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DENNIS
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| Quote: | Originally posted by MrBillM
Just wondering, of course, but isn't their expressed "Supremacy" argument that ONLY They have FULL-CONTROL over the border and immigration ?
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Of course they do. They just have a pee-poor way of showing it.
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oldlady
Banned
Posts: 1714
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MrBillM
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Hitting the Panic Button
An article in today's L.A. (Communist) Times describes the record number of deaths in AZ's border desert areas as a (suspected) result of the record
heat this July. Pima County has resorted to renting a Refrigerated trailer to store the bodies.
Accompanying the article is a photo of a radio-tower with an Illegal Alien Panic Button complete with instructions to summon Help.
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wessongroup
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 21152
Registered: 8-9-2009
Location: Mission Viejo
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Mood: Suicide Hot line ... please hold
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Has the "why" question been evaluated, why is there poor economic development in Mexico? Which leaves a large portion of the "people" with less than
any real opportunity to "make a better life" for themselves?
Not excusing illegal entry into the United States.. all of my wife's family came across that way.. starting in 30's and 40's ... her grandfather
"Santos" died in Watsonville still doing "field work" at the age of 74. We drove him up to Salinas in 1968 in our VW bus from Los Angeles, he had been
not doing too good, he was 71 at the time... but, just hated living in Los Angeles... East L.A...
He had been born in Sonora on a family ranch.. which was lost after his father died in the Revelotion ... moved to Tijuana, as was able to get across
and work in Agriculture for the rest of his life... he loved working in the fields and growing things..
But, that family came into the United States, cuz there was absolutely no chance for them in Tijuana or just about any other place in Mexico to really
get ahead..
Brings up the WHY question..
Found a very interesting "paper" from Stanford University which places much of the blame on Mexico's Economic condition on one factor... Land Reform
and the Political System which become "fixed" in place for over 70 years...
It does not excuse the illegal movement of folks from across the border into the United States.. but, it does help to make a bit of sense WHY the HUGE
amount of folks do it...
http://weblamp.princeton.edu/rppe/events/piepmay2009/papers/...
If you have a little time, take the time to read it... found it quite insight full, as to why we see some of the things we do see, with regard to many
of the issues discussed here: developments, poverty, land use, title issues and many others..
It all helps ......
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Dave
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6005
Registered: 11-5-2002
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Very informative read.
Thanks.
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mtgoat666
Select Nomad
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Registered: 9-16-2006
Location: San Diego
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Mood: Hot n spicy
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| Quote: | Originally posted by jimgrms
american citizen are continuly being asked for a id when useing our debit or credit cards doing banking ect ; it is only a big deal if you are illegal
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don't be ridiculous.
people asking for credit at private businesses is discretionary and showing ID in such cases is part of biz transaction; and totally unrelated not
same as gestapo stopping you for ID check on basis of racial profiling.
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Barry A.
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Posts: 10007
Registered: 11-30-2003
Location: Redding, Northern CA
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Mood: optimistic
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| Quote: | Originally posted by mtgoat666
| Quote: | Originally posted by jimgrms
american citizen are continuly being asked for a id when useing our debit or credit cards doing banking ect ; it is only a big deal if you are illegal
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don't be ridiculous.
people asking for credit at private businesses is discretionary and showing ID in such cases is part of biz transaction; and totally unrelated not
same as gestapo stopping you for ID check on basis of racial profiling. |
Bolderdash!!!!! We need a bio-metric National ID card, period!!! and the first one should be issued to 'the Goat' so that we can keep track of
him!!
Barry
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
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| Quote: | Originally posted by mtgoat666
don't be ridiculous.
people asking for credit at private businesses is discretionary and showing ID in such cases is part of biz transaction; and totally unrelated not
same as gestapo stopping you for ID check on basis of racial profiling. |
Total BS.......They don't detain gang members for profile reasons. They should, but they don't. If they did, there wouldn't be any left on the
streets.
Why, all of a sudden, would they do this with gardners or construction workers or anybody else?
I think you give too much praise to the work ethic of police.
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toneart
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4901
Registered: 7-23-2006
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Mood: Skeptical
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| Quote: | Originally posted by wessongroup
Has the "why" question been evaluated, why is there poor economic development in Mexico? Which leaves a large portion of the "people" with less than
any real opportunity to "make a better life" for themselves?
Not excusing illegal entry into the United States.. all of my wife's family came across that way.. starting in 30's and 40's ... her grandfather
"Santos" died in Watsonville still doing "field work" at the age of 74. We drove him up to Salinas in 1968 in our VW bus from Los Angeles, he had been
not doing too good, he was 71 at the time... but, just hated living in Los Angeles... East L.A...
