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LancairDriver
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| Quote: | Originally posted by rts551
| Quote: | Originally posted by LancairDriver
| Quote: | Originally posted by rts551
| Quote: | Originally posted by LancairDriver
Another point of view. My company has paid 100% on an average of 35 employees for the past 25 years. $2,500 deductible has been the average, and the
cost has been about $850.00 per month per employee. Each year at renewal time the employees have helped to make the choices on the policy. Surgery's
have ranged from quad bypasses to appendix removals and no one has gone ever gone bankrupt or exceeded the coverage. Most have had no medical issues
at all.
However, this year our policy that has served everyone well for years was deemed inadequate because we didn't have pediatric dental and furnish free
contraceptives required by ACA which no one wanted or needed. The alternative "acceptable" plan now costs $1,230/mo./employee. Guess what? We are not
a government operation and we can't take a 50% hit, so the employees are now required to pay the extra $400/mo. to make up the difference. So now
collectively the employees have to all take a bite of the extra $14,000/mo.for coverage that previously cost them nothing. Do you think they feel
better off?
So far most of the cheering for ACA has been from those who have taxpayer subsidized government coverage or are employed in a taxpayer supported job.
No consideration is given to the private sector that generates the tax dollars to pay for this. Yes I know government employees pay taxes also,
however
taxes paid with tax payer generated dollars fall way short of even. Thousands of presently employed people will be having hours cut and pay the price
for this in other ways if it isn't modified or eliminated.
These are some real facts from one in the private sector who drive 90% of employment in the job market. |
seems like a no brainer to me. If the insurance company is raising the rates by that much for pediatric dental and rubbers then I would look for
another insurance company (which you say is partly your responsibility). |
Do you honestly think that after pouring millions of dollars into healthcare insurance policy's over 25 years that we don't know how to shop for the
best deals in insurance? Maybe you would be interested in consulting for us since you seem to know so much about insurance. |
Jesus. I did not question your integrity. Take a chill pill and charge it to your A+ plan. |
Sorry RT, just the way I read it. We spend a lot of time beating up Insurance agents trying to pound out the best deal. Every year at renewal time it
is the same game. We win some and loose some, but each year give up a little more in features or cash. This year it has been a lot, and we ran out of
options for the first time.
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rts551
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Posts: 6700
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| Quote: | Originally posted by LancairDriver
| Quote: | Originally posted by rts551
| Quote: | Originally posted by LancairDriver
| Quote: | Originally posted by rts551
| Quote: | Originally posted by LancairDriver
Another point of view. My company has paid 100% on an average of 35 employees for the past 25 years. $2,500 deductible has been the average, and the
cost has been about $850.00 per month per employee. Each year at renewal time the employees have helped to make the choices on the policy. Surgery's
have ranged from quad bypasses to appendix removals and no one has gone ever gone bankrupt or exceeded the coverage. Most have had no medical issues
at all.
However, this year our policy that has served everyone well for years was deemed inadequate because we didn't have pediatric dental and furnish free
contraceptives required by ACA which no one wanted or needed. The alternative "acceptable" plan now costs $1,230/mo./employee. Guess what? We are not
a government operation and we can't take a 50% hit, so the employees are now required to pay the extra $400/mo. to make up the difference. So now
collectively the employees have to all take a bite of the extra $14,000/mo.for coverage that previously cost them nothing. Do you think they feel
better off?
So far most of the cheering for ACA has been from those who have taxpayer subsidized government coverage or are employed in a taxpayer supported job.
No consideration is given to the private sector that generates the tax dollars to pay for this. Yes I know government employees pay taxes also,
however
taxes paid with tax payer generated dollars fall way short of even. Thousands of presently employed people will be having hours cut and pay the price
for this in other ways if it isn't modified or eliminated.
