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flyfishinPam
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Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Loreto, BCS
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Marie-Rose
http://forums.bajanomad.com/viewthread.php?tid=1432#pid47179
Just went back to this thread started in 2003 about Villages of Loreto Bay
and it is SO interesting to see everyones feelings back then and now see
some of the same peoples comments.
Pam
I especially was interested and respect your views. You gave this project a hesitant "thumbs up" hoping that they would follow thru and make things
better for you and
your community. Unfortuantely it wasn't to be... |
I guess I´m just a flip flopper or whatever you call it these days. Yes I was very much for the project, we all were and we needed the economic
stimulus. I believed the promises, well many of them and I appreciated their understanding of the beauty and fragility of this place by keeping their
project sustainable. But that was before I knew the facts and I believe that many of the buyers were suckered, like I was, into believing it too.
The Loreto Bay plan was much better than the original FONATUR high rise plan but the size of the project had always scared me and many others.
LB was definately crucial in bringing in Alaska Air Lines service which saved Loreto. Aero California was grounded a year and a half ago and
Aeromexico didn't renew its contract. If it weren't for Alaska Air it would have been very difficult here. Alaska's presence here brought the
attetion of other airlines like Delta and Contenental. So for that our town and myself really benefited.
The turning point for me was when I translated an important article back in February 2007. It was then that I realized the huge problems that we may
face if development continues unchecked here. The article came from a prominent Mexican journal called La Jornada and it disappoints me that
the periodicals of the USA and Canada are not critical at all about the projects proposed here, so we must turn to Mexican journalism for the truth,
how ironic!
Its not over yet, one poster says they´re having another sales event and another says citigroup will simply finish the paid for constructions and move
on. My take is that citigroup will do what makes money and will care less about how the welfare of this town.
I think that this change at Loreto Bay is a good thing and will eventually reverberate throughout the industry and slow it down. I see that it has
already slowed down from last year and the year before and prices of land, despite what everyone says, are in reality declining here.
I would like to see FONATUR wake up and realize that Loreto is unique of its other destinations (Los Cabos, Ixtapa, Cancun and Hualtulco and others
like Litibú). Our climate is different, our beaches are not the same, access is limited, our water is lacking, our infrastructure is lacking... In
all of those other places there were no developments of towns of significant size but here in Loreto these was already an established town. I have
been speaking with lots of the older folks about how FONATUR came to acquire so much land here and its forming an interesting picture about the recent
history of the Loreto area. IMHO Loreto would be a much better place without them.
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Bajaboy
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Pam-
Just curious on the progress of the big development in San Bruno. How will that affect town, Loreto Bay, etc. I was blown away with all the fences,
security guards, etc. that we saw out there. Everyone talks about LB but I haven't heard much about this project. What's the latest?
Zac
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flyfishinPam
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Zac,
Don't know the answer to that question. Keep in mind the proximity of Loreto Bay to town vs that of San Bruno and Ensenada Blanca. Also marketing is
lacking for the San Bruno projects and only just starting for the Villas Group project in Ensenada Blanca. The San Bruno project is a Spanish owned
deal and IMHO they don't have the same ability to speak to their target buyers, Americans and Canadians as effectively as Loreto Bay did. The Spanish
are oh so much different from their target buyers (americans and canadians). For some reason, gut mostly, I am not confident that this project will
be successful. The Villas project also placed guard gates and fences and although looks inevitable has met with much resistence mostly because of
their attitude which I will explain briefly becuse its important.
The villages of Ligui and Ensenada Blanca were established many, many years ago after the establishment of the mission at Ligui (maybe David K has
more detail here). They are villages that sustain themselves from the bounty of the sea. When the Villas Group came in they were horrified at the
shacks and these authentic Mexican villages so made it public that they would buy all of them out and bulldoze them so their guests wouldn't have to
look at such eyesores when they were driving on their way to the new resort. Immediately they fenced off access to the beach, cutting off the
lifeblood of the Ensenada Blanca fishermen who had to use it to make their living. They installed a guard gate where they took the names of all
persons who went thourough, including all guests, workers and owners of the two hotels already in the area, El Santuario and Danzante Resort.
Needless to say guests at these hotels were frightened at having to go through a checkpoint with armed guards after driving from the airport and
through desert 30 miles away. This affected business significantly. The Villas group has been sneaking around these properties and intimidating
everyone. Last year the mayor brought a lady to the Danzante Resort very late at night to stay in the hotel. fortunately the owners were present and
told them there was no vacancy. This is very suspicious as the owners feel this lady was likley going to plant something on their property and
therefore cause future problems. Since then it has been a reservations only policy at both hotels and I can't blame them at all. The citizens of
Ciudad Constitucion were outraged at the colsing of "their beach" as they use it extensively for Easter Week. After threatening to close access for
Easter Week 2007, the Villas Group allowed it to remain open (there truly would have been a riot if they had not). Who knows what will happen for
2008. The governor has been in the town to ease peoples nerves but it doesn't look good. We'll just have to wait and see. The electric lines are
currently being strung to Ligui and Ensenada Blanca from the Puerto Escondido electric substation. YOu can see this while driving on the highway.
