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Author: Subject: How do you deal with a problem neighbor?
bajamigo
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[*] posted on 8-26-2010 at 02:11 PM


I'm not afraid to pee off the landlord, it's just that it wouldn't do any good. If I had the lease in my hand 90 miles north of here, this would have been a nonissue, and I'm sure some of the remedies you suggest would be available to me. In Mexico, a Pyhrric victory would come at a devastating cost. Call me stupid, but I value my friendship with my landlord more than a piece of my view. And I'm realistic enough to know that the idea of restoring a part of what was taken is DOA. So now I have to stand up and crane my neck to see the lights of Ensenada. Things could be a lot worse.



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[*] posted on 8-26-2010 at 09:55 PM


We have been on our land lease (on a handshake) for 15 years. We have outlasted every bad neighbor (3+) including the last one that attached his fence structure to our house to keep in his very sweet but constantly barking dog. The landlord did nothing as he was much in need of the revenue. I knew we could outlast him and we did. When he left he screwed the landlord to boot. It's too bad that this episode only served to lower my previously high opinion of my landlord.

But then again, we are still here. Bad neighbor probably reads this site. :yes::yes::yes::yes:
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bajamigo
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[*] posted on 8-27-2010 at 07:12 AM


Quote:
Originally posted by knuckles
It's too bad that this episode only served to lower my previously high opinion of my landlord.

:yes::yes::yes::yes:


That's the saddest part.:(




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DENNIS
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[*] posted on 8-27-2010 at 08:30 AM


Quote:
Originally posted by MsTerieus
I understand that things work differently in Mexico. I am not totally sure why Baja Amigo is afraid to pee off the landlord. Since the landlord is clearly in breach of the lease, why not at least withhold rent from him unless/until he rectifies the problem (and tell him you intend to do so)?


Hi MsT......
I hope I can give you some advice without fear that you will think I'm preaching to you.
I am aware of a couple of things about you: your profession and your ambitions to aquire property here in Mexico.
That said, these two things together can be a lethal [from a consumer standpoint] combination for you. I've seen it happen in the past, when a US trained attorney will bring his expertise to the Mexican real estate market.
In one instance, my lawyer friend took possession of a piece of expensive property, sidestepping the Fideocomiso and accepting Power Of Attorney as proof of, if not ownership, full control. He did this because he applied his American lawyer mindset to the issue and assumed he was in a safe position.
He wasn't. He lost it all. His hold on the land didn't even qualify him to put up a fight.
The dangerous position you are in, that you fully understand the laws of another world, will put you at risk to approach the Mexican market with an open mind and, you and your professional type, of all people, should retain a GOOD Mexican attorney to relieve you of the dangers you pose to yourself.

I say all of this with heartfelt concern for your success in attaining your goals and dreams.
Be careful out there.


Oh, yeah...sorry for the hijack. Now, back to our regularly scheduled program.




[Edited on 8-27-2010 by DENNIS]
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[*] posted on 8-27-2010 at 11:11 AM


Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS

In one instance, my lawyer friend took possession of a piece of expensive property, sidestepping the Fideocomiso and accepting Power Of Attorney as proof of, if not ownership, full control. He did this because he applied his American lawyer mindset to the issue and assumed he was in a safe position.
He wasn't. He lost it all. His hold on the land didn't even qualify him to put up a fight.


Interesting as we know a number of people who are "buying" ejido property with just holding the title paper and a power of attorney.
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DENNIS
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[*] posted on 8-27-2010 at 11:30 AM


Quote:
Originally posted by DianaT

Interesting as we know a number of people who are "buying" ejido property with just holding the title paper and a power of attorney.



Is this what's happening in Asunción??
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[*] posted on 8-27-2010 at 01:52 PM


Quote:
Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS
Hi MsT......
I hope I can give you some advice without fear that you will think I'm preaching to you.
I am aware of a couple of things about you: your profession and your ambitions to aquire property here in Mexico.
That said, these two things together can be a lethal [from a consumer standpoint] combination for you. I've seen it happen in the past, when a US trained attorney will bring his expertise to the Mexican real estate market. ...


Hi, Dennis. Thanks for your concern. No need for it, though; IMO, any good attorney is smart enough to know what he DOES NOT know, and I am in that group. I would never buy property in Mexico without the advice of a (hopefully competent) local real estate attorney attorney retained to represent my interests.

Sorry for the re-hijack ...




[Edited on 8-27-2010 by DENNIS]
:)

[Edited on 8-27-2010 by MsTerieus]
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gnukid
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[*] posted on 8-27-2010 at 02:17 PM


Quote:
Quote:
Originally posted by MsTerieus
Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS
Hi MsT......
I hope I can give you some advice without fear that you will think I'm preaching to you.
I am aware of a couple of things about you: your profession and your ambitions to aquire property here in Mexico.
That said, these two things together can be a lethal [from a consumer standpoint] combination for you. I've seen it happen in the past, when a US trained attorney will bring his expertise to the Mexican real estate market. ...


Hi, Dennis. Thanks for your concern. No need for it, though; IMO, any good attorney is smart enough to know what he DOES NOT know, and I am in that group. I would never buy property in Mexico without the advice of a (hopefully competent) local real estate attorney attorney retained to represent my interests.

Sorry for the re-hijack ...




[Edited on 8-27-2010 by DENNIS]
:)

[Edited on 8-27-2010 by MsTerieus]


Another mistaken assumption... trusting a lawyer.
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bajamigo
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[*] posted on 8-27-2010 at 02:20 PM


I don't think this is a hijack. My recent "problem" and many of the issues brought up in this thread and many others in the past point to a single reality, one which we were aware of when we bought our home: buying a house or property in Mexico is ultimately an act of faith, maybe even a leap of faith.