These are some real facts from one in the private sector who drive 90% of employment in the job market. |
seems like a no brainer to me. If the insurance company is raising the rates by that much for pediatric dental and rubbers then I would look for
another insurance company (which you say is partly your responsibility). |
Do you honestly think that after pouring millions of dollars into healthcare insurance policy's over 25 years that we don't know how to shop for the
best deals in insurance? Maybe you would be interested in consulting for us since you seem to know so much about insurance. |
Jesus. I did not question your integrity. Take a chill pill and charge it to your A+ plan. |
Sorry RT, just the way I read it. We spend a lot of time beating up Insurance agents trying to pound out the best deal. Every year at renewal time it
is the same game. We win some and loose some, but each year give up a little more in features or cash. This year it has been a lot, and we ran out of
options for the first time. |
Its been happening for a while. 5-6 years ago really took a jump. Thats why I do not think it is the ACA. It really hurts when you are on a fixed
retirement income.
Unlike Barry, I think if you get sick you are not going to be able to crawl off and die. Hospice care is a reality for a lot of elderly with chronic
diseases and someone has to pay. We have all probably had someone close to home die of cancer and you just don't fade away. Therefore some kind of
insurance is a must for most of us or we live off the free care someone else funds.
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oxxo
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| Quote: | Originally posted by absinvestor
oxxo- I don't like the ACA and you do. I won't change your mind and you won't change mine. |
To repeat myself......I think the ACA is a flawed and complex system when compared to a "socialized" system like in Canada or Switzerland where the
feedback is overwhelmingly positive. I favor a "socialized" single payer system like the countries referenced rather than the ACA. So your
presumptions are incorrect on a number of accounts.
So you don't like the ACA and you are going to do everything possible to see it doesn't work. You are not the only one with that mindset. I am not
in favor of the ACA when compared to a single payer system, but I am going to do everything possible to see it does work!
| Quote: | | However, the feedback from Colorado Kaiser is much different than the feedback you received at your California Christmas party.
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Your anecdotal evidence is no more reliable than mine. You completely missed my point, for every anecdote you provide, I can provide the opposite and
vice versa. I have three immediate family members who are healthcare doctors (one of them applying to Kaiser). They are all wildly enthusiastic
about the ACA as a first step toward a comprehensive health care system in the US. They say that thinking the ACA will reduce physicians and
hospitals is a myth and not supported by AMA data. However, Kaiser is recognized as a leader in comprehensive health care by any measure. Let's see
if we run out of doctors and hospitals before we ASSUME they will! They sure didn't in Canada and Switzerland.
| Quote: | | In addition to our 2 Kaiser Dr's I spoke to a neighbor who recently had a colonoscopy and to his wife who had just gone in for a mamogram. Their Dr's
feedback was similar to what our Dr said- fewer Dr's and hospitals. Summary of their opinions- bad deal. |
Yep, Kaiser mammogram = free. Kaiser colonoscopy = less than $100. How much would they have cost in the non-conforming Blue Cross plan?
Let me guess......your neighbor does not Like the ACA any better than you do, no matter what a doctor might say. His mind won't be changed either.
| Quote: | | Your comment that just because our kids liked their plan doesn't mean it is a good plan is insulting. Both are highly educated, run successful
businesses and have substantial earnings and assets. They elected to have plans that didn't cover day to day medical expenses but that would cover a
catastrophic event. |
Your comment that highly educated people with substantial earnings and assets with pre-existing conditions, a pregnancy, and with children in need of
dental care should not qualify for insurance is highly insulting! Wouldn't it be wonderful if everyone was as wealthy as your kids and could afford
to pay several thousand a month for health care if need be! We wouldn't need the ACA in that case.
| Quote: | | Rather than trying to reinvent our entire medical system he could have garnered majority support for a plan that helped underinsured and the non
insured. Instead, we now have a program that the majority of US taxpayers don't agree with. |
Is that what you said to Romney? The President asked the Republicans to come up with an alternate and they came up with............nothing! Whether
Americans agree with ACA or not depends on whether you watch Faux Gnus.
[Edited on 12-16-2013 by oxxo]
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dasubergeek
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Switzerland is not a single-payer system; everyone in Switzerland holds private insurance, and those who need assistance are given premium assistance;
there is no government-run health plan, even for government employees.
