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bajaking76
Nomad
Posts: 143
Registered: 1-12-2011
Location: San Diego, CA
Member Is Offline
Mood: If Baja calls, I am home.
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Interesting read in referrence to this post.....Baja Legends by Greg Niemann..... http://books.google.com/books?id=35WQOduN1F4C&pg=PA35&am...
[Edited on 3-4-2011 by bajaking76]
[Edited on 3-4-2011 by BajaNomad]
\"That\'s my thing, that\'s what I do\"
\"Gene Police: You!! Out Of The Pool!\"
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elbeau
Nomad
Posts: 256
Registered: 3-2-2011
Location: Austin, TX
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by bajaking76
Interesting read in referrence to this post.....Baja Legends by Greg
Niemann.....http://books.google.com/books?id=35WQOduN1F4C&pg=PA35&dq=mision+santa+isabel+baja+california&hl=en&ei=pARxTdSqIYKdlgeAlvyO
AQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CDcQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false
[Edited on 3-4-2011 by bajaking76] |
I would tend to think that when they moved north to "Velicatá" they meant Misión San Fernando Rey de España de Velicatá
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64850
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
Member Is Offline
Mood: Have Baja Fever
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| Quote: | Originally posted by elbeau
| Quote: | Originally posted by bajaking76
Interesting read in referrence to this post.....Baja Legends by Greg
Niemann.....http://books.google.com/books?id=35WQOduN1F4C&pg=PA35&dq=mision+santa+isabel+baja+california&hl=en&ei=pARxTdSqIYKdlgeAlvyO
AQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CDcQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false
[Edited on 3-4-2011 by bajaking76] |
I would tend to think that when they moved north to "Velicatá" they meant Misión San Fernando Rey de España de Velicatá |
Yes, Velicata was the Indian name for the site of Mision San Fernando... See http://vivabaja.com/missions2/page2.html
[Edited on 3-4-2011 by David K]
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larryC
Super Nomad
Posts: 1495
Registered: 8-11-2008
Location: BoLA
Member Is Offline
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About 5 years ago I rode my quad out to that arroyo, hiked around the area, and saw the "new" onyx dome. then continued on to the mine. Can't ride up
to the mine because the road is washed out just before you get there. We were able to walk to the mine, but not too interesting. Anyway back at the
"stream" can't say that I saw anything that looked old or man made. All in all though it was an interesting day. You guys will have fun.
Larry
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64850
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
Member Is Offline
Mood: Have Baja Fever
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| Quote: | Originally posted by larryC
About 5 years ago I rode my quad out to that arroyo, hiked around the area, and saw the "new" onyx dome. then continued on to the mine. Can't ride up
to the mine because the road is washed out just before you get there. We were able to walk to the mine, but not too interesting. Anyway back at the
"stream" can't say that I saw anything that looked old or man made. All in all though it was an interesting day. You guys will have fun.
Larry |
Here are some great photos from David (ELINVESIG8R) of the La Olvidada Barite Mine from 2008, 6.3 miles beyond El Volcan: http://forums.bajanomad.com/viewthread.php?tid=34842
The Baja Adventure Book and Baja Almanac Map Book both spell the mine 'La Olividada'... I have been editing my posts as I come across them to what I
believe is the correct spelling 'La Olvidada' (The Forgotten) as the sign calls it and ELINVESTI8R spells it.
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64850
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
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Mood: Have Baja Fever
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An excellent book by Baja Nomad member 'GregN'... The link above takes you to the chapter on Santa Isabel.... and if you scroll down, another chapter
on the other lost mission fable 'Santa Clara' near Punta Abreojos...
The book is a good one for your own home library... Get one from Greg's web site or your favorite Baja book dealer!
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mcfez
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8678
Registered: 12-2-2009
Location: aka BN yankeeirishman
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
An excellent book by Baja Nomad member 'GregN'... The link above takes you to the chapter on Santa Isabel.... and if you scroll down, another chapter
on the other lost mission fable 'Santa Clara' near Punta Abreojos...
The book is a good one for your own home library... Get one from Greg's web site or your favorite Baja book dealer! |
Just finished this book 2 weeks ago. A must have book.
When is your book coming out David? 
Old people are like the old cars, made of some tough stuff. May show a little rust, but good as gold on the inside.
