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4x4abc
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here is an example of date palm locations and Camino Real routes
[Edited on 2-13-2025 by 4x4abc]
Harald Pietschmann
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4x4abc
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Quote: Originally posted by cupcake  | I would like to see the profile of my Incha-Canada El Manchon-Arroyo Las Cargas de Lena route.
On Google Earth, I see many more possible points of water on this route than on the others.
[Edited on 2-13-2025 by cupcake] |
here we go - 37 km
Harald Pietschmann
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4x4abc
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very likely used by the many people living in Los Dolores and the ranchos around it
the trails show a good presence
Harald Pietschmann
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cupcake
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I start to see those trails down in the drainage of Arroyo Las Cargas de Lena, but I don't see any higher up around the top of Canada El Manchon.
Maybe it is there and I just haven't been able to pick it out.
This profile has an abrupt rise as well..
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cupcake
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| Quote: Originally posted by cupcake |
Your profile images for the two routes seems to indicate that Las Parras would be more 'animal friendly'.
[Edited on 2-13-2025 by cupcake] |
I should walk back that statement, as this all depends on the number and quality of switchbacks on a slope (in a cuesta).
[Edited on 2-13-2025 by cupcake]
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cupcake
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| Quote: Originally posted by 4x4abc |
the Incha route has a nasty climb over a 900 meters pass and a gruelling drop into Incha. Advantage is the low elevation change between Incha and
Loreto
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I can see that the Incha profile is for the short route (30km). The climb up to the 900m pass looks like it starts from about 500m, so the elevation
gain is 400m, which in itself is not that bad.
I want to say that in my experience, it is better to see a possibly sketchy route for the first time by ascending it, not descending it. I find this
is safer, as I negotiate terrain more easily going up than I do going down. If I were doing this route, or the Arroyo El Triunfo route, I would want
to be traveling from Incha to San Javier when seeing the route for the first time. I guestimate that the section encountered out of Incha is more
challenging than the slope from San Javier up to the 900m pass.
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David K
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By-the-way, I shared this thread with Kevin (CaminoRealBaja.com) and learned they were just in the area of Calmallí Viejo researching trails (sent me
a great photo) and are now exploring routes near Mulegé to San Ignacio.
I think we all agree the Crosby map route of 1977 (dashed line), in the canyon beyond Magdalena is not Jesuit in nature.
https://sandiegohistory.org/journal/77winter/images/p20-21.g...
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cupcake
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When I click on the link I get an error message stating that "this website does not allow hotlinking." When I copy and paste the link into a new
browser window and press enter, the map comes up perfectly.
I was going to email Kevin and Genevieve with a question. I want to run the same question by this thread. Is there a section of the ECR that you feel
has the best preserved original trail that a hiker can view (walk and photograph)? I mean a trail that is not questioned by any of the people steeped
in this subject, as to its authenticity.
Another question: I have seen the intact surviving cut-stone missions (San Borja, Santa Gertrudis, San Ignacio, Mulege, Loreto, San Javier, San Luis
Gonzaga), and I am wondering if there are any surviving cut-stone Visitas.
[Edited on 2-15-2025 by cupcake]
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4x4abc
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best preserved, easiest to reach is ECR between Arroyo Santa Maria and Mission Santa Maria
somewhat trampled by recent MC travel, but pristine otherwise.
Harald Pietschmann
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4x4abc
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another good one is between Rancho Chula Vista (north of San Javier) and Arroyo SanTa Isabel - about 4 Kilometers
first part after Rancho Chula Vista widened by bulldozer, but otherwise pristine
great hike!
25.921456°, -111.568595°
Harald Pietschmann
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cupcake
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Thanks Harald!
You told me about the Mission Santa Maria section some time ago. I am glad to know about the pristine ECR trail north of Chula Vista, as I have been
looking at the San Javier to Comondu section.
[Edited on 2-16-2025 by cupcake]
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David K
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| Quote: Originally posted by 4x4abc | best preserved, easiest to reach is ECR between Arroyo Santa Maria and Mission Santa Maria
somewhat trampled by recent MC travel, but pristine otherwise.