As for San Bruno I did hear there were forced evacuations of farmers and farm workers from the area but they were not well publicized and took place
when I was in full swing of my busy season so I couldn't pay close attention. I heard about fencing off but I didn't know to what extent is was
there.
As for Golden Beach at Puerto Escondido. what beach is there? When people come to look at Golden Beach that will be the first question, where is
this Golden Beach. What a completely stupid name, misleading to say the least. I wouldn't think investors take getting duped very well, but if they
are stupid enough not to turn on a computer and take a look at the information that's already out there then they'll deserve the duping.
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Bajaboy
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Thanks Pam! I hear everyone talk about LB but wonder if most know of all the other developments in waiting. Again, we were shocked with all the
fenced off land and activity.
I've also heard rumors that Agua Verde is headed down the same path...one of our favorite Baja beaches.
Zac
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ElFaro
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| Quote: | Originally posted by jerry
Id like to know if Loreto Bay fails who is going to help pay for the desalt plant when the wells fail?? and we all know they will sooner then later.
whos going to pay for staffing the nice new hospital that Loreto Bay payed for??
whos going to pay for the improvements to the sewer shared by loreto Bays and nopolos and Loretos new housing ?? |
There seems to be an assumption that the only alternative to Loreto's furure water needs is a desal plant. Assuming for a minute that desal is not an
option, wouldn't the govt. go inland to the surrounding valleys and canyons, sink water wells, pipe it to collection systems, and then pipe the
resultant water to Loreto? That has been the MO for other towns in Baja...no? Or has this already been done and the inland sources are tapped out?
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wilderone
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Loreto water has been thoroughly researched:
http://www.futurosalternativosloreto.org/hydrology/2_assess....
[Edited on 10-5-2007 by BajaNomad]
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jerry
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ok backninedan you answer the question i asked Pam seems know one knows but there comementing on speculations tell me what ya think??
jerry and judi
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rogerj1
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Pam, I'm Roger and I look forward to meeting you some day.
The reason I put "nothing" into quote marks when referring to the Loreto Bay development was to signify how a developer might look at it. Please don't
misconstrue it as my opinion. I, unfortunately, haven't been to Loreto and was under the impression that the development was out of town at the site
of a failed development. I wrote my piece to help convey how development looks from the viewpoint of the developer.
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flyfishinPam
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Location: Loreto, BCS
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| Quote: | Originally posted by rogerj1
Pam, I'm Roger and I look forward to meeting you some day.
The reason I put "nothing" into quote marks when referring to the Loreto Bay development was to signify how a developer might look at it. Please don't
misconstrue it as my opinion. I, unfortunately, haven't been to Loreto and was under the impression that the development was out of town at the site
of a failed development. I wrote my piece to help convey how development looks from the viewpoint of the developer. |
cool no hay problema hope to meet you too sometime. 
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Skipjack Joe
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Article makes no sense to me. Why do you have groundwater if you always have negative recharge?
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flyfishinPam
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my guess would be because
recharge = (what goes in) - (what goes out)
what's going out (being pumped out) is greater than what's going in (rainwater recharge) so the overall recharge is negative. I hated hydrology in
school but I guess I should've paid more attention and not sold that book after passing the class. 
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ElFaro
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Wilderone...
I read the hydrology report you referenced. The only water source studied here was the San Bruno aquifer adjacent to Loreto. The report states the
watershed is only about 623 sq. km (240 sq mi or about 12 mi. X 20 mi.) and the aquifer is only 225 sq. km (88 sq. mi or about 7 mi X 12mi.)...a very
small area for water storage indeed. There is also alot of estimating and assumptions in this report of key data. There is no mention of other water
sources contributing to the San bruno aquifer (e.g. artesian supplies). The last statement in the summary states: "Consequently, any future
development in the region must find and develop an alternative water source for that development and the associated growth in supporting population."
Again as in my previous post the Govt. could pipe water in from other aquifers / watersheds that are say on the Pacific side and pump it over the
mountains. Loreto water does not have to be limited to the San Bruno aquifer or a desal plant. I'm not necessarily supporting this alternative...just
did not want it to be ignored.
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djh
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Mood: Mellow fellow, plays a yellow cello...
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the Govt. could.....
| Quote: | Originally posted by ElFaro
Again as in my previous post the Govt. could pipe water in from other aquifers / watersheds that are say on the Pacific side
and pump it over the mountains. Loreto water does not have to be limited to the San Bruno aquifer or a desal plant. I'm not necessarily supporting
this alternative...just did not want it to be ignored. |
The government COULD . . . Now there's a can-o-worms, eh ? ?
what could be.... and what is.... the human paradox....
Its all just stuff and some numbers.
A day spent sailing isn\'t deducted from one\'s life.