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64850
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
Member Is Offline
Mood: Have Baja Fever
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When I have seen where every dirt road in Baja goes! (may take my entire
life)
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TMW
Select Nomad
Posts: 10659
Registered: 9-1-2003
Location: Bakersfield, CA
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by larryC
About 5 years ago I rode my quad out to that arroyo, hiked around the area, and saw the "new" onyx dome. then continued on to the mine. Can't ride up
to the mine because the road is washed out just before you get there. We were able to walk to the mine, but not too interesting. Anyway back at the
"stream" can't say that I saw anything that looked old or man made. All in all though it was an interesting day. You guys will have fun.
Larry |
How far from the mine is the wash out?
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64850
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
Member Is Offline
Mood: Have Baja Fever
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| Quote: | Originally posted by TW
| Quote: | Originally posted by larryC
About 5 years ago I rode my quad out to that arroyo, hiked around the area, and saw the "new" onyx dome. then continued on to the mine. Can't ride up
to the mine because the road is washed out just before you get there. We were able to walk to the mine, but not too interesting. Anyway back at the
"stream" can't say that I saw anything that looked old or man made. All in all though it was an interesting day. You guys will have fun.
Larry |
How far from the mine is the wash out? |
Perhaps also ask (u2u?) ELINVESTIG8R (David) as he was there at La Olvidada with Sony Espinoza (I posted link to his photos)... He talked about how
they had to walk some distance to the mine from the washout.
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64850
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
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Mood: Have Baja Fever
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Now here's the book we all need to read before the search begins!
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elbeau
Nomad
Posts: 256
Registered: 3-2-2011
Location: Austin, TX
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New View Of The Mission Site
While waiting for our first report from TW, I'm going to revise what I think is our best view of the mission site. Looking from a better angle made a
lot of new things make sense. I don't have a drawing yet like my first view of the site, but take a look from a northern perspective and you'll see
that I had the landslide going uphill 
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elbeau
Nomad
Posts: 256
Registered: 3-2-2011
Location: Austin, TX
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...Also, once you get this perspective, take a look at the top of the groove where the arches are.
Also, 10 points to whoever can find the feature that looks like a car from the 20's
Meanwhile...I wait...and I wait...and I wait...to see if I'm sane or not
If TW does confirm the existence of the site then I'll post a WHOLE LOT more that is in and around the arroyo area.
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mtgoat666
Select Nomad
Posts: 18377
Registered: 9-16-2006
Location: San Diego
Member Is Offline
Mood: Hot n spicy
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| Quote: | Originally posted by elbeau
While waiting for our first report from TW, I'm going to revise what I think is our best view of the mission site. Looking from a better angle made a
lot of new things make sense. I don't have a drawing yet like my first view of the site, but take a look from a northern perspective and you'll see
that I had the landslide going uphill
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elbow:
i suppose you should be allowed to dream,...
i just think you are imagining things. your images are such that you are either foolish, dumb, or a sly fox trying to prank some unsuspecting rube to
waste a day in the desert while you cackle in your lair in nevada. 
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elbeau
Nomad
Posts: 256
Registered: 3-2-2011
Location: Austin, TX
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| Quote: | Originally posted by mtgoat666
elbow:
i suppose you should be allowed to dream,...
i just think you are imagining things. your images are such that you are either foolish, dumb, or a sly fox trying to prank some unsuspecting rube to
waste a day in the desert while you cackle in your lair in nevada.
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Wow, a flamer. I never would have guessed someone would mock me in an internet forum...so painful 
...but for anyone else following this thread, it's still quite interesting to look around and Google updated a lot of their data recently. Talking to
DK and others it appears the arroyo was used for a travel route around 1905 +/- and it's possible some or much of what we're looking at could date
from that time, but I still think there's a good enough case for older ruins to warrant investigation. We'll see I guess
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GregN
Nomad
Posts: 100
Registered: 5-13-2004
Location: Palm Springs
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Fascinating thread. I just read the entire discussion with interest and was surprised to see that a couple of you mentioned my book Baja Legends.
Thanks. I appreciate your kind words. It goes to show that a "lost treasure" is always a hot topic. If I ever did a revision, I'd have to include
these latest endeavors. Good luck. Greg
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Baja Bucko
Nomad
Posts: 288
Registered: 9-23-2003
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A few years back I was riding el camino real in a certain part of Baja. The camp one nite was at an old corral and I knew the history of the area and
who owned the brand and lands now etc. The vaquero acting as guide pretty much traveled the area as a kid chasing cattle and discussed what he knew
of the history in the old family.
The next morning I went exploring and found underneath heavy overgrown brush the rock foundation of a huge rectangular building. All that was left
was the 4 corners and long wall bases-all of rock. The corners were perfectly squared.
