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Ateo
Elite Nomad
Posts: 5896
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Interesting..............
Was listening to a podcast this morning and they dedicate a lot of time to this exact subject.
If you go to itunes or just google "Skeptics' Guide To The Universe" episode 426, you will find the discussion.
Starting at the 8:30 minute mark, they discuss how hard it is to go against your own political beliefs when confronted with cold hard facts.
Our beliefs become part of our identity and it's very hard to shed that identity. There is a lot of cherry picking going on. Looking at a limited
set of data, rather than all the data in a meaningful way.
Then, at 21:00 minute mark they discuss the exact study that David brings up.
Give it a listen if you are interested.
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David K
Honored Nomad
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Thank you Jon... I am only concerned with facts and not a political belief. Science is about observations and collecting new data. Nothing is
conclusive about man made climate change despite those who repeat that over and over.
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Bajaboy
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4375
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Location: Bahia Asuncion, BCS, Mexico
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| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
Thank you Jon... I am only concerned with facts and not a political belief. Science is about observations and collecting new data. Nothing is
conclusive about man made climate change despite those who repeat that over and over. |
You mean despite what the scientists keep repeating over and over. David, I'm going to trust the scientists at NOAA way before I believe you or your
slanted journalists....you know the same ones who worked for big Tobacco.
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motoged
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6481
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Location: Kamloops, BC
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| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
Thank you Jon... I am only concerned with facts and not a political belief. Science is about observations and collecting new data. Nothing is
conclusive about man made climate change despite those who repeat that over and over. |
And one might say: "Nothing is conclusive (regarding the denial) about man made climate change despite those who repeat that over
and over. 
Don't believe everything you think....
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willardguy
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6451
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what trips me out is WHY this remains to be a nomad hot button issue??
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chuckie
Elite Nomad
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underoccupied
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willardguy
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6451
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comedic value?
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Barry A.
Select Nomad
Posts: 10007
Registered: 11-30-2003
Location: Redding, Northern CA
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Mood: optimistic
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| Quote: | Originally posted by willardguy
what trips me out is WHY this remains to be a nomad hot button issue??
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-----because it is an international "hot button" issue, I am guessing. Certain people & groups want to spend trillions off-setting something that
may not be happening at all, and even if it is there is mostly nothing we can do about it-------that's pretty "hot-button", it seems to me. 
Barry
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Iflyfish
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3747
Registered: 10-17-2006
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Barry A.
| Quote: | Originally posted by Skipjack Joe
-----------because man is a congenital liar.
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A very broad statement--------Links and sources for this conclusion would be appreciated, SkipJack.
Barry |
I'm with Skipjack on this one.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/ethics/lying/lying_1.shtml
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Barry A.
Select Nomad
Posts: 10007
Registered: 11-30-2003
Location: Redding, Northern CA
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Iflyfish
| Quote: | Originally posted by Barry A.
| Quote: | Originally posted by Skipjack Joe
-----------because man is a congenital liar.
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A very broad statement--------Links and sources for this conclusion would be appreciated, SkipJack.
Barry |
I'm with Skipjack on this one.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/ethics/lying/lying_1.shtml |
Good grief---way to complicated --------by those definitions almost everything could be a "lie". I reject many of those defnitions.
I personally do not lie, as best I know. But I probably at times say something that I believe to be true, which in fact turns out to be not true----to
me that is NOT lying.
Lying is bad-----period--------as far as I am concerned. However, I do tend to sometimes exagerate, I am told, but even that is not intentional.
Barry
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Bajaboy
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So to the naysayers....Did you also refute the thinning of the ozone layer due to use of CFCs? Well, thanks to science and people taking action,
things are getting better: http://news.discovery.com/earth/ozone-layer-earth.htm
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Iflyfish
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3747
Registered: 10-17-2006
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Ateo
Interesting..............
Was listening to a podcast this morning and they dedicate a lot of time to this exact subject.
If you go to itunes or just google "Skeptics' Guide To The Universe" episode 426, you will find the discussion.
Starting at the 8:30 minute mark, they discuss how hard it is to go against your own political beliefs when confronted with cold hard facts.
Our beliefs become part of our identity and it's very hard to shed that identity. There is a lot of cherry picking going on. Looking at a limited
set of data, rather than all the data in a meaningful way.
Then, at 21:00 minute mark they discuss the exact study that David brings up.
Give it a listen if you are interested. |
Bingo. Our primitive Neurology requires us to scan our surroundings for anomalies and then to decide danger/no, that then forms a network of neuronal
associations that get hard wired. Another way of saying this is that the human brain has evolved to be very good at pattern recognition. Once we
decide what a pattern is it is very hard to change as it is wired. God=Good, Athiest=Bad, Conservative=good/Liberal=bad and on it goes. Once these
patterns are formed then it is very easy to take in that which reinforces these neuro-networks, that are wired deep in the brain. Once we decide that
this/that matches the pattern we have formed then we are not open to input. This is the underlying neurology of the True Believer, see the book The
Believing Brain or the YouTube video http://tinyurl.com/llv5hfa
for elaboration of the replicated Psychological research that deals with this. This is why people on this site ALWAYS take predictable positions on
issues regardless of the facts. Their mind is already made up on a subconscious level that they will see the patterns that they have seen before. The
interesting thing about this is that "True Believers" are better than most at recognizing patterns even when they don't exist, it's a survival
mechanism of the brain.