Peace, Love, and Music
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wilderone
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Well, I suppose a government that doesn't adequately fund its schools, clinics, environmental protection entities or any other municipal responsibly
throughout the entire country couldn't be expected to put a whole lot of money into a relatively small town such as Loreto when there is no dire need
to do so. Also, many things could be done to conserve water use in Loreto. It is understood that most faucets leak 24/7. How much water is wasted
every day from every faucet - 25 gallons? The LB Foundation should distribute washers, hoses and hose bibs to every household and stop the waste.
Every household should have a water barrel with which capture rainwater or grey water to use on plants and street washing. There could be ancillary
small reservoirs built for special purposes. There has been very little, if any, research done or attempts made at conserving water or utilizing
other methods, which, in combination, would improve the water situation for the residents of Loreto. If the population were not violently inflated
due to projects like LB, but rather, a natural, regulated growth spurred by more natural and regular occurrences, then there should be enough water.
Potable water is a problem in rural areas all over the world, and there are workable, inexpensive solutions. There doesn't seem to be anyone in
Loreto who is tasked with looking into those alternatives and making them happen. An initial effort to eliminate wasted water would be an easy first
step.
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Skeet/Loreto
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Widone:
Just for the record would you check the Annual Rainfall Data for Loreto and report your findings on this Thread.
Also a good look into the Purchase of the Water Rights from the Ranches in San Juan and the Number of Wells which have already been drilled and are in
use by Loreto.
If you will go back to the time of the early 70's you will find factual information on the Severe Drought sufferred in Baja Sur, the Seeding of the
Clouds by the Ranchers etc.
You will also find it interesting to Pinpoint the Location of the Drilled and producing Wells in relation to the Coast to the North of Loreto , San
Bruno .
During the time of the Driugh, many of the people of Loreto learned to save and Conserve Water, Many Pilas were built, Street Watering was forbidden.
Simply put- There is not enough Rainwater in Loreto to Conserve- There is not enough Rainwater in the Mountains to keep the Wells up , if another 7
year Drough comes around-
There is just not enough Water in those Mountains to meet the Demand!
Skeet/Loreto
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Skipjack Joe
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Here's a crazy thought I had last night that has little to do with this thread.
When the citizens of Loreto were given the privilege to decide whether to have the LB project approved. They should have agreed - on the condition
that LB provide all of them with the same homes built for gringos at prices that they could afford. That way Loreto would not grow into a town of
haves and have nots. The Mexicans need to be hard bargainers. They're in a powerful position and should take advantage of it.
Nonsense, you say. Perhaps.
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Skeet/Loreto
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Skipjack.
There is sonething missing with your words and Wildone's--
Most of the people of Loreto have not had the Education Level that we have in the States. Many of my Mexicano Friends did not even finish 3rd Grade.
They are the present 50 to 75 year olds.
Facts: Loreto has always had the Haves and Have Nots,- Several Families have always controlled Loreto.
Another thing is the "manana" or "Not today' feeling of Living. The education Systen has improved greatly in the past few years, but it will be many
years more before the young People ever get the Power to control their Destiny.
There are past incidents where the People got fed up with the Govt. and in Mass closed the one and only Road to get what they wanted- In the case of
the missing Church Bell and the forcing of the Govt. to drill more wells for Water.
If you will locate the Wells in use today you will find that any Water from the Mountains West of San Bruno is already in use for Loreto. Ligui is a
very interesting case also, as Angus McKensie bankrolled the present well that serves that area, then ended up in a Law Suit over the use of that
well.
Loreto as some of us know is Gone- All the words and acts are in Vain to try and stop the Development.
The next Drough of 7 years will be what will bring about the change- Good and Bad.
It is up to the People of Loreto to make any changes, not the Americans or Canadains
You can lead a Horse to Water, but you can't make him Drink!
Skeet/Loreto
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capt. mike
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well said Skeeter!
you have the most Loreto experience of any one here, your insight is obvious - yours and Pam's who lives there.
i agree that water rules all. but it still is a market function - without water there can be nada.
future wars will be fought over water, not oil.
if no LB, then no desal, then no water then no loreto??!!
formerly Ordained in Rev. Ewing\'s Church by Mail - busted on tax fraud.......
Now joined L. Ron Hoover\'s church of Appliantology
\"Remember there is a big difference between kneeling down and bending over....\"
www.facebook.com/michael.l.goering |
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tuna stick
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 For what it's worth,a friend of ours went out to the office at Loreto Bay
yesterday. When he inquired as to what was going on, they just laughed,and said nothing has changed, and everything is going ahead as planned. Only
the financing has changed hands. He did say it looked like thousands of workers on the job. On the other hand,we live a half a block off Mex 1,between
a convenience store and a small market. Usually there are a goup of LB workers hanging out in front of the convenience store,and a pretty steady
stream of workers walking back and forth to the market. This week there has been no one in front of the store,and very little foot traffic. It is 1:00
pm. Sat.,and still no traffic to the market.
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tuna stick
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Sun. afternoon,very little foot traffic,and no one hanging out at the
convenience store. Since Sun. is day off,usually quite busy.
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