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motoged
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A good read if anyone wants some more insight to the concept.
It would appear some folks aren't willing to accept the notion of "the common good" and perhaps this will always be the case in the discussion of pros
and cons.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_contract
Don't believe everything you think....
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JDCanuck
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My ancestors(Quakers) came to America to escape societal demands they were under in Europe, their descendants went to Northern Canada to seek new
opportunities and fewer imposed restrictions, now we seek that less restrictive life in Baja. I wonder where our descendants will escape to.
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motoged
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Quote: Originally posted by JDCanuck  | | My ancestors(Quakers) came to America to escape societal demands they were under in Europe, their descendants went to Northern Canada to seek new
opportunities and fewer imposed restrictions, now we seek that less restrictive life in Baja. I wonder where our descendants will escape to.
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History can help us understand our current situations at times.
Three of my four grandparents moved from Europe to Canada in the early 1900's to seek a better life.
When did your ancestors move to northern Canada?
Don't believe everything you think....
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JDCanuck
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Just after the civil war. Story was cousins were on opposite sides and it got a bit hairy between them. Our branch was from the North. Values came
with them. I remember the later ones that I saw as deeply religious, tolerant and inclusive. Values I'd like to pass on to my grandkids and great
grandkids.
[Edited on 8-9-2021 by JDCanuck]
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Don Pisto
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Mood: weary like everyone else
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who brought the poutine? I'd like to shake his hand!
there's only two things in life but I forget what they are........
John Hiatt
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JDCanuck
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Unlike so many today, I feel tremendous debt to my uncles and my Dad, all of whom were in Europe for WWII as young men. They came back seeing how
great we had it and how bad it could get if we didn't continuously defend the values our countries were built on. We should not be too quick to
surrender what they protected.
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motoged
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My recollection of Quaker history is that by the time of the civil war in the USA saw the Quakers shifting their ideology ( starting in the mid
1700's) from supporting slavery to, for some, opposing it and being instrumental in setting up the underground railway system supporting fleeing
slaves.
As their internal factions continued to fight amongst themselves, the American Quakers developed into supporting better treatment of mentally ill, a
commitment to pacifism, and continued and increased their work in the areas of social justice and equality.
In the first half of the 1900's this developing liberalism became another split in ideologies with this evangelical following. In the last half of the
1900's, Quakers were clearly supporting same-sex marriage, gay rights, and women's rights to abortion. By the end of the 1900's this "liberalism"
became an issue for some based on the long-standing conflict within the Quaker movement of spiritual practice unencumbered by religious practice.
Seems like they have been on the move since the 1600's.... not so much since the mid-1800's.
Why not Baja ? Quaker or not.
Don't believe everything you think....
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JDCanuck
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Most of that post is as it was told to me. This is why I find it so odd to hear religious people increasingly spoken of as intolerant, abusive and
non-inclusive by those who teach our children history, and more so by people in government that maintain because of their inherent belief system they
should be excluded from public office. How can anyone who has a firmly embedded ethical belief system be forced to abandon their ethics because
someone else does not hold to the same ethics?
Quakers themselves were subjected to abuse because their particular beliefs were not in alignment with those who controlled the standards of the time.
Freedom of Religion was crafted around that same time, along with freedoms of speech.
And we have drifted WAY off topic...we'll discuss this if we ever get together in person
[Edited on 8-10-2021 by JDCanuck]
[Edited on 8-10-2021 by JDCanuck]
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mtgoat666
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| Quote: Originally posted by JDCanuck | | My ancestors(Quakers) came to America to escape societal demands they were under in Europe, their descendants went to Northern Canada to seek new
opportunities and fewer imposed restrictions, now we seek that less restrictive life in Baja. I wonder where our descendants will escape to.
|
People in usa like to think their ancestors emigrated from europe to usa for noble reasons of freedom, religion , etc.
fact is that 99.9% of immigrants left Europe due to lack of economic opportunity, famine, etc.
They brought their religious baggage, and then created fables about religious persecution, freedom, etc. makes for good stories.
Woke!
“...ask not what your country can do for you – ask what you can do for your country.” “My fellow citizens of the world: ask not what America
will do for you, but what together we can do for the freedom of man.”
