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lizard lips
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Great idea Latina.
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DENNIS
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Skipjack Joe
Anyway, Corky may indeed be right but this is another possibility.
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Of course he's right. He's always right  , but where is he? I didn't
even see him post here. 
"YOU CAN'T LITTER ALUMINUM"
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larryC
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I find it hard to believe that Gary could camp on the beach and surf from Sept to March and not be remembered. The amount of food and water and ice he
would need to receive from the locals (since there are not enough miles on the truck to indicate he drove anywhere to get supplies) would make him
memorable. Then his truck turns up stuck in the sand. To me it seems more plausible that the truck has been hidden for a few months and then ditched.
Off grid, 12-190 watt evergreen solar panels on solar trackers, 2-3648 stacked Outback inverters, 610ah LiFePo4 48v battery bank, FM 60 and MX60
Outback charge controllers, X-240 Outback transformer for 240v from inverters, 6500 watt Kubota diesel generator.
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Skipjack Joe
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I'm in agreement with Larry.
If you look at the location of the vehicle -
There is no explanation for why Gary would drive to this spot. It's 10 km off the main dirt road. Followed by another 2km off a 'goat' road. And
another 400m up an arroyo that can't be seen.
It is, however, exactly the sort of place where you would drive a vehicle if you intended to hide it. Remote and hidden from view.
This theory supports the rancher's story that the vehicle was not at this spot 3 months after the vehicle Gary left the states. 3 months which the
mileage says he could not have been driving around.
This theory, however, does not support the digging that was done to free the car.
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David K
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The 10 km. section is also a graded road, that goes to Punta Canoas, which is a sizable fish camp like San Jose.
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BeemerDan
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Maps
Were any Baja maps found in the car, Everyone I know that drives/rides Baja carrys a map with them, and if I was to set out on foot after getting
stuck I'd certainly take the map with me. or if he had just a Baja almanac, and that was still in the vehicle I'd look for any pages torn out.
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Taco de Baja
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| Quote: | Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
How far is the distance from the Las Jardines where Gary was staying to the spot where his car was found? The key to his disappearance is on that
route or road, somewhere, somehow. Also is the route direct except for that 12 km turnoff? |
As the KM markers reset to "0" in San Quintin it will be approximately 168 KM (104 miles) to the turn-off to "Faro San Jose" (the 168 KM marker is
esentially at the turn-off). Not sure where Jardines fits into the KM markers but should only be +/- a few. Add this to whatever the total off road
distance was, (48KM [30 miles] I seem to recall), as long as he did not take any "wrong turns" and have to double back. There are several forks out
there and unless you know the road you can take the wrong one that may only go to a rancho, or not go where you want. That track to Canoas where the
directions from the rancher lead to is certainly not the more traveled, main road, so maybe he did know the roads out there and wanted to go to Canoas
and not the area around San Jose?
So the short answer is ~216 KM (134 miles) from Jardines to where the vehicle was found.
[Edited on 4-8-2014 by Taco de Baja]
Truth generally lies in the coordination of antagonistic opinions
-Herbert Spencer
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David K
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Jardines is pretty close to Km. 1.
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Skipjack Joe
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| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
The 10 km. section is also a graded road, that goes to Punta Canoas, which is a sizable fish camp like San Jose.
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That does not look like a graded road to me. It does, however, look to be more traveled than I initially thought.
Another thought:
Given the proximity of all of these roads it's very unlikely that Gary was lost. It's unlikely that he was hiking all over the desert looking for
help. It's more likely that he followed those roads searching or waiting for a passing vehicle. That's assuming there was no foul play.
Therefore the logical place to look for his remains would be along those roads.
If he did not perish in this area, however, there is a small, really small, chance that he may still be alive. I suppose as a family member I would
think that way until the body is actually discovered.
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latina
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Skipjack Joe
I'm in agreement with Larry.
If you look at the location of the vehicle -
There is no explanation for why Gary would drive to this spot. It's 10 km off the main dirt road. Followed by another 2km off a 'goat' road. And
another 400m up an arroyo that can't be seen.
It is, however, exactly the sort of place where you would drive a vehicle if you intended to hide it. Remote and hidden from view.
This theory supports the rancher's story that the vehicle was not at this spot 3 months after the vehicle Gary left the states. 3 months which the
mileage says he could not have been driving around.