He had been born in Sonora on a family ranch.. which was lost after his father died in the Revelotion ... moved to Tijuana, as was able to get across
and work in Agriculture for the rest of his life... he loved working in the fields and growing things..
But, that family came into the United States, cuz there was absolutely no chance for them in Tijuana or just about any other place in Mexico to really
get ahead..
Brings up the WHY question..
Found a very interesting "paper" from Stanford University which places much of the blame on Mexico's Economic condition on one factor... Land Reform
and the Political System which become "fixed" in place for over 70 years...
It does not excuse the illegal movement of folks from across the border into the United States.. but, it does help to make a bit of sense WHY the HUGE
amount of folks do it...
http://weblamp.princeton.edu/rppe/events/piepmay2009/papers/...
If you have a little time, take the time to read it... found it quite insight full, as to why we see some of the things we do see, with regard to many
of the issues discussed here: developments, poverty, land use, title issues and many others..
It all helps ...... |
Thank you, WessonMan! Illegal is still illegal, but you give the people a face. They are human beings. It helps to understand their plight and
motivations for crossing the border illegally. 
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Barry A.
Select Nomad
Posts: 10007
Registered: 11-30-2003
Location: Redding, Northern CA
Member Is Offline
Mood: optimistic
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I'm betting that 98+% of the folks on this Board "understand their plight", and symphathise with them. I "symphathise" with all kinds of
people-----but you can't run a Country purely on symphathy! Any successful Country has rules and regulations to prevent chaos and unintended
consequences, and they MUST be enforced in an orderly and fair manner if possible, but harshly if not possible. Reagan's immigration ideas, tho well
intended, did not solve the problem-----it just incentivised more to come here illegally--------have we learned nothing??
I don't have all the answers for those illegals already here, but we as a Country HAVE to secure the border, and now!!!! and deal with the law
breakers already here in as humane a manner as practical, but keeping in mind that they broke the law with their eyes wide open, no matter what there
legit/or non-legit reasons, and NOBODY is above the law. (despite what some of you think)
SECURE THE BORDERS, NOW!!!!!! Our present policy is simply nuts!!!
Barry
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Cypress
Elite Nomad
Posts: 7641
Registered: 3-12-2006
Location: on the bayou
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Mood: undecided
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Why have laws if they aren't enforced? 
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wessongroup
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 21152
Registered: 8-9-2009
Location: Mission Viejo
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Mood: Suicide Hot line ... please hold
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Not arguing about securing the border, and not arguing about it not being illegal... and running the Country of Mexico in the described historical
fashion has led to their current plight, ... that was the bottom line of the "paper"
The paper was pointing out the WHY .....
As for sympathy don't think the Mexican people are really looking for that... rather opportunity to make a better life for themselves and their
families.. be it in Mexico, or anywhere else.. much the same as my forefathers that came to the United States of America in 1657 as indentured
servants from England
If you knew that the current situation of the Mexican people was a direct result of a Political system and Land Reform, which has been in place for
all most 70 years and has resulted in the lack of Economic Growth for the Mexican people, .. well, can only say you are much better informed than
most..
And perhaps you should have written the "paper" which was supplied...
As my intent was to merely show the other side of the fence... so to speak
My position on the entry into the United States illegally has not changed, it is illegal.. period..
And the idea of having some kind of reform without even enforcing current laws and regulations is ludicrous ... but then we have already seen a Health
Bill passed and a Financial Bill being passed without anyone even knowing what is in them and if they will work.. .
Our current batch of "deep thinkers" are throwing it on the wall to see what sticks.. at our expense... much the same as the Mexican Government in
their attempts to resolve decades of problems without resolve and which are also hurting their country Economic life also...
Living off tourist dollars in not a sustainable plan if one does not own their land.. and have the ability to use as an asset to obtain credit for
obvious reasons ....
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Barry A.
Select Nomad
Posts: 10007
Registered: 11-30-2003
Location: Redding, Northern CA
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Mood: optimistic
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I agree, Wesson.
Barry
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
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| Quote: | Originally posted by mtgoat666
perhaps soon mexico will have problem of illegals from US infiltrating their country to work in cabo.
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Time Share anybody??
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Bajahowodd
Elite Nomad
Posts: 9274
Registered: 12-15-2008
Location: Disneyland Adjacent and anywhere in Baja
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goat does make a valid point. Historically, demographics drive much of what transpires. And when labor demand is far outstripping supply, people don't
seem to care much about the legality issue. Every study I've read regarding US labor supply v. job demand projects that in just a very few years, the
US will have a shortfall of workers in the tens of millions. Not going to weigh in on the moral/ legal issue here, but if we just think back a few
years, when our economy was really humming, there was nowhere near the clamor over securing the borders. I think that the recession, job loss and the
neat little homeland security excuse all have combined to make this issue absolutely frenetic.
