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vandenberg
Elite Nomad
Posts: 5118
Registered: 6-21-2005
Location: Nopolo
Member Is Offline
Mood: mellow
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T&T,
Got any approximate figures of what a desalination plant for, from 6 to 10000 people will cost and the time frame of building one ??
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turtleandtoad
Senior Nomad
Posts: 730
Registered: 1-20-2005
Location: Wherever I park. See sig for current location.
Member Is Offline
Mood: Good if fishing
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| Quote: | Originally posted by vandenberg
T&T,
Got any approximate figures of what a desalination plant for, from 6 to 10000 people will cost and the time frame of building one ??
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I'm probably not the one to put a dollar (or peso) figure on it because I'm not familiar with all the costs of property, materials, labor rates, etc.
involved with doing business in Mexico.
However I can probably give you physical size, and US construction time and manhours (design/build) of such a plant. It'll take a while for me to pull
together the info but it doesn't look like this thread is going away for awhile.
Just keep in mind, it'll be what we call a "SWAG" (scientific wild-a*s guess). 
Mike & Robin; Full-Time RV\'ers
37\' Georgetown w/3 slides & 275 Watts of Solar Power
06 Taco TRD
www.turtleandtoad.com
I am here
To paraphrase Frank Lloyd Wright; I\'m all in favor of keeping dangerous weapons out of the hands of fools. Let\'s start with keyboards. --
Mike Dean |
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capn.sharky
Senior Nomad
Posts: 686
Registered: 9-4-2003
Member Is Offline
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Pam---You Rock!!!! I agree with everything you said except about the famous flojos.....I have seen some really hard working Mexicans in Loreto. Yes,
there are some lazy ones....but on the whole, I think they all do pretty well. Also, some of your Captains are the best Loreto has to offer.
Gabriel, Fidel, Nacho...and some others. Why, because you treat them better than the other fishing companies. You want them to do good and be able
to feed their families.
If there is no fishing in heaven, I am not going
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Marie-Rose
Senior Nomad
Posts: 894
Registered: 10-2-2003
Location: Victoria, B.C. and Todos Santos
Member Is Offline
Mood: Worried...
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I noticed earlier that "Friend of Baja" was logged on and I was interested to see what
his/her response would be to Pam's post ....
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Bruce R Leech
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6796
Registered: 9-20-2004
Location: Ensenada formerly Mulege
Member Is Offline
Mood: A lot cooler than Mulege
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keep waiting 
Bruce R Leech
Ensenada
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vandenberg
Elite Nomad
Posts: 5118
Registered: 6-21-2005
Location: Nopolo
Member Is Offline
Mood: mellow
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Would be nice to know ,to whom at Loreto Bay we're actually answering posts. Come on, identify yourself and quit hiding behind a synonym. We don't. "
Friend of Baja" doesn't quite cut it. I've an idea ,but not sure.
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Phil S
Super Nomad
Posts: 1205
Registered: 10-28-2003
Member Is Offline
Mood: After 34 years. Still in love w/ my wife
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Pam. "times we are out of electricity" count. Isn't totally fair to compare, as over the past fifteen years I've been coming to Loreto, I've lost
count of the number of times the electricity as been off over those years. And L.B. wasn't around until about two years ago.
Wilderone: You mentioned earlier that you knew of some "screw up's" (not correct wording, sorry) by Butterfield & Grogan in the past. I'm
curious if you meant, "they screwed up" or something happened to some projects they were involved in. Two years ago, when L.B. was still in the
"drawing board" stage for Nopolo, we stopped by Scottsdale, Arizona on the way down, and spent several days 'nosing around' Met with Jim Grogan.
Asked around the business community about him. Not a word came up of any "screw ups" in his background. Didn't get to meet Butterfield during that
visit. But did get to meet him, and over several opportunities, have been able to get to know him a little. I don't see a "grab & bail" bone in
his body. (and I've spent most of my working life dealing with "people", and can get a pretty good "read" after all these years. (and my background
comes from banking, finance, credit lending, insurance & real estate. After a while, you can "sniff out" those folks. Of course I did this with
a need for information, as I own a home in Nopolo that I hope L.B. will be protecting my (others) rights to water, sewer, etc. So far, I'm not as
worried about it as there seems to be so many others on this board, who some don't own property in this area. Wilderone. Did your information come
from a private phone investigation, or personal visits to people who knew something about them. I'd love to know this, in efforts to help me turn up
this same information myself. Thanks for providing a more clear picture of their problems of their past. Appreciate it. Phil S
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turtleandtoad
Senior Nomad
Posts: 730
Registered: 1-20-2005
Location: Wherever I park. See sig for current location.