Canada and the U.K. are single-payer system; France has a hybrid between the two.
I don't support a single-payer system. I trust (relatively speaking) the government to set minimum standards for coverage, but I do not trust the
government to run a healthcare plan, Medicare notwithstanding.
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measomsan
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It's not AcA..it is Obamacare. Pass by one party with the other not invited. No one read the dam thing. The speaker of the house said, well,you know.
This is how the left does things. No one thinks it out. Just react with Feeling Good. What a heap of crap. Now it has to be cleaned up. And they
don't care. Cause they Feel Good. I had 15 employees, paid ALL their insurance, 401k . And more. Now the government wants their stinky fingers on 401k
plans. Never stops. I'm out, worked hard and made it. So happy people taking down the good old USA, proud you must be.
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oxxo
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| Quote: | Originally posted by LancairDriver
Very good example of the free enterprise system at work, very little government intervention (FDR lifting the draft notice for the Doctor)
Today Henry Kaiser would be reviled as one of the hated 1%. How times have changed |
So if Kaiser is a "Very good example of the free enterprise system at work, very little government intervention," where was Blue Cross, United
HealthCare, Magellan, Anthem, and all the others when they could have provided a good example of the free enterprise system? They were not being
responsible and the government had to step in. I would have preferred that they be responsible and keep the government out, but they weren't.
Your rhetoric and hyperbole exceed the facts. No one reviles the hated one percent. The 1% are only reviled when they don't pay their fair share
unlike Henry Kaiser, or Carnegie, or some contemporaries like Warren Buffet. Let's see....who was the Presidential candidate who hid his assets in
offshore accounts to avoid his taxes?
| Quote: | Originally posted by bajaguy
How about if the parents of the daughter, or better yet, the parents of the father be responsible for the costs of the "unplanned"
pregnancy????........And pregnancy is never "unplanned", it should be expected when people engage in "those activities". |
That's who I am talking about, the parents of that 16 y.o. If the parents of that 16 y.o. don't have ACA qualified insurance they would say they
could not afford to pay for the "planned" pregnancy (there does that make you feel better?), and it would be up to the taxpayer to provide healthcare
for that 16 y.o. and her unemployed consort. There are many Republican controlled State legislatures that are wanting to ban insurance coverage of
contraceptives. Thank you, you are making my argument for me.
| Quote: | | Originally posted by LancairDriverWe spend a lot of time beating up Insurance agents trying to pound out the best deal. Every year at renewal
time it is the same game. We win some and loose some, but each year give up a little more in features or cash. This year it has been a lot, and we ran
out of options for the first time. |
I applaud you and your company for your proactive policy of providing health care for your employees. You have done way more than most employers.
However, health care needs have changed and it is only fair that you ask your employees to contribute about 33% of the health premiums for expanded
coverage. You have done more than your share, it is now time for your employees to do their share. I think if push came to shove, you and I are not
that far apart.
| Quote: | Originally posted by Cypress
oxxo, How would we know what the Repubs came up with. As far as I can tell their activities, if positive, are censured. We're only getting propaganda
from the usual left wing sources. Sooner or later the facts will come out. Come on. Give it some thought.  |
 Another conspiracy theorist! Yeah, like someone is censoring Ted Cruz and Rand Paul
and Faux Gnus. John Boner is the only one who wants to censor those guys!
Okay, then YOU tell me what the Republican plan is for health care reform. I am all ears!
| Quote: | Originally posted by measomsan
It's not AcA..it is Obamacare. Pass by one party with the other not invited. |
Okay, if that's the way you want it, lets then call it RomneyCare because it is essentially his plan. And let's go even further, let's not call it
Social Security, lets call it Franklin Roosevelt Security. And the biggest percentage deficit increase in the economy, let's call it Dubya Debt.
Let's give credit where credit is due.
You want to call it ObamaCare now but in a few years when the thing is running smoothly and everyone loves it, you will want to call it the ACA.
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oxxo
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| Quote: | Originally posted by dasubergeek
Switzerland is not a single-payer system; everyone in Switzerland holds private insurance, ...................
