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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Marla Daily
I'm sure it wouldn't be hard to find the local vaquero who found the car. Anyone within miles will know about it. |
People don't generally like to get involved...especially with a disappearance in this day and age. They would have a hard time tracing down anyone
involved in this.
"YOU CAN'T LITTER ALUMINUM"
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Hook
Elite Nomad
Posts: 9009
Registered: 3-13-2004
Location: Sonora
Member Is Offline
Mood: Inquisitive
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
People don't generally like to get involved...especially with a disappearance in this day and age. They would have a hard time tracing down anyone
involved in this. |
And maybe, just maybe, that's what the authorities are hoping.
This whole delay in releasing the location, releasing the car, discouraging a private search is very suspicious, IMO. It's like they want the trail as
cold as possible.
The authorities havent even been back to the location on their own? That's preposterous.
Or could they be plotting their shakedown of the family for bogus search fees and such.
Of course, complete incompetency can never be ruled out when it comes to the local police in Mexico. Remember that many are only hired by political
cronies and have zero training.
But this smacks of being more deliberate than incompetent.
[Edited on 4-5-2014 by Hook]
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latina
Nomad
Posts: 210
Registered: 3-19-2011
Location: La Paz
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| Quote: | Originally posted by lizard lips
I forgot to mention that the keys for the vehicle were found inside and his wallet was not found.
Until we know the exact location where the 4 Runner was found then we can discuss contacting others for help on the next step.
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This piece of information has to be relevant to how far from the 4 runner's location (when the police divulge it) Gary could be found. Was the truck
unlocked? Why would the keys still be in the truck and not in his pocket? If he was planning to go searching for help to get unstuck he would have
locked it up and taken the keys, to secure his camera, etc. Were the keys still in the ignition? Or had he accidentally locked himself out of the
truck?
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Taco de Baja
Super Nomad
Posts: 1913
Registered: 4-14-2004
Location: Behind the Orange Curtain, CA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Dreamin' of Baja
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It could be as simple as Gary was out exploring on foot or doing his morning business slipped and fell and injured himself badly enough that he could
not get back to the truck. When I'm out exploring in the boonies I will often leave the keys in the car. The cops said the truck was 'stuck' but it
had also been there 6 months and probably been through a few storms. Maybe it just looked that way.
Truth generally lies in the coordination of antagonistic opinions
-Herbert Spencer
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Hook
This whole delay in releasing the location, releasing the car, discouraging a private search is very suspicious,
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You, Hook, should know by now that authority in Mexico stays at the top. It isn't so easily delegated to others as in the states. This police chief ,
or whatever he is, has bosses, who have bosses. Eventually one of them will spill the entire pot of beans.
| Quote: |
The authorities havent even been back to the location on their own? That's preposterous.
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You know that? How?
| Quote: |
Or could they be plotting their shakedown of the family for bogus search fees and such.
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Now...I would be called a racist here for implying that , but you may be right. Time will tell. The profit motive looms large down here.
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But this smacks of being more deliberate than incompetent.
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Again........maybe so.
"YOU CAN'T LITTER ALUMINUM"
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EnsenadaDr
Banned
Posts: 5027
Registered: 9-12-2011
Location: Baja California
Member Is Offline
Mood: Move on. It is just a chapter in the past, but don't close the book- just turn the page
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Whatever the case may be, the family has specifically posted and requested that Nomads join in the search. Where are the "experts" now that we need
them? They told the "amateur sleuths" to stay out of this until the family signals otherwise. The family has now made it clear they want a search
team organized. Or do the experts feel they don't want the amateurs meddling in their investigation??
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
The family has now made it clear they want a search team organized. Or do the experts feel they don't want the amateurs meddling in their
investigation?? |
If that's what the family wants........then, that's what they should do. Organize one.
"YOU CAN'T LITTER ALUMINUM"
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Marla Daily
Nomad
Posts: 418
Registered: 9-2-2003
Location: Loreto, BCS
Member Is Offline
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I still believe the best course of action is to get the information of exactly where the car was found. Ask the authorities in Cataviña. If they
refuse to release this information, I'd ask the hotel employees; the restaurant employees; I'd ask at the pink hotel and anyone else in Cataviña. It
is likely common knowledge who found the car. (I will ask these questions in May when I drive down if no one else has done so by then.)