Member Is Offline
Mood: Good if fishing
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A TYPICAL CONCEPT SUMMARY
OK, for those who asked (and those that didn't); here's what I've come up with as what a concept study might look like for LB. I've based this on a
couple of projects currently working their way through the public process in California. I know that the Environmental part probably isn't the same in
Mexico, but from what I've heard, the Bureaucracy can be just as slow.
Loreto Bay Energy Park Executive Summary.
Loreto Bay?s Utilities Department, doing business as LBUD, proposes to construct, own, and operate an electrical generating plant in the Village of
Loreto Bay, Baja California Sur, Mexico. The Loreto Bay Energy Park (LBEP) will be a dual fuel (natural gas/diesel)-fired, combined-cycle electrical
generating facility rated at a nominal net generating capacity of 120 to 125 megawatts (MW), with the ability to peak-fire to 160 MW nominal during
summer design conditions.
The project is proposed for a 20-acre site that lies within a 140-acre Loreto Bay parcel designated as the LBIP (Loreto Bay Industrial Park). The
project site is within the limits of the village of Loreto Bay, adjacent to and north of the Loreto Bay Waste Water Treatment Plant (LBWWTP). The
project site is owned by the Village of Loreto Bay and is zoned Public/Quasi-Public. Surrounding land uses currently include recreational, and rural
residential.
The below figures are for the power plant only and do not include any ancillary or adjacent projects or property acquisition.
Design Time; 36-40 months
Permit/Environmental Study time; 24-36 months
Construction time; 24-30 months
Estimated Capital costs, 120 Million.
Estimated Construction Costs; TBD
PROJECT FEATURES
The main project features are:
? The project is a 120 to 125 MW nominal, dual fuel (diesel/natural gas) fired, combined-cycle generating plant with two General Electric LM6000 or
two Alstom GTX 100 combustion turbine-generators (CTGs), a single condensing steam turbine generator (STG), a deaerating surface condenser; a
four-cell mechanical draft cooling tower; and associated support equipment.
? The CTGs are equipped with evaporative coolers on the inlet air system and water-injected combustors for the LM6000 model or dry low NOx combustors
for the GTX 100 model.
? The heat recovery steam generators (HRSGs) will be of the horizontal, natural circulation type, equipped with duct burners. The emission reduction
system includes a selective catalytic reduction (SCR) unit to control nitrogen oxide (NOx) stack emissions and an oxidation catalyst to control carbon
monoxide (CO) emissions.
? A 40,000 pound-per-hour dual fuel-fired auxiliary boiler and a nominal 750 kW, diesel-fired standby generator will also be included in the project.
? A 50-foot-long pipeline will supply tertiary treated recycled waste water from Loreto Bay?s adjacent LBWWTP (Loreto Bay Waste Water Treatment Plant)
for use as cooling tower makeup water, firewater, service water, and process makeup water.
? Cooling tower blowdown water will be treated through a zero liquid discharge (ZLD) treatment system located on the project site. As a result, no
process wastewater will be discharged from the plant. A relatively small amount of salt cake will be produced by the ZLD system for off-site disposal
at an approved landfill.
? A 60-kilovolt (kV) on-site switchyard will deliver the plant's power directly to the grid through a double-circuit 60 kV transmission line that will
be located adjacent to the project site. This new line will be constructed along the projected alignment of the access road or an alternative road
alignment as part of the LB development and will be looped directly through the project switchyard.
? Approximately 1 mile of 10- to 16-inch diameter underground natural gas pipeline and an equal amount of 4 to 6-inch diesel pipeline will convey fuel
from the LB Fuel Storage Field to the project site.
? Potable water will temporarily be supplied to the project site from an on-site well. The project will use potable water from the Loreto Bay
Desalination Plant distribution system when this water becomes available as part of the build-out of Loreto Bay?s infrastructure.