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oldlady
Banned
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Registered: 10-31-2005
Location: BCS
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If we look back a few(how many is that) there was nowhere near the death rates on both sides of the border either. What's our criteria going to be?
Do we need 10 or 20 car bombs in El Paso six months or a year from now. Why is the status quo and related loss of life acceptable.
Please post the studies that indicate we are going to have a worker shortage in a very few years, because it is highly possible that the assumptions
are wrong. We've got a big backlog of unemployed people and no politicians or economists predicting an nominal (as opposed to actual) unemployment
rate in the 4% range in the next decade. Having a near term labor shortage issue would be a problem everyone would like to be scratching their heads
over right now...I don't read that happening.
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Bajahowodd
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I would really appreciate it if someone could enlighten me about the causes or reasons for this:
Maricopa County Sheriff Joe Arpaio appears to be the darling of those who are most vehemently anti- immigrant. How does one explain these stats, aside
from concluding that Arpaio is an incompetent marooon?
Arizona Violent Crime since 2002
Statewide- -12%
Phoenix PD jurisdiction- -14%
Mesa PD jurisdiction- -14%
Scottsdale PD jurisdiction- -15%
Tempe PD jurisdiction- -26%
Maricopa County (Arpaio) jurisdiction- +58%
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Bajahowodd
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Posts: 9274
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I See Your Point in the Immediate
| Quote: | Originally posted by oldlady
If we look back a few(how many is that) there was nowhere near the death rates on both sides of the border either. What's our criteria going to be?
Do we need 10 or 20 car bombs in El Paso six months or a year from now. Why is the status quo and related loss of life acceptable.
Please post the studies that indicate we are going to have a worker shortage in a very few years, because it is highly possible that the assumptions
are wrong. We've got a big backlog of unemployed people and no politicians or economists predicting an nominal (as opposed to actual) unemployment
rate in the 4% range in the next decade. Having a near term labor shortage issue would be a problem everyone would like to be scratching their heads
over right now...I don't read that happening. |
I will grant that the attached paper was written in 2004, pre-recession. My feeling is that unless someone is a total doomsayer, the forces at work
will still be there. Maybe perhaps with a delay or adjustment. But one cannot ignore the simple fact that we have an ever decreasing number of people
reaching the age where they will enter the workforce.
http://gbr.pepperdine.edu/042/laborshortage.html
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Bajahowodd
I would really appreciate it if someone could enlighten me about the causes or reasons for this:
Maricopa County Sheriff Joe Arpaio appears to be the darling of those who are most vehemently anti- immigrant. How does one explain these stats, aside
from concluding that Arpaio is an incompetent marooon?
Arizona Violent Crime since 2002
Statewide- -12%
Phoenix PD jurisdiction- -14%
Mesa PD jurisdiction- -14%
Scottsdale PD jurisdiction- -15%
Tempe PD jurisdiction- -26%
Maricopa County (Arpaio) jurisdiction- +58% |
Where did you get the stats? I'm not challenging them....just want to know who compiled them.
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wessongroup
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 21152
Registered: 8-9-2009
Location: Mission Viejo
Member Is Offline
Mood: Suicide Hot line ... please hold
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Bajahowodd
goat does make a valid point. Historically, demographics drive much of what transpires. And when labor demand is far outstripping supply, people don't
seem to care much about the legality issue. Every study I've read regarding US labor supply v. job demand projects that in just a very few years, the
US will have a shortfall of workers in the tens of millions. Not going to weigh in on the moral/ legal issue here, but if we just think back a few
years, when our economy was really humming, there was nowhere near the clamor over securing the borders. I think that the recession, job loss and the
neat little homeland security excuse all have combined to make this issue absolutely frenetic. |
Perhaps those thoughts and numbers were developed by the same folks that gave us the "Looting" of the United States of America.. which we have just
witnessed .. to the tune of 50-60 Trillion dollars.. and is that something driven by demographics.. think not.. rather plain and simple unbridled
greed... from both sides of the isle.. think not....
The last numbers we were seeing, 11 million homes to be lost to foreclosure ... that would imply those folks do not have any work (jobs) therefore
they can't pay the mortgages.. which must also be past Pluto !!.. and lets not forget the Commercial Real Estate which is coming up on 5-10 year
renewals.. now that should prove fun.. as a lot of "unique" financial deals are structured on "values" of cost per square foot... which are going to
be pretty hard to support this go around...
And what we have been seeing is that there is no work, here in the United States.. and no real expectations of new jobs to be created, oh, thats right
"batteries" and making cars.. so we can drive around using electricity generated by the sun, but, not really going anywhere...
Well that's not so bad... as that appears to be what we have been doing for quite a while...
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