Next drive to the general area given to the family and begin asking the ranchers in the area and anyone at the local fish camps who found the car. The
finder could be given a small reward for reporting it. A larger reward could be offered to anyone finding Gary Patton.
The search can spread out from the car location.
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64721
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
Member Is Offline
Mood: Have Baja Fever
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Marla Daily
I still believe the best course of action is to get the information of exactly where the car was found. Ask the authorities in Cataviña. If they
refuse to release this information, I'd ask the hotel employees; the restaurant employees; I'd ask at the pink hotel and anyone else in Cataviña. It
is likely common knowledge who found the car. (I will ask these questions in May when I drive down if no one else has done so by then.)
Next drive to the general area given to the family and begin asking the ranchers in the area and anyone at the local fish camps who found the car. The
finder could be given a small reward for reporting it. A larger reward could be offered to anyone finding Gary Patton.
The search can spread out from the car location. |
The car was towed to Cataviña, and where it came from is known, the family already has all those details... No need to quiz people in Cataviña. Before
too many go to the site, it probably should be better investigated by professionals.
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absinvestor
Senior Nomad
Posts: 725
Registered: 11-28-2009
Member Is Offline
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Latina- your comment about him possibly locking himself out struck a nerve. Most of us have at one time or another done that. Especially with power
locks it is easy for the wind to blow a door shut and you find yourself locked out. Whether the keys were in the ignition is important. Leaving the
keys on the floor or on the seat is not so suspicious but leaving them in the ignition is. Do we know if there is any gas in the tank? Could he have
run out trying to get unstuck? At this point everything is speculation but the more we know for sure will help in the investigation.
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woody with a view
PITA Nomad
Posts: 15939
Registered: 11-8-2004
Location: Looking at the Coronado Islands
Member Is Offline
Mood: Everchangin'
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if you locked your keys inside would you walk away or look 10 feet away to find a rock?
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willardguy
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6451
Registered: 9-19-2009
Member Is Offline
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I betcha gottapeso would have some "profound" thoughts on this.
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Taco de Baja
Super Nomad
Posts: 1913
Registered: 4-14-2004
Location: Behind the Orange Curtain, CA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Dreamin' of Baja
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Marla Daily
I still believe the best course of action is to get the information of exactly where the car was found. Ask the authorities in Cataviña. If they
refuse to release this information, I'd ask the hotel employees; the restaurant employees; I'd ask at the pink hotel and anyone else in Cataviña. It
is likely common knowledge who found the car. (I will ask these questions in May when I drive down if no one else has done so by then.)
Next drive to the general area given to the family and begin asking the ranchers in the area and anyone at the local fish camps who found the car. The
finder could be given a small reward for reporting it. A larger reward could be offered to anyone finding Gary Patton.
The search can spread out from the car location. |
If anyone wants to talk to the locals, the best spot is likely going to be being at the green cement building ("Salon" on David's GE image, above) on
a Sunday morning. This spot is likely within several miles of where the vehicle was found. It’s 2-2.5 hours off the pavement, and ~1 hour from the
coast.
I passed through there in late August of 2006 around 11:00 am on a Sunday and the parking area was packed with vehicles, likely all the local
ranchers, and maybe even the fishermen attending church services. I had no ideas that many people lived out there, although many may have come from a
20-30 mile radius around the building. I got a flat-tire a little later up the road and every vehicle slowed or stopped to see if we needed help as
they passed by; the temp was well north of 100 degrees at the time. Good people out there, for sure. Guaranteed someone there will know something; or
actually be the ones who found it.
Until it can be determined where the vehicle was found, searches should not occur and would really be pointless; and searches should not really occur
until the authorities in charge give their okay.
Truth generally lies in the coordination of antagonistic opinions
-Herbert Spencer
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Skipjack Joe
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8084
Registered: 7-12-2004
Location: Bahia Asuncion
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by latina
Were the keys still in the ignition? Or had he accidentally locked himself out of the truck?