? Storm water runoff will be collected in ponds located on-site and be redirected to the Loreto Bay Industrial Park?s storm water treatment facility
and bioswale.
? Sanitary waste water will be piped to the LBWWTP's influent junction structure, located approximately 800 feet east of the project site.
As you can see, the whole infrastructure thing is interrelated and no one item can really be addressed without including the rest.
Enjoy.
Mike & Robin; Full-Time RV\'ers
37\' Georgetown w/3 slides & 275 Watts of Solar Power
06 Taco TRD
www.turtleandtoad.com
I am here
To paraphrase Frank Lloyd Wright; I\'m all in favor of keeping dangerous weapons out of the hands of fools. Let\'s start with keyboards. --
Mike Dean |
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Cincodemayo
Senior Nomad
Posts: 725
Registered: 3-7-2005
Location: Pacific NW
Member Is Offline
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Toad...You have waaay too much free time!
Don\'t get mad...
Get EVEN.
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comitan
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4177
Registered: 3-27-2004
Location: La Paz
Member Is Offline
Mood: mellow
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TT
As I remember Morro Bay power plant takes in salt water because I remember them cleaning the filters(stink) and then to what degree changeing it to
fresh water, I understand they release fresh water because everyone fishes there because it seems to attract fish. If this is true couldn't the water
from the plant supply the whole area.
[Edited on 2-16-2006 by comitan]
Strive For The Ideal, But Deal With What\'s Real.
Every day is a new day, better than the day before.(from some song)
Lord, Keep your arm around my shoulder and your hand over my mouth.
“The sincere pursuit of truth requires you to entertain the possibility that everything you believe to be true may in fact be false”
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turtleandtoad
Senior Nomad
Posts: 730
Registered: 1-20-2005
Location: Wherever I park. See sig for current location.
Member Is Offline
Mood: Good if fishing
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Cincodemayo
Toad...You have waaay too much free time! |
Yeah, I can't seem to retire.
And it was work on this or do my taxes 
Mike & Robin; Full-Time RV\'ers
37\' Georgetown w/3 slides & 275 Watts of Solar Power
06 Taco TRD
www.turtleandtoad.com
I am here
To paraphrase Frank Lloyd Wright; I\'m all in favor of keeping dangerous weapons out of the hands of fools. Let\'s start with keyboards. --
Mike Dean |
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Cincodemayo
Senior Nomad
Posts: 725
Registered: 3-7-2005
Location: Pacific NW
Member Is Offline
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Toad...Let me guess...Engineer or ex nuke?
Don\'t get mad...
Get EVEN.
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turtleandtoad
Senior Nomad
Posts: 730
Registered: 1-20-2005
Location: Wherever I park. See sig for current location.
Member Is Offline
Mood: Good if fishing
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| Quote: | Originally posted by comitan
TT
As I remember Morro Bay power plant takes in salt water because I remember them cleaning the filters(stink) and then to what degree changeing it to
fresh water, I understand they release fresh water because everyone fishes there because it seems to attract fish. If this is true couldn't the water
from the plant supply the whole area.
[Edited on 2-16-2006 by comitan] |
The 1,002 mW Morro Bay plant is a 1950-60 generation plant (that is slated to be replaced by a modern 1,200 mW plant) that uses what is called
"once-through" sea water cooling. This water is pulled in from Morro Bay and discharged into Estero Bay.
There is also some ancilliary waste water from the steam plant that is also mixed into the outflow. This ancilliary water started out as fresh but has
low level contaminates when discharged (that's one of the sources of the "smell", the other is when they are cleaning the seawater side filters, which
collect seaweed and small sealife that get trapped in the filters and die). These screens and filters have been seen in a couple of movies. I think
one of them was a Bond movie.
The power plant does NOT make fresh water. The effluent is slightly less salty than when it came in. The fish and other sealife are attracted by the
warmer water. The power plant has to monitor and regulate the effluent to prevent excessive heat, low salinity, and heavy metal contaniments.
Unfortunately this warm water is a breeding ground for unwanted and non-native sealife that ultimately disrupts the local marine cycle.
This same cooling system will be utilized for the new plant.
My concept doesn't affect the environment because there isn't any effluent release (until it's been processed), and it doesn't use sea water cooling.
Thats the beauty of co-locating the power plant, the desal plant, and the sewage plant.
