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watizname
Senior Nomad
Posts: 772
Registered: 8-7-2009
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Hey goat, You conserve it, and I'll use your share too. OK? Thats what's going to happen between the US and the rest of the world. Do you really
think China is going to follow our conservation methods, when they get cranking full speed ahead? They're already manuvering for the Canadian oil
that we Won't get because of NOT building a pipeline that could be built around the Ogalala.
I yam what I yam and that\'s all what I yam.
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SFandH
Elite Nomad
Posts: 7084
Registered: 8-5-2011
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| Quote: | Originally posted by watizname
They're already manuvering for the Canadian oil that we Won't get because of NOT building a pipeline that could be built around the Ogalala. |
From what I've read it sounds like we already have the Canadian oil, we are their only customer. The Keystone XL pipeline, which I believe will be
built, will extend the pipeline from the American midwest to the Gulf coast where it can be easily sold to other countries. The US is in the catbird's
seat now.
As far as "drill baby drill" I think that is the exact wrong thing to do. The oil the US has in the ground now is a capital asset that will appreciate
dramatically as sources in other parts of the world run dry and/or become more expensive to extract.
I'm all for keeping it in the ground and using up the middle eastern oil as fast as we can. That will ensure American prosperity for the rest of the
century and force the Saudis and Iranians to go back to selling date figs, incense, carpets, and camel dung sooner.
Just some thoughts.
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mtgoat666
Select Nomad
Posts: 18100
Registered: 9-16-2006
Location: San Diego
Member Is Offline
Mood: Hot n spicy
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| Quote: | Originally posted by SFandH
| Quote: | Originally posted by watizname
They're already manuvering for the Canadian oil that we Won't get because of NOT building a pipeline that could be built around the Ogalala. |
From what I've read it sounds like we already have the Canadian oil, we are their only customer. The Keystone XL pipeline, which I believe will be
built, will extend the pipeline from the American midwest to the Gulf coast where it can be easily sold to other countries. The US is in the catbird's
seat now.
As far as "drill baby drill" I think that is the exact wrong thing to do. The oil the US has in the ground now is a capital asset that will appreciate
dramatically as sources in other parts of the world run dry and/or become more expensive to extract.
I'm all for keeping it in the ground and using up the middle eastern oil as fast as we can. That will ensure American prosperity for the rest of the
century and force the Saudis and Iranians to go back to selling date figs, incense, carpets, and camel dung sooner.
Just some thoughts. |
the USA relies on fossil fuel to succeed -- the fossil fuel business model is unsustainable. someday the oil will run out, you should start planning
now for that eventuality. at present, only the liberals are seeking a solution to reliance on finite supply of fossil fuel. the GOP policy is
"drill, baby, drill,... and when it's gone we will figure it out then"
all great civilizations eventually fall. the USA will be no different. with GOP setting energy policy, i see fall sooner than later
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64739
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
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Mood: Have Baja Fever
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The Original Topic, El Volcan... but it is still there!
A half mile upstream from where the road crosses Arroyo el Volcan (misnamed 'Zamora' on topo maps) is the actual 'EL VOLCAN' a rare cold water geyser
that is said to erupt once a month for several minutes:
BajaCat on top
Here is looking down from the top of the cliff on the east side of the arroyo. El Volcan is in the arroyo, along the west cliff.
The next two are video clips of the bubbling water on top of the dome... click on the image to play the video (with sound):
Again, 'El Volcan' is located 1/2 mile south/ upstream of the road crossing... which is 4 miles from El Marmol or 13 miles from Hwy. 1 (between Kms.
148 & 149).
La Olvidada sign near the Onyx schoolhouse of El Marmol:
La Olvidada shown as La Olividada (an extra i)
[Edited on 3-9-2012 by David K]
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mtgoat666
Select Nomad
Posts: 18100
Registered: 9-16-2006
Location: San Diego
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Mood: Hot n spicy
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| Quote: | Originally posted by soulpatch
If we were not spending hundreds of millions of dollars a day to subsidize oil in the middle east with soldiers and weaponry we could probably afford
to pay at the pump oil's true cost. |
re oil war spending abroad, some people would rather drive gas hogs than fund their local schools...
of course dumb people probably don't want a world with smarter children 
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captkw
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3850
Registered: 10-19-2010
Location: el charro b.c.s.