Iflyfishwithmysubconsciouslookingforpatternsoffishbehavior
[Edited on 9-16-2013 by Iflyfish]
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Iflyfish
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3747
Registered: 10-17-2006
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Barry A.
| Quote: | Originally posted by Iflyfish
| Quote: | Originally posted by Barry A.
| Quote: | Originally posted by Skipjack Joe
-----------because man is a congenital liar.
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A very broad statement--------Links and sources for this conclusion would be appreciated, SkipJack.
Barry |
I'm with Skipjack on this one.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/ethics/lying/lying_1.shtml |
Good grief---way to complicated --------by those definitions almost everything could be a "lie". I reject many of those defnitions.
I personally do not lie, as best I know. But I probably at times say something that I believe to be true, which in fact turns out to be not true----to
me that is NOT lying.
Lying is bad-----period--------as far as I am concerned. However, I do tend to sometimes exagerate, I am told, but even that is not intentional.
Barry |
Ok, gotcha, my bad, exaggeration is not lying. "Do I look fat in this honey?" Good thing you always tell the truth. Good thing you always pay as much
in taxes as you possibly can. Glad you protected your kids from Santa and the Tooth Fairy. I know you always tell the cop "yes I was speeding" Good
thing you always declare everything at the border. I'm sure when you invited your date to see the submarine races with you that you actually went to
see submarine races. Good thing you have never told yourself that one more cookie wouldn't hurt the diet, or that one more drink would not impair your
driving, never seduced a women with flattery. Never bluffed in a poker game? How did you learn to do that with a straight face? We all should be so
virtuous. I am sorry that the article I referenced was too complicated. Maybe this one will be better: http://www.nytimes.com/2001/08/18/arts/must-people-lie-yes-a...
"But like a car accident on the side of the road, lies are hard to turn away from and impossible not to tell, even for those of us who pretend
otherwise. Two recent anecdotally rich books, for example, are almost obsessively preoccupied with nailing down the lie, finding its origins and, to a
certain extent, defending it. ''The Liar's Tale: A History of Falsehood'' by Jeremy Campbell, takes a broad philosophical perspective, examining ideas
about language and truth, evolution and social adaptation, the pre-Socratics and the French Deconstructionists. Mr. Campbell mourns the decline of the
concept of truth in recent philosophy, but also honors the intellectual heritage of the lie. For Evelin Sullivan, in ''The Concise Book of Lying,''
the truth about lies is explored in a more popular vein, with examples from movies, novels and politics; she offers typologies of lies and analyses of
the costs of untruths. Like Mr. Campbell, she honors truth but respects the necessity of lies."
Me: "you look beautiful" "what, I was sperding?", "Santa is someone who loves you", "They rolled away the rock and the Easter Bunny came out", "I'm
sure that is a business deduction", "Would you like to take a walk with me to see the sunset and then have a drink at my place?". But, hey, that's
just me and I do lie. I fear that as human beings our reach exceeds our grasp.
See Self Deception for elaboration:
http://skepdic.com/selfdeception.html
IflyfishandlieaboutwhatIcatch
p.s. I am glad you said "I reject many of those defnitions." which means you accept some of them, which by definition means that you accept, at least
in part, that we all lie. Good thing minimization is not lying. I guess it has to be something larger like "Obama is a Muslim Socialist who hates
white people", "Iraq has weapons of mass destruction" or "Obamacare will destroy America and bankrupt the country" for a lie to blip on your radar.
[Edited on 9-16-2013 by Iflyfish]
[Edited on 9-16-2013 by Iflyfish]
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Curt63
Super Nomad
Posts: 1171
Registered: 3-28-2009
Location: San Diego, Ca.
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Mood: Fish tacos and Tecate
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No worries
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Barry A.
Select Nomad
Posts: 10007
Registered: 11-30-2003
Location: Redding, Northern CA
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Mood: optimistic
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Well, IFLYFISH et all, I still claim that I don't intentionally lie, and none of those examples you give make me squirm as I do not do those things,
and it takes effort to accomplish that, I admit. It pays off hansomely, I believe. I have never lied to get out of a traffic ticket. My accountant
does my taxes, and I admit I don't check his reporting that much----so I don't know if it is TOTALLY accurate, but I think it is. I do know that he
saves me a lot of money by knowing what is legally deductible, but I don't think he "lies" about anything, nor do I. I do not play poker (or other
games) as I am so bad at it.
