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norte
Super Nomad
Posts: 1163
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GAG, I hope you can vote better than you can spell and write!
You seem to be spewing the radio line more than trying to understand history. A more efficient government is needed to be sure....but one that is
rooted in fact not emotion. There is a place for government in this country young man.
| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
| Quote: | Originally posted by JESSE
| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
| Quote: | Originally posted by JESSE
| Quote: | Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto
Rick Perry is going to be the nest president of this Country and you had better beleive it! |
Everyone around the world that wants the US to tank is betting he or another republican wins. I on the other hand would like to see the US back on its
feet, and thus the last thing you need is another republican dumb burro in the white house. |
So Obama is a finacial and political genius, huh? Oh lord, help us!!! |
He didn't create the mess, thats for sure. |
He was in the senate that came to power in '07 (well for a year then he statred running for prez.)... Once in power, he just poured gasoline onto the
fire... and that's not how you put out a fire.
Businesses create jobs, not government. Governemnt is supposed to provide conditions for business to prosper (so more people go to work and the
economy groes, more taxes are paid). This government tries to hurt buisness with its regulations and taxes.
Ronald Reagan inherited a far worse economy in 1981 created by Jimmy Carter (remember the 'misery index'?)... and in two years (working with the
democrats in charge of congress and speaking to the Americans) turned the mess around. Reagan didn't keep blaming the previous president like Obama
constantly does.) Reagan looked to the future always, and he loved America... we had the biggest peacetime growth of our economy and more jobs created
than ever in our history!
People, a free people and free of government oppression, are what make America great!   |
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mtgoat666
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| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
| Quote: | Originally posted by JESSE
| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
| Quote: | Originally posted by JESSE
| Quote: | Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto
Rick Perry is going to be the nest president of this Country and you had better beleive it! |
Everyone around the world that wants the US to tank is betting he or another republican wins. I on the other hand would like to see the US back on its
feet, and thus the last thing you need is another republican dumb burro in the white house. |
So Obama is a finacial and political genius, huh? Oh lord, help us!!! |
He didn't create the mess, thats for sure. |
He was in the senate that came to power in '07 (well for a year then he statred running for prez.)... Once in power, he just poured gasoline onto the
fire... and that's not how you put out a fire.
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dk: stimulus spending was meant to be gasoline for a fire that was sputtering due to housing crisis and bush actions that were extinguishing the fire.
the stimulus spending and govt spending are what has kept economy afloat during this period of stalled economy due to actions of el shrub.
good use of gasoline!
the economy will recover as soon as housing problems work themselves out. people (consumers) are till dealing with their housing problems,... it will
take time, taxes have nothing to do with housing resolution.
[Edited on 10-22-2011 by mtgoat666]
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JoeJustJoe
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Ken Cooke
| Quote: | Originally posted by JoeJustJoe
GOP hostility towards minorities has actually got worst since Obama got in the office. It's no wonder Blacks vote democrat 90 percent strong even
when there is a white democrat running. It's no wonder why Latinos vote almost 70 strong for democrats. |
@Joe - Why do Cuban-Americans vote primarily Rupublican? I know that many of the Cubans here were not all wealthy. As for African-American voters, I
get irritated by Republican logic to the point of turning off to their simplistic opinions and their world-view. To each his own.
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Ken this article below explains a little bit why Cuban-Americans vote Republican. Do give you a better answer I would probably have to answer it the
right way in the "OT" area.
But to briefly quote my Puerto Rican friend, and you have to remember the Cubans and Puerto Ricans really don't like each other very much. Some Puerto
Ricans feel the Cubans think they're too good, and some Cubans feel Puerto Ricans are low class to put it bluntly.
So according to my Puerto Rican friend he says Cubans vote Republicans because they think they are all rich. And he said, he never met a Cuban that
didn't say that they or their family use to be rich until Castro took it all away from them, and the Cubans were supposedly very bitter about that.
The thing is according to my friend, they all couldn't have been all rich in Cuba, and over here they don't have much, but they still act like they're
rich.
