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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
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| Quote: | Originally posted by wiltonh
With a surf board sticking out the back window, |
It's hard to imagine he drove down here like that, but the photo of his car on page one doesn't show any roof racks.
"YOU CAN'T LITTER ALUMINUM"
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willardguy
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6451
Registered: 9-19-2009
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
| Quote: | Originally posted by wiltonh
With a surf board sticking out the back window, |
It's hard to imagine he drove down here like that, but the photo of his car on page one doesn't show any roof racks. |
(thats an old photo, the rack had been added for this trip). with the back window down only a few inches I doubt the rancher could
have gained access but I suppose anythings possible!
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David K
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Posts: 64721
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Location: San Diego County
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Mood: Have Baja Fever
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| Quote: | Originally posted by latina
What Hook said makes sense and made me think of news from around 2011. The Mexican army discovered the largest marijuana farm ever, in the middle of
the dry desert only a few kilometres off the highway around San Quintin. Could a person looking for help wander too close to something they weren't
welcome to see? |
They use San Quintin as a reference point, but that pot farm was 80 miles southeast from San Quintin and nearer to San Agustin. If there was a pot
farm in the area, I think the rancher would know that.
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David K
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Hook
How likely is it that Gary drove around up to the week before the vehicle was discovered and either:
1- never saw the posters? or
2-saw them and chose not to communicate with his family?
I think number one is very unlikely for the time period he was missing. He would have had to come back into a town of some size for provisions. And
we can't answer #2, only the family probably can. But if that is unlikely, in their opinion, then the chances of foul play increase, in my mind.
One possible scenario that might explain why the vehicle did not seem to have it's contents stolen; Gary got stuck, left the car with his wallet and
primary keys and drinking water and walked back the way he came in for help. He's been in Baja many times; this is what you do when you are stuck, you
stick to the roads. You dont head out across the hills. Someone nefarious came across him quite a ways from his vehicle while he was walking for help
and may have abducted him/committed violence on him..........but, ultimately, did not know where his vehicle had been left. If you have just committed
a serious crime, finding the vehicle is a bit like returning to the scene of the crime; very risky.
I havent read through all the posts in a while; maybe this scenario has already been proposed. But it would explain why a nearby search did not turn
him up and it would explain why the vehicle was left there, relatively undisturbed. I think someone who might have committed violence on him probably
did it for financial gain and wouldnt have let any valuable items remain in the vehicle if they had staged a break-down in that area, to throw people
off their scent.
I agree with LL that this site can be of great benefit to this investigation, if it is allowed to happen. Based on these latest posts from LL, the
family must now condone this type of speculation. Tremendous value in this; if they can stand up to the grief that reading some scenarios will
produce.
[Edited on 4-6-2014 by Hook] |
If he was a seasoned Baja traveler, and using a 2WD to get through sandy roads, he would have known to DEFLATE the tires to get unstuck... Something
not adding up, unless he was not of sound mind when he got stuck. That was a long way off the road to Canoas just for a camping spot or potty break?
Lizard Lips is the best asset here for figuring this out!
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TMW
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Location: Bakersfield, CA
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| Quote: | Originally posted by lizard lips
Another thing I forgot to mention was that the vehicle had 3/4 of a tank of gas when discovered. |
That tells me he probably filled up in El Rosario. If he got gas at Catavina the gas people should have ID'd him from the posters.
Also as to why he would pull off there. I do it all the time when I camp along a road. I find a seldom used trail and pull off away from the main road
so as not to be seen. I figure Gary did it and got stuck and probably when for help.
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monoloco
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Location: Pescadero BCS
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| Quote: | Originally posted by willardguy
| Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
| Quote: | Originally posted by wiltonh
With a surf board sticking out the back window, |
It's hard to imagine he drove down here like that, but the photo of his car on page one doesn't show any roof racks. |
(thats an old photo, the rack had been added for this trip). with the back window down only a few inches I doubt the rancher could
have gained access but I suppose anythings possible! |
The flyer that was posted at the beginning of this
thread clearly indicated that the vehicle would have a red surfboard hanging out of the back window.
