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Skipjack Joe
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8084
Registered: 7-12-2004
Location: Bahia Asuncion
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Lizard Lips,
Could you please post the coordinates where the vehicle was found?
If I somehow missed them then please indicate which page that was on.
Thanks.
PS. I'm with Hook on the surfboard speculation. It seems pretty irrelevant.
[Edited on 4-7-2014 by Skipjack Joe]
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XRPhlang
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Posts: 111
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Location: Central Coast
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Skipjack Joe
Lizard Lips,
PS. I'm with Hook on the surfboard speculation. It seems pretty irrelevant.
[Edited on 4-7-2014 by Skipjack Joe] |
I was only suggesting that there may have been another person riding
shotgun. I don't know who it would be, or why, but I thought it relevant. Maybe I'm over-speculating.
bontempscreolecafe.com
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BajaNomad
Super Administrator
Posts: 4999
Registered: 8-1-2002
Location: San Diego, CA
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Skipjack Joe
Lizard Lips,
Could you please post the coordinates where the vehicle was found?
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He's indicated that he's posted what he has. This is the most detailed report of where the vehicle was found:
| Quote: | Originally posted by lizard lips
At km 189, heading south on Hwy 1, is a turn off approximately 12 km prior to reaching Catavina. There is a large sign that says "San Jose". You turn
right heading towards the ocean. You stay on this dirt road for approximately 38 kilometers and come to a Y in the road. You take the dirt road to the
right and travel approximately 10 kilometers and turn left and follow this dirt road another 2 km and off to the right is an arroyo about 400 meters
and the vehicle was behind a small hill off to the right side. He stated that you would not be able to see the 4 Runner while traveling on the road.
It was hidden from view.
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I speculated that would put the vehicle about here:
http://goo.gl/maps/U2WUo
(29.495167,-115.001408)
[Edited on 4-7-2014 by BajaNomad]
When I was young, I admired clever people. Now that I am old, I admire kind people.
– Rabbi Abraham Joshua Heschel
We know we must go back if we live, and we don`t know why.
– John Steinbeck, Log from the Sea of Cortez
https://www.regionalinternet.com
Affordable Domain Name Registration/Management & cPanel Web Hosting - since 1999 |
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lizard lips
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I don't know the exact GPS but it will be posted as soon as it is confirmed. BajaNomad looks like he has it as correct as I have seen so far.
Gary did not have any life policy, enemies, business partners, or anyone that had a grudge or wanted him harmed. No indication of suicide as well
Joe.This was told to me by the family. Also learned by the family is that they don't know exactly how much cash he had when he went down but we do
know his ATM card was never used. Because Gary was the social type he may very well had someone travel with him that he met. It's all possible.
Gary was living on Social Security and was not employed prior to going south.
He was very social and liked to talk. When Bajaguy and I went to the Old Mill Restaurant a waiter was asked if he recognized the photo on the flyer.
After looking at it for a little while I told him that Gary liked to talk and then he said,yes, this is the guy who was talking to another man at a
table and this guy liked to talk a lot. We were not able to find out who Gary was talking with but this was before 09/05.
Latina, I wrote about what the rancher saw in the vehicle and as far as a wet suit, boogie board, and tent, the family said he left with those items
in the 4 Runner but was not mentioned by the rancher. We won't know what was recovered until the vehicle is obtained and items checked off. Everyone
will be informed about all when we know. I don't know what Gary was doing on that road Latina. We do know he was on an adventure and planned on
camping but he never told anyone where or how long he would be gone.
I'm glad you are all throwing these questions out there even if they have been asked and answered. It keeps everyone informed and I will answer all as
best I can. Keep those "what if's" coming as well. Thanks!
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EnsenadaDr
Banned
Posts: 5027
Registered: 9-12-2011
Location: Baja California
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Mood: Move on. It is just a chapter in the past, but don't close the book- just turn the page
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I firmly believe that Gary was not in that spot. As we said the Rancher who obviously knows the area well, didn't see the car there a few weeks back.
I think he maybe stopped, had a few drinks and was robbed. The vehicle was then put in that spot later on. Which reminds me of a true story. My
father had a friend in Rosarito when we all lived on Villas del Mar way before Woooosh even placed a brick on his property and Tila's house was in
ruins and no one lived there, around the year 2000. He was pretty friendly with this Mexican guy and the guy and my dad went to Primo Tapia to visit
some people and there were no beds, only a double bed and my father and his friend slept in the double bed together. They returned a few days later,
and his friend was arrested for slitting the throat of an elderly American couple in Rosarito and robbing them. My father never got tired of telling
that story as he said, "it could have just as well been him." However my father spent most of his money around the first week of the month and most
people were aware of that. So I guess he wasn't a target. Well hopefully this didn't happen to Gary as no one has found him. He could have easily
lost his memory, who knows? Hopefully he is still alive. | Quote: | Originally posted by lizard lips
I don't know the exact GPS but it will be posted as soon as it is confirmed. BajaNomad looks like he has it as correct as I have seen so far.