To put it nicer I would say many Cuban do pride themselves on education, hard work, upward mobility, sexual conservatism or so they claim, and Cubans
especially the older ones have a hatred towards Castro, or anything remotely or reminds them of Communism or socialism. Of course the younger Cubans
think a little differently, and some do vote democrat.
I have some Cuban friends, and the talk seems to be more about careers, money, and adult toys. With my Mexican-Family, especially with extended Latino
family first and second generation. We talk about family, not our jobs, unless it's about the kids, and then a little bragging goes on.
_____________________________________
Why Cuban Americans Vote Republican
PHOENIX (By Carlos Miller, Miami Beach 411) March 23, 2010 ― Probably because they did not like the communist regime in Cuba and identify with
the Republican party's strong anti-communist, pro-capitalist point of view.
To understand Miami Cuban politics, one must go back to the Bay of Pigs invasion, which some Miami Cubans will tell you that President John F. Kennedy
blundered.
read the rest here:
http://www.hispanic.cc/why_cubans_vote_republican.htm
[Edited on 10-22-2011 by JoeJustJoe]
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David K
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sanquintinsince73
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| Quote: | Originally posted by JoeJustJoe
| Quote: | Originally posted by Ken Cooke
| Quote: | Originally posted by JoeJustJoe
GOP hostility towards minorities has actually got worst since Obama got in the office. It's no wonder Blacks vote democrat 90 percent strong even
when there is a white democrat running. It's no wonder why Latinos vote almost 70 strong for democrats. |
@Joe - Why do Cuban-Americans vote primarily Rupublican? I know that many of the Cubans here were not all wealthy. As for African-American voters, I
get irritated by Republican logic to the point of turning off to their simplistic opinions and their world-view. To each his own.
|
Ken this article below explains a little bit why Cuban-Americans vote Republican. Do give you a better answer I would probably have to answer it the
right way in the "OT" area.
But to briefly quote my Puerto Rican friend, and you have to remember the Cubans and Puerto Ricans really don't like each other very much. Some Puerto
Ricans feel the Cubans think they're too good, and some Cubans feel Puerto Ricans are low class to put it bluntly.
So according to my Puerto Rican friend he says Cubans vote Republicans because they think they are all rich. And he said, he never met a Cuban that
didn't say that they or their family use to be rich until Castro took it all away from them, and the Cubans were very bitter about that. The thing is
according to my friend, they all couldn't have been all rich in Cuba, and over here they don't have much, but they still act like they're rich.
To put it nicer I would say many Cuban do pride themselves on education, hard work, upward mobility, sexual conservatism or so they claim, and Cubans
especially the older ones have a hatred towards Castro, or anything remotely or reminds them of Communism or socialism. Of course the younger Cubans
think a little differently, and some do vote democrat.
_____________________________________
Why Cuban Americans Vote Republican
PHOENIX (By Carlos Miller, Miami Beach 411) March 23, 2010 ― Probably because they did not like the communist regime in Cuba and identify with
the Republican party's strong anti-communist, pro-capitalist point of view.
To understand Miami Cuban politics, one must go back to the Bay of Pigs invasion, which some Miami Cubans will tell you that President John F. Kennedy
blundered.
read the rest here:
http://www.hispanic.cc/why_cubans_vote_republican.htm |
But to briefly quote my Puerto Rican friend, and you have to remember the Cubans and Puerto Ricans really don't like each other very much. Some Puerto
Ricans feel the Cubans think they're too good, and some Cubans feel Puerto Ricans are low class to put it bluntly.
Reminded me of a joke we had in L.A........
If you fill the L.A. coliseum to capacity (about 80K) and you place a Cuban at one end zone and a PuertoRican at the opposite end zone, they'll find
each other and start arguing.
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Barry A.
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Norte---------Of course we need a strong "government", but it is terribly bloated now, and that is not working out too well for us, or the business
community (and I am a retired Fed. employee). There is very limited money, if you hadn't noticed----------
David K has it essentially right, historically---------despite the small spelling errors, many of which I make too.
Love the Puerto Rican vs Cuban joke---------sooooo true. (Oh my gawd, I am sounding racist !?!?!?!?!).