"The future ain't what it used to be"
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willardguy
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| Quote: | Originally posted by latina
What Hook said makes sense and made me think of news from around 2011. The Mexican army discovered the largest marijuana farm ever, in the middle of
the dry desert only a few kilometres off the highway around San Quintin. Could a person looking for help wander too close to something they weren't
welcome to see? |
this is a sketchy area to say the least, our last trip out from punta canoas coming off
the mountain top, where the decommissioned runway is, we came down the hill and found a new black sub with full limo tint just parked off the side of
the road, nothing around for miles, like out of a movie. very creepy indeed! sure, could have been a ranchers.
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
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Location: Punta Banda
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| Quote: | Originally posted by willardguy
we came down the hill and found a new black sub with full limo tint just parked off the side of the road, nothing around for miles, like out of a
movie. very creepy indeed! sure, could have been a ranchers.
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Maybe the bad guys were in there polishing each other's weapon. 
"YOU CAN'T LITTER ALUMINUM"
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willardguy
Elite Nomad
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
| Quote: | Originally posted by willardguy
we came down the hill and found a new black sub with full limo tint just parked off the side of the road, nothing around for miles, like out of a
movie. very creepy indeed! sure, could have been a ranchers.
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Maybe the bad guys were in there polishing each other's weapon.
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this is my weapon this is my gun.........
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BornFisher
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Any resourceful person can get into a vehicle with a 2" opening.
Doubtful there was a forced entry, here. Why break into a car, leave items of value and then relock the car?
I really think if he was murdered, it was not for robbery, but to protect something. A robber would have offered help, gone back to the stuck vehicle,
and waited for his chance.
A body dumped in the desert would attract buzzards. Ranchers with stock would investigate. If the body was buried, coyotes would dig it up and then
the buzzards would appear. Again ranchers would investigate.
The best potential for clues are the cameras. Was he a avid picture taker as are most who travel with 2 expensive cameras? Who has the cameras? Did
the camera record the dates of the photos? Who appears in the pics? Where were they taken? The old who, what, when, why, where?
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Skipjack Joe
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Location: Bahia Asuncion
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Someone earlier posted a Sherlock Homes quote that usually the truth is the most obvious one.
If he was digging his car out he was not locked out. The car must start to dig into the sand. It's likely that he went for help with the intention of
coming back to the vehicle if he did not find it. He may have actually intended to go to the very ranch that found him to get help.
If he camped in an arroyo with a lot of vegetation the rancher may just not have seen it during his trips up the canyon. A gps location of the car
could help us see just how open was the area where the car was found. The rancher is just speculating on how the car had been there. He himself says
that.
The circumstances surrounding the found vehicle doesn't sound like foul play on the surface - the excavation, the camera, the money. It could have
been planted, but the more straightforward answer is that it was just an accident and that Gary is still in the area.
My guess is that he was found in this arroyo with the ranch just south of it. But we'll soon know.
29°41'44.85"N 114°53'43.17"W
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BajaNomad
Super Administrator
Posts: 4994
Registered: 8-1-2002
Location: San Diego, CA
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| Quote: | Originally posted by TW
Also as to why he would pull off there. I do it all the time when I camp along a road. I find a seldom used trail and pull off away from the main road
so as not to be seen. |
Agreed.
| Quote: | Originally posted by Hook
One possible scenario that might explain why the vehicle did not seem to have it's contents stolen; Gary got stuck, left the car with his wallet and
primary keys and drinking water and walked back the way he came in for help. He's been in Baja many times; this is what you do when you are stuck, you
stick to the roads. You dont head out across the hills.
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Agreed.
| Quote: | Originally posted by Hook
Someone nefarious...
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Doubtful. Did someone say there were mountain lions in this region? 
When I was young, I admired clever people. Now that I am old, I admire kind people.
– Rabbi Abraham Joshua Heschel
We know we must go back if we live, and we don`t know why.
