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oxxo
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Quote: Originally posted by JDCanuck  | | Someone back a bit mentioned the natural cooling effect of underground structures...... Anyone have similar experiences to share?
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Underground structures with below grade cooling tubes has been a technology that has been around for about 50 years. It works as advertised.
Unfortunately, the concept was never widely adopted because the general public did not want to live undeground, feeling claustrophobic and no view to
the outside, which are real concerns psychologically. The concept will never be adopted until the public has no other means for survival.
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surabi
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Yes, I had a friend in central Texas who lived in a small cabin that was built mostly underground, which he uncreatively referred to as "The
Underground".
It definitely stayed cooler in there in hot weather and also warmer in cold weather. True, there was no natural light, aside from when the door was
left open (there was a small set of stairs from the ground level door into the cabin). It felt like being in a little hobbit house, quite cozy.
Personally I don't mind what other people might consider claustrophobic spaces. There are people who like to live where they have an expansive view,
and those who are fine with darker, cozier spaces.
I have also noticed that each of those types tend to correspond to their personality type. Those who prefer an expansive view, who prefer to live on
high ground with lots of windows that give them a view of the surrounding area, and distant landscapes tend to be "big picture people"- those with the
kind of minds that lead them to be innovators, risk takers, business leaders, etc. Those who are fine with living in, say, a forest, where they might
only be able to see a few yards in any direction tend to be detail people who focus on the things which surround them.
It's possible that when babies are born, some are like "Yay! I am so happy to be out of that cramped space", while others wish they could crawl back
in that cozy little womb.
[Edited on 6-11-2024 by surabi]
[Edited on 6-11-2024 by surabi]
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mtgoat666
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| Quote: Originally posted by JDCanuck | Someone back a bit mentioned the natural cooling effect of underground structures. I shared a brief ferry ride with someone from Coober Pedy and he
told me about their underground living in extreme heat conditions in Aussieland. Might be something to think about copying if temps continue rising
globally as we adapt. Anyone have similar experiences to share?
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The only people i see living underground in my city are homeless living in culverts and underpasses, gophers and ground squirrels in my yard, and
coyote dens in the sage brush areas.
Scientist tell me my ancestors lived in caves in europe. I did my family tree on ancestry and did not find record of such habitation back to 17th
century.
Solution to global warming is to live underground? GTFO!
[Edited on 6-11-2024 by mtgoat666]
Woke!
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surabi
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You probably won't live to see that day, Goat, nor will I, but I think it's a distinct possibility. Survival instinct will certainly lead people to
burrow underground if the surface of the planet is too hot. They aren't going to choose death by heat over not having windows to look out of.
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AKgringo
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Empire Mine State Park
The Bourn family owned the Empire Mine in Grass Valley California in the late !800s. The "cottage" they stayed in was more of a mansion, and was
built from stone that was from the miles of mine shafts directly under it.
They drew air directly from the shafts by natural convection, and the place seems air conditioned even in the heat of summer. It was built in 1897,
and if you are ever in Grass Valley, it is a great place to visit for a tour.
No solar or wind power was used back then, but they did use steam!
If you are not living on the edge, you are taking up too much space!
"Could do better if he tried!" Report card comments from most of my grade school teachers. Sadly, still true!
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JDCanuck
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Coober Pedy at 47 degrees Celsius maximum temperature is well above our 38 degrees max here so I cant comment on whether it is livable or not. I am
thinking tho if we apply some of their experience to ours we can easily adapt as temperatures rise, as supposedly their interior temp is held at right
around 24 degrees year round. Oddly, their highest ever temperature was recorded in Dec 1990, whereas ours was reached in 2021, 31 years later. The
highest recorded temp in Australia was a crazy 50.7 degrees at Oodnadatta on Jan 2 1960...ouch!
[Edited on 6-11-2024 by JDCanuck]
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surabi
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I read an article about 35 years ago about this guy and the underground house and gardens, that was his lifelong building project, that he started
building in Fresno, Calif. back in the early 1900s. It's quite amazing and he dug through sedimentary rock and moved the rock and dirt by himself,
with no machinery, to create this place.