The laws may be very clear, but their application is often highly subjective, even at times defying logic. And from what I've seen in Punta Banda, even a fideicomiso doesn't always insulate you from potential trouble. Granted, you sleep better with one, but it's not the ultimate protection. Our guiding principle in buying our house was, don't buy it unless you can afford to walk away from it.




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MsTerieus
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[*] posted on 8-27-2010 at 02:44 PM


Quote:
Originally posted by gnukid
Another mistaken assumption... trusting a lawyer.


YOU'RE the one who is "mistaken," Gnu. I never said I'd be "trusting" the lawyer. I would, however, get whatever help I could from her.
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MsTerieus
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[*] posted on 8-27-2010 at 02:47 PM


Quote:
Originally posted by bajamigo
I don't think this is a hijack. My recent "problem" and many of the issues brought up in this thread and many others in the past point to a single reality, one which we were aware of when we bought our home: buying a house or property in Mexico is ultimately an act of faith, maybe even a leap of faith.

The laws may be very clear, but their application is often highly subjective, even at times defying logic. And from what I've seen in Punta Banda, even a fideicomiso doesn't always insulate you from potential trouble. Granted, you sleep better with one, but it's not the ultimate protection. Our guiding principle in buying our house was, don't buy it unless you can afford to walk away from it.


I don't disagree with you, Amigo. However, your unfortunate situation is one more example of why, IMHO, it is particularly dangerous to buy on leased land. In such a case, EVEN if the laws are clear, and EVEN if there is a good case to make against the violator, the lessor lacks standing to pursue any remedy.
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bajamigo
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[*] posted on 8-27-2010 at 02:54 PM


Quote:
Originally posted by MsTerieus
Quote:
Originally posted by bajamigo
I don't think this is a hijack. My recent "problem" and many of the issues brought up in this thread and many others in the past point to a single reality, one which we were aware of when we bought our home: buying a house or property in Mexico is ultimately an act of faith, maybe even a leap of faith.

The laws may be very clear, but their application is often highly subjective, even at times defying logic. And from what I've seen in Punta Banda, even a fideicomiso doesn't always insulate you from potential trouble. Granted, you sleep better with one, but it's not the ultimate protection. Our guiding principle in buying our house was, don't buy it unless you can afford to walk away from it.


I don't disagree with you, Amigo. However, your unfortunate situation is one more example of why, IMHO, it is particularly dangerous to buy on leased land. In such a case, EVEN if the laws are clear, and EVEN if there is a good case to make against the violator, the lessor lacks standing to pursue any remedy.


You're right, and I knew that from the get-go. At least in this area, people tend to shop the landlord as much as the property. The object is to pick one you think will afford you however many years you'll want to live on his land. Most of us down here are fully aware that you can't make the landlord "perform," because a lease is just that---it's not an enforceable contract.




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[*] posted on 8-27-2010 at 02:58 PM


Quote:
Originally posted by bajamigo
Most of us down here are fully aware that you can't make the landlord "perform," because a lease is just that---it's not an enforceable contract.


What are you talking about? Of COURSE a lease is an enforceable contract! (subject, of course, to any shenanigans of the local courts, judges, etc.) The problem is that you cannot go directly after the neighbor; you must go after your landlord and force HIM to go after the neighbor. You pointed out a good reason why such an action would not be wise, i.e., it would ruin your relationship with the landlord. The situation MIGHT be different if you could go after the neighbor instead.
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[*] posted on 8-27-2010 at 03:01 PM


" lex talionis" and more "lex talionis".:yes:
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bajamigo
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[*] posted on 8-27-2010 at 03:20 PM


Quote:
Originally posted by MsTerieus
Quote:
Originally posted by bajamigo
Most of us down here are fully aware that you can't make the landlord "perform," because a lease is just that---it's not an enforceable contract.


What are you talking about? Of COURSE a lease is an enforceable contract! (subject, of course, to any shenanigans of the local courts, judges, etc.)


The laws may be very clear, but their application is often highly subjective, even at times defying logic. Sorry about repeating myself.




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[*] posted on 8-27-2010 at 03:33 PM


The laws here are just as much a matter of who you know as what you know. When and if disputes sink to the last level of interpretation in DF, it's a matter of who gets there first with the most fun tickets. That's just the way it is.

See what I mean, MsT? Lots to learn...and unlearn.
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[*] posted on 8-27-2010 at 04:09 PM


Dennis to expand on that, I got into bad trouble one time and had friends help me, the reason I got out of the trouble is the prominent people opened doors for me.



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[*] posted on 8-27-2010 at 04:11 PM


Quote:
Originally posted by bajamigo
And from what I've seen in Punta Banda, even a fideicomiso doesn't always insulate you from potential trouble.


Please elaborate. What problems have you seen with land held within a fideicomiso?
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[*] posted on 8-27-2010 at 04:45 PM


Quote:
Originally posted by comitan
Dennis to expand on that, I got into bad trouble one time and had friends help me, the reason I got out of the trouble is the prominent people opened doors for me.



That's the way it is, Wiley. The Mexican way........and who you know. For a person to go onto business down here and not join the Chamber of Commerce or Rotary etc. is just plain self-induced isolation. Whoever wants to survive in this climate has to have some phone numbers handy and has to be willing to give as well as receive.
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DENNIS
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[*] posted on 8-27-2010 at 04:48 PM


Quote:
Originally posted by k-rico
Please elaborate. What problems have you seen with land held within a fideicomiso?

I think some of the owners out at Punta Banda who were dispossesed of their houses had Fideicomisos.




[Edited on 8-27-2010 by DENNIS]
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