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monoloco
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| Quote: | Well, I think a better way to go is to cut demand for drugs. Instead of giving billions to Mexico for drug intervention, why not just spend it on a
domestic program to teach people against the use of drugs? Remember how you cannot watch TV for more than 5 minutes without a political ad right
before the presidential elections? The media is totally saturated with such ads. It is impossible to avoid them.
Why not just saturate the US with anti-drug messages in every form of media we have? Make people so sick of hearing about it that they will avoid
drugs just in the hope the ads would stop. Besides that, it is entirely domestic spending, not foreign aid. |
You mean like the DARE program, Just say No, and This is Your Brain On Drugs? It doesn't seem to have worked very well so why would
more of the same?
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Bajahowodd
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You Got That Right
| Quote: | | We tried that, it was called mandatory minimum sentencing. It succeeded in filling our prisons with millions of drug offenders costing the taxpayer
billions of dollars but did nothing to reduce the amount of drugs on the street. The best indicator of supply is price and the price of cocaine is
lower now than it was in the 70's. |
and whilst on the topic of concentration of wealth, I almost get the feeling that the US and Mexico are on the same track heading in opposite
directions. Blame Slim and his ilk all you wish. Fact is that Slim lived out the American Dream Mexico-style. Read his bio. He once drove a cab. Not
to defend him, but is what's going on in the US any different? Only for the fact that the US once had a thriving middle class, that has been
diminishing for decades. At least Mexico has a larger middle class than it had historically. The comparison boils down to poverty. The poor in the US
have more than the poor in Mexico.
All that said, no offense to Arrowhead, but you could put Nancy Reagan on a continuous loop touting "Just Say No", and play it 24/7 in all media.
People still want to get high.
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oldlady
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Do you think those programs had the same level of commitment and money behind them as Global Warming? Gay Marriage? Pro-Choice? Cigarettes?
Trans-fats? Political Campaigns of Hope and Change?
We've turned controlling sheeple into an art form.
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monoloco
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| Quote: | and whilst on the topic of concentration of wealth, I almost get the feeling that the US and Mexico are on the same track heading in opposite
directions. Blame Slim and his ilk all you wish. Fact is that Slim lived out the American Dream Mexico-style. Read his bio. He once drove a cab. Not
to defend him, but is what's going on in the US any different? Only for the fact that the US once had a thriving middle class, that has been
diminishing for decades. At least Mexico has a larger middle class than it had historically. The comparison boils down to poverty. The poor in the US
have more than the poor in Mexico.
All that said, no offense to Arrowhead, but you could put Nancy Reagan on a continuous loop touting "Just Say No", and play it 24/7 in all media.
People still want to get high. |
We are going down the same road in the US, just look at the disparity of
executive compensation and wages. The US is heading towards the same kind of oligarchy that exists in Mexico.
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Bajahowodd
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Money Money Money
| Quote: | Originally posted by oldlady
Do you think those programs had the same level of commitment and money behind them as Global Warming? Gay Marriage? Pro-Choice? Cigarettes?
Trans-fats? Political Campaigns of Hope and Change?
We've turned controlling sheeple into an art form. |
If, by commitment, you are speaking of expenditures of taxpayer dollars, why don't you check out how much this country has spent on the so-called war
on drugs.
Furthermore, it seems to me that the single greatest success in marketing has been to convince people to buy stuff they don't need, and go into debt
in the process.
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monoloco
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| Quote: | Originally posted by oldlady
Do you think those programs had the same level of commitment and money behind them as Global Warming? Gay Marriage? Pro-Choice? Cigarettes?
Trans-fats? Political Campaigns of Hope and Change?
We've turned controlling sheeple into an art form. |
The drugs are probably part of the control equation. If
you are stoned all the time you wouldn't know or care if you are being controlled, I think maybe that is why we have seen such a proliferation of
drugs like Prozac.
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Dave
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No, we haven't
| Quote: | Originally posted by monoloco
We tried that |
I meant HARSH and STRICT not...
MINIMUM and MAYBE.
Draconian penalties, mandatory arrests, no plea bargain or expungement, no nada.
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oldlady
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My goodness, monoloco, if I didn't "know" you better I'd say a tin foil hat fell out of the sky on you.....maybe it was mine.
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Bajahowodd
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You Would Love Iran
| Quote: | Originally posted by Dave
| Quote: | Originally posted by monoloco
We tried that |
I meant HARSH and STRICT not...