By the way, 28 Countries now use the "flat tax", most of them in eastern Europe where they only too well know the downside of Socialism and
Communism---------they learned their lesson--- some here did not (reads: most Democrats, and some Republicans). Their economies are beginning to
flourish-------our's is stagnant------ Duh, maybe flat taxes work????????
Of course they do, and Steve Forbes was right all along.
Barry
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norte
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go it right? read what Bloomburg (respected Conservative reporting) said in 2009. I guess you will next say that our current economy is worse?
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Barry A.
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| Quote: | Originally posted by norte
go it right? read what Bloomburg (respected Conservative reporting) said in 2009. I guess you will next say that our current economy is worse?
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Lots of different opinions, depending on who you read or talk to-----and all have parts of the complicated mess right, and some wrong. There is
plenty of blame to go around, that is for sure, and we will never know the whole story completely-------which almost always is the case. Mistakes
were made, the economy collasped, but the present Administration has done precious little to help any recovery--------and the evidence of THAT is all
about us. We need somebody with business experience, apparently, to make the right decisions and get the business cycle going strong again-----taxes
are a huge part of that----------I do not believe the Keynesian economics work very well, and the Obama team has worshipped at the feet of Keynesians
for two long. It is (past) time to start using some of Art Laffer's 'supply-side' ideas and get things moving again, the housing Market aside----that
will take a lot longer, for sure, IMO. I try and never forget that 90% of the folks are working, and that is a huge Market.
Barry
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David K
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The only things I spell correctly (unless a make a typo) are Baja places!
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Ken Cooke
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| Quote: | Originally posted by JoeJustJoe
_____________________________________
Why Cuban Americans Vote Republican
PHOENIX (By Carlos Miller, Miami Beach 411) March 23, 2010 ― Probably because they did not like the communist regime in Cuba and identify with
the Republican party's strong anti-communist, pro-capitalist point of view.
To understand Miami Cuban politics, one must go back to the Bay of Pigs invasion, which some Miami Cubans will tell you that President John F. Kennedy
blundered.
read the rest here:
http://www.hispanic.cc/why_cubans_vote_republican.htm
[Edited on 10-22-2011 by JoeJustJoe] |
Thanks for the article. I have friends from many different parts of Latin America, and country by country - region by region, their views differ
dramatically. Makes me want to do more research into this phenomenon. But, thanks for the insight.
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Cypress
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Anybody ever heard of "The Bay of Pigs"? Bay of what? Oops! Probably not.
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MrBillM
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Some said that ............
JFK was convicted and Sentenced 11-22-63 for the deaths at The Bay of Pigs.
We'll never know, but it was a common thought at the time despite the Warren Whitewash.
If they'd known what was coming ( from LBJ ) they might have reconsidered the whole business.
But, that's life as they say. The future is uncertain.
Eat Dessert first.
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Cypress
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JFK promised US air support for the Bay of Pigs invasion. He didn't do as promised. And the US? The US is still paying the price for that lie.
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Iflyfish
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Here find an excellent analysis of the problems associated with illegal immigration. The issue is not just that we have people crossing our borders
illegally or not returning after their visa’s expire, we have over 12,000,000 people now living illegally in the USofA.
http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec..HTML%20
The most recent research by the Pew Memorial Trust finds that illegal immigration is down sharply.
http://blogs.ajc.com/jay-bookman-blog/2010/09/02/illegal-imm...
Deportations have increased significantly
http://www.naplesnews.com/news/2011/apr/23/ICE-deportations-...
It is clear to this writer that a perfect storm is now on us with high unemployment and a political system awash in money with little incentive to
address the real underlying structural problems of the boom and bust US economy. Immigrants are always targeted in these circumstances as people look
for someone to blame. The US has a very long history of this. In saying this I do not ignore the fact that illegal immigration is a real problem. I
just think that reproductive rights, lowering taxes, deregulating every industry in our country, criminal justice and the support of the military
industrial complex are red herrings dragged before us each election cycle.
The real underlying problem as I see it is that the governing institutions of this nation are wholly owned subsidiaries of Corporations. The only way
I see to address this very real structural problem is to take back the PUBLIC AIRWAVES and make illegal private funding of political advertising.