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Now that's an interesting proposition. A very interesting idea.
It always bothered me that he went looking for help without the food left in the car.
On the other hand if I was that desperate I would put a rock through the windshield to get at the water and food and keys.
BTW, if you follow the dirt road from hwy 1 it forks at about 40km and there is a small ranch 10km further on the right fork. That may have well have
been the ranchero that found the car.
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BajaGringo
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3922
Registered: 8-24-2006
Location: La Chorera
Member Is Offline
Mood: Let's have a BBQ!
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Skipjack Joe
BTW, if you follow the dirt road from hwy 1 it forks at about 40km and there is a small ranch 10km further on the right fork. That may have well have
been the ranchero that found the car. |
Do you mean the ranch that sells cheese with several, large solar panels and a very large wind mill? That is the same rancher who took a team down and
extracted Mike Younghusband from the bottom of the cliffs when he got stranded.
It is easy to make accusations and point fingers at what seems to be a lack of action from the authorities in the area. You have to understand it is
very much like the old west down there. A very large, desolate region with rugged terrain and only a few souls available to provide any government
services to hundreds of square miles in all directions with little to no communication. Those who do provide service also have many hats to wear and
simply cannot devote 100% of their time and attention to one specific situation.
That is one of the biggest reasons why the large Ensenada municipality needs to be broken up into several smaller, self governing cities. Ensenada,
whose city government manages the finances for the entire municipality keeps 99% of the cash for herself. The rest of the region, all the way down to
the 28th parallel, is left with no more than bread crumbs and struggles to provide any type of services.
There are some very good people in the Cataviña area and to imply they simply don't care or are looking to "shake down" the family is an insult and
unwarranted. Spend some serious time there and you will quickly discover...
[Edited on 4-5-2014 by BajaGringo]
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DianaT
Select Nomad
Posts: 10020
Registered: 12-17-2004
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by BajaGringo
There are some very good people in the Cataviña area and to imply they simply don't care or are looking to "shake down" the family is an insult and
unwarranted. Spend some serious time there and you will quickly discover...
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Seems to be quite a bit of that kind of thing going all around this forum lately.
Hopefully some people who have some training in search and rescue will be able to respond to the families request and one way or another, I hope they
find answers. I also hope they are people who will cooperate with local people.
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lizard lips
Super Nomad
Posts: 1468
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: EARTH
Member Is Offline
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I was the person, on behalf of the family, that interviewed the rancher that found the vehicle last Thursday. This is exactly what he told me. He said
that on March 04 he was on horseback looking for his cattle and came upon Gary's vehicle in an arroyo very close to his ranch. He has 80 head and
because it's an open range he often goes looking to make sure all is well. He said Gary's 4 Runner's back tires were sunk in the sand and there was a
shovel and a rake close by and it appeared that someone was attempting to dig out the tires to free it up with no success.
The vehicle was locked and there was a surfboard sticking out the back window which was rolled up so the board had just enough room to stick out and
where the window hit the board, the board was wrapped in a towel. The front passenger seat was pushed forward so that the board could fit all the way
to the front windshield.
He was able to get into the vehicle, I didn't ask how, and he saw a small ice chest with two beers and some orange juice and water which appeared to
be from the melted ice. The water was not cold to the touch. He also saw two bags of clothes containing shirts and short pants. In between the two
front seats was a container with U.S. coins and when he picked up the container he noticed a set of keys that fit the ignition for the vehicle. There
was also two "expensive" cameras and some canned food. Everything in the SUV appeared to be well kept and neatly organized. There were no water
bottles in the car. The vehicle was dusty but not very dirty.
The rancher attempted to start the car but the battery was dead.
He said he also went on horseback in circles for about an hour and did a small search for anything else that may be there for about an hour.
These are the directions where he said he found it: At km 189, heading south on Hwy 1, is a turn off approximately 12 km prior to reaching Catavina.
