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rjlaszlo
Junior Nomad
Posts: 27
Registered: 1-27-2010
Location: Camalu
Member Is Offline
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Get Involved!
Come by and visit, before you pass tooo harsh a judgement. Easy for me to say, since I'm only 3 plus hours from the border. How far are you from the
USA/Mexico crossing? Thanks, Robert
| Quote: | Originally posted by Bajahowodd
I hope everyone had fun with this exercise. I chose not to get involved after checking the linked web page yesterday and seeing the photos of
"amenities" that were, in some cases, hour(s) from the subject property. That level of disingenuousness up front told me not to waste any of my time.
But it has been fun reading all the posts.
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rjlaszlo
Junior Nomad
Posts: 27
Registered: 1-27-2010
Location: Camalu
Member Is Offline
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25 Feet In Elevation
Hola,
I believe all the confusion here is totally my fault. Our property is at an elevation 25' above the mean high tide. I referenced this number only to
point out the fact that we will not be subject to the same type storm surge and flooding that was experienced in the river basin of Mulege, Baja Sur.
Thanks, Robert
| Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
| Quote: | Originally posted by Sonora Wind
I think what Robert was saying was, the land in Question was 25 feet in the air/above sea level/higher than the mean high tide. Not how far from the
shores edge. However I'm almost always wrong about almost everthing most of the time. |
Yeah....That might be what he meant although, I think the required twenty meter distance is measured on a horizontal plane. |
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rjlaszlo
Junior Nomad
Posts: 27
Registered: 1-27-2010
Location: Camalu
Member Is Offline
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Subdivision
There are several ways to make a taco, and a subdivision. If you buy one of my lots, I'll show you how it's done. Thanks, Robert
| Quote: | Originally posted by Donjulio
Even if he was Mexican and owned it outright, if there are more than 5 lots then it is not considered Rustica and therefore has to be legally
permitted and subdivided in order to sell it and transfer title. There is no way around that unless you get really creative and sell shares in the
corporation. |
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Donjulio
Nomad
Posts: 376
Registered: 5-19-2009
Member Is Offline
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Simple questions. If someone purchases a lot from you can they get a fideicomiso? Or can they receive title in a corporation? And....who do they pay
taxes to?
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arrowhead
Banned
Posts: 912
Registered: 5-5-2009
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by rjlaszlo
There are several ways to make a taco, and a subdivision. If you buy one of my lots, I'll show you how it's done. Thanks, Robert
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You said in an earlier post that you needed the consent of 65% of the owners for "normalization" of the lots. If they are not "normalized", then just
what is it you are selling? A promise to deliver a lot at some future date, after you subdivide the property and get it normalized? What is the
security you are going to put up to guarantee you deliver a lot that a gringo can buy with a fideicomiso?
By the way, this would be totally illegal in California.
[Edited on 2-3-2010 by arrowhead]
No soy por ni contra apatía.
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Donjulio
Nomad
Posts: 376
Registered: 5-19-2009
Member Is Offline
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I believe we all know that in the restricted zone in Mexico, which is 50 kms from the water and 100 kms from the border, the only way a foreigner can
"legally" own land is through a fideicomiso or a corporation. If the property is going to be used for residential purposes by the owner it MUST be in
a fideicomiso to have "Ownership" and rights of ownership. Anything else is not an actual "Ownership". I don't care how you want to write it, word it,
explain it or spin it. That is according to the Mexican Constitution and the foreign investment act.
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arrowhead
Banned
Posts: 912
Registered: 5-5-2009
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Donjulio
I believe we all know that in the restricted zone in Mexico, which is 50 kms from the water and 100 kms from the border, the only way a foreigner can
"legally" own land is through a fideicomiso or a corporation. If the property is going to be used for residential purposes by the owner it MUST be in
a fideicomiso to have "Ownership" and rights of ownership. Anything else is not an actual "Ownership". I don't care how you want to write it, word it,
explain it or spin it. That is according to the Mexican Constitution and the foreign investment act. |
Yeah, my point is that they are not even legal lots yet. Robert has to overcome the first hurdle...like, what is it he is selling?