Require Corporate owned Media Enterprises to provide free time to all political candidates to address the issues of concern to the people of this
country. The Air Waves of our nation are OWNED by us, the people, the Corporations pay us for the use of these airwaves and we have a right and
responsibility to regulate them. We have a right to define what they can and cannot do.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QYvcCfNmiS8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSPloedpwWk
Until or unless we take back our airwaves and their impact on electoral politics we will not see any changes in the way we are now governed. It is
clear that Congress, who controls the way public policy is made, is now so awash with special interest money that the public interest is not the same
interest as those who we have elected to govern us. Examples are that a majority of Americans favor rolling back the tax cuts that have been given to
the richest 1% of the population who now control over 45% of all income in this country. Yet Congress cannot pass laws that require a more fair
taxation of these people because nearly all of one political party has signed an agreement that they will NEVER sign a bill that increases taxes.
Further NEITHER political party has taken the necessary step of changing the filibuster rule of the Senate, which now requires that 60 votes be
required to pass any legislation, the Constitution calls for a simple 51 majority vote. The President can propose legislation but Congress must pass
that legislation.
My point is that though illegal immigration is a real problem, the focus on that problem excludes focus on the underlying structural problems that
have created a year round political campaign in which elected officials must each day accumulate x Millions of Dollars for their and their political
parties campaign war chests and ALL VOTES are based solely upon political considerations, the real interests of the people be damned.
I believe that the legitimate grievances of the public, whose real earnings have decreased over the past thirty years, whose government does not
reflect their very real needs, is being expressed by both the Tea Party and the Occupy Wall Street Movement, who have way more in common than they
realize, except that the Corporate Media, FOX etc. have defined the issues of the Tea Party to be aligned with the Republican Party.
In my view real progress is being made on illegal immigration issues, the economy and foreign policy. It will take at least six years more for us to
come out of this recession and even then we will have chronic unemployment. It is in the interest of both Corporate Media and elected Politicians to
keep things as they are, for the money to keep flowing into political campaigns and for the public to be distracted by red herrings.
Iflyfish
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Barry A.
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Fish--------
How is taxing the rich a greater % "fair"????
If the right policies were inacted, we could come out of this recession like a rocket------but so far, it isn't happening.
I can't remember the rest of what you said----------------
Barry
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MrBillM
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All of That Red Herring Business
Sounds Fishy to me.
Who be WE ? Maybe Thee, but not Me.
On virtually any important (and most trivial) Political Questions, the split is within a few points of 50-50.
Including the B.O./McNut Election.
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Iflyfish
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Barry A:
"How is taxing the rich a greater % "fair"????"
A very good question. Here is an answer in 2 minutes and 15 seconds.
http://tinyurl.com/3hbr8bh
"If the right policies were inacted, we could come out of this recession like a rocket------but so far, it isn't happening."
There is no easy fix to these problems. We have been lowering taxes and deregulating banks, financial and investment corporations for years and we are
experiencing the affect of the greatest boom/bust since the great depression and the since the government is the stimulator of last resort and its
resources have been used to bail out those very corporations that caused the crisis and they are sitting on that money there is very little that can
be done to directly stimulate the economy. Home ownership and borowing for consumption have been the engines that have driven the economy for a very
long time. The housing bubble burst and the values of those assets have hit extreme lows and the home owner/income earner/worker has picked up the tab
via their devalued homes, unemployment and lack of funds to spend on consumer homes/consumer goods etc. that are the engine of the economy. No
customers, no business.
It takes time for any growth in consumption to come back after a recession and this is a very serious one. There is no quick fix.
Congress is paralysed due to political/economic interests of the legislators. There is no bi-partisan capacity in the institution now since Newt
Gingrich got the House Republicans to vote as a block and Grover Norquist got all Republicans in the House to sign pledges to NEVER sign a bill that
increased taxes. The Senate is in gridlock due to it's rule, that either party could change, that now requires a 60 vote super majority for ANY
legislation to pass. Therefore any meaningful stimulus package that might be passed is not able go move into law. In addition each member of the
legislature must be bound to huge contributors in order to fund their multi million re-election campaigns. The job of a Congressman now is to generate
revenue on a 24/7 basis and the bigger the constituant the more beholding they are to them. The Supreme Court ruled last year that Corporations
(which have the same rights as individual human beings) have the right to UNLIMITED campaign contributions and funding of PACS.
