 connection. Remember? Saddam was well funded by the US who also sold him more than 4 billion of bioweapons. Why? In truth he
made no threat to the USA, ever. Nor have we have ever declared war there. We have simply invaded and dumped more bombs on innocents than in our prior
history. Why? Why do you support it?
http://crooksandliars.com/john-amato/dick-cheney-says-there-...
Hitler was also funded by US interests, Remember? Prescott Bush participated with funding and aid to Hitler. Remember. Union Bank and Harrimen
Brothers Brown were convicted among others. Why?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2004/sep/25/usa.secondworldw...
It may be hard to imagine, but its the same case now and forever, finance and banking interests along with the military industrial complex fund war
for profit with disregard for life.
Its hard to pay attention and even harder to imagine that people do this, they do and always have. Why do you support this?
As to your justification for security:
Recall that in your example, no one was prosecuted for the Cole bombing. No evidence has been provided of terrorism? No one is in jail? Yes I know
what you'll say they escaped prosecution, but face it no one has been prosecuted and no evidence provided. Why?
http://mypetjawa.mu.nu/archives/189744.php
The first WTC bombing has been documented and admitted to be a case where FBI informants participated in planning and providing support to build a
bomb, while some agents suggested using a fake bomb, the FBI chief gave the go ahead for a real bomb and allowed the process to proceed. This is
public knowledge. Its on tape used in the trials. But its so shocking its hard to accept.
http://onlinejournal.com/artman/publish/article_1801.shtml
http://www.fff.org/freedom/fd0408c.asp
http://www.nytimes.com/1993/10/28/nyregion/tapes-depict-prop...
The WTC bombing on 9/11 has had no prosecutions, no evidence has been provided to support the theory that it was done by outsiders. Remember? None of
the named terrorists are in jail nor prosecuted in fact the opposite most were exonerated. I'll stop. I repeat, no evidence, no prosecutions, just
vague claims and many questions as to why the the towers fell down in free fall like demolition. As well Building 7 fell and wasn't even hit? Why?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2007/sep/12/911thebi...
The Kenya attacks too, I don't recall and evidence nor could I find it of terrorists. Yesterday, the first person has been brought to the US to stand
trial. This is more revealing for its implications to further erode our laws than for its example as justice.
http://edition.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/06/09/guantanamo.detain...
Remember the Bush State of the Union where he boasted of a Bosnian Terrorist attack thwarted? Turns out there was no evidence, and he was released as
well. Why? Is this beginning to sink in? Someone is lying?
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=7778310&page=1
So your assertions while emotional are not backed up by any evidence. Recall, the vast number of lies admitted about these incidents? Its strange
indeed. Why? Why would you parrot lies without any factual evidence?
http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/la-oe-brooks5-2009mar05,...
And finally in regard to wiretapping and loss of rights, its well documented everyone was wiretapped since before 9/11. Why? Who knows why?
http://www.eff.org/issues/nsa-spying
http://www.thenation.com/doc/20031013/corn
http://www.rawstory.com/news/mochila/Study_False_statements_...
I am boring myself here as well as the others, but perhaps you might consider that nothing you stated is based in any evidential fact. I wish it was.
Consider that the USA has the most vast network of military, intelligence, we track everything, all communication and yet they have no evidence of
terrorism by the detainees? How can that be? The most powerful military with secret intelligence and counter-intelligence can provide no evidence to
support their claims? That's significant and revealing?
Why not take a moment and look at yourself and your role to support the rapid assault on the American way of life and rule of law, look for evidence
to support your assertions. Why not ask a few questions.
So lets move on and focus on positivity like SKEET says. Let's be thankful for Baja's ever present ability to shed light on the truths in our lives.
Its hard to believe unsubstantiated lies when you are sitting on the edge of the Sierra de la Laguna, or on endless sandy beaches, faced by barren
landscapes.
[Edited on 6-10-2009 by gnukid]
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DianaT
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| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
Very well written Diane... and yes, mistakes were made... However, we stopped Saddam and saved thousand of innocents from being (really) tortured in
his prisons and more young high school girls from being raped by his sons...
If we had only acted sooner against Hitler, think of the millions that would have been saved... Lack of action by good against evil is what kills
people. Liberals in the 1930's allowed that maniac to go unchecked... What kind of horrors would have been allowed to continue if we didn't liberate
Iraq from that brutal dictator? |
Sorry, but that "excuse" for invading Iraq, IMHO, does not hold water.
I am afraid that in the world of real politick, human rights is not high on the list.
Governments and rebels we have supported, or at least we are not going after them, who have terrible human rights records----some are listed in my
other post. But here are a few more recent ones.
Suddam when he was at war with Iran
The Taliban when they fought against the Soviets
The Royal family of Saudi Arabia
China
Ukraine
and many more.
Using human rights as an excuse for invading Iraq was an after thought---an attempt to justify what happened.
Well, we are really in the realm of off-topic now and hijacking---so sorry and will leave it alone now.
Diane
[Edited on 6-10-2009 by jdtrotter]
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mtgoat666
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| Quote: | Originally posted by jdtrotter
Using human rights as an excuse for invading Iraq was an after thought---an attempt to justify what happened.