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That section was made after the Jesuits were removed, which explains why it is so narrow and unlike the ECR south of San Borja (which is far easier to
find and hike than the section south of San Sebastian that has proven difficult to follow).
[Edited on 2-15-2025 by David K]
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cupcake
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I had a question about the ethics and legality of using someone else's GPS waypoints and found this online:
"If the waypoints are publicly shared online, like on a hiking website or forum, it's usually fine to use them without contacting the original
creator. "
"If the waypoints are shared privately, always ask for permission before using them, especially if they involve sensitive locations like private
property or restricted areas."
"When using someone else's waypoints, consider giving credit to the original creator, especially if you are sharing them further."
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Fatboy
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I would think that if someone posted waypoints on a public forum it would be OK to use them.
But it is a point I never considered, is it different than other content such as music, writings, photos and videos?
To me it seems to be different, but maybe I am wrong.
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David K
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From Kevin of CaminoRealBaja.com:
After sending Kevin the link to this thread, I soon got a lengthy reply... from him in Baja.
Here is the first part of his reply, in regards to their just completed section search, north of El Arco:
Hello David,
It is always good to hear from you. It is funny this came up. We were in that area just a couple of weeks ago and we are still in Baja. We were
looking into ECR and trying to find existing pieces of it between the kiln and Rancho la Union. We were successful in coming up with some new finds.
Some of the trail in that area does not show on Google Earth and the terrain is mostly soft dirt and sand with very few rocks around. Still, we were
overall happy with the results...
By the way, while having dinner with the ranchers at Rancho Las Palomas near Calmallí Viejo, Victor mentioned the Pacifico in route to San
Borja and named the ranches on the trail. We want to talk to him again and see what we can come up with on that branch.
Kevin gave me permission to share this photo with you: "Approaching the waterhole."
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Fatboy
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Does he say what waterhole? At Calmallí Viejo?
My walk in that area was an interesting hike, but I was probably, rarely if ever on the ECR.
I did find water and what appears to be on old trail in one of the washes between Rancho la Union and the Kiln.
I started about a mile north of Rancho la Union and hiked to Rancho Los Corrales and back on that trip in 2022.
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cupcake
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| Quote: Originally posted by Fatboy | I would think that if someone posted waypoints on a public forum it would be OK to use them.
But it is a point I never considered, is it different than other content such as music, writings, photos and videos?
To me it seems to be different, but maybe I am wrong. |
On their website, Kevin and Genevieve state that they know people will use their waypoints to plan hiking trips, so there seems to be no question
about them being ok with this.
I see a big difference between waypoints themselves. I just sent Harald some KML files of routes I marked in the San Javier area. This, where I sat at
a computer and spent two or three hours studying Google Earth images to plan a hopeful future route I would like to hike. Contrast that with K&G's
marked routes, where they have actually marked each waypoint at that given location, on the ground. The time and effort to make a 'ground verified'
waypoint route is considerably different than that involved in marking a hoped for future route at a computer screen.
While they may not be as visually compelling as a photograph to some observers, I believe K&G's GPS waypoints do represent an equal achievement.
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David K
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| Quote: Originally posted by Fatboy | Does he say what waterhole? At Calmallí Viejo?
My walk in that area was an interesting hike, but I was probably, rarely if ever on the ECR.
I did find water and what appears to be on old trail in one of the washes between Rancho la Union and the Kiln.
I started about a mile north of Rancho la Union and hiked to Rancho Los Corrales and back on that trip in 2022. |
I will ask... Where is this kiln?
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cupcake
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Great photo, thanks for posting it. As someone working on recovery from a recent lower back injury, I appreciate the size of the pack seen on Kevin's
back in the photo. I would like to keep my pack the same size! Maybe they are just out for a day hike from a camp where the beast of a pack has been
left...or maybe Genevieve was doing the heavy work that day..
[Edited on 2-18-2025 by cupcake]
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David K
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I too have had lower back surgery, two now, but they were minor to deal with disc-cysts irritating the sciatic nerve. Last year in January (L4-L5) and
this past month (L5-S1). Supposed to not do any heavy lifting for 6 months after. Ugh... I hate getting old! At least, I have also lost a lot of
weight!
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