Member Is Offline
Mood: new dog/missing the old 1
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DURRELLIIIROBERT
HOLA,ummmm TMI Too much info,,,now ,I have a headache !! K&T
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elbeau
Nomad
Posts: 256
Registered: 3-2-2011
Location: Austin, TX
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Wilderone: You are AWESOME!!!!!!!!!
You have no idea what it meant to me to see your Rancho Elbeau sign. Thank you, thank you, thank you!!!!!!!!!!! That was SOOO cool.
Regarding the new photos of the area:
AAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHRRRRRRAAAAARRRAAGGGGGHARRRRAAAAGGHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!
NONONONONONONONONONONONONONONOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!
Please!!!!NO!!!!!!!NO!!!!!!!NO!!!!!!!!!!....OH PLEASE NO!!!!!!!!!!
AAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHRRRRRRAAAAARRRAAGGGGGHARRRRAAAAGGHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ok....I'm taking a deep breath now....gathering oxygen....
AAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHRRRRRRAAAAARRRAAGGGGGHARRRRAAAAGGHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!
With how much effort I spent reading and studying about that site from a distance last year, it is predictably heartbreaking for me to see what
they're doing in the arroyo, and there's a lot of things that they are messing with in the spot they're doing that work.
There may not be a lost mission there, but there are small cave shelters with ancient rock art right where they are digging. There have been several
artifacts found by nomads right there...and somewhere around one of the pools is a set of stairs carved into the rocks going down to the water that is
presumably very old.
Now, one thing I learned quickly when I started reading up on archaeology in Baja is that archaeological preservation is not always the #1 priority of
the various people involved in making decisions about land use...but there is one consideration that should make it on the radar that nobody is
considering:
One thing we learned from the trips that were made to the arroyo last year is that there are significant amounts of underground water flowing just
beneath the sands of the arroyo. This water is exposed in many places and at those places there is ample evidence that local fauna use it as a
primary water source. We also know from modern and historic accounts that the area is, and always has been, a refuge for endangered Peninsular Big
Horn Sheep.
Now, I don't have any geological evidence showing where the source of the water is that is flowing under the sands beneath El Volcan, but I think that
the first obvious assumption that should be made is that the water originates at the pools surrounding El Volcan...the same pools they are sucking
water out of for the mining operation.
Now, please look at the photo of the pool they are sucking water out of:
| Quote: | Originally posted by wilderone
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It's easy to see in the photo that they have significantly lowered the water level of at least this lower pool, if not the whole El Volcan feature
(including the cold-water geyser).
What effect is this having on the water that the local wildlife count on being under the sands of the arroyo?
Geologists tell us that the water seepage we see now at El Volcan has been going on for millions of years and is why the Onyx mine of El Marmol exists
at all. That same process of onyx formation, which requires a very rare set of geological conditions, continues to take place at El Volcan. What
effect does lowering the water table and redirecting the new water into a mining operation have on the onyx formation process. Onyx formation is a
process of forming crystaline structures on top of other crystaline structures. If the seepage of water stops for long enough for other sediments to
even lightly cover the onyx layers, will onyx formation continue later on when the seepage starts again? I really don't know.
...but like I said, my biggest concern is because I believe they have cut off the biggest water source for an endangered species. That's messed up.
And before someone points out the obvious...yes, I know that Peninsular Big Horn are still hunted in Baja, but whether or not we have to appeal to the
government's environmental side or to their interests in commercial hunting, I would REALLY like someone who does oversight of mining operations to
take a look and see what effect that operation is having on the water in the arroyo...any nomads know who I can call? You know from experience that
I'm crazy enough to take this on and push them for some results 
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woody with a view
PITA Nomad
Posts: 15939
Registered: 11-8-2004
Location: Looking at the Coronado Islands
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Mood: Everchangin'
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the sheep will move on or they will perish. it seems sad when you are looking through the computer screen, but they are tough critters.
and the world spins.....