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also is hypocritical.
"yes, we invaded you in the name of human rights, but we lack humanity and will torture you when we see fit and condemn you to life in prison without
a trial."
gwb was the US republican party version of saddam.
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David K
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Making the 3 (three) terrorists think they are drowning to save lives is not torture... We waterboard our own special ops personal so they know what
to expect or how it works... Any of you ACLU lovers had a family member aboard one of the planes of 9-11 or in the towers or Pentagon???
Unbelievable how little value you lefties have in human life... shame shame
I would do anything I could to stop a killer of women and children... wouldn't you???
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Bajaboy
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| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
Making the 3 (three) terrorists think they are drowning to save lives is not torture... We waterboard our own special ops personal so they know what
to expect or how it works... Any of you ACLU lovers had a family member aboard one of the planes of 9-11 or in the towers or Pentagon???
Unbelievable how little value you lefties have in human life... shame shame
I would do anything I could to stop a killer of women and children... wouldn't you??? |
So are you suggesting that we invade North Korea???? Yes or no
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David K
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I don't think invading is needed... but we should take out his missle launch pads at once!
With so much evil in the world Zac, we need to pick our battles... If we stop one bully, it has a trickle effect... Look how nice Qadaffi of Libya is
now, compared to before!
The U.S. needs to be respected and trusted as the gaurdian of freedom... if not us, then who?
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DianaT
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| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
Making the 3 (three) terrorists think they are drowning to save lives is not torture... We waterboard our own special ops personal so they know what
to expect or how it works... Any of you ACLU lovers had a family member aboard one of the planes of 9-11 or in the towers or Pentagon???
Unbelievable how little value you lefties have in human life... shame shame
I would do anything I could to stop a killer of women and children... wouldn't you??? |
Yes, one family member got out of the building next to the towers and another extended family member did not.
And yes, I support the ACLU, even when they went to the defense of one of your heros, Rush. I think Rush is a very dangerous person, yet if his
rights are violated, so are mine.
Are you still connecting 9/11 to Suddam? Even Cheney does not do that anymore.
Torture and suggesting even when false, that the ends justify the means, IMHO, is very unAmerican. Cheney and his followers are the ONLY ones who
think waterboarding is NOT torture. Besides, they like to focus on that to avoid talking about the rest----
And, if you would do anything to stop the murder of women and children, why do you support the continued illegal occupation of Iraq?
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DianaT
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| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
I don't think invading is needed... but we should take out his missle launch pads at once!
With so much evil in the world Zac, we need to pick our battles... If we stop one bully, it has a trickle effect... Look how nice Qadaffi of Libya is
now, compared to before!
The U.S. needs to be respected and trusted as the gaurdian of freedom... if not us, then who? |
First we have trickle down economic which doesn't work, and now trickle down terror tactics? That is just an incredible statement.
And BTW, PLEASE don't "shame, shame" people and accuse them of not caring about lives------how dare you. No matter how big your ego, you are NOT a
superior humanitarian to anyone else around here, liberal or not.
Diane
edited to add the insulting quote before you can go back and delete it like you often do when you insult people.
| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
Unbelievable how little value you lefties have in human life... shame shame
I would do anything I could to stop a killer of women and children... wouldn't you??? |
[Edited on 6-10-2009 by jdtrotter]
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gnukid
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| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
Making the 3 (three) terrorists think they are drowning to save lives is not torture... We waterboard our own special ops personal so they know what
to expect or how it works... Any of you ACLU lovers had a family member aboard one of the planes of 9-11 or in the towers or Pentagon???
Unbelievable how little value you lefties have in human life... shame shame
I would do anything I could to stop a killer of women and children... wouldn't you??? |
Please refrain from further insulting comments like these above.
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ursidae69
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| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
Well... my question again is what freedoms did YOU lose? I didn't lose any and my country wasn't attacked again.
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How about the 4th amendment for starters??!!
Constitution Free Zone, the 100 miles around the border.
http://www.aclu.org/privacy/spying/areyoulivinginaconstituti...
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ursidae69
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| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
Making the 3 (three) terrorists think they are drowning to save lives is not torture... We waterboard our own special ops personal so they know what
to expect or how it works... Any of you ACLU lovers had a family member aboard one of the planes of 9-11 or in the towers or Pentagon???
Unbelievable how little value you lefties have in human life... shame shame
I would do anything I could to stop a killer of women and children... wouldn't you??? |
You are an offensive human being David.
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CaboRon
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| Quote: | Originally posted by ursidae69
| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
Making the 3 (three) terrorists think they are drowning to save lives is not torture... We waterboard our own special ops personal so they know what
to expect or how it works... Any of you ACLU lovers had a family member aboard one of the planes of 9-11 or in the towers or Pentagon???
Unbelievable how little value you lefties have in human life... shame shame
I would do anything I could to stop a killer of women and children... wouldn't you??? |
You are an offensive human being David. |
Offensive and disgusting , is that what being David is about
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David K
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| Quote: | Originally posted by gnukid
| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
Making the 3 (three) terrorists think they are drowning to save lives is not torture... We waterboard our own special ops personal so they know what
to expect or how it works... Any of you ACLU lovers had a family member aboard one of the planes of 9-11 or in the towers or Pentagon???