No soy por ni contra apatía.
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k-rico
Super Nomad
Posts: 2079
Registered: 7-10-2008
Location: Playas de Tijuana
Member Is Offline
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I'm looking at the receipt I received when paying my property taxes a few weeks ago. The property has a "Clave Catastral" which is the property
identifier.
I'm thinking that if I were to buy a lot I'd want to know what the clave catastral is and see at least the latest property tax payment receipt.
With that information I'd go to the local notario to ensure that the person I'm buying the property from is the registered owner of the parcel and
that what I'm being sold matches the property registered with the clave catastral. No clave catastral, no deal.
Reasonable??
[Edited on 2-3-2010 by k-rico]
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Curt63
Super Nomad
Posts: 1171
Registered: 3-28-2009
Location: San Diego, Ca.
Member Is Offline
Mood: Fish tacos and Tecate
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| Quote: | Originally posted by rjlaszlo
There are several ways to make a taco, and a subdivision. If you buy one of my lots, I'll show you how it's done. Thanks, Robert
Great analogy. All the real estate transactions (5) I've ever done have been very simple and flexible (like making a taco).
You Nomads are so uptight!
[Edited on 2-3-2010 by Curt63] |
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Donjulio
Nomad
Posts: 376
Registered: 5-19-2009
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Curt63
| Quote: | Originally posted by rjlaszlo
There are several ways to make a taco, and a subdivision. If you buy one of my lots, I'll show you how it's done. Thanks, Robert
Great analogy. All the real estate transactions (5) I've ever done have been very simple and flexible (like making a taco).
You Nomads are so uptight!
[Edited on 2-3-2010 by Curt63] |
Real estate transactions are simple if they are legal. But when you start trying to dance around title and ownership issues its not so cut and dried.
Also its not a matter of being uptight anymore. I for one will continue to challenge this kind of stuff until we see people not getting ripped off or
at least till people have a better understanding of what they are getting into.
The real estate problems have got to stop and it has to start with the real estate people. We collectively have a responsibility to educate and
inform. First and foremost ourselves. And we have a responsibility to not promote or offer for sale properties that are not legal or can lead to major
problems down the road.
People in San Felipe have lost literally tens of millions of dollars on projects that are shut down or out of money. But guess what? Walk in their
sales office and someone is sitting there waiting to sell you a condo in a shell of a building and they are going to tell you, we have new financing
and the construction is starting again next month.
Lots of people don't realize that down here, if you buy a lot, or a condo or property and you give a 30% (common) deposit, that if the developer sells
that property (the whole project) to someone else before you have title, the new owner doesnt have to honor the contracts. How is that?
Uptight no! Advocate for doing it right, Yes! |
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Curt63
Super Nomad
Posts: 1171
Registered: 3-28-2009
Location: San Diego, Ca.
Member Is Offline
Mood: Fish tacos and Tecate
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I was trying to be sarcastic. Making a taco is an absurd analogy for purchasing beachfront land within 3 hours drive in a foreign country.
I agree with all your points and thanks.
As for me, a trailer on a land lease with minimal improvements looks pretty good. I've heard from many sources and my opinion is that you should never
purchase land or take anything to Mexico that you are not prepared to lose. But thats just my opinion.
Saludos
No worries
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Bajahowodd
Elite Nomad
Posts: 9274
Registered: 12-15-2008
Location: Disneyland Adjacent and anywhere in Baja
Member Is Offline
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Safety First
| Quote: | Originally posted by Curt63
I was trying to be sarcastic. Making a taco is an absurd analogy for purchasing beachfront land within 3 hours drive in a foreign country.
I agree with all your points and thanks.
As for me, a trailer on a land lease with minimal improvements looks pretty good. I've heard from many sources and my opinion is that you should never
purchase land or take anything to Mexico that you are not prepared to lose. But thats just my opinion.