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baitcast
Super Nomad
Posts: 1785
Registered: 8-31-2003
Location: kingman AZ.
Member Is Offline
Mood: good
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I guess I could give up some of this stuff but what the hell!
bama calls oil a "fuel of the past" this is a partial list of 144 out of 6000 items made from oil!!!!!!!!!!........... partial list of products made
from Petroleum (144 of 6000 items)
One 42-gallon barrel of oil creates 19.4 gallons of gasoline. The rest (over half) is used to make things like:
Solvents
Diesel fuel
Motor Oil
Bearing Grease
Ink
Floor Wax
Ballpoint Pens
Football Cleats
Upholstery
Sweaters
Boats
Insecticides
Bicycle Tires
Sports Car Bodies
Nail Polish
Fishing lures
Dresses
Tires
Golf Bags
Perfumes
Cassettes
Dishwasher parts
Tool Boxes
Shoe Polish
Motorcycle Helmet
Caulking
Petroleum Jelly
Transparent Tape
CD Player
Faucet Washers
Antiseptics
Clothesline
Curtains
Food Preservatives
Basketballs
Soap
Vitamin Capsules
Antihistamines
Purses
Shoes
Dashboards
Cortisone
Deodorant
Footballs
Putty
Dyes
Panty Hose
Refrigerant
Percolators
Life Jackets
Rubbing Alcohol
Linings
Skis
TV Cabinets
Shag Rugs
Electrician's Tape
Tool Racks
Car Battery Cases
Epoxy
Paint
Mops
Slacks
Insect Repellent
Oil Filters
Umbrellas
Yarn
Fertilizers
Hair Coloring
Roofing
Toilet Seats
Fishing Rods
Lipstick
Denture Adhesive
Linoleum
Ice Cube Trays
Synthetic Rubber
Speakers
Plastic Wood
Electric Blankets
Glycerin
Tennis Rackets
Rubber Cement
Fishing Boots
Dice
Nylon Rope
Candles
Trash Bags
House Paint
Water Pipes
Hand Lotion
Roller Skates
Surf Boards
Shampoo
Wheels
Paint Rollers
Shower Curtains
Guitar Strings
Luggage
Aspirin
Safety Glasses
Antifreeze
Football Helmets
Awnings
Eyeglasses
Clothes
Toothbrushes
Ice Chests
Footballs
Combs
CD's & DVD's
Paint Brushes
Detergents
Vaporizers
Balloons
Sun Glasses
Tents
Heart Valves
Crayons
Parachutes
Telephones
Enamel
Pillows
Dishes
Cameras
Anesthetics
Artificial Turf
Artificial limbs
Bandages
Dentures
Model Cars
Folding Doors
Hair Curlers
Cold cream
Movie film
Soft Contact lenses
Drinking Cups
Fan Belts
Car Enamel
Shaving Cream
Ammonia
Refrigerators
Golf Balls
Toothpaste
Gasoline
Americans consume petroleum products at a rate of three-and-a-half gallons of oil and more than
250 cubic feet of natural gas per day each! But, as shown here petroleum is not just used
Anyone can catch fish in a boat but only \"El Pescador Grande\" can get them from the beach.
I hope when my time comes the old man will let me bring my rod and the water will be warm and clear.
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Ateo
Elite Nomad
Posts: 5896
Registered: 7-18-2011
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We are drilling more domestically under Obama then during Bush and that hasn't done jack chit to bring down oil prices..........just sayin'.
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woody with a view
PITA Nomad
Posts: 15939
Registered: 11-8-2004
Location: Looking at the Coronado Islands
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Mood: Everchangin'
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http://www.tampabay.com/news/business/energy/backtracking-ob...
1 year ago today. when he took over the big chair gas was 1.80/gallon. the last guy left a mess for sure, but WTF is going on?
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