Prefered gender pronoun: the royal we
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AguaDulce
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Fact? Well, my mother after concentration camp escape came here. Wanted to start a new life. She must be the .1 percent
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SFandH
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| Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666 | | Quote: Originally posted by JDCanuck | | My ancestors(Quakers) came to America to escape societal demands they were under in Europe, their descendants went to Northern Canada to seek new
opportunities and fewer imposed restrictions, now we seek that less restrictive life in Baja. I wonder where our descendants will escape to.
|
People in usa like to think their ancestors emigrated from europe to usa for noble reasons of freedom, religion , etc.
fact is that 99.9% of immigrants left Europe due to lack of economic opportunity, famine, etc.
They brought their religious baggage, and then created fables about religious persecution, freedom, etc. makes for good stories.
|
Come on Goat, that's a wild exaggeration. People have been moving to North America from Europe for 400 years for all sorts of reasons. I know my
western European ancestors moved here because they knew someday a descendant (me) would want to hang out at a southern California beach and ride
waves. They were right. 
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JDCanuck
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fact is that 99.9% of immigrants left Europe due to lack of economic opportunity, famine, etc.
Well, thats a story for another day from the other side. You must have Irish blood too eh? Smugglers, thieves, drunkards, fighters, boy is that side
ever interesting! Yet, somehow they too managed to fit into this increasingly varied and interesting society.
[Edited on 8-10-2021 by JDCanuck]
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mtgoat666
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| Quote: Originally posted by SFandH | | Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666 | | Quote: Originally posted by JDCanuck | | My ancestors(Quakers) came to America to escape societal demands they were under in Europe, their descendants went to Northern Canada to seek new
opportunities and fewer imposed restrictions, now we seek that less restrictive life in Baja. I wonder where our descendants will escape to.
|
People in usa like to think their ancestors emigrated from europe to usa for noble reasons of freedom, religion , etc.
fact is that 99.9% of immigrants left Europe due to lack of economic opportunity, famine, etc.
They brought their religious baggage, and then created fables about religious persecution, freedom, etc. makes for good stories.
|
Come on Goat, that's a wild exaggeration. People have been moving to North America from Europe for 400 years for all sorts of reasons. I know my
western European ancestors moved here because they knew someday a descendant (me) would want to hang out at a southern California beach and ride
waves. They were right. |
I forgot 2 categories from my list: servitude and slavery.
Woke!
“...ask not what your country can do for you – ask what you can do for your country.” “My fellow citizens of the world: ask not what America
will do for you, but what together we can do for the freedom of man.”
Prefered gender pronoun: the royal we
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motoged
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| Quote: Originally posted by Tioloco | | Quote: Originally posted by JZ |
Why you libs want the govt. to control every aspect of your lives is beyond me.
There is a reason why some teach instead of facing the real world.
[Edited on 8-9-2021 by JZ] |
JZ, you make a valid point. |
Which point is that?
Don't believe everything you think....
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JDCanuck
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Don; I'm gonna guess it was the French, and yeah, I like that stuff too. Are French Fries still outlawed in the US?
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Skipjack Joe
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LONELY ARE THE BRAVE
is about the loss of personal freedom. It's one of my very favorite movies. Watch it if you haven't seen it already. It has very much to do with this
thread.
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westafricancaptain
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My favorite movie...Gunga Din!
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BajaMama
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I would like to point out that my argument was completely overlooked. I was implying that laws and regulations made to protect us are not a liberal
or conservative decision, they are a monetary decision.
When people doing unsafe things start to cost society and not just individuals, laws get passed to curb that cost.
Seat belts. Mandatory liability insurance. Motorcycle helmets. Drunk driving laws.
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JDCanuck
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| Quote: Originally posted by BajaMama | I would like to point out that my argument was completely overlooked. I was implying that laws and regulations made to protect us are not a liberal
or conservative decision, they are a monetary decision.
When people doing unsafe things start to cost society and not just individuals, laws get passed to curb that cost.
Seat belts. Mandatory liability insurance. Motorcycle helmets. Drunk driving laws. |
I don't think it was overlooked, it was a very valid point so not challenged.
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BajaMama
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| Quote: Originally posted by JDCanuck | | Quote: Originally posted by BajaMama | I would like to point out that my argument was completely overlooked. I was implying that laws and regulations made to protect us are not a liberal
or conservative decision, they are a monetary decision.
When people doing unsafe things start to cost society and not just individuals, laws get passed to curb that cost.
Seat belts. Mandatory liability insurance. Motorcycle helmets. Drunk driving laws. |
I don't think it was overlooked, it was a very valid point so not challenged. |
Nice to know!
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