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DianaT
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| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
Yep... really! Man is a natural part of this planet, afterall.
Do you take issue with jack rabbits or deer that make trails worn in the desert soil...?
It is what it is...
I do have problems with the locals who think the desert is their dump and leave piles of trash in the desert after their camping time. I suppose
archeologists a couple hundred years from now will love that, however! |
Bizarre---
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rts551
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even more bizzzzzzarrrrrrre
| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
Yes, you are correct!
My light tracks will be gone in the first wind... animal tracks are very deep and continue to be used, and never erased. |
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TMW
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OK here's something to ponder.
Stop all Off-Road racing in Baja, including Baja Sur. What impact will it have. The three major SCORE events are gone. All the CODE events are gone as
all the others. With it all the efforts to raise money for such things as fighting cancer for the kids. Toys and clothing brought down by the racing
community and other donations. Maybe stop all the tour companies as well since they too use the same roads and trails with off road MCs and cars. Will
the people of Baja be better off?
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JESSE
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| Quote: | Originally posted by TW
OK here's something to ponder.
Stop all Off-Road racing in Baja, including Baja Sur. What impact will it have. The three major SCORE events are gone. All the CODE events are gone as
all the others. With it all the efforts to raise money for such things as fighting cancer for the kids. Toys and clothing brought down by the racing
community and other donations. Maybe stop all the tour companies as well since they too use the same roads and trails with off road MCs and cars. Will
the people of Baja be better off? |
Not now, but eventually, they will.
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rts551
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TW
I don't believe this is a Gringo/tourist only issue. I believe the Mexican citizens contribute quiet a bit to the sport as well as their own well
being. Probably more than the tourists who come down for the Score events.
Want to do a census during the 1000K race
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Paulclark
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How will the people of Baja be better off without racing? Are there any other sporting events that you advocate ending? Horse racing, sport fishing
etc.?
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JESSE
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Paulclark
How will the people of Baja be better off without racing? Are there any other sporting events that you advocate ending? Horse racing, sport fishing
etc.? |
I don't think anybody here is advocating ending anything, just want to make that clear. All i am poiting out, is that every year there seems to be
more opossition to these events. Now, if you evaluate the economic impact of the race and put aside any sentimental arguments you might have. I say,
at least for the overwhelming mayority of the people of Baja, its not something they care about.
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Paulclark
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I don't see that. I see lots of people attending the events and participating. I cannot think of another event in BCS that has larger attendances --
Have you ever been to a track event in Cabo or La Paz?
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Barry A.
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Location: Redding, Northern CA
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DianaT
| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
Yep... really! Man is a natural part of this planet, afterall.
Do you take issue with jack rabbits or deer that make trails worn in the desert soil...?
It is what it is...
I do have problems with the locals who think the desert is their dump and leave piles of trash in the desert after their camping time. I suppose
archeologists a couple hundred years from now will love that, however! |
Bizarre--- |
You know, David's statement is really not that bizarre, at least to me. The trails left by deer are VERY obvious, and NEVER disappear as they are
continually used. Personally I don't particularly like seeing them, but it never occurred to me to be offended by them------they "are what they are".
Similarly, Patton's tracks are not offensive to me-----they fasinate me, as do the old mining projects all over the desert. David has a good
point--------
And as for the "trash"------well THAT IS my main concern also, and always has been. So, once again, David and I are on the same wave-length. (
Surprise ) 
Barry
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mtgoat666
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Barry A.
| Quote: | Originally posted by DianaT
| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
Yep... really! Man is a natural part of this planet, afterall.
Do you take issue with jack rabbits or deer that make trails worn in the desert soil...?
It is what it is...
I do have problems with the locals who think the desert is their dump and leave piles of trash in the desert after their camping time. I suppose
archeologists a couple hundred years from now will love that, however! |
Bizarre--- |
You know, David's statement is really not that bizarre, at least to me. The trails left by deer are VERY obvious, and NEVER disappear as they are
continually used. Personally I don't particularly like seeing them, but it never occurred to me to be offended by them------they "are what they are".
Similarly, Patton's tracks are not offensive to me-----they fasinate me, as do the old mining projects all over the desert. David has a good
point--------
And as for the "trash"------well THAT IS my main concern also, and always has been. So, once again, David and I are on the same wave-length. (
Surprise )
Barry |
so, let me get this straight,... some 50ish and 60ish year old men think that 60-year old trash is good, but recent trash is bad -- and that pesky
wildlife is ruining the desert with all those dang footprints. did i get that correct?
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fishbuck
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I had commented earlier that I only race closed course motocross. Usually on private property and I pay to race there.
In the US alot of Trophy Truck racing is now done on closed course race tracks too. It's possible that the BAJA 1000 may end up as a closed course
race series in the future.
There are alot of benefits and advantages to closed course racing.
But it just wouldn't be the same.
"A ship in harbor is safe, but that is not what ships are built for." J. A. Shedd.
A clever person solves a problem. A wise person avoids it. – Albert Einstein
"Life's a Beach... and then you Fly!" Fishbuck
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Barry A.
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No Goat---------you got it wrong---------as usual you are spinning what we said, and making broad assumptions which are incorrect.
My how typical!!! You seem to not be able to stand that some people have different assessments than you, and don't see things thru your particular
prism.
Barry
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rts551
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Pls tell me BA. what "we" really meant to say???????
