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wilderone
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3823
Registered: 2-9-2004
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" Would you prefer some grandioso developer building gargantuan hotels all along the 3 miles of bay??
Can you tell me the distinction between that and 6,000 homes packed in 3 miles of coastal bay habitat and confined on one side by the Sierra de la
Giganta? Can you honestly tell me with a straight face that 6,000 homes, 5 swimming pools, two spas, 2 golf courses, marina, village center with
shops, restaurants, HOTEL, etc. isn't the same thing? At least Cabo is situated in the Pacific Ocean which can flush out a lot of its filth. They
also plan a fishing pier. I've got some news for them - there aren't any fish in the bay, as their much belated "environmental baseline" ecological
study will show. Another thing that is particularly disturbing is that they plan 5,000 acres as a "preserve" (which to most people means they will
simply leave it alone in its pristine condition), but, oh no, LB plans to take this "preserve", fence it, "revegetate" it, "green" it, build water
retention weirs, put in a plant nursery and create an organic farm. Does that sound like a "preserve" to you? It's mind-boggling in its
misconception. If they don't want a desert environment, they ought to build they're trash in CANADA. (oh yeah, they tried, but failed fue to
ill-conceived plans.) If they had any expertise regarding the plant nursery, to take just one instance, they would have salvaged all the plants they
scraped and destroyed along the coast and put them in the nursery, along with the very fragile topsoil in which they thrive (as is required now in
some mining reclamation projects). Do they have any idea of the species of plants and cacti they think they will be cultivating? Or who is going to
be working in this organic farm? Oh, Mexicans from Loreto - this must be one of the long-awaited jobs which will enhance their lives. Can they even
state why they're creating an organic farm? What are they planning to grow on this farm. Ask them. Ask to see the actual sewage system. Ask them if
the marina is guaranteed to be built. (Hint: read the fine print in the brochure). Ask them if they can guarantee that the Beach Club will be
completed. (Hint: read p. 3 of the Oct '04 newsletter). We await.
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Cincodemayo
Senior Nomad
Posts: 725
Registered: 3-7-2005
Location: Pacific NW
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wildone
Obviously nothing said here will change the way you interpret things about developments. Enough said there. I can make my own mind up as nothing was
ever handed to me and I'm not doing too bad with what I've earned....that means not throwing it to someone pitching a pipedream? Say that to all who
invested in Cabo and it's a total mishmash of wealth and poverty. Hopefully and I take that with a giant grain of salt, things will be different in
loreto....but I know already that you'll have a 20 paragraph response all negative. Flame on....
Don\'t get mad...
Get EVEN.
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Sharksbaja
Elite Nomad
Posts: 5814
Registered: 9-7-2004
Location: Newport, Mulege B.C.S.
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To some it IS a negative issue.
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Cincodemayo
Senior Nomad
Posts: 725
Registered: 3-7-2005
Location: Pacific NW
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To some it will be a positive issue. To others change and development will eat them up till they explode. Things don't stand still nor do they go
backwards. It's going to happen so that's the reality of it.
Don\'t get mad...
Get EVEN.
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elizabeth
Senior Nomad
Posts: 742
Registered: 7-30-2004
Location: Loreto, BCS
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Pompano
Whatever their other contributions to our society, developers could be an important source of protein. |
I think this is off-topic and should be put under Baja Recipes.
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Cincodemayo
Senior Nomad
Posts: 725
Registered: 3-7-2005
Location: Pacific NW
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Grover
I've been to way too many! Try the Balitravelforum and say anything negative about the Balinese. I've been to Bali twice and the moneychangers are the
worst! Actually the most antagonistic is the Lonely Planet travel Forum. That's total chaos...
Don\'t get mad...
Get EVEN.
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Dave
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6005
Registered: 11-5-2002
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| Quote: | Originally posted by elizabeth
Oh really, then why don't they do something creative, like a percentage of Loreto Bay units set aside as low income housing with sales only to local
Mexicans? Hey, if we can do a proportion of low income housing in overinflated Marin County developments, I don't know why they can't do it there.
I guess they don't want the authentic Mexican Village of Loreto Bay cluttered up with Mexican families...at least not after they[ve finished cleaning
the houses. |
When developers set aside for low income it is because state/local governments require it.
What has BCS and Loreto required of this development? After all, isn't it their responsibility? I'm sure the development obtained all necessary
permits from city/state/federal.
So you shouldn't worry, right? 