I don't support a single-payer system. I trust (relatively speaking) the government to set minimum standards for coverage, but I do not trust the
government to run a healthcare plan, Medicare notwithstanding. |
Thanks Geek for your clarification, I am corrected. Does that mean that the Swiss system is somewhat similar to the ACA? I love my government
Medicare program run by a private provider. The program runs to near perfection. I wish all Americans had access to the same plan I have.
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absinvestor
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oxxo- Possibly I didn't explain my point. I think that something needs to be done for those with preexisting conditions etc- the point was that the
kids had insurance to cover a catastrophic event and they had sufficient liquid assets to cover Dr visits, broken legs etc. It was a plan that they
liked. The son-in-law had a preventative colonoscopy earlier this year. His insurance didn't cover it and he paid $854 for the procedure. (The Dr
said the bill was normally $1100 but since the son-in-law paid immediately he was given a discount.) Our daughter had a preventative mammogram and
paid about $400. The $1254 that they paid amounted to about two months of a "full coverage" policy premium. After retiring from a major corporation
that didn't provide retirement health insurance my wife and I elected to get a high deductible "junk plan." That plan did not cover Dr visits etc but
did cover a catastrophic event up to 5 million $. For the 6+ years that we had that policy we saved about $10,000/year in premiums. I don't have
access to exact records but estimate we spent about $3000 in preventative colonoscopys, annual physicals etc. Granted we are healthy but up to the
point we qualified for medicare we were about $57000 ahead. Again, our policy did cover a major event ie heart attack etc. I just think that we should
have worked on the population that couldn't get insurance and reducing premiums vs denying those that had policies they liked.
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mtgoat666
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| Quote: | Originally posted by measomsan
It's not AcA..it is Obamacare. Pass by one party with the other not invited. |
it seems to me that the big issue is the exchanges and insurance coverage mandate -- silly complainers! The exchanges and requirements are basically
Massachusetts RomneyCare system rolled out to other states 
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oxxo
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| Quote: | Originally posted by absinvestor
oxxo- Possibly I didn't explain my point. I think that something needs to be done for those with preexisting conditions etc- |
Amigo, we are in this together. I suspect we both want the same results. Yes, pre-existing conditions, maternity, pediatric dentistry, high
premiums, etc. were something that needed to be addressed. Unfortunately, private enterprise was not addressing it. The Republicans, other than
Romney in MA, wouldn't address it. So the President had to step in and do something. Now we have something that I am not completely happy with, you
will never be happy with, but it is a step in the right direction. I wish that private enterprise had been a responsible player like Kaiser, but they
weren't.
| Quote: | | the point was that the kids had insurance to cover a catastrophic event and they had sufficient liquid assets to cover Dr visits, broken legs etc. It
was a plan that they liked. |
Great, I wish the Walmart worker had the same assets your children have. But let's consider the unthinkable - suppose your SIL came down with colon
cancer and had to quit his job as a result. Suppose your daughter came down with breast cancer at the same time and had to quit her job. What
happens to that insurance plan they liked but can no longer afford their premiums? Suppose they both thankfully recover and get new jobs but they
can't get insurance because of pre-existing conditions under the pre-ACA programs, ever again? ABS, your kids had junk plans.
| Quote: | | The son-in-law had a preventative colonoscopy earlier this year. His insurance didn't cover it and he paid $854 for the procedure. (The Dr said the
bill was normally $1100 but since the son-in-law paid immediately he was given a discount.) Our daughter had a preventative mammogram and paid about
$400. The $1254 that they paid amounted to about two months of a "full coverage" policy premium. |
Again GREAT! But what about those people who can't afford $854 for colonoscopy or $400 for a mammogram? So they don't go to the doctor and they come
down with colon cancer or breast cancer and then you and I, taxpayers, have to pick up the tab. Not so GREAT.
| Quote: | | After retiring from a major corporation that didn't provide retirement health insurance my wife and I elected to get a high deductible "junk plan."