I returned to camp and asked my friend about what I'd found. He was surprised and wanted to see the site. After a short hike I dug under the brush
and showed him-he was surprised to say the least. We spent much of the morning searching the site-like 2 kids in a candy store. He knew the history
back to 1900 but before that -not. I knew the history of el camino real and was stumped as this was no visita and too big to be a house but sure
enough, it was something. Our guess was possibly a storehouse of some sort-possibly mission-era as these lands were cattle lands for the nearest
mission..... but nothing in the way of a place name existed other than the family name of the ranch on which the site was located.
I asked Harry about it once and he, too, was perplexed because of the area. There are lots of mysteries in Baja. Finding one is a thrill that is
hard to put into words. To this day no one has looked into what we found and it still lies hidden, disguised by deeply overgrown brush in a place far
far from any road or trail fit for wheels.
My other 4WD is a Baja Mule!
La Mula Mil Survivor 2013-2014!
1000 miles by mule from the tip to Tecate!
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64850
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
Member Is Offline
Mood: Have Baja Fever
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| Quote: | Originally posted by GregN
Fascinating thread. I just read the entire discussion with interest and was surprised to see that a couple of you mentioned my book Baja Legends.
Thanks. I appreciate your kind words. It goes to show that a "lost treasure" is always a hot topic. If I ever did a revision, I'd have to include
these latest endeavors. Good luck. Greg |
Thanks Greg!
Here's a photo of us back in Oct. 2000 at Viva Baja #1, just a bit before your second Baja book was published, Baja Legends...
Nomads also there at Viva Baja #1 who are online now, were Baja Amigos back then: Amo Pescar, Ken Cooke and Jack Swords were there, as well as Doug
Means (Baja Nomad), Paulina, Taco Felix (Jay), David E, Juan del Rio, etc.
Baja has a way of getting into our blood and it becomes a lifelong addiction!
[Edited on 3-11-2011 by David K]
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64850
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
Member Is Offline
Mood: Have Baja Fever
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Baja Bucko
A few years back I was riding el camino real in a certain part of Baja. The camp one nite was at an old corral and I knew the history of the area and
who owned the brand and lands now etc. The vaquero acting as guide pretty much traveled the area as a kid chasing cattle and discussed what he knew
of the history in the old family.
The next morning I went exploring and found underneath heavy overgrown brush the rock foundation of a huge rectangular building. All that was left
was the 4 corners and long wall bases-all of rock. The corners were perfectly squared.
I returned to camp and asked my friend about what I'd found. He was surprised and wanted to see the site. After a short hike I dug under the brush
and showed him-he was surprised to say the least. We spent much of the morning searching the site-like 2 kids in a candy store. He knew the history
back to 1900 but before that -not. I knew the history of el camino real and was stumped as this was no visita and too big to be a house but sure
enough, it was something. Our guess was possibly a storehouse of some sort-possibly mission-era as these lands were cattle lands for the nearest
mission..... but nothing in the way of a place name existed other than the family name of the ranch on which the site was located.
I asked Harry about it once and he, too, was perplexed because of the area. There are lots of mysteries in Baja. Finding one is a thrill that is
hard to put into words. To this day no one has looked into what we found and it still lies hidden, disguised by deeply overgrown brush in a place far
far from any road or trail fit for wheels. |
Very cool Bucko... but unless you tell us where to see this stone foundation, we can't help with the research. Doesn't sound like anything novice
archeologist could disturb, so no reason to keep it known to just snakes and lizards, eh?
If you want to share notes but keep it off the Internet, I have always honored those requests by their discoverers, drop me a note.
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64850
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
Member Is Offline
Mood: Have Baja Fever
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UPDATE FROM TW in San Felipe 3-11-11
I got a phone call from TW who had arrived in San Felipe today...
He went down Arroyo el Volcan...
The first site is what was thought to be a corral, large rectangle pad on the east side of the arroyo...
The arroyo cliff was perhaps 100 feet tall at that spot, so no way to see the corral feature...
On a short distance to the 'lost mission' location, on the west side of the arroyo...
"Just rocks and cactus" TW said... He climbed up for a closer look at the spot where elbeau though were arches... nothing there... TW told me he took
26 photos at the site.
I just telephoned elbeau in Texas to give him the news...
We are all curious to see the photos and see if we can figure out what would cause the affect seen on Google Earth.
Santa Isabel is still 'lost'... Keep searching Nomads (and don't forget the other lost mission in the Santa Clara Mountains near Punta Abreojos!
[Edited on 3-12-2011 by David K]
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