This theory, however, does not support the digging that was done to free the car. |
Unless someone else who knows the area drove the car there to hide it and then they got stuck, gave up and planned to come back at a later date to get
all the stuff, or strip it or whatever guys in Mexico do when they steal a foreign car.... In that scenario there would have had to be another
accomplice in a vehicle or how would the person ditching it get out of there? It doesn't explain why a criminal would leave an easy portable item
like an expensive camera behind, the extra keys, the plates on the truck and a couple of celebratory beers in the cooler...
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wilderone
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"One would almost have to be standing in the spot of the incident to make an assumption of which way he walked. One would also need to know the
direction the car was headed when stuck to assume where he had been, or from which direction he was traveling from."
I think this reasoning is a good starting point. From personal experience, I can suggest that maybe he took off, cross-country, toward a remembered
rancho or campo, (not down the road - after all, he was already away from the main road), as a "shortcut", only to find difficult terrain and have to
double back, making the hike longer. I personally have had to curtail digging out of the sand in the heat to sit under the meager shade of a bush,
sipping water, until I could continue digging out. And Gary had blood pressure problems. And remember the guy who "went missing" in the arroyo around
Catavina and was eventually found under a tree? The photo of the "accident memorial" on the camera is curious to me. Does it look like it has been
in place for a while? Positioned next to the highway or in open space? This was the last photo?
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Skipjack Joe
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| Quote: | Originally posted by latina
| Quote: | Originally posted by Skipjack Joe
I'm in agreement with Larry.
If you look at the location of the vehicle -
There is no explanation for why Gary would drive to this spot. It's 10 km off the main dirt road. Followed by another 2km off a 'goat' road. And
another 400m up an arroyo that can't be seen.
It is, however, exactly the sort of place where you would drive a vehicle if you intended to hide it. Remote and hidden from view.
This theory supports the rancher's story that the vehicle was not at this spot 3 months after the vehicle Gary left the states. 3 months which the
mileage says he could not have been driving around.
This theory, however, does not support the digging that was done to free the car. |
Unless someone else who knows the area drove the car there to hide it and then they got stuck, gave up and planned to come back at a later date to get
all the stuff, or strip it or whatever guys in Mexico do when they steal a foreign car.... In that scenario there would have had to be another
accomplice in a vehicle or how would the person ditching it get out of there? It doesn't explain why a criminal would leave an easy portable item
like an expensive camera behind, the extra keys, the plates on the truck and a couple of celebratory beers in the cooler... |
I agree with you Latina. After DavidK pointed out that the 12km road actually leads to Pt Canoa it's likely that he wasn't just pulling off the road
to San Jose but actually headed to Canoa. A 2km drive to get off this road to spend the night makes perfect sense. And in such a case he could have,
indeed, just got his car stuck in the sediment as the evidence suggests.
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lizard lips
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I don't know if it was the last photo in that Garys son viewed it while at the Catavina PD. Until we get the camera back then we will know exactly
what photos were taken and when.
If someone staged the scene where the vehicle was found with the cameras still inside I would tend to believe that Gary was the last person to be
there. Maybe that is exactly what the person/persons wanted people to believe or if the cameras were taken how would that person explain this to his
friends or family. I'm just throwing that out there obviously.
The mileage driven is set in stone. The ranchers thoughts are not but you just have to believe him about not seeing the SUV in December. Very odd.
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Skipjack Joe
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To me the mileage information suggests that Gary drove to this spot virtually directly from home. Assuming he drove to Catavina for gas before
doubling back I came out with 146 unaccounted miles.
But he had the vehicle for 6 days in the States before he started his journey. Just the back and forth in shopping could have accounted for those
miles in 6 days.
This suggests that it really was an accidental death.
You have to wonder why he didn't take his beers and juice and melted water and walk the 2km and wait for cars to come by. Perhaps the traffic was so
light that he decided this was futile and headed to the larger road to San Jose, another 10km. If the traffic is light on these roads he was clearly
in a desparate situation.
PS. I've always wondered if lopping off a barrel cactus does provide some water.