That plan did not cover Dr visits etc but did cover a catastrophic event up to 5 million $. For the 6+ years that we had that policy we saved about
$10,000/year in premiums. I don't have access to exact records but estimate we spent about $3000 in preventative colonoscopys, annual physicals etc.
Granted we are healthy but up to the point we qualified for medicare we were about $57000 ahead. |
I don't doubt what you say, but that $57000 and $5M limit would have evaporated overnight if you had both come down with cancer or heart disease, or a
stroke during those five years. You rolled the dice during that period and you came out ahead. I am a candidate for colon cancer as a result of
genetics. Why aren't we men as concerned about what comes out the exit as we are about how good it tastes when it goes in the entrance? I get a
colonoscopy every three years by doctors orders. Costs me less than $100 a pop. So far, so good. I wish everyone had the same health benefits I
have.
| Quote: | | Again, our policy did cover a major event ie heart attack etc. I just think that we should have worked on the population that couldn't get insurance
and reducing premiums vs denying those that had policies they liked. |
The insurance industry had the opportunity to do that and they didn't. If you want to blame someone, blame them not Obama for trying to fix an
industry wide problem.
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Osprey
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What will the future hold: Headlines in all the major news outlets, Jan 4, 2014
A statement by the President: "If you like the ACA you can keep it, period."
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tripledigitken
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Request to cut and pasters....
Please include author/poster identity in the quote boxes.
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Pescador
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You know, the old adage of you can lead a horse to water. I spent my life helping people make smart decisions about how to wisely protect themselves
aned their assets in the insurance maze. I went to Cuba to see the socialized medicine that was practiced there and it is a total disaster. Always
chasing more medications and while it is easy to see a doctor, try real hard to find one Lithotrope machine in all of Cuba, while any small hospital
in the US has one at ready. I have a dear friend in Canada who needs a hip replacement and only waited two years to get to see the specialist and
then another 2 1/2 years to finally get the surgery done. You bet, that is a wonderful standard to hold up and spew the information that we have
universal health care coverage.
I know it went over every ones head who is a little left leaning, but when I sold a good plan with a 2 million lifetime coverage, all I had to do
was to move them to the state mandated plan if they were going to go over that because of a serious illness.
When we had a true free enterprise system of healthcare in the United States, we were the standard of the world and we developed systems, treatments
and medicines that helped people treat illnesses that could not be treated anywhere else in the world.
But now, with a single swipe of the pen, we are pushed in to a health plan that less than half of the people in the United States support or agree
with. We have literally driven a stake through the heart of the health care delivery system that was the standard of the world.
But we can be really proud, we have pushed together a system that does not function at all in terms of signing up, we have only begun to feel the pain
with people who will be receiving substandard care in a system that can not have a glimmer of working, if you understand anything about qualitative
care. And yet they threw lots of crap at Palin when she said they were going to be making end of life decisions based only on guidlines from Health
and Human Services.
So, where we once were the standard of the world in terms of health care delivery, research and development, now we are turning into a third world
country and working on ways to effeciently pass out pills and dispense medications. Thank goodness I am nearing my end of life and am comfortable
with the idea that it was easier to move to Mexico where the system was substandard, but at least it was simple and I can choose whether to partake or
not. The only sad point is that my offspring are stuck with a monster that may take years to straighten out, it ever. But when we have no problems
leaving our next generation with unpaid debt and continued irresponsibility towards ever fixing the unpaid debt.
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rts551
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6700
Registered: 9-5-2003
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Pescador
You know, the old adage of you can lead a horse to water. I spent my life helping people make smart decisions about how to wisely protect themselves
aned their assets in the insurance maze. I went to Cuba to see the socialized medicine that was practiced there and it is a total disaster. Always
chasing more medications and while it is easy to see a doctor, try real hard to find one Lithotrope machine in all of Cuba, while any small hospital
in the US has one at ready. I have a dear friend in Canada who needs a hip replacement and only waited two years to get to see the specialist and
then another 2 1/2 years to finally get the surgery done. You bet, that is a wonderful standard to hold up and spew the information that we have
universal health care coverage.