Gary did not have any life policy, enemies, business partners, or anyone that had a grudge or wanted him harmed. No indication of suicide as well
Joe.This was told to me by the family. Also learned by the family is that they don't know exactly how much cash he had when he went down but we do
know his ATM card was never used. Because Gary was the social type he may very well had someone travel with him that he met. It's all possible.
Gary was living on Social Security and was not employed prior to going south.
He was very social and liked to talk. When Bajaguy and I went to the Old Mill Restaurant a waiter was asked if he recognized the photo on the flyer.
After looking at it for a little while I told him that Gary liked to talk and then he said,yes, this is the guy who was talking to another man at a
table and this guy liked to talk a lot. We were not able to find out who Gary was talking with but this was before 09/05.
Latina, I wrote about what the rancher saw in the vehicle and as far as a wet suit, boogie board, and tent, the family said he left with those items
in the 4 Runner but was not mentioned by the rancher. We won't know what was recovered until the vehicle is obtained and items checked off. Everyone
will be informed about all when we know. I don't know what Gary was doing on that road Latina. We do know he was on an adventure and planned on
camping but he never told anyone where or how long he would be gone.
I'm glad you are all throwing these questions out there even if they have been asked and answered. It keeps everyone informed and I will answer all as
best I can. Keep those "what if's" coming as well. Thanks! |
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azucena
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Did the rancher who found the vehicle mention any other car or other tracks in the immediate area of the vehicle? If the car had not been there long,
it would seem there would be evidence of someone potentially l LEAVING the area, if the car waqs brought there so recently. Of course they could have
been on foot , but it might be interesting to know what other prints , tracks etal might have been in the area. Of course wind etc could have buried
them, but in my experience tracks are something ranchers are usually very aware of and are usually very savvy of what animal and human presences have
been in the area
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mtgoat666
Select Nomad
Posts: 18385
Registered: 9-16-2006
Location: San Diego
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Mood: Hot n spicy
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| Quote: | Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
I firmly believe that Gary was not in that spot. As we said the Rancher who obviously knows the area well, didn't see the car there a few weeks back.
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"firmly believe?"
people have very unreliable memories... without independent verification of rancher's observations, his memory is not a fact, certainly not something
you should be so firm about
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tripledigitken
Ultra Nomad
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Registered: 9-27-2006
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Can it be determined if the car was facing the prevailing winds or was really sheltered from the wind?
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EnsenadaDr
Banned
Posts: 5027
Registered: 9-12-2011
Location: Baja California
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Mood: Move on. It is just a chapter in the past, but don't close the book- just turn the page
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I believe this, Goat, because the Rancher knows his area. Why else would he not have seen Gary's vehicle until a few weeks ago. | Quote: | Originally posted by mtgoat666
| Quote: | Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
I firmly believe that Gary was not in that spot. As we said the Rancher who obviously knows the area well, didn't see the car there a few weeks back.
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"firmly believe?"
people have very unreliable memories... without independent verification of rancher's observations, his memory is not a fact, certainly not something
you should be so firm about |
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
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You folks have questions??
Here's your answers:
http://www.brainjar.com/dhtml/ouija/
"YOU CAN'T LITTER ALUMINUM"
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mtgoat666
Select Nomad
Posts: 18385
Registered: 9-16-2006
Location: San Diego
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Mood: Hot n spicy
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| Quote: | Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
I believe this, Goat, because the Rancher knows his area. Why else would he not have seen Gary's vehicle until a few weeks ago. | Quote: | Originally posted by mtgoat666
| Quote: | Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
I firmly believe that Gary was not in that spot. As we said the Rancher who obviously knows the area well, didn't see the car there a few weeks back.
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"firmly believe?"
people have very unreliable memories... without independent verification of rancher's observations, his memory is not a fact, certainly not something
you should be so firm about |
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Memory is unreliable
Try this memory test. http://www.theinvisiblegorilla.com/survey.html
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BornFisher
Super Nomad
Posts: 2107
Registered: 1-11-2005
Location: K-38 Santa Martha/Encinitas
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When it all boils down, I`m guessing this--- He was exploring Baja and having a great time. He screwed up and got his vehicle stuck in the sand. He
tried to get himself out. He failed and couldn`t get himself out. He stayed there as long as possible. He started to walk to find help. Something bad
happened. No foul play here.
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Hook
Elite Nomad
Posts: 9010
Registered: 3-13-2004
Location: Sonora
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But if something bad happened when he attempted to walk out, it would likely have been in sight of the road and he would have been found by now, if it
didnt involve foul play.
Or, I suppose, a mtn. lion could have dragged him off somewhere, but I still think that's less likely. Especially if there is lots of stock in the
area. That would be a more likely source of food for them and they are probably leery of humans if the ranchers deter them when seen.
Can anyone estimate how many cars per day would travel this road during the time period indicated? 0-5, 5-10, 10-20 or more? If he had expired in some
proximity to the road, wouldnt the smell of putrification linger for some weeks? People driving by would notice it and remember it.
Another reason to chafe at the delay in an "official" search............
It pains me to write in such graphic detail; knowing that the family is certainly reading all this. But these discussions can be very valuable to
their cause.