Saludos |
I agree. And what that actually means would be different things for different people. I'm probably closer to the trailer on leased land idea than I'd
like to believe. On the other hand, the well-heeled can certainly afford to take a much greater risk.
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rjlaszlo
Junior Nomad
Posts: 27
Registered: 1-27-2010
Location: Camalu
Member Is Offline
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Property Rights, Fidos and Corporations
Hola,
Your right on all accounts.
Were doing a RV and trailer park, not a housing development. Our CCRs' allow only RVs and trailers up to 40' in length, and smaller structures
(storage) no larger than 144 sq ft eave to eave, and no higher than 8' at the center.
We offer possessions on the land, which is not a title, however the possession status will convert to Titulo once the Mexican Government normalizes
the land. There is a specific process for this, which we are following.
Even after the government accepts and normalizes the land, the individual possession holders can opt to either receive titles, or retain their
property in a possession status. If you want to spend the $ 6,000 for the Fido, pay $ 600 for the Titulo issuance and pay property taxes every year,
you can.
If you choose to continue holding the possession, you have zero fees due to the government, period, until which time you choose to execute your right
to obtain your title. We feel this is a very secure vehicle and it is currently used in several pending subdivisions, with many foreign investors
buying lots.
I would bet that most of the disasters you are mentioning involve projects that are either under capitalized, run by scam artists or completely and
totally break any and all zoning building and permit requirements.
The format we are following is and was used by other land owners in our area, last year, for a total lot allowance exceeding 1000 individual lots
becoming eligible for individual Titulos.
I appreciate your caution and detailed evaluations, however there are secure formats for property ownership, that protect both the buyer and seller,
and do not in any way, break or attempt to circumvent the constitution of Mexico. Thanks, Robert
| Quote: | Originally posted by Donjulio
| Quote: | Originally posted by Curt63
| Quote: | Originally posted by rjlaszlo
There are several ways to make a taco, and a subdivision. If you buy one of my lots, I'll show you how it's done. Thanks, Robert
Great analogy. All the real estate transactions (5) I've ever done have been very simple and flexible (like making a taco).
You Nomads are so uptight!
[Edited on 2-3-2010 by Curt63] |
Real estate transactions are simple if they are legal. But when you start trying to dance around title and ownership issues its not so cut and dried.
Also its not a matter of being uptight anymore. I for one will continue to challenge this kind of stuff until we see people not getting ripped off or
at least till people have a better understanding of what they are getting into.
The real estate problems have got to stop and it has to start with the real estate people. We collectively have a responsibility to educate and
inform. First and foremost ourselves. And we have a responsibility to not promote or offer for sale properties that are not legal or can lead to major
problems down the road.
People in San Felipe have lost literally tens of millions of dollars on projects that are shut down or out of money. But guess what? Walk in their
sales office and someone is sitting there waiting to sell you a condo in a shell of a building and they are going to tell you, we have new financing
and the construction is starting again next month.
Lots of people don't realize that down here, if you buy a lot, or a condo or property and you give a 30% (common) deposit, that if the developer sells
that property (the whole project) to someone else before you have title, the new owner doesnt have to honor the contracts. How is that?
Uptight no! Advocate for doing it right, Yes! |
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Donjulio
Nomad
Posts: 376
Registered: 5-19-2009
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by rjlaszlo
Hola,
Your right on all accounts.
Were doing a RV and trailer park, not a housing development. Our CCRs' allow only RVs and trailers up to 40' in length, and smaller structures
(storage) no larger than 144 sq ft eave to eave, and no higher than 8' at the center.
We offer possessions on the land, which is not a title, however the possession status will convert to Titulo once the Mexican Government normalizes
the land. There is a specific process for this, which we are following.
Even after the government accepts and normalizes the land, the individual possession holders can opt to either receive titles, or retain their
property in a possession status. If you want to spend the $ 6,000 for the Fido, pay $ 600 for the Titulo issuance and pay property taxes every year,
you can.