I know it went over every ones head who is a little left leaning, but when I sold a good plan with a 2 million lifetime coverage, all I had to do
was to move them to the state mandated plan if they were going to go over that because of a serious illness.
When we had a true free enterprise system of healthcare in the United States, we were the standard of the world and we developed systems, treatments
and medicines that helped people treat illnesses that could not be treated anywhere else in the world.
But now, with a single swipe of the pen, we are pushed in to a health plan that less than half of the people in the United States support or agree
with. We have literally driven a stake through the heart of the health care delivery system that was the standard of the world.
But we can be really proud, we have pushed together a system that does not function at all in terms of signing up, we have only begun to feel the pain
with people who will be receiving substandard care in a system that can not have a glimmer of working, if you understand anything about qualitative
care. And yet they threw lots of crap at Palin when she said they were going to be making end of life decisions based only on guidlines from Health
and Human Services.
So, where we once were the standard of the world in terms of health care delivery, research and development, now we are turning into a third world
country and working on ways to effeciently pass out pills and dispense medications. Thank goodness I am nearing my end of life and am comfortable
with the idea that it was easier to move to Mexico where the system was substandard, but at least it was simple and I can choose whether to partake or
not. The only sad point is that my offspring are stuck with a monster that may take years to straighten out, it ever. But when we have no problems
leaving our next generation with unpaid debt and continued irresponsibility towards ever fixing the unpaid debt. |
from a right leaning group...we ranked very poorly overall in for health care systems
http://www.businessinsider.com/best-healthcare-systems-in-th...
another (little less right)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Health_Organization_ranki...
[Edited on 12-17-2013 by rts551]
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oxxo
Banned
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Pescador
I spent my life helping people make smart decisions about how to wisely protect themselves aned their assets in the insurance maze.
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Then why does your company, Blue Cross, rate so low in customer satisfaction?
| Quote: | | I went to Cuba to see the socialized medicine that was practiced there and it is a total disaster. |
Did you go to Somalia where they have a "free enterprise" medical system and it is a total disaster?
| Quote: | | I have a dear friend in Canada who needs a hip replacement and only waited two years to get to see the specialist and then another 2 1/2 years to
finally get the surgery done. |
Probably true. My Mexican neighbor, a retired hospital chief executive in Canada said that non-essential and elective medical care is given a lower
priority. They deal with emergencies first. BTW, she loves her Canadian socialized insurance.
| Quote: | | when I sold a good plan with a 2 million lifetime coverage, all I had to do was to move them to the state mandated plan if they were going to go over
that because of a serious illness. |
Push it off on the taxpayers. That would make sense to Blue Cross and their execs.
| Quote: | | When we had a true free enterprise system of healthcare in the United States, we were the standard of the world and we developed systems, treatments
and medicines that helped people treat illnesses that could not be treated anywhere else in the world. |
What century are we talking about here?
| Quote: | | We have literally driven a stake through the heart of the health care delivery system that was the standard of the world...........So, where we once
were the standard of the world in terms of health care delivery, research and development, now we are turning into a third world country and working
on ways to effeciently pass out pills and dispense medications. |
You are out of touch. The US has not been the p****** of world health care in years. You are living a myth.
| Quote: | | But we can be really proud, we have pushed together a system that does not function at all in terms of signing up, we have only begun to feel the pain
with people who will be receiving substandard care in a system that can not have a glimmer of working, if you understand anything about qualitative
care. |
Your crystal ball is a bit clouded. We need to give the ACA a chance to work before we condemn it.
| Quote: | | And yet they threw lots of crap at Palin when she said they were going to be making end of life decisions based only on guidlines from Health and
Human Services. |
Please Para Salin, run for national office again in 2016, I need more comedy in my
life
| Quote: | | Thank goodness I am nearing my end of life and am comfortable with the idea that it was easier to move to Mexico where the system was substandard,
but at least it was simple and I can choose whether to partake or not. |
If you become seriously ill you will be begging for medical care wherever you can get it - substandard or not.
| Quote: | | The only sad point is that my offspring are stuck with a monster that may take years to straighten out, it ever. But when we have no problems leaving
our next generation with unpaid debt and continued irresponsibility towards ever fixing the unpaid debt. |
We can fix the national debt, just raise Federal taxes. They have never been lower since the 1950's.