MINIMUM and MAYBE.
Draconian penalties, mandatory arrests, no plea bargain or expungement, no nada. |
Or any number of countries that have no civil liberties. I'm guessing that you NEVER smoked pot. I'm guessing that you would blanket college campuses
with police and arrest half of our student population, throw them in dungeons and throw away the key?
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monoloco
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Dave
| Quote: | Originally posted by monoloco
We tried that |
I meant HARSH and STRICT not...
MINIMUM and MAYBE.
Draconian penalties, mandatory arrests, no plea bargain or expungement, no nada. |
You mean like 5 years for
a small amount of crack? We did that, it didn't work.
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oldlady
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I wouldn't like those countries...but what they hey...we are losing our civil liberties every day anyway every day...The rest sounds just fine....I'd
include the junior high and high schools too. Wouldn't throw away the key.
10 years ought to clean the users up and scare the ones who are thinking about it. Any amount of anything.
While this may come as a big surprise to some of you...many people have lived long and happy lives without using any illegal drugs.
[Edited on 12-23-2009 by oldlady]
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Bajahowodd
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Geez. We already have the distinction of having more people in prison of all countries, except for Russia.
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oldlady
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So what?
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DENNIS
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Prisoners should be made to work. Dig things with their hands. Eat rocks and twigs.
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monoloco
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Maybe we should just legalize every type of narcotic and sell them in the pharmacy. If you are certified by a doctor as a drug addict you get a
prescription. That way there is no reason to steal to get a fix and if you OD so what. It has been proven, with heroin addiction, that given pure
drugs, that an addict can be somewhat functional. It would deprive the cartels of their market and reduce crime in the US.
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oldlady
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Nope. You'd be introducing a form of regulation and bureaucracy and the black market would still exist. That's the core of the problem we are trying
to solve. Either let them buy, inexpensively, as much as they want wherever they want and have an orderly supply side or extinguish the market. This
half baked approach has had no positive impact.
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Dave
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Bajahowodd
I'm guessing that you NEVER smoked pot. I'm guessing that you would blanket college campuses with police and arrest half of our
student population, throw them in dungeons and throw away the key? |
No. Strict enforcement would eliminate the need.
I've smoked pot...used other recreational drugs, also.
But if I were convinced of the consequences I wouldn't.
Would you?
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k-rico
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Dave
| Quote: | Originally posted by oldlady
In some ways Mexico may have allowed itself to be used by the US as sort of a first line market regulator.
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That's certainly what it's become but I doubt planned. Why would the U.S. trade Colombia for Mexico? Makes no sense to move your dealer next door.
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Unintended consequences. Way back in the last century one of the first tactical moves of the WAR ON DRUGS was to shut down the Caribbean drug route
from Columbia. Don Johnson, Miami Vice, Scarface, you remember.
Escobar said OK, I'll talk to pineapple face in Panama. Next move, invade Panama. Pablo said OK, I like tequila, Mexico, here we come.
Canada, watch out, the Smyth Cartel of Windsor / Detroit is forming now! Canadian Snow.
Whack-a-mole.
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Bajahowodd
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I want to correct a previous post. Having done a little research, here's some stats.
The US has approximately 5% of the world's population, but it has 23% of the world's prisoners. There are presently 2.3 million people incarcerated in
the US. China, with four times the population (yeah, that China, where no one has any freedom) has four times the population of the US, but "only" 1.6
million prisoners.
Historically, the US was not in such a position. However, after 1975, the incarceration rates began to skyrocket, as a result of getting tough on
crime attitudes of the prevailing government. (think- Nixon didn't like all the potheads returning from Viet Nam who mostly didn't smoke pot until
they went off to war).
Interestingly, there are a number of countries that rival us in actual numbers of admissions to prisons, but as was mentioned earlier about mandatory
minimum sentencing, prisoners serve far longer terms in the US than anywhere else.
It has also been posited that widespread availability of guns in the US allows for many more crimes that would meet the definition of being
aggravated, thus resulting in longer sentencing.
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Bajahowodd
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Consequences?
| Quote: | No. Strict enforcement would eliminate the need.
I've smoked pot...used other recreational drugs, also.
But if I were convinced of the consequences I wouldn't.
Would you? |
You are referring to incarceration? That threat has been around since the 1930s.
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