I don't believe that I have ever caught my kids since adulthood lying, nor my wife. We all work at NOT lying, successfully I believe. I am 100%
against lying, and all my Family and friends know it. The claims of those links you have provided I simply can't believe, and are incredibly
cynical----they may be right, but I simply can't believe it, nor can I relate to it. Nobody that I know of has ever claimed that I am
sanctimonious--------what others do is their business, and if proven to be lying I simple realize that they have no credibility, with me anyway, but I
seldom challenge them.
This is not a "holier than thow" statement as I really have no idea what others may do-------I normally believe folks until proven that they lie.
(Trust, but verify)
I continue to believe that most don't lie, as that is my experience, and what serves me best.
Our credibility is the most precious thing we have, bar none, IMO.
Barry
On Edit-------I do except some definitions of lying, but I don't except that means that everybody does it.
[Edited on 9-16-2013 by Barry A.]
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DianaT
Select Nomad
Posts: 10020
Registered: 12-17-2004
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Curt63
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Beautiful
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Barry A.
Select Nomad
Posts: 10007
Registered: 11-30-2003
Location: Redding, Northern CA
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Mood: optimistic
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DianaT
| Quote: | Originally posted by Curt63
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Beautiful |
What is "beautiful"?? How can we "create" a better world-------for who or what??? Impliment all the things that the Global Warming crowd wants and
the world of man shrinks to new lows, at best, IMO.
Barry
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Iflyfish
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3747
Registered: 10-17-2006
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Barry A.
Well, IFLYFISH et all, I still claim that I don't intentionally lie, and none of those examples you give make me squirm as I do not do those things,
and it takes effort to accomplish that, I admit. It pays off hansomely, I believe. I have never lied to get out of a traffic ticket. My accountant
does my taxes, and I admit I don't check his reporting that much----so I don't know if it is TOTALLY accurate, but I think it is. I do know that he
saves me a lot of money by knowing what is legally deductible, but I don't think he "lies" about anything, nor do I. I do not play poker (or other
games) as I am so bad at it.
I don't believe that I have ever caught my kids since adulthood lying, nor my wife. We all work at NOT lying, successfully I believe. I am 100%
against lying, and all my Family and friends know it. The claims of those links you have provided I simply can't believe, and are incredibly
cynical----they may be right, but I simply can't believe it, nor can I relate to it. Nobody that I know of has ever claimed that I am
sanctimonious--------what others do is their business, and if proven to be lying I simple realize that they have no credibility, with me anyway, but I
seldom challenge them.
This is not a "holier than thow" statement as I really have no idea what others may do-------I normally believe folks until proven that they lie.
(Trust, but verify)
I continue to believe that most don't lie, as that is my experience, and what serves me best.
Our credibility is the most precious thing we have, bar none, IMO.
Barry
On Edit-------I do except some definitions of lying, but I don't except that means that everybody does it.
[Edited on 9-16-2013 by Barry A.] |
I lied, I never did any of the things I said I did. There is no Santa and the Rabbit did not come out from under the rock. I know that I have a place
in heaven next to you, the Popes and the Televangelists who also have never lied. Hard to believe, I know, but there you have it. All those studies,
just theory I guess, more of that science crap, most of the subjects probably lied.  In the end another solar system is scheduled to collide with ours anyway....I'm not lying about that one. So we should do nothing about the
environment cause that's what God wants us to do so he can take care of it. We know that God is a man. See I am a Conservative too.
Iflyfishwithmytonguefirmlyimbeddedinmycheek
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Barry A.
Select Nomad
Posts: 10007
Registered: 11-30-2003
Location: Redding, Northern CA
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I am assuming that you are being sarcastic, Fish----why I can only guess. Other than that I really don't know what you are trying to say. I am an
Agnostic, and always have been.
To the best of my knowledge, I don't lie, and my close friends and Family members don't either.
You may live in a different environment than I do.
Barry
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Iflyfish
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3747
Registered: 10-17-2006
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Barry A.
| Quote: | Originally posted by DianaT
| Quote: | Originally posted by Curt63
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Beautiful |
What is "beautiful"?? How can we "create" a better world-------for who or what??? Impliment all the things that the Global Warming crowd wants and
the world of man shrinks to new lows, at best, IMO.
Barry |
You are right, mankind can do nothing to create a better world. Me, I'm not mowing my lawn any more and I am not contributing to AIDS or Cancer
research either since man cannot create a better world. Besides adding and improving water treatment plants, limiting fracking to protect water
tables, engaging in toxic waste clean up, building better coal emission scrubbers, sequestering CO2 and carbon, upgrading public sanitation,
recycling, improving air quality, decreasing acid rain, increasing use of wind and solar, building more fuel efficient cars, improving batteries and
other worthless efforts only waste money that could be invested in the stock market. I think I have that right.
Iflyfishwithnehilistnomadamigos
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