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Barry A.
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You have a few "right", but mostly what you say immediately above is rediculous, IMO.
You have branded me in your own mind, apparently, and I think come to some wrong conclusions. That is a shame.
Barry
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Iflyfish
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Barry A.
I am assuming that you are being sarcastic, Fish----why I can only guess. Other than that I really don't know what you are trying to say. I am an
Agnostic, and always have been.
To the best of my knowledge, I don't lie, and my close friends and Family members don't either.
You may live in a different environment than I do.
Barry |
I'm not being sarcastic, that would be lying, like everyone else in my rotten little part of the world and I sure don't want to be like them! I listen
to my better angels.
IflyfishwithskipjackwhoclaimshumansarecongentialliersandwillnodoubtgotohellandhangoutwithOscarWildeandBaudelaire
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Iflyfish
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I have not branded you Barry, I have bantered with you. Have a good one amigo. I just wanted to throw some sand in the sandbox, haven't been here in a
while. I appreciate what you do for this board, and I am not lying!
Iflyfish
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Skipjack Joe
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| Quote: | Originally posted by monoloco
| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
What are you suggesting we do? Stop living... give more money to Al Gore... what?
We are doing the best possible to reduce pollution... even things that are good, like CO2... what all animal exhale and all plants inhale...
What is the crisis/ panic agenda's purpose... I think everyone is aware and is trying better... Man is not an alien here, he is a natural part of this
planet, afterall. |
I guess you didn't read the last part of my post where I said we shouldn't worry about it
because there's little we can do, and that all these greenhouse gas mitigation schemes are scams. No we are not aliens here, we are animals, and we
are temporarily out of balance with our environment, and like other species that become out of balance, we will eventually have our numbers reduced by
natural processes like increased mortality from pollutants, disease, predation (war), inability to produce enough food, etc. until we again achieve a
natural balance. You can't fight mother nature.
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Mono,
It seems to me that saying that we are destroying our planet but can't do anything about it is almost the same as claiming that we have no effect on
the planet and nothing needs to be done. In both cases there is a recommendation for inactivity. That's primarily why Barry likes your analysis.
I had this strange thought recently that in the end our animal kingdom will consist of pet cats and dogs, barnyard animals, and parakeets. We'll
conclude that's all we really need anyway.
Kudos to Mexitron who points out that one year of ice cap size change does not show any climate trend. The right laughs at GW trends of a few hundred
years as being too short yet here we are to take 1 year as a reversal. I am repeating your words Mexitron because they make so much sense.
Regarding why lying is wrong: because it destroys civilization. Civilizations are built on truths - one brick on top of the other.
There are many forms of lying and motivations for doing so. To me the most interesting form is not what is said in politics, nor wall street analysts
who misrepresent facts in order to line their pockets. The most interesting is self deception. IMO self deception is ultimately a form of cowardice.
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monoloco
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Joe, Perhaps I'm too cynical, but as I sit here watching the glow of the local dump in it's 7th day of burning, I can't help but contemplate that the
same thing is probably occurring at thousands of locations around the planet along with the untold millions of internal combustion engines, power
plants, factories, slash fires, and field burnings that pour millions of tons of pollutants into our atmosphere on a daily basis, and think that a
civilization that is built on a model of perpetual growth is probably doomed to implode. I don't mean to imply that we should do nothing, but I am
skeptical that our efforts will have any effect more than delaying the inevitable when the root of the problem is that there are just too many people
on the planet. Any steps that we take to reduce pollution are likely negated by the ever increasing global population and their need for resources.
The only real solution to the greenhouse gas problem is to reduce the population, something that is nearly impossible to legislate without a
repressive global government. Consequently, I feel that the only thing that will eventually lead to a reduced population is some sort of a global
pandemic, famine, or war. I don't think this is a pessimistic view, but a realistic analysis based on the way nature regulates other species when they
outgrow their resources.
"The future ain't what it used to be"
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Barry A.
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| Quote: | Originally posted by monoloco
Joe, Perhaps I'm too cynical, but as I sit here watching the glow of the local dump in it's 7th day of burning, I can't help but contemplate that the
same thing is probably occurring at thousands of locations around the planet along with the untold millions of internal combustion engines, power
plants, factories, slash fires, and field burnings that pour millions of tons of pollutants into our atmosphere on a daily basis, and think that a
civilization that is built on a model of perpetual growth is probably doomed to implode. I don't mean to imply that we should do nothing, but I am
skeptical that our efforts will have any effect more than delaying the inevitable when the root of the problem is that there are just too many people
on the planet. Any steps that we take to reduce pollution are likely negated by the ever increasing global population and their need for resources.