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Paula
Super Nomad
Posts: 2219
Registered: 1-5-2006
Location: Loreto
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Just want to say thank you to oxxo for his clarity and patience on this thread.
It isn't often that I agree with anyone 100%, let alone any Nomad
I'm not sure that the American health system has ever been the best in the world, and it certainly isn't today. Many people who aren't in favor of
the ACA feel the way they do because it doesn't go far enough. My home state senator, Max Baucus has a lot to do with that, as he negotiated with
great respect and consideration for the insurance and pharmaceutical companies that own him.
So if you combine those who feel positive about the ACA and those who want a system that cuts out the middle man, the majority of Americans do favor
major changes to our health care delivery system. And this is in spite of the talking points, or outright lies of the GOP and the not so liberal
press.
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dasubergeek
Senior Nomad
Posts: 694
Registered: 8-17-2013
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by oxxo
Thanks Geek for your clarification, I am corrected. Does that mean that the Swiss system is somewhat similar to the ACA? I love my government
Medicare program run by a private provider. The program runs to near perfection. I wish all Americans had access to the same plan I have.
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The Swiss system is essentially identical to the ACA. Somewhere upthread, on page 4 or maybe the top of this page, is an explanation of the Swiss
system that I wrote this morning.
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dasubergeek
Senior Nomad
Posts: 694
Registered: 8-17-2013
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by oxxo
We can fix the national debt, just raise Federal taxes. They have never been lower since the 1950's. |
This is something that bemuses me; I hear a lot of people moaning about the 1950s, when America was at her post-WWII peak of productivity. Well, there
were tax brackets above 90% until the early 70s; then they went to about 75%. It wasn't until Reagan that the tax structure collapsed to two brackets,
15% and 28%.
When I hear conservatives calling for a return to the old ways, I assume they mean the social conservatism of the 1950s and the tax structure of the
1980s, except that one funded the other. We had fantastic educational systems, a good medical system, and the largest expansion of infrastructure
since the railroads of the mid-19th century... all financed by taxes of 91% on people making the equivalent in 2013 dollars of $1.9M. If you made the
1950 equivalent of today's $500,000, you paid 75% federal income tax. If you made the equivalent of today's $250,000, you paid 62%; today's $100,000
paid 38%, and today's $50,000 paid 26%.
(Source: http://taxfoundation.org/article/us-federal-individual-incom... - second chart, seriously addicting to look at)
Also, just because I prefer full disclosure, I am a centrist; I believe the government has a role, and I don't like nanny states.
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Timo1
Senior Nomad
Posts: 754
Registered: 11-2-2007
Location: Homeless
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Mood: Lovin every minute of it
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I guess medical ins. in Canada isn't so bad after all
Barb and I are paid up till oct. 2014
The year cost us $1200 and covers a sprained ankle to brain sugeory(sp)
Waiting times are LONG for elective stuff though
Oh and it doesn't cover an ambulance ride
sold out and got out !!!
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vgabndo
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3461
Registered: 12-8-2003
Location: Mt. Shasta, CA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Checking-off my bucket list.
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Even in that, Tim, there is something telling about our system. Before I had Medicare I got cancer and my A+ private insurance was billed $2,999.00
for a 62 mile non-emergency ambulance transport between sister hospitals. $48. a mile! Is it any wonder my Union Health insurance is going broke?
Had I known it was a hold up I could have driven myself and saved all that co-pay!
Undoubtedly, there are people who cannot afford to give the anchor of sanity even the slightest tug. Sam Harris
"The situation is far too dire for pessimism."
Bill Kauth
Carl Sagan said, "We are a way for the cosmos to know itself."
PEACE, LOVE AND FISH TACOS
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