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Rickman
Newbie
Posts: 2
Registered: 2-13-2005
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Paved roads with lights don't mean anything else is going to happen...at least for quite a while, and maybe never. I am not really familiar with this
Loreto Bay thing, but I remember Nopolo Bay with the John McEnroe tennis stadium. They had paved streets with lights and it seems like the last time I
went by, the paved streets with the lights were still there. No houses though. I think the only Big developement in Loreto will be one of these
"ecologically correct" things to suck people in. The climate doesn't lend itself to "resort hotels". People with the big bucks want to soak up the
rays in the winter. They don't want to put up with 5 days of North wind. Don't get me wrong, I love Loreto. I used to launch out of Escondido Bay and
camp out in those crazy yellow and white tents. But, it isn't for everyone. It's the same thing with the East Cape where I built a house. Too much
wind in the winter. It is too bad for Cabo that it has that weather. It used to be neat.
By the way, I always wanted to put together a coffee table book of Baja pictures showing the "Grand Entrance Erections" that Mexican/Canadian/American
developers came up with. Almost everyone of them is broken down, or covered with weeds.
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JESSE
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3370
Registered: 11-5-2002
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Don?t be surprised if in the near future, you start to see demonstrations against these type of developments, i would love to see the face of those
developers if the locals started to greet their customers with signs saying rather mean things.
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Cincodemayo
Senior Nomad
Posts: 725
Registered: 3-7-2005
Location: Pacific NW
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Junior
Been going to Baja for 25 years Mr. expert. Did I ever say I had heaps of $$...do you always turn stories around?
Your kind are on every forum...Who just posted he had the inside on acreage and lots but to go thru him and HAD to commit some of the property for
Bamboo growing. Hot dang the kettle is black! Noticed you are as much on the fence as Kerry? Don't know which way to fall...
Don\'t get mad...
Get EVEN.
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jrbaja
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4863
Registered: 2-2-2003
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Like
take your useless lame arses home P-nche gringos?
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Cincodemayo
Senior Nomad
Posts: 725
Registered: 3-7-2005
Location: Pacific NW
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take your useless lame arses home P-nche gringos?
Oh no now I'm crushed. The good, the bad and the jr's.
Don\'t get mad...
Get EVEN.
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jrbaja
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4863
Registered: 2-2-2003
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Since I haven't toyed with the fodder recently
this is a pleasant change. I've always enjoyed being the verbal punching bag for mindless marooons who pretend to know baja on a message board.
Look pinhead, all I said was to be careful. You have yer head so far up your loreto bay that you won't even listen to others ideas.
These are the types they are looking for and obviously, you will fit right in. As far as the P-nche gringo comment, it was in reference to the
signs you will be seeing. As far as you being one, from your posts, I would sure guess that you are.
Buena suerte genius
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Cincodemayo
Senior Nomad
Posts: 725
Registered: 3-7-2005
Location: Pacific NW
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Oh yeah, this is something I'd trust...why not just donate it to your bamboo endeavors heck I'll give you a 30% comission and bring down a truckload
of Phyllostachys negra "Hinon" for ya.
Before it's all gone
I bring you this because I am watching the land disappear around me. It is being bought up by foreigners at gringo prices and I don't know any of
these people.
My friends down here are all becoming envious of the sales and are interested in selling some of theirs to help put their kids through school and have
some money.
Here's the deal. I can get a few properties at Mexican prices and their are no realtors involved. It is strictly through the landowners, yourself and
a notario publico. Fidiecomisos are easily attained on the properties.
The properties range in size, the smallest being three acres and the largest about fifty acres. Some are cleared and some are not but they all have
potable water (the best!).
Examples, 15 acres with an acre already cleared for building $25,000.00. 3 acres cleared and leveled $15,000.00
I ask that a small portion of the properties be used for growing bamboo for San Bartolo Bamboo.
This serves two purposes, You will be helping by growing bamboo and becoming involved with a community. This means Mexican prices for backhoes,
tractors, manguera, and everything involved with country living. This is a huge savings!
I will ask for a 10%commision on any sales and also that a small portion of the property be used for growing bamboo for San Bartolo Bamboo.
These are incredible deals as I just watched my neighbor sell his house and small lot for $20,000.00 u.s. to some folks from Alaska who are my new
neighbors.
If anyone is seriously interested, send Carol $25.00 and I will go and take pictures and get all the information regarding the properties.
I figure the fee will cut down on uninterested riff raff that just need something to do
:moon:
Don\'t get mad...
Get EVEN.
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Cincodemayo
Senior Nomad
Posts: 725
Registered: 3-7-2005
Location: Pacific NW
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Is this the Real Estate tycoon himself?
Don\'t get mad...
Get EVEN.
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wilderone
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3823
Registered: 2-9-2004
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"Don?t be surprised if in the near future, you start to see demonstrations against these type of developments, i would love to see the face of those
developers if the locals started to greet their customers with signs saying rather mean things."