The only real solution to the greenhouse gas problem is to reduce the population, something that is nearly impossible to legislate without a
repressive global government. Consequently, I feel that the only thing that will eventually lead to a reduced population is some sort of a global
pandemic, famine, or war. I don't think this is a pessimistic view, but a realistic analysis based on the way nature regulates other species when they
outgrow their resources. |
I agree 100% with your analysis, Mono, and you have expressed it very succinctly and with wisdom, IMO.
Barry
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Barry A.
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Iflyfish
I have not branded you Barry, I have bantered with you. Have a good one amigo. I just wanted to throw some sand in the sandbox, haven't been here in a
while. I appreciate what you do for this board, and I am not lying!
Iflyfish |
Hmmmm, I think there is a compliment in there, and for that I am thankful to you, Fish. From your other recent posts in this thread I was not sure.
With a few exceptions, I think we ALL contribute to this Board, and that is why I remain--------after 10 years, you all seem like friends, if you know
what I mean.
I asked my wife of 31 years this morning if she had ever caught me in a lie--------her reply was "NO, and it sometimes drives me up the wall".
Hmmmmm, don't quite know what to think about that reply. 
I do know that I have never caught HER in a lie, and don't believe she does lie.
On edit: "self-deception is the worst form of lying and is cowerdice" says SkipJack------(or words to that effect). Hmmmm, I am not sure that
tracks, but an interesting concept. I will have to think about that one------'cowerdice' is sure a trigger-word.
Barry
[Edited on 9-16-2013 by Barry A.]
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Ateo
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Curt63
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Perfect.
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Ateo
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David: How can you say everyone is getting poorer? That's a pretty big statement that is obviously incorrect.
Iflyfish: I miss you on this board dude.
Another book on lying:
"Lying" by Sam Harris.
I have a digital copy that I will email anyone. The author says this is OK to do.
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wessongroup
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Spot on mono ...
And it isn't something "new" .... to the discussion ... anyone remember Zero Population Growth way back in the 60's ... never caught on HUH ... even
in China
I'm thinking "comet" or "astroid" to make a real change 
[Edited on 9-16-2013 by wessongroup]
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Barry A.
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Ateo
David: How can you say everyone is getting poorer? That's a pretty big statement that is obviously incorrect.
Iflyfish: I miss you on this board dude.
Another book on lying:
"Lying" by Sam Harris.
I have a digital copy that I will email anyone. The author says this is OK to do. |
With all respect, Ateo, why would one want to read a book on "lying"??? Don't we know what lying is?? All this relying on, or careing what an
author says or thinks on subjects like "lying" is beyond me, and smacks of mental-masturbation to me.
When asked a question, just be honest--------is that so hard?
Perhaps my strict views were partially shaped by my attendance at the US Naval Academy where "lying" is prohibited, and cause for expulsion.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honor_Concept
Barry
[Edited on 9-16-2013 by Barry A.]
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BajaRat
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Registered: 3-2-2010
Location: SW Four Corners / Bahia Asuncion BCS
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Mood: Ready for some salt water with my Tecate
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Barry A.
| Quote: | Originally posted by DianaT
| Quote: | Originally posted by Curt63
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Beautiful |
What is "beautiful"?? How can we "create" a better world-------for who or what??? Impliment all the things that the Global Warming crowd wants and
the world of man shrinks to new lows, at best, IMO.
Barry |
For who or what ?
How about for who and what we have left on the planet. Ether we serve our environment better or we will all get served what we have made of it. I
don't know whats worse to label a perspective or studies as alarmist for bringing up the fact that we have let industry and governments become the
stewards of our planet or to be a fatalist and say oh well there's nothing we can do about it. We can all do something to reduce our personal
footprint on this earth. Throw back the small ones, don't take what you can't use, compost instead of industrial fertilizer, shop for locally grown
produce, eat whats in season, take a walk ( while you still can ), turn off a light your not using, make one trip to town instead of two, on and on
and on. Funny part is those are all conservative ideas labeled as extremist by the consumer, commercial driven media. If you think any media source is
there to serve you first instead of there owners, employes and sponsors then their work is done. I would go out on a limb and say one of the greatest
things you could do for yourself and this planet is to watch less of it and do something more productive and positive.
Hope you like Humboldt Squid cause they seem to love the changes we, yes we have brought by drastically reducing the apex predators through unchecked
over fishing and industrial pollutants.
I'm sure all those glacier photo's from before and after are photo shopped and those NOAA temperature readings are doctored just to pee you off.
In Bahia Asuncion those alarmists at the Coop have recently spent alot of time and money to build a laboratory to raise abalone " seed " . Asuncion
lies at the southern most reaches of the North American Giant Kelp forests which is the food source for the abalone and many other local species the
community relies on for food and income. Those alarmists at the Coop realize that even normal cycling water temp increases decrease the number and
size of their target species, but permanent temp increases will render it inhospitable to abalone production that they are so carefully managing now.