"I can't remember the rest of what you said----------------"
The rest of what I said was it is necessary to take the money out of politics and the best way to do this is to require Media Corporations to provide
free time to politicians during SHORT election periods, i.e. 2 months, and make it illegal for politicians to PURCHASE airtime. The PUBLIC OWNS the
airwaves and could make this happen by changing an FCC rule. Most political money is spent on electioneering and media buying. Corporate Media would
oppose this hanner and tong as political advertising is a major source of revenue. Good Republicans like Buddy Rhoemer cannot even get in one of the
Republican debates and yet he is the ONLY Republican who is directly addressing these issues.
http://www.buddyroemer.com/
I am not advocating a vote for Buddy Roemer, I personally think Obama is doing a good job, given he is hamstrung by Congress. My point is that a very
reasonable, electable Republican is still an unknown to most of the electorate because he only accepts $100 donations from Individuals. He doesn't
stand the chance of a snowball in hell of even being heard the way the system works now. If you are a Republican, particularly a Conservative
Republican, you aught to listen to this guy. You will find much you like. It is a shame that his voice is not being heard.
I am sorry for my verbosity, I simply do not know how to say what I need to say in a 20 second sound bite, which is what now passes for political
debate.
Iflyfish
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Iflyfish
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MrBillM says
"On virtually any important (and most trivial) Political Questions, the split is within a few points of 50-50."
The issues have been framed in such a way that they bifurcate and create gridlock and that is to the advantage of the Republican Party, who is now
nominally the minority party but actually works as the majority given the 60 vote Super Majority vote required in the Senate. The Constitution defined
a simple majority rule, a 51 vote majority. Paralysis, as it exists, benefits the Republicans as it makes Obama appear ineffective and weak.
In 2010 Mitch McConnell, the Republican Leader in the Senate stated "my
single most important job is to defeat President Obama in 2012”. His job isn't to find solutions to the very real problems of the economy and
unemployment, home mortgage default, a workable national health care plan; it is to have Obama be a one term President and the way to do that is to
say "No". We should fire any politician that says his job is to defeat the other party’s candidate. Their job is to govern effectively and serve the
people. Their job is not to fundraise and every day and be running for office, their job is to fashion debate, negotiate and formulate solutions to
the problems facing our country.
The Corporate Press has generated a narrative that focuses on conflict. Conflict is good business. Drama is what sells "news". The Corporate Media
decides what is "news". The narrative is developed with the goal of capturing the largest audience. This is accomplished by providing entertainment,
which has become "news" Witness FOX and the blurring between "news" and opinion, ditto for MSNBC. "News" is entertainment and a good Republican, with
good ideas, like Buddy Roemer http://www.buddyroemer.com/ can get no airtime because he both does not fit in this Corporate Media narrative and is a threat to their source of
revenue.
I actually don’t think that the public is split 50/50. A majority of Americans believe that government has a legitimate role to play. A majority of
Americans like Social Security and Medicare and will fight to save it. A majority of Americans are sick and tired of gridlock in Congress and now give
Congress a 12% approval rating. A majority of Americans feel screwed by the Tarp bailout, their decreased incomes over the last 30 years, their belief
that we have squandered our resources on futile wars. Most Americans believe that the obscene bonuses paid to the very Corporate Executives in Banks
and Wall Street who nearly tanked this economy is unfair. A majority of Americans believe that the rich should pay their fair share for the goods and
services they receive from public infrastructure. Most Americans agree that there is too much money in Politics and that Congress is corrupt and
broken. I believe that these issues unite what is now seen as the right and the left. Why are these issues not the very meat of our political
discourse? Why are not these problems the ones that are front and center in Congress? Instead we get discussions of Religion, Reproductive Rights,
Illegal Immigration (which is where this discussion started), who is “stronger”,
appears more Presidential” “has more voter appeal”, “can woe the Religious Right”, “be strong on defense” “who won the last debate”, “who one upped
the other Candidate” “who is the front runner”.