Now there's an idea. Charter a bus - big signs - camp on the beach. Call in Gringo Gazette. Love it. When?
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Dave
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6005
Registered: 11-5-2002
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| Quote: | Originally posted by JESSE
Don?t be surprised if in the near future, you start to see demonstrations against these type of developments, i would love to see the face of those
developers if the locals started to greet their customers with signs saying rather mean things. |
Questions:
Why would you think the locals would be against these projects?
If so, why wouldn't the locals protest before the projects are approved and permits issued?
A large development like this had to receive approval from the national government. If there were demonstrations and the local police couldn't handle
the job, I would suspect the army would show up and haul the demonstrators away.
I am neither for or against these projects. I DO find fault in blaming the developers. It is Mexicans who sell the property, Mexicans who elect and
appoint the officials who approve them, Mexicans who issue permits for their construction and Mexico that grants foreigners the right to live here.
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friend of baja
Junior Nomad
Posts: 29
Registered: 3-8-2005
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| Quote: | Originally posted by wilderone
"Friend" of Baja, you state: "Loreto Bay is committing one percent of all real estate sales and re-sales, and one percent of all gross rental revenue
to a Community Trust Fund to be used for this very purpose. To date close to $1 million has already been deposited into this Trust Fund. This is but
one example of the social conscience being applied to the Villages of Loreto Bay."
For starters, The formation of the Foundation was a condition precedent to the closing on the purchase of the land in Phase 1 of the Villages of LB
Project. The 1% in perpetuity is part of a trust agreement with the Mexican government.
Furthermore, Fact: As of the Dec. 2004 Year End Report, the balance for the Fudacion Bahia de Loreto was $7,390. In 6 months time (Jun 04-Dec 04),
they accumulated a balance of $70,129, had "expenses" of $54,769 and gave out two grants: one to Pro Peninsula for $5,000 so a few people could attend
the Loreto Turtle Group meeting; and $2,900 to the Intl Ecotourism Society to develop a course in tourism. Doesn't sound to me like they're managing
the funds very well, when over 70% of the income is spent on administration. I'd want to know how much money Butterfield skims out of that, or else,
where is the expense money being spent. Another thing that might interest you is "The Foundation is in the process of becoming the concession holder
to manage the Zofemat, the 20-meter strip of land upland from the high water mark, which will continue to be owned by the federal government. We
believe that this strip of land will be best protected for the longer term if the Foundation rather than the developer controls it." Sounds to me
like they're using this "Foundation" as a conduit for more purposes than philanthropic, and I doubt has anything to do with "social conscious."
There are so many things that make me ill about the Villages of Loreto Bay that I don't even want to think about it anymore. The damage has been done
- the beautiful bay is GONE. FOREVER. Go ahead - live there in the narrow streets driving your electric golf cart, with f___ Canadians as your
neighbors. I know I said I wouldn't post anymore about LB, but you all are just so ignorant. |
wilderone, I can tell you are passionate and caring about the baja and for that you have my respect. I went back and re-read my email and do need to
correct what I said about the balance in the trust fund. I should have said that based on the total sales to date (approx. $100 million) the Trust is
OWED $1 million, and since LB hasn't actually collected this amount the balance reflects that. Sorry.
I and many other homeowners that I have spoken to are committed to the sustainability goals of this project, after all it is the reason many of us are
there. I promise to follow up on this and hold everyones feet to the fire.
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friend of baja
Junior Nomad
Posts: 29
Registered: 3-8-2005
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| Quote: | Originally posted by elizabeth
I, for one, appreciate the factual material posted by wilderone. Everybody has opinions...but this project needs to be looked at by analyzing the
facts, not the advertising hype.
And...I'm a little tired of hearing that somethng is o.k. because "the Mexicans" want it. There is NO monolithic "the Mexicans"...the government does
not always have the social and environmental issues firmly in hand when money is on the table.
I don't think my (US) government represents my concerns and issues...so why would I think that the Mexican government represents all Mexican
viewpoints? |
Elizabeth, my point on this was that because Fonatur has designated Loreto as an international tourist destination, isn't it better to develop in an
ecologically sensitive way, rather than build another Cancun or Cabo.
Nobody said democracy was perfect, but its sure better than the alternatives.
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friend of baja
Junior Nomad
Posts: 29
Registered: 3-8-2005
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| Quote: | Originally posted by jrbaja
when you say that the Mexicans are in favor of this project, I was wondering how you actually know that and if it includes all Mexicans here in Baja
or just the ones selling the project. |
Actually JR, I asked them. It was such a huge point of interest from homeowners that we talked to as many locals as possible. The most negative
comment I heard and it was repeat several times was, that "they had been promised development in the past only to be disappointed, so why should they
get excited this time."
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