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LaTijereta
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| Quote: | Originally posted by ElFaro
There needs to be a reality check here regarding the Baja 500 and Baja 1000.
Why should the Baja Mexicans tolerate Baja as the rich So. Calif. racers sandbox for this many years? Why do you think SCORE has gotten away with
these races in the past?...because the Baja Mexicans were too few and too poor to have any say about who was running roughshod over their land. SCORE
simply has done an "end-around" by dealing with the Mex. government directly and bypassing the locals. But I don't think that will last. Some
Mexican business people I have talked to know that the races bring virtually no economic impact to Baja.
First the myths...
1. 250,000 spectators...pure BS...and who is providing these #'s...SCORE and Sal Fish of course! They have a MAJOR PR problem right now with
justifying these races in Baja. All these stats are WAGS (Wild *ss Guesses). It all depends how you define "spectators". Yea if I'm driving down
the hiway and I glance over to the race course I'm I counted as a "spectator"?
2. I have seen WAGS of the races bringing in $1-4 million..more gross BS from SCORE. More like max. $100,000. Most of these racers and their support
crews are self-contained...very little $'s spent in Baja...a few hotel rooms, beer, tacos, and condoms.
3. I had never been down for a Baja 500 or 1000 race until about 3 years ago. At the time my brother and I happened on a Baja 500 race in Ensenada
while returning from fishing in San Quintin. We stopped at Estero Beach for the night. There was no place to park our trailer so the mgr. let us
park along side the "game room" for the night. The campground was full of toy haoulers and the hotel had a few rooms booked. What I saw was a real
"eye opener". All the racers were staying in the campground at $45/nite...so figure roughly 80 sites times $45 equals $3600/nite per day...for what 3
days? Maybe $10,000 for lodging for what looked like an average of 4 people per site so per person $12/day...hardly any big spenging going on here.
And...everyone was eating their own food prepared in their trailers! In fact a couple had outdoor cooking areas set up and had "chow lines". So I
don't want to hear about all this money being spent in "local" restaurants 'cause it ain't happening".
4. And all the racers in the campground had their own tools, parts, equipment, etc. and were sharing with each other which means "local" Mexican
repair shops are completely by-passed...they're not even a factor...certainly no $'s spent there.
5. Next opportunity you can check out a video of the Baja 1000 finish line...the one I watched a couple years ago was in Cabo and the 1st thing I
noticed was there were virtually NO Mexicans at the finish line to greet the racers! THEY DON"T CARE! |
I think if you look around there is plenty of Mexican participation at offroad races..
Baja Sur is ready to have SCORE back next year for a race finish in La Paz.. Tourist Board will end up paying SCORE tens of thousands of dollars to
get SCORE back.. they must know how much this race means the economy.
Even Loreto has paid SCORE a fee (plus graded course roads) just to get the race course closer to town the last few times have raced South
Democracy is like two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote.
Ben Franklin (1759)
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JESSE
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These races are perfect opportunities for Mexican tourist boards. They do nothing, trow some little money around, get their logos plastered
everywhere, and looks great on their resume at the end of the year when they send the yearly report to congress. Here in La Paz, when i first got
here, i tought it was going to be a huge event, but the other local businessmen told me it wasnt. I got ready for the crowds, and nothing. The racers
and their crews just wanted to get back home. The only ones that made good money was the beer companies.
This is reality, i am not making things up.
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Barry A.
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| Quote: | Originally posted by rts551
Pls tell me BA. what "we" really meant to say??????? |
Refer back to the latest posts by David and I. It is clear to me, but I doubt that I can make it any clearer for those that interpret it similar to
Mt. Goat. 
Barry
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David K
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Just one more plus for off road racing in Baja... without it, Doug may have never created this web site we all enjoy so much!
Coming to Ensenada for the Baja races was how Doug got introduced to the peninsula! His father was the creator of TRICK Racing Fuel and Doug came down
to man the booth at contingency in Ensenada.
So, a big thank you to off road racing and Doug's dad for exposing Baja to him! (It was my dad who exposed me to Baja, as well)
VIVA TRICK RACING FUEL!
[Edited on 11-25-2009 by David K]
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mtgoat666
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Barry A.
| Quote: | Originally posted by rts551
Pls tell me BA. what "we" really meant to say??????? |
Refer back to the latest posts by David and I. It is clear to me, but I doubt that I can make it any clearer for those that interpret it similar to
Mt. Goat.
Barry |
one boy's trash is another boy's treasure.
i thought y'all were pretty clear -- animal footprints are bad and vehicle erosion scars and mine waste are good
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Barry A.
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| Quote: | Originally posted by mtgoat666
| Quote: | Originally posted by Barry A.
| Quote: | Originally posted by rts551
Pls tell me BA. what "we" really meant to say??????? |
Refer back to the latest posts by David and I. It is clear to me, but I doubt that I can make it any clearer for those that interpret it similar to
Mt. Goat.
Barry |
one boy's trash is another boy's treasure.
i thought y'all were pretty clear -- animal footprints are bad and vehicle erosion scars and mine waste are good |
------it's all in your perspective, Goat. Lets agree to disagree, and let it go at that.
HAPPY THANKS GIVING!!!!!
Barry
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DENNIS
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| Quote: | Originally posted by mtgoat666
i thought y'all were pretty clear |
Who knows what's clear.
Have a nice Thanksgiving, Goat. All you other argumentative folks as well.
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