He basically thought "It's too damn hot here" had a vision as to a solution, and set about doing it.
https://accenti.ca/baldassare-forestieres-underground-garden...
It is listed as a California Historical Landmark and in the National Register of Historic Places, and is now run by his descendants and is open for
tours. I've always wanted to go there.
[Edited on 6-11-2024 by surabi]
[Edited on 6-11-2024 by surabi]
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JDCanuck
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| Quote: Originally posted by lencho | | Quote: Originally posted by JDCanuck | | ...already under replacement birth rates will overcome the increasing life expectancies and global population will be in decline, seniors will be a
huge burden on the working class and resentment will grow. Japan, Greece and a few other countries have already seen these trends.
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Seen trends... of resentment? Or of declining population?  |
Increasing resentment, but thats subject to personal evaluations of people i've spoken with. Those were tho the first two countries to be hit
economically with the demographic consequences that we will al be faced with.
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JDCanuck
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| Quote: Originally posted by lencho | | Quote: Originally posted by JDCanuck | | In BC in Canada right now, fully 1/3 of the population is hoping to migrate out of the province as they can no longer afford to live here due to
rapidly increasing costs. |
That's a huge number of people! 
You have an idea of where they'd like to end up? |
Well, according to news reports, the favoured destination is the province east of us, where the cost of living vs household income is far better. If
you own a home, you do have the option of signing over a portion of your equity each year and deferring your rapidly growing taxes at a moderate
interest rate on the loan they assign you. This is becoming a more and more popular option for financially distressed seniors who want to stay in
their homes. If you are in the renting and still working age group you are even more likely to be looking to relocate to Alberta (43%)
[Edited on 6-11-2024 by JDCanuck]
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RFClark
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We stopped at Coober Pedy on the way back from Uluru the place is really different. They mine Opals around there. They do have underground shops.
Think Mad Max!
That said the US Mid West has a history of houses dug into the side of south facing hills too.
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JDCanuck
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| Quote: Originally posted by RFClark | We stopped at Coober Pedy on the way back from Uluru the place is really different. They mine Opals around there. They do have underground shops.
Think Mad Max!
That said the US Mid West has a history of houses dug into the side of south facing hills too.
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Come to think of it, my ancestors when they immigrated to Canada in the late 1800's built sod homes which had very low walls made of sod and low
entrances then covered with poles with sod placed over them. The second or third year they replaced them with log cabins and the race to luxury was
on!
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oxxo
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| Quote: Originally posted by JDCanuck |
Well, according to news reports, the favoured destination is the province east of us, where the cost of living vs household income is far better. If
you own a home, you do have the option of signing over a portion of your equity each year and deferring your rapidly growing taxes at a moderate
interest rate on the loan they assign you. This is becoming a more and more popular option for financially distressed seniors who want to stay in
their homes. If you are in the renting and still working age group you are even more likely to be looking to relocate to Alberta (43%)
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I have both friends and family that live in Alberta District. They tell me (I have never visited there) that this area has been booming historically
as a result of an economy based on oil drilling and fracking (they call their local hockey team the "Oilers" for good reason). As a result of the US
becoming more oil independent, the rapid increase in fuel alternatives for vehicles worldwide, and the increasing brutality in winter weather in
Alberta, the steam is running out of the oil industry in their area. As a result, the younger, working class is leaving the area to seek work in more
progressive areas with higher wages and more job prospects (where that is, I don't know). So the cost of housing is plummeting in Alberta and the
elderly from other parts of Canada are coming in to snap it up, thinking that weather in Alberta is going to be similar to BC...which it is not.
Alberta will continue to exist in the future but not thrive like in the past. I kind of liken Alberta to some areas of Oklahoma and Texas that are
dependent on the oil industry and their prospects for the future.
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pacificobob
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| Quote: Originally posted by surabi | I read an article about 35 years ago about this guy and the underground house and gardens, that was his lifelong building project, that he started
building in Fresno, Calif. back in the early 1900s. It's quite amazing and he dug through sedimentary rock and moved the rock and dirt by himself,
with no machinery, to create this place.