Livelihoods in small remote fishing villages around the world will undoubtedly be affected by even small sea temp changes. But don"t worry or fret,
you should still be able to get your filet o fish sandwich for a while because industrial fishing operations will rape the Pollock fishery until its
no longer profitable.
Realize real lies, kill your TV and spend some time with family and friends while you still can. 
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Barry A.
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Well said, Rat, and I agree with you.
Barry
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mtgoat666
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y'all should read "Hot, Flat and Crowded."
My 2 cents: the USA can either be in the fore-front of a green revolution, or be playing catch-up in some other country's dust!
of course, you can stick your head in the sand and keep repeating: "lies, lies, lies!"
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mtgoat666
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| Quote: | Originally posted by mtgoat666
y'all should read "Hot, Flat and Crowded."
My 2 cents: the USA can either be in the fore-front of a green revolution, or be playing catch-up in some other country's dust!
of course, you can stick your head in the sand and keep repeating: "lies, lies, lies!" |
of course, many of you will never read a book by a NY Times associate, so here is cliff notes version from wikipedia:
In the book, Friedman addresses America’s surprising loss of focus and national purpose since 9/11 and the global environmental crisis. He advocates
that global warming, rapidly growing populations, and the expansion of the global middle class is leading to a convergence of hot, flat, and crowded.
The solution to the environmental threat and the best way for America to renew its purpose is linked: take the lead in a worldwide effort to replace
wasteful, inefficient energy practices with a strategy for clean energy, energy efficiency, and conservation. This means that the big economic
opportunities have shifted from IT (Information Technology) in recent decades to ET (renewable Environmental Technologies).[2] Friedman frequently
uses 2050 as a marker for when it will be too late for our world to reverse the harmful effects of climate change.
Friedman writes that the needed green revolution of the title would be more ambitious than any project so far undertaken: It will be the biggest
innovation project in American history; and it will change everything from transportation to the utilities industry. This project is described in
terms of nation-building.
The book alleges we've gone from the "Cold War Era" to the "Energy-Climate Era", marked by five major problems: growing demand for scarcer supplies,
massive transfer of wealth to petrodictators, disruptive climate change, poor have-nots falling behind, and an accelerating loss of biodiversity. A
green strategy is not simply about generating electric power, it is a new way of generating national power.[2]
Many of the primary points of the book were built out of his New York Times Magazine essay "The Power of Green"[3] and the "Foreign Policy" article
"The First Law of Petropolitics"[4]
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MMc
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Nicely put Rat, We all should think about the things we only use once. the world would be cleaner.
"Never teach a pig to sing it frustrates you and annoys the pig" - W.C.Fields
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soulpatch
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Christ, I hate it when MTNGOAT says something that makes sense and destroys the image I prefer to have of him.
I read something about this preference in a study somewhere.....
Nice read and recommendation. Clearly the USA needs to lead. This would take real courage by the citizens of the USA and involve a sea change in the
philosophy of cheaper is better and how we view products developed and manufactured in the USA vs. the cheapest piece of crap you can buy to save a
penny.
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BajaRat
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Right !
Think of all tech and production we could experience with that approach.
We can't compete with cheap labor and a disposable plastic product culture but we can compete with tech and products that last.
Example; The rubber buckets we use on the ranchito and abroad are Made in the USA, made from recycled tires, cost three times more but last a
lifetime. There's a job not farmed out overseas and the worker spends his money here helping boost the economy.
I don't know how much money I spent on disposable plastic piece of S#@$ buckets but I do know I was contributing to land fills and a spiraling out of
control trade deficit. 
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Barry A.
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| Quote: | Originally posted by BajaRat
Right !
Think of all tech and production we could experience with that approach.
We can't compete with cheap labor and a disposable plastic product culture but we can compete with tech and products that last.
Example; The rubber buckets we use on the ranchito and abroad are Made in the USA, made from recycled tires, cost three times more but last a
lifetime. There's a job not farmed out overseas and the worker spends his money here helping boost the economy.
I don't know how much money I spent on disposable plastic piece of S#@$ buckets but I do know I was contributing to land fills and a spiraling out of
control trade deficit. |
Yep------I have a couple of those "rubber buckets" made in the USA that I have had at least 20 years, stored outside, and still going strong.
Excellent point.
barry
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monoloco
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Given our current economic and political situation, the only thing that I see the US taking the lead in is corporate greed. It's very hard to build
any kind of an altruistic vision for the betterment of the environment when so many more each year are just struggling to survive being fleeced by a
fascist corporatocracy whose quest to monetize everything, knows no bounds, and reduces every good intention at solving environmental problems into
some kind of scheme to enrich themselves.
"The future ain't what it used to be"
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