Unbelievable how little value you lefties have in human life... shame shame
I would do anything I could to stop a killer of women and children... wouldn't you??? |
Please refrain from further insulting comments like these above. |
Please refrain from posting stupid comments...
Waterboarding is not torture, putting somone's hand into a paper shreader is. We waterboarded only THREE terrorist because they had information that
saved lives. Saddam dipped people in acid, sreadded people alive, and countless other horrors.
There is no reasoning with some of you... If you think America is bad and needs to apologize to the world, then you got the right guy in office... and
to you he can do no wrong... People in Germany and Russia followed their leaders with the same blind HOPE and TRUST.
Rush or ANY talk show hosts are not dangerous except to enlighten those clouded by lies from the left. It is freedom of ideas and speach and it is a
call-in show to hear from across the country. Liberals even get pushed to the top... Do you ever listen to it or just trust your keepers in what they
say about him, Sean, and all the others on the radio? Liberals don't last long on the radio because most people don't like hearing how bad the USA is,
over and over. The only way a liberal could stay on the air is if a commercial radio station is forced to, despite terrible ratings and loss of
revenue.
America is a great country... We saved people all over the world from tyranny.
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Skeet/Loreto
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David: Is it not the Truth that the lefty Nuts always Hollar about their rights of Free Speech except it be when the Right is Speaking, then they
Hollar and Moan like the one Way weak minded Dummies they are!!!?
The above is not an Insult, but a Fact.
Some well placed Atomic Bombs in North Korea will do the Job. Just think the surviors could make their Country over to be as good as Japan.
Oh! Where are you Harry Truman, when we need You??
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David K
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Okay... whatever... shut down the voice of other opinions than yours, and all you have is the one side.
I'm disgusting and offensive, huh?
You don't know me... you only don't want me to say what's on my mind replying to others who said something first.
It is sad that you cannot just share your viewpoints without name calling... which is how liberals debate when they run out of their silly, emotional
ideas.
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DianaT
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| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
| Quote: | Originally posted by gnukid
| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
Making the 3 (three) terrorists think they are drowning to save lives is not torture... We waterboard our own special ops personal so they know what
to expect or how it works... Any of you ACLU lovers had a family member aboard one of the planes of 9-11 or in the towers or Pentagon???
Unbelievable how little value you lefties have in human life... shame shame
I would do anything I could to stop a killer of women and children... wouldn't you??? |
Please refrain from further insulting comments like these above. |
Please refrain from posting stupid comments...
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So now, people who disagree with your politics not only don't care much about the lives of others, they are stupid!
And you wonder why people get angry.
OK, would you consider this out of line and a personal insult?
DavidK you and your fellow conservatives obviously do not care about human lives and should feel shame. And your posts are stupid.
That is what you said to others.
You can't insult people over and over and expect that they will not respond.
Diane
On edit
| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
It is sad that you cannot just share your viewpoints without name calling... which is how liberals debate when they run out of their silly, emotional
ideas. |
Your insults are bound to draw angry responses.
[Edited on 6-10-2009 by jdtrotter]
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David K
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto
David: Is it not the Truth that the lefty Nuts always Hollar about their rights of Free Speech except it be when the Right is Speaking, then they
Hollar and Moan like the one Way weak minded Dummies they are!!!?
The above is not an Insult, but a Fact.
Some well placed Atomic Bombs in North Korea will do the Job. Just think the surviors could make their Country over to be as good as Japan.
Oh! Where are you Harry Truman, when we need You?? |
Thanks Skeet for that... YOU remember the wars in Korea and Asia ... and you know at one time Democrats loved America and hated communism as much as
Republicans. Now the Democrats embrace the hate of America and use Karl Marx for economic planning!
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Bajaboy
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto
David: Is it not the Truth that the lefty Nuts always Hollar about their rights of Free Speech except it be when the Right is Speaking, then they
Hollar and Moan like the one Way weak minded Dummies they are!!!?
The above is not an Insult, but a Fact.
Some well placed Atomic Bombs in North Korea will do the Job. Just think the surviors could make their Country over to be as good as Japan.
Oh! Where are you Harry Truman, when we need You?? |
So should we bomb the dictators of Africa as well? What about South America? Let's just bomb our way out of this problem....worked in Iraq
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mtgoat666
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| Quote: | Originally posted by ursidae69
| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
Making the 3 (three) terrorists think they are drowning to save lives is not torture... We waterboard our own special ops personal so they know what
to expect or how it works... Any of you ACLU lovers had a family member aboard one of the planes of 9-11 or in the towers or Pentagon???
Unbelievable how little value you lefties have in human life... shame shame
I would do anything I could to stop a killer of women and children... wouldn't you??? |
You are an offensive human being David. |
I don't think DK is offensive. I just think he and some others on the right and left don't think before they opens their yaps. I also think their
blind nationalism clouds their ability to think objectively, and prevents their empathy from applying to people of different cultures.
[Edited on 6-10-2009 by mtgoat666]
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