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EnsenadaDr
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Mood: Move on. It is just a chapter in the past, but don't close the book- just turn the page
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Taco,
Wasn't it assumed that Gary was headed to Bahia Los Angeles from Las Jardines? Where in your opinion do you think he was headed before the turn off
he took? | Quote: | Originally posted by Taco de Baja
| Quote: | Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
How far is the distance from the Las Jardines where Gary was staying to the spot where his car was found? The key to his disappearance is on that
route or road, somewhere, somehow. Also is the route direct except for that 12 km turnoff? |
As the KM markers reset to "0" in San Quintin it will be approximately 168 KM (104 miles) to the turn-off to "Faro San Jose" (the 168 KM marker is
esentially at the turn-off). Not sure where Jardines fits into the KM markers but should only be +/- a few. Add this to whatever the total off road
distance was, (48KM [30 miles] I seem to recall), as long as he did not take any "wrong turns" and have to double back. There are several forks out
there and unless you know the road you can take the wrong one that may only go to a rancho, or not go where you want. That track to Canoas where the
directions from the rancher lead to is certainly not the more traveled, main road, so maybe he did know the roads out there and wanted to go to Canoas
and not the area around San Jose?
So the short answer is ~216 KM (134 miles) from Jardines to where the vehicle was found.
[Edited on 4-8-2014 by Taco de Baja] |
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willardguy
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it would be interesting to know just how buried the 4runner was? like I said, I would have jammed that soft top under the back wheel in a heartbeat
before I took off walking! Lips, how soon do think before you can see the photo's?
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lizard lips
Super Nomad
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Not until the first of May will the car and belongings be recovered. I told the family not to travel anywhere in Mexico during the Easter Holidays and
apparently they cannot get away until the end of the month anyway.
You all have to remember that Gary did not have any set plans on where he was going. Many thought he may go to BOLA to photograph the Whale Sharks and
it appears he didn't make it any further south than Catavina.
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EnsenadaDr
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Mood: Move on. It is just a chapter in the past, but don't close the book- just turn the page
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From Google maps, it appears that it is approximately 115 miles from San Quintin to Catavina or maybe a 2 to 3 hours drive. If Gary started out from
Hotel Los Jardines in San Quintin early in the morning, why would he only drive a few hours and then pull over the side of the road. It appears to me
he was headed towards Bahia de Los Angeles and could have made it in 4 to 5 hours (225 miles). Something fishy happened in those 2 hours on the road
towards Bahia Los Angeles between San Quintin to Catavina on his way to BOLA. Maybe he stopped to use a restroom along the way and got ambushed?
Either way it makes no sense for a man to only drive 3 hours and pull over to camp out. Reading the earlier posts, it was thought he was going to
BOLA to photograph the whales and this could have been done easily in a half day drive, spend the day in BOLA and head back to SQ in 3 days as Shari
had mentioned he was planning to do in one of her posts on the thread earlier but it was entirely possible to do this in 3 days judging by the
distances. As far as traveling to a fish camp, better fishing could be had all around in SQ IMO.
[Edited on 4-8-2014 by EnsenadaDr]
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latina
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That is so sad. Nine months missing, 4 months since truck found and he's still missing and no actual search has taken place yet.
I hope that the beach area of Punta Canoa is popular with campers during Semana Santa and that the traffic will provide much needed presence and
possibly uncover something useful. After all this time, worries about the "site" being disturbed seem kind of irrelevant...
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Taco de Baja
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| Quote: | Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
Taco,
Wasn't it assumed that Gary was headed to Bahia Los Angeles from Las Jardines? Where in your opinion do you think he was headed before the turn off
he took |
I don't know where it was "assumed" he was headed, maybe that's buried in the 1,000+ replies to this thread with lots of differing opinions. I
believe he was just exploring with no real set goal or local in mind. But, he clearly was not on the road to BOLA. In my opinion he was
headed to the coastal areas north or south of Faro San Jose. There are several points here where he could have the surf break to himself, providing
the swell was there.
However, I am troubled by the apparent lack of food and water in the vehicle. I always carry at least 1 gallon per person per day of water, plus beer
and sodas. There should have been at least a jerry can of water or a case of bottles. Maybe the water was there and just has not been listed. Also,
if you are going to spend the time to go that far off-road there should be a week of canned/dry goods. Were there any 5-gallon gas cans? Always a
good idea to have extra fuel when way off the main roads; 4x4ing burns through a lot of gas.
Truth generally lies in the coordination of antagonistic opinions
-Herbert Spencer
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