– John Steinbeck, Log from the Sea of Cortez
Affordable Domain Name Registration/Management & cPanel Web Hosting:
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tripledigitken
Ultra Nomad
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Registered: 9-27-2006
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Hook
How likely is it that Gary drove around up to the week before the vehicle was discovered and either:
1- never saw the posters? or
2-saw them and chose not to communicate with his family?[Hook] |
or never used his ATM after checking out of Jardines?
However, the vehicle, the way it was described, does appear to have been left by the owner. Or a very clever thief.
The rancher's comments do leave the impression that the vehicle would have been spotted within weeks where it was left.
The last images on the cameras, and/or images on memory cards found in the Toyota will say a lot.
Ken
I feel so sorry for his relatives having to sort this mystery out.
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BajaNomad
Super Administrator
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Location: San Diego, CA
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| Quote: | Originally posted by BornFisher
As Sherlock said "the simplest explanation, is usually the answer", or something like that.
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Perhaps, when a man has special knowledge and special powers like my own, it rather encourages him to seek a complex explanation when a simpler
one is at hand.
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle
Classic joke:
| Quote: |
Sherlock Holmes and his sidekick Watson go on a camping trip. After sharing a few bottles of Pacifico, they retire for the night.
At about 3 AM, Holmes nudges Watson and says, “Watson, look up into the sky and tell me what you see?”
Watson said, “I see millions of stars.”
Holmes asks, “And, what does that tell you?”
Watson replies, “Astronomically, it tells me there are millions of galaxies and potentially billions of planets. Astrologically, it tells me that
Saturn is in Leo. Theologically, it tells me that whatever made all of this is beyond human comprehension. Horologically, it tells me that it’s about
3 AM. Meteorologically, it tells me that we will have a beautiful day tomorrow. What does it tell you, Holmes?”
Holmes retorts, “Watson you idiot, someone stole our tent.”
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The simplest explanation is always the most likely.
- Agatha Christie
When I was young, I admired clever people. Now that I am old, I admire kind people.
– Rabbi Abraham Joshua Heschel
We know we must go back if we live, and we don`t know why.
– John Steinbeck, Log from the Sea of Cortez
Affordable Domain Name Registration/Management & cPanel Web Hosting:
https://www.regionalinternet.com |
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64721
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
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Mood: Have Baja Fever
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Skipjack Joe
...
My guess is that he was found in this arroyo with the ranch just south of it. But we'll soon know.
29°41'44.85"N 114°53'43.17"W |
Per that waypoint, you are over 10 miles north and on a different road than the one the car was found next to?
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lizard lips
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Since the rancher said to me that he was certain the vehicle was not there in early December and that other ranchers would definitely traverse this
area on a regular basis looking for their cattle leads me to believe that the rancher may be correct however the issue with the battery being dead for
also has me confused.
I just receive photos of the vehicle from the family that will be sent to David to post. I still don't know how to download photos and post but then
again I still can't program my VCR. The photos were taken at the Catavina Police impound yard after they towed it there from the ranchers property.
The photos were taken by the son of Gary.
The cameras will help for sure. He was an avid photographer so I assume the photos, or lack of them, will tell us a lot.
According to the rancher the local wildlife does include Mountain Lions and Coyotes. He also said there are a lot of Rattle snakes.
Gary was a surfer however he also had intentions to camp out and I assume it didn't necessarily mean on the beach.
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Hook
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Mountain lion attacks are rare.
Human accidents are more common, like a fall or something. Human attacks are probably more common than mountain lion attacks.
Holmes and Agatha would agree with me. 
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azucena
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I know this may be way dumb, but I have a 4 Runner, and you cannot start the vehicle unless the clutch is fully depressed, unless you push a button:
clutch start cancel . I don't know if Gary's was a standard or automatic, or if it had this feature. BUT if it does and if the rancher tried to start
the vehicle without depressing the clutch, it won't start, my point being are we SURE the battery was dead?
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David K
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6 Photos from Lizard Lips
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azucena
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Mountain Lion attacks are way for sure, especially for a loin to attack a healthy adult. If the person is compromised in some way, survival of the
fittest takes over. I personally doubt a lion attack myself, but a rattlesnake bite is not out of the question. and if he was injured etc in some way
he would have been more vulnerable to being taken advantage of by someone of the human species.
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