If you choose to continue holding the possession, you have zero fees due to the government, period, until which time you choose to execute your right
to obtain your title. We feel this is a very secure vehicle and it is currently used in several pending subdivisions, with many foreign investors
buying lots.
I would bet that most of the disasters you are mentioning involve projects that are either under capitalized, run by scam artists or completely and
totally break any and all zoning building and permit requirements.
The format we are following is and was used by other land owners in our area, last year, for a total lot allowance exceeding 1000 individual lots
becoming eligible for individual Titulos.
I appreciate your caution and detailed evaluations, however there are secure formats for property ownership, that protect both the buyer and seller,
and do not in any way, break or attempt to circumvent the constitution of Mexico. Thanks, Robert
| Quote: | Originally posted by Donjulio
| Quote: | Originally posted by Curt63
| Quote: | Originally posted by rjlaszlo
There are several ways to make a taco, and a subdivision. If you buy one of my lots, I'll show you how it's done. Thanks, Robert
Great analogy. All the real estate transactions (5) I've ever done have been very simple and flexible (like making a taco).
You Nomads are so uptight!
[Edited on 2-3-2010 by Curt63] |
Real estate transactions are simple if they are legal. But when you start trying to dance around title and ownership issues its not so cut and dried.
Also its not a matter of being uptight anymore. I for one will continue to challenge this kind of stuff until we see people not getting ripped off or
at least till people have a better understanding of what they are getting into.
The real estate problems have got to stop and it has to start with the real estate people. We collectively have a responsibility to educate and
inform. First and foremost ourselves. And we have a responsibility to not promote or offer for sale properties that are not legal or can lead to major
problems down the road.
People in San Felipe have lost literally tens of millions of dollars on projects that are shut down or out of money. But guess what? Walk in their
sales office and someone is sitting there waiting to sell you a condo in a shell of a building and they are going to tell you, we have new financing
and the construction is starting again next month.
Lots of people don't realize that down here, if you buy a lot, or a condo or property and you give a 30% (common) deposit, that if the developer sells
that property (the whole project) to someone else before you have title, the new owner doesnt have to honor the contracts. How is that?
Uptight no! Advocate for doing it right, Yes! |
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Man I don't know why you continue to evade this whole issue. Now we finally at least have the truth about what it is. But POSSESSION IS NOT OWNERSHIP
in Mexico for a foreigner. DID I MAKE THAT CLEAR ENOUGH? |
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rjlaszlo
Junior Nomad
Posts: 27
Registered: 1-27-2010
Location: Camalu
Member Is Offline
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Ownership
Hola,
I'm not evading an issue, nor am I accepting your narrow definition of ownership. If your comfortable with your standard, that's great! For
individuals and families who are looking for a secure affordable investment in beach front property, Paradise Cove is a viable option 3 hours from the
US border. Thanks, Robert
| Quote: | Originally posted by Donjulio
| Quote: | Originally posted by rjlaszlo
Hola,
Your right on all accounts.
Were doing a RV and trailer park, not a housing development. Our CCRs' allow only RVs and trailers up to 40' in length, and smaller structures
(storage) no larger than 144 sq ft eave to eave, and no higher than 8' at the center.
We offer possessions on the land, which is not a title, however the possession status will convert to Titulo once the Mexican Government normalizes
the land. There is a specific process for this, which we are following.
Even after the government accepts and normalizes the land, the individual possession holders can opt to either receive titles, or retain their
property in a possession status. If you want to spend the $ 6,000 for the Fido, pay $ 600 for the Titulo issuance and pay property taxes every year,
you can.
If you choose to continue holding the possession, you have zero fees due to the government, period, until which time you choose to execute your right
to obtain your title. We feel this is a very secure vehicle and it is currently used in several pending subdivisions, with many foreign investors
buying lots.