I doubt that the LB people have thought that far ahead.
Mike & Robin; Full-Time RV\'ers
37\' Georgetown w/3 slides & 275 Watts of Solar Power
06 Taco TRD
www.turtleandtoad.com
I am here
To paraphrase Frank Lloyd Wright; I\'m all in favor of keeping dangerous weapons out of the hands of fools. Let\'s start with keyboards. --
Mike Dean |
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turtleandtoad
Senior Nomad
Posts: 730
Registered: 1-20-2005
Location: Wherever I park. See sig for current location.
Member Is Offline
Mood: Good if fishing
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Cincodemayo
Toad...Let me guess...Engineer or ex nuke? |
BOTH !!!!
Boomers forever. Everything else are targets.
[Edited on 2-16-2006 by turtleandtoad]
Mike & Robin; Full-Time RV\'ers
37\' Georgetown w/3 slides & 275 Watts of Solar Power
06 Taco TRD
www.turtleandtoad.com
I am here
To paraphrase Frank Lloyd Wright; I\'m all in favor of keeping dangerous weapons out of the hands of fools. Let\'s start with keyboards. --
Mike Dean |
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Cincodemayo
Senior Nomad
Posts: 725
Registered: 3-7-2005
Location: Pacific NW
Member Is Offline
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T&T...I could just tell! My neighbor is a retired nuke and a great friend is about to retire in a year. He can just look at something to build and
it's done systematically....cars, boats..you name it. Bangor and Bremerton bases. Had tours on Tridents both in water and drydock. Absolutely amazing
in drydock how immense those are!
Don\'t get mad...
Get EVEN.
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turtleandtoad
Senior Nomad
Posts: 730
Registered: 1-20-2005
Location: Wherever I park. See sig for current location.
Member Is Offline
Mood: Good if fishing
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Cincodemayo
Been there done that! Had both as marine design clients before retiring.
But I started out on the old WWII diesel boats, USS Queenfish - SS 393. Open shears and a deck gun! You may have seen it; painted pink in "Operation
Pettycoat".
Lots of eardrum-popping fun trying to snorkle in rough water in those old boats.
Mike & Robin; Full-Time RV\'ers
37\' Georgetown w/3 slides & 275 Watts of Solar Power
06 Taco TRD
www.turtleandtoad.com
I am here
To paraphrase Frank Lloyd Wright; I\'m all in favor of keeping dangerous weapons out of the hands of fools. Let\'s start with keyboards. --
Mike Dean |
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Cincodemayo
Senior Nomad
Posts: 725
Registered: 3-7-2005
Location: Pacific NW
Member Is Offline
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T&T..
Well God bless ya for serving our country proudly and that goes for the rest of our Vets here on Nomad and abroad.
Don\'t get mad...
Get EVEN.
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terrybird
Junior Nomad
Posts: 37
Registered: 2-6-2005
Location: South of Minneapolis, MN
Member Is Offline
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the mongol hordes( aka: baby-boomers)
Well, I've been called a lot of things.....:moon:
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capn.sharky
Senior Nomad
Posts: 686
Registered: 9-4-2003
Member Is Offline
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Mongol Hordes
Hey!! These are our little brothers and sisters. For the really old guys...your children born after 1944. No one can help it when or where they are
born. Fact is, Baby Boomers, have lots of bucks and are looking for a better place to retire. Somewhere quiet and tranquil. I am older than a BB
but, I don't label them. They have worked just as hard as we did....if not harder. They want to come to Baja---let them come. Use this board to tell
them what to do and not to do to help them fit into the Baja scene.
If there is no fishing in heaven, I am not going
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capt. mike
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8085
Registered: 11-26-2002
Location: Bat Cave
Member Is Offline
Mood: Sling time!
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IS ANYONE EVER GOING TO POST HERE WHO ACTUALLY BOUGHT/LIVES AT LORETO BAY???????????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
all this speculative discourse is so mundane.......lets have some empirical events puleeeeeeze.
formerly Ordained in Rev. Ewing\'s Church by Mail - busted on tax fraud.......
Now joined L. Ron Hoover\'s church of Appliantology
\"Remember there is a big difference between kneeling down and bending over....\"
www.facebook.com/michael.l.goering |
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