He basically thought "It's too damn hot here" had a vision as to a solution, and set about doing it.
https://accenti.ca/baldassare-forestieres-underground-garden...
It is listed as a California Historical Landmark and in the National Register of Historic Places, and is now run by his descendants and is open for
tours. I've always wanted to go there.
[Edited on 6-11-2024 by surabi]
[Edited on 6-11-2024 by surabi] |
Excellent article re: the underground gardens
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JDCanuck
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Getting back to BEV's and solar in Baja tho, Baja obviously has a long way to go before it will be practical to drive a BEV down the peninsula as it
would take 5 days from Mexicali to Cabo if you could do 300 miles between charges based on Mexicali to San Felipe, San Felipe to Guerrero Negro,
Guerrero Negro to Loreto, Loreto to La Paz and then La Paz to Cabo. Seems a bit daunting to me.
[Edited on 6-11-2024 by JDCanuck]
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oxxo
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| Quote: Originally posted by JDCanuck | | Getting back to BEV's and solar in Baja tho, Baja obviously has a long way to go before it will be practical to drive a BEV down the peninsula as it
would take 5 days from Mexicali to Cabo if you could do 300 miles between charges based on Mexicali to San Felipe, San Felipe to Guerrero Negro,
Guerrero Negro to Loreto, Loreto to La Paz and then La Paz to Cabo. Seems a bit daunting to me. |
I totally agree with you, the infrastructure for CONVENIENT long distance travel on the Baja Peninsula, is simply not in place yet. However, I think
we will see about 3 to 4 more Tesla branded Superchargers along Hwy 1, in the next 3 to 5 years. And then a 2 day trip along the length of the
peninsula, with 1 overnight in either Catavina or GN, will be an easy trip.
It has been years since I have driven on the road from Mexicali/San Felipe/ Hwy 1. Then it was just roughly graded with lots of ruts and not pleasant
at all, more suitable for a 4x4. Is that road paved now?
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JDCanuck
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Not sure if this link is allowed on here, but here is an optimistic view from another site of driving an EV down the Baja at present with a list of
Tesla destination level 2 chargers he located. I have yet to find a link to someone who actually did it.
https://talkbaja.com/driving-down-baja-in-a-tesla-ev/
I suppose if you really got stuck, you could search for someone with a 240v 50 amp welder outlet that would be willing to help you out for a fee and
carry the various adapters you would need for the different outlets. Here is the one we are having installed for our home charging use that connects
to our Leaf's 28 amp charging cord, but will handle up to 40 amps continuous:
https://ohmelectricalcontracting.com/nema-14-50-outlet/
One warning: My Electrician daughter tells me if you install this outlet you should size the breaker at the panel to protect your rated draw or risk
your breaker not tripping on a fault. In my case, that would mean a 40 amp breaker, but could be boosted to 50 amp if your charging cable draws more,
up to 80% of the breaker size as per Canadian codes.
[Edited on 6-12-2024 by JDCanuck]
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surabi
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| Quote: Originally posted by JDCanuck | Getting back to BEV's and solar in Baja tho, Baja obviously has a long way to go before it will be practical to drive a BEV down the peninsula as it
would take 5 days from Mexicali to Cabo if you could do 300 miles between charges based on Mexicali to San Felipe, San Felipe to Guerrero Negro,
Guerrero Negro to Loreto, Loreto to La Paz and then La Paz to Cabo. Seems a bit daunting to me.
[Edited on 6-11-2024 by JDCanuck] |
I'm not sure what you mean by daunting.
I have driven down Baja a couple of times, driving alone. 4-5 days is how long it took me, as I don't like long driving days. I can't understand what
is "daunting" about it.
I can certainly understand if you are in rush for some reason that it wouldn't be convenient to stop and spend the night somewhere for 4 nights,
rather than driving it in 2 days, with a one night stop.
But most Americans and Canadians who travel in Baja or anywhere in Mexico don't seem like they have much reason to be in a rush.