There is a large sign that says "San Jose". You turn right heading towards the ocean. You stay on this dirt road for approximately 38 kilometers and
come to a Y in the road. You take the dirt road to the right and travel approximately 10 kilometers and turn left and follow this dirt road another 2
km and off to the right is an arroyo about 400 meters and the vehicle was behind a small hill off to the right side. He stated that you would not be
able to see the 4 Runner while traveling on the road. It was hidden from view. His ranch is about 2 km further. Very close indeed!
On March 05 the rancher reported that he drove his tractor to the vehicle and towed it to his ranch where it would be safe. Apparently other ranchers
also are looking for cattle and he didn't want anything to happen to the SUV and all of the contents. After towing he drove to the Catavina Police and
informed them of the vehicle. On March 09 the police came to his ranch and towed the SUV to their impound yard.
The rancher found a phone number for what he thought was the owners family and called and told them that the vehicle was found and where it was. He
had no knowledge of Garys disappearance prior to locating the SUV.
This is where the interview became interesting…. The rancher said in the beginning of December 2013 he was on horseback looking for his cattle and was
at this exact spot where he found the SUV on March 4 and it definitely was not there. He also mentioned that other ranchers patrol this area weekly
and no one reported the abandoned vehicle. The rancher said he thinks the vehicle was only there, at the most, for one week.
It was also learned that the local habitat consists of Coyotes, Mountain Lions, and a lot of Rattle snakes.
He also said that if Gary was attempting to find someone for help, there are ranch houses nearby and several people travel that road on a daily basis.
This area, of course, is not heavily populated but someone would have driven by and seen him if he was walking.
This is all he knows and he was thanked for his concern and honesty by me and the family who has also talked to him and his daughter and son whom I
also met. Very nice people.
I told the family to post the information in the last post and I also told them not to revel the dates and the entire story in that I wanted to make
some calls first. So it's my fault for not giving you the entire story but I am doing this now. I hope you can appreciate this in that I wanted to get
the full story from another source I have and all is correct.
A call was received from the Tijuana Embassy to the Patton family that the vehicle is ready to be picked up and has been released so they are making
plans to go to San Quintin, where the car is now, and drive it back. The family also told me that they want to do a search in the area where the
vehicle was found towards the first part of May. I explained to the family that it's a BIG desert and won't be easy but it must be done.
Now, I'm sure some of you are concerned about the camera and the last photos that were taken on the same day he went missing as the camera had the
date and time function operating. The camera was inspected Gary's son when they initially saw the SUV at the Catavina Police impound yard and his son
turned the camera on and saw the photo. The photo was a picture of a little memorial that was placed on the highway where apparently an accident
occurred and the family of the victim constructed it. You all have seen plenty of these. My thoughts are maybe Gary inserted this chip after he used
up another one. Who knows and we won't know until the camera is returned and all of the photos are viewed.
If the ranchers thoughts are true about how long he thinks the 4 Runner was actually there then this would have been about six weeks ago that either
Gary or someone else got the vehicle stuck in the sand.
After the interview I called and explained everything to the family and once again asked about Garys mental health and their thoughts about about this
new information. They told me, just like before, that Gary was in a good mental state and never had any problems. Their hopes are up about what was
learned and so it should be.
To date Gary's ATM card has not been used.
Thats all for now. If more information comes forward it will be posted.
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absinvestor
Senior Nomad
Posts: 725
Registered: 11-28-2009
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Lots of great info- thanks. I'm sure others will have other thoughts but what surprises me is that when traveling by SUV that one would have both a
shovel and a rake. A shovel yes but a rake is hard to pack and takes up a lot of precious room. Normally a shovel is all one needs.
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tripledigitken
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4848
Registered: 9-27-2006
Member Is Offline
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I don't take a rake, but it would be handy for grooming a tent site.
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Barry A.
Select Nomad
Posts: 10007
Registered: 11-30-2003
Location: Redding, Northern CA
Member Is Offline
Mood: optimistic
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I DO take a steel headed stiff-tined rake--------good for raking up cow-chips (etc.) and removing from campsite, and general cleanup, and also
revealing crawling critters buried in the sand around your cot or tent. The rake rides on top of my camper, tied down and out of the way.
Barry
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