Thanks for weighing in on this Bill. I apologize for my verbosity. I have yet to master the simple sentence.
Iflyfish
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mtgoat666
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The fact of the matter is that the American economy isn’t working for average Americans, and hasn’t been for some time
good observation by Matthew Yglesias:
| Quote: |
The basic economic premise of modern American liberalism, as I understand it, is that with appropriate regulation and taxation a market economy can be
made broadly beneficial to the overwhelming majority of citizens. This stands in contrast to the pure capitalist view that a rising tide will
inevitably lift all boats, and to the radical claim that market economies are inherently immiserating.
The liberal view is, I think, correct. But it’s clear that for the 20 years between 1980 and 2000 what was possible in theory wasn’t necessarily
happening in practice, and for the past decade it hasn’t been working at all. The story is familiar, but worth repeating. We’re seeing not just
growing inequality, but actually falling wages and incomes at the median. People are outraged—and rightly so—that the economy and economic
policymakers are failing them.
...
The fact of the matter is that the American economy isn’t working for average Americans, and hasn’t been for some time. Meanwhile, the corporate
executive class has gotten quite adept at standing in solidarity against effective regulation of the financial system, against solutions to our
environmental problems, and against progressive taxes. The time is right for people who aren’t happy about that to stand up and be heard.
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read whole opinion at: http://www.tnr.com/article/politics/96499/occupy-wall-street...
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Barry A.
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Excellent replys from both Fish and Goat, and I agree with all the "dots" that Robert Reich identifies, but what I don't agree with is his
"connection" of those dots---------they do not track, IMO.
I listen to Robert Reisch daily on the LARRY KUDLOW SHOW, a weekday 1 hour business and politics show at 4pm to 5pm Pacific on CNBC, and he has yet to
convince me of his premises, in fact quite the contrary he causes me to move further to the "right" in horror at what he is presenting as "the truth"
and what it all means..
I would suggest that anyone who is truly interested in this subject watch the Larry Kudlow show, which presents both sides of the issues, and then
come to your own conclusions.
I can't speak for others, and I am not a "fat cat", however for the past 40 years I have been investing 30% of my income into the Stock Market (no
bonds) and I now am living the so-called "American Dream" and have been for some 15 years, so I know first hand that the "system" does work, and works
for me and my grown kids on a daily basis. You just have to participate, like Suzy Orman says, and pay attention, and you too can reap the benefits
of Capitalism like the "fat cats" do.
Many of the 'points' made by Fish are valid, but his conclusions as to why bad things are happening to the "middle class" are speculative and I just
can't agree with his (and Robert Reich's) logic, from my perspective.
I try to listen to all sides, including the frustrating MSNBC point of view & the PBS news and commentary every morning, and then listen and read
the analysis of those persons I trust, and have trusted for a long time (Thomas Sowell, Art Laffer, Larry Kudlow, Charles Krouthammer, Newt Gingrich,
Dick Morris, and host of others) and come to my own conclusions tempered by my own experience over the years. Personal experience trumps all, at
least for me it does.
I am thoroughly dismayed and angry at the way the present Administration is handling things, with a few exceptions, and support the idea that the main
thrust of the Republican's should be to un-seat Obama and especially his team, and get some experienced and more moderate center-right folks in there
to run the ship and get us back on course---------I am convinced that we have drifted into waters that can only lead to our demise (ala Europe) if
allowed to continue, and we are never going to solve our problems if we continue in the present direction---------the present policies (most of them)
just make no sense to me.
The most scary guy of all is Paul Krugman of the New York Times-------------how anybody can follow his line of "logic" is beyond me, and the fact that
he is still given an audience proves to me that we have some real "radicals" giving voice to what I consider nutty solutions to our present problems,
and that have no clue as to how a Capitalist system works in bringing relative prosperity to the chaotic primitive world we live in.
I thank both Fish and Goat for their respectful responses, but think that we should 'agree to disagree', as usual.
Barry
ps Mr. Fish---------I listened to the the speech by Buddy Roemer in the link you provided above, and you are right, he is a good man with a lot of
great ideas. Thank you for providing that. Barry
[Edited on 10-23-2011 by Barry A.]
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