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mtgoat666
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| Quote: Originally posted by surabi | | Quote: Originally posted by JDCanuck | Getting back to BEV's and solar in Baja tho, Baja obviously has a long way to go before it will be practical to drive a BEV down the peninsula as it
would take 5 days from Mexicali to Cabo if you could do 300 miles between charges based on Mexicali to San Felipe, San Felipe to Guerrero Negro,
Guerrero Negro to Loreto, Loreto to La Paz and then La Paz to Cabo. Seems a bit daunting to me.
[Edited on 6-11-2024 by JDCanuck] |
I'm not sure what you mean by daunting.
I have driven down Baja a couple of times, driving alone. 4-5 days is how long it took me, as I don't like long driving days. I can't understand what
is "daunting" about it.
I can certainly understand if you are in rush for some reason that it wouldn't be convenient to stop and spend the night somewhere for 4 nights,
rather than driving it in 2 days, with a one night stop.
But most Americans and Canadians who travel in Baja or anywhere in Mexico don't seem like they have much reason to be in a rush.
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People on vacation got to maximize time off before returning to work. Road trips often require 500 to 600 mile travel days. Not everyone is
unemployed or retired and able to twaddle for 3 days to get from socal to the 28th parallel.
Woke!
“...ask not what your country can do for you – ask what you can do for your country.” “My fellow citizens of the world: ask not what America
will do for you, but what together we can do for the freedom of man.”
Prefered gender pronoun: the royal we
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surabi
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Not sure how anyone who is on vacation "needs" to drive 500-600 miles a day to "maximize" their vacation time. Is driving long hours for 2 days so you
can sit on a beach in Cabo somehow a better vacation than having shorter, relaxing driving days and sitting on other beaches along the way?
Usually people choose to drive rather than fly because they want to be able to stop along the way and see other places, camp, whatever. If someone
wants to maximize their vacation time in only a specific location that requires 2 days driving time, seems like they'd be smarter to just fly there.
[Edited on 6-12-2024 by surabi]
[Edited on 6-12-2024 by surabi]
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JDCanuck
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| Quote: Originally posted by surabi | | Quote: Originally posted by JDCanuck | Getting back to BEV's and solar in Baja tho, Baja obviously has a long way to go before it will be practical to drive a BEV down the peninsula as it
would take 5 days from Mexicali to Cabo if you could do 300 miles between charges based on Mexicali to San Felipe, San Felipe to Guerrero Negro,
Guerrero Negro to Loreto, Loreto to La Paz and then La Paz to Cabo. Seems a bit daunting to me.
[Edited on 6-11-2024 by JDCanuck] |
I'm not sure what you mean by daunting.
I have driven down Baja a couple of times, driving alone. 4-5 days is how long it took me, as I don't like long driving days. I can't understand what
is "daunting" about it.
I can certainly understand if you are in rush for some reason that it wouldn't be convenient to stop and spend the night somewhere for 4 nights,
rather than driving it in 2 days, with a one night stop.
But most Americans and Canadians who travel in Baja or anywhere in Mexico don't seem like they have much reason to be in a rush.
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The problem with a BEV plugged in is you would drive to the charge point, plug in the vehicle if one is available and working when you arrive, then be
without a vehicle for any additional sightseeing for the duration of the charge. The charge point may be a long way from where you would like to
explore. So the trip would be limited to charge point to charge point, or you then rent or hire transportation for the sightseeing portion and hope no
one disconnects you while you are gone.
With DC superchargers available, the charging could be undertaken while eating or other shorter duration breaks. With level 2 chargers that charge
time is extended to much longer durations of several hours(shared level 2 at 3kw takes 20 hours for 60kwh recharge, 10 hours if you get lucky and find
one thats not shared with another charging vehicle and is delivering the full 6kw). No DC Superchargers (typically 150-250 kw) are available at this
point south of Ensenada. Those 5 days are mainly composed of 85% of full charge distances of around 60kwh.
Essentially, your travel consists of drive, find an available charger, eat, sleep and charge overnite.
[Edited on 6-12-2024 by JDCanuck]
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