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lizard lips
Super Nomad
Posts: 1468
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: EARTH
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After all is said recently my thoughts are this-The mileage cannot be changed and we know he didn't get far, by car, from San Quintin when he left
Jardines on September 05. What the rancher said about not seeing the vehicle in December there is a time period there that Gary was somewhere for a
few months that someone must know about. Could the vehicle been stuck in the sand in September and maybe the rancher was confused and other ranchers
just not traveled that particular site since September? Maybe but not likely.
The only thing we need now is knowing what pictures and dates the photos were taken on both cameras. An accounting of everything inside the vehicle
and a search. Also contacting other ranchers in the area for their knowledge and the possibility of having been to the vehicle recovery site prior to
the ranchers discovery. Am I missing something else?
We never received a call related to the flyers posted in this area meaning Catavina, El Rosario, BOLA or San Quintin. Many calls were received from
well wishers and I even had a call from a man and his wife who said they wanted to pray with me and he did-On the phone for 15 minutes. Calls were
also received from a few in Rosarito but these were not credible sightings.
I have no idea which way the wind blows where the car was found or even if it was hidden from view from the road. The rancher said it was so I have to
believe it was.
I know if I was stuck where the 4 Runner was found I would leave prior to day break and head for the highway on the dirt road. Did Gary have a medical
issue when he was walking? Maybe- Did he get disoriented? Maybe- Did he suffer a snake bite? Maybe- Or was it someone else that intentionally had the
vehicle stuck in the sand to look like Gary met his demise lost in the desert? Maybe-So many possibilities that makes my head spin.
We just have to do this rationally and get all of the information we can from what is available and make sense of it all.
With all of your continued informative posts it makes it much easier to understand that maybe we might get an answer.
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Islandbuilder
Senior Nomad
Posts: 555
Registered: 11-9-2011
Location: nob
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Is there any chance that the police took prints off of the interior of the car?
Do you have Gary's prints to compare them to?
Probably a lot of people have sat in that truck by now, from the rancher to the local police, but still.......
[Edited on 4-8-2014 by Islandbuilder]
[Edited on 4-8-2014 by Islandbuilder]
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David K
Honored Nomad
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Location: San Diego County
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Google Earth Flyover Hwy. 1 to 4Runner location, from Sharksbaja
Corky (Sharksbaja) has been following this and made a Google Earth kmz file that creates the effect of flying above the roads one would use from Hwy.
1 by Cataviña to near where Gary's 4Runner was found.
The road we think he turned left on is in the middle of the video image at 2:03 min.
You can pause the play to allow GE time to load that area. My PC or Internet takes a few moments to sharpen the image as it moves to a new area, then
I hit the forward arrow to continue.
Thank you Sharks for this work!
http://www.sharksseafoodbar.com/PattonsRoute.kmz
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Skipjack Joe
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8084
Registered: 7-12-2004
Location: Bahia Asuncion
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Perhaps Sharksbaja is right.
I was doing the same thing at about the same time and came up with a bit of a different location. The yellow marker on Corky's map:
29°34'9.81"N 114°54'55.40"W
is almost exactly 38km from the highway. I therefore assumed that he turned right at this spot. In fact I postulated that Gary lost his life because
he wasn't sure whether to turn right or left and made the wrong choice at this very spot.
The ranchero that found him I figured was at this location:
29°34'32.55"N 114°57'17.49"W
He states that the vehicle was with 1-2km from the ranch.
The road to the ranch looks like the main road so such a mistake could easily be made.
The only problem is that you can't go 10km after the right turn. In that sense Corky's landscape looks to be more like the description.
Anyway, Corky may indeed be right but this is another possibility.
I used this Youtube video to learn how to measure miles across a google map. I'm not sure if the accuracy is affected if you aren't looking straight
down because one part of the map seemed closer than the other during the segments that I measured.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYBoI7hZKss
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Skipjack Joe
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8084
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Location: Bahia Asuncion
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Actually, Corky's route fits the description of the latter part of the journey much better.
A 12km walk back to the main dirt road could be more than someone could handle in the heat. And if nobody is there and you decide to come back it's
24km.
The only thing that's puzzling is why someone would drive 12km off the main dirt road. That side road is too small to be confused for the main road.
If you don't want to be seen while camping you wouldn't drive 12km to do it IMO.
So the location of the vehicle does make it more likely that something sinister could have happened. On the other hand it is fairly flat in that area.
Who can read a man's mind.
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EnsenadaDr
Banned
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Registered: 9-12-2011
Location: Baja California
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Mood: Move on. It is just a chapter in the past, but don't close the book- just turn the page
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How far is the distance from the Las Jardines where Gary was staying to the spot where his car was found? The key to his disappearance is on that
route or road, somewhere, somehow. Also is the route direct except for that 12 km turnoff?
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latina
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Location: La Paz
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When I saw the photos of the recovered truck the first thing I thought was how different it looked than it did in the original flyer. The stickers
and the roof rack stood out right away because of their newness and contrast. Maybe some posters of the recovered truck, showing the way it really
looks, could be put up at a few locations on the highway between San Quintin and Catavina....maybe someone would remember it, especially if it was
seen more recently than September 5th?
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