I would bet that most of the disasters you are mentioning involve projects that are either under capitalized, run by scam artists or completely and
totally break any and all zoning building and permit requirements.
The format we are following is and was used by other land owners in our area, last year, for a total lot allowance exceeding 1000 individual lots
becoming eligible for individual Titulos.
I appreciate your caution and detailed evaluations, however there are secure formats for property ownership, that protect both the buyer and seller,
and do not in any way, break or attempt to circumvent the constitution of Mexico. Thanks, Robert
| Quote: | Originally posted by Donjulio
| Quote: | Originally posted by Curt63
| Quote: | Originally posted by rjlaszlo
There are several ways to make a taco, and a subdivision. If you buy one of my lots, I'll show you how it's done. Thanks, Robert
Great analogy. All the real estate transactions (5) I've ever done have been very simple and flexible (like making a taco).
You Nomads are so uptight!
[Edited on 2-3-2010 by Curt63] |
Real estate transactions are simple if they are legal. But when you start trying to dance around title and ownership issues its not so cut and dried.
Also its not a matter of being uptight anymore. I for one will continue to challenge this kind of stuff until we see people not getting ripped off or
at least till people have a better understanding of what they are getting into.
The real estate problems have got to stop and it has to start with the real estate people. We collectively have a responsibility to educate and
inform. First and foremost ourselves. And we have a responsibility to not promote or offer for sale properties that are not legal or can lead to major
problems down the road.
People in San Felipe have lost literally tens of millions of dollars on projects that are shut down or out of money. But guess what? Walk in their
sales office and someone is sitting there waiting to sell you a condo in a shell of a building and they are going to tell you, we have new financing
and the construction is starting again next month.
Lots of people don't realize that down here, if you buy a lot, or a condo or property and you give a 30% (common) deposit, that if the developer sells
that property (the whole project) to someone else before you have title, the new owner doesnt have to honor the contracts. How is that?
Uptight no! Advocate for doing it right, Yes! |
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Man I don't know why you continue to evade this whole issue. Now we finally at least have the truth about what it is. But POSSESSION IS NOT OWNERSHIP
in Mexico for a foreigner. DID I MAKE THAT CLEAR ENOUGH? |
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irenemm
Senior Nomad
Posts: 623
Registered: 7-16-2009
Location: vicente guerrero, baja
Member Is Offline
Mood: relaxed
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Robert
don't tell people it is 3 hours from the states it is not
are you flying? you must.
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BajaGringo
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3922
Registered: 8-24-2006
Location: La Chorera
Member Is Offline
Mood: Let's have a BBQ!
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Well. if you cross at midnight you can make it in 3 hours. Little traffic that time of night...
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rjlaszlo
Junior Nomad
Posts: 27
Registered: 1-27-2010
Location: Camalu
Member Is Offline
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3 Hour Drive
I cross the border at 6;30 am, gas up in Rosarito or Ensenada, and am at the property by 10:00 am. I also drive 80 miles per hour. As posted by
another reader, crossing the border at night also speeds the journey along. I supposed you could say I'm flying, kind of sort of anyways. Thanks,
Robert.
| Quote: | Originally posted by irenemm
Robert
don't tell people it is 3 hours from the states it is not
are you flying? you must. |
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Udo
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6346
Registered: 4-26-2008
Location: Black Hills, SD/Ensenada/San Felipe
Member Is Offline
Mood: TEQUILA!
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Renting a beachfront palapa sounds pretty good and safe, right about now.
Udo
Youth is wasted on the young!
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rjlaszlo
Junior Nomad
Posts: 27
Registered: 1-27-2010
Location: Camalu
Member Is Offline
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Paradise Cove
Hola,
Our goals are to provide security, with the comfortable feel of a California beach front trailer park in the late 50s and 60s. I believe we have the
kind of price point which also makes Paradise Cove an affordable vacation opportunity for retirees and families alike.
| Quote: | Originally posted by udowinkler
Renting a beachfront palapa sounds pretty good and safe, right about now. |
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