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Skipjack Joe
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| Quote: | Originally posted by lizard lips
We know from the rancher what he saw and the family had a view but we don't know exactly what items they observed while at the Catavina PD. Just a
waiting game right now.
A rattler could have very well hit him or a hungry Mountain Lion or a group of Coyotes. It's all a guessing game right now.
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The rancher claimed to have found the 4Runner with it's wheels buried in sand and shovels and rakes used to dig it out.
It's unlikely he perished from animal bites. The things you mention are infrequent and to have it occur at the same time as a stuck vehicle, also
infrequent, is astronomically small.
It would have really been helpful if he had called the authorities to verify the condition of the vehicle at the place where they found it. Photos of
the actual site, measurements, anything. Much of the speculation now is because he had it towed. Although in his defense he had no way of knowing of a
missing person. He just thought it was an abandoned vehicle.
My opinion is that if he didn't perish near the vehicle it will be a very long, long time before he is found.
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danaeb
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Which brings us back where we started. If Gary had perished in the vicinity of the car, a rancher with 80 head of cattle would surely have
investigated circling vultures, wouldn't he? I'm sorry to be so indelicate but the vultures would have been there.
Experience enables you to recognize a mistake every time you repeat it.
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805gregg
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The body is far from the car, the car was driven and dumped there to lead you away from the body, why can't the Mex police figure these crimes out? Or
are they involved in someway?
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Mulegena
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| Quote: | Originally posted by lizard lips
What I do know is that the rancher found a phone number somewhere in the vehicle for the family and called. There are no land lines or cellular
operating in this remote area. The rancher said he called the family when he personally met with the police on March 05. |
Some considerations, LL, perhaps pertinent, maybe not.
To clarify what occurred when the car was reported to the police on March 9.:
The rancher used what phone to call the family?
Did he use the landline phone in Catavina police hq?
Did he use his Mexican cellphone?
Did he use someone else's Mexican or US cellphone?
Does someone in the family speak Spanish? You've indicated the rancher speaks no English?
Why did the rancher make the call rather than the police? The commandante speaks English you indicated?
How often does the rancher come down from his home in Maneadero to tend to his ranch? Who caretakes the ranch on a day-to-day basis? What is the
nature of the ranch, i.e. agricultural, cattle, goats?
"Raise your words, not your voice. It's rain that grows flowers, not thunder." ~Rumi
"It's the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." ~ Aristotle
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monoloco
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| Quote: | Originally posted by danaeb
Which brings us back where we started. If Gary had perished in the vicinity of the car, a rancher with 80 head of cattle would surely have
investigated circling vultures, wouldn't he? I'm sorry to be so indelicate but the vultures would have been there. |
Not necessarily, it's a big desert and circling vultures are quite common.
"The future ain't what it used to be"
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monoloco
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| Quote: | Originally posted by 805gregg
The body is far from the car, the car was driven and dumped there to lead you away from the body, why can't the Mex police figure these crimes out? Or
are they involved in someway? |
That is complete speculation. There is nothing that has been divulged here
that would indicate that a crime has been committed.
"The future ain't what it used to be"
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mtgoat666
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| Quote: | Originally posted by monoloco
| Quote: | Originally posted by 805gregg
The body is far from the car, the car was driven and dumped there to lead you away from the body, why can't the Mex police figure these crimes out? Or
are they involved in someway? |
That is complete speculation. There is nothing that has been divulged here
that would indicate that a crime has been committed. |
Without a body and cause of death, nothing here rules out crime as a probable cause.
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Skipjack Joe
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Agreed. But 805Gregg states his view as certainty and Monoloco corrects him that it's speculation.
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BeemerDan
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Maps are the clue
LL stated that Gary was given 2 maps, assuming one was Baja Norte, and the other Baja Sur.
(ask the family)
Who goes hiking out of a any situation without local knowlege unless they have a map?
If the vehicle was found with a Baja Norte map inside then I would guess foul play, if not he took a hike.
No criminal would think to remove the map/maps.
Forget your cameras, hoes, shovels, ranchers. etc
There lies the best clue IMO
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BornFisher
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| Quote: | Originally posted by BeemerDan
LL stated that Gary was given 2 maps, assuming one was Baja Norte, and the other Baja Sur.
(ask the family)
Who goes hiking out of a any situation without local knowlege unless they have a map?
If the vehicle was found with a Baja Norte map inside then I would guess foul play, if not he took a hike.
No criminal would think to remove the map/maps.
Forget your cameras, hoes, shovels, ranchers. etc
There lies the best clue IMO |
Please clarify the "best clue". A missing map??? This trumps the camera???
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danaeb
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The family stated that Gary's sister gave him a "set" of maps. You can't assume that it was two maps, one north, one south, from this scrap of info.
Experience enables you to recognize a mistake every time you repeat it.
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lizard lips
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Mulegena-All of my information regarding the rancher making the call to the family was second hand and you are right, the rancher does not speak
English however his daughter does and maybe the rancher called her and in turn called the Pattons. I will find out.
As mentioned in prior posts this is a cattle ranch. He has one employee that takes care of his property when he is gone.
The rancher makes one trip to his ranch per month and the time spent at the ranch can vary from one to two weeks.
I just sent the Pattons an email for help re: your questions however I would like to know, once you have this information, how this would bring us
closer to finding Gary especially the use of what phone, who owned the phone and where the call was made.What I mean is what is your thinking for
asking these questions and believe me you can ask anything and I will try and get the answer.
[Edited on 4-10-2014 by lizard lips]
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BeemerDan
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| Quote: | Originally posted by BornFisher
| Quote: | Originally posted by BeemerDan
LL stated that Gary was given 2 maps, assuming one was Baja Norte, and the other Baja Sur.
(ask the family)
Who goes hiking out of a any situation without local knowlege unless they have a map?
If the vehicle was found with a Baja Norte map inside then I would guess foul play, if not he took a hike.
No criminal would think to remove the map/maps.
Forget your cameras, hoes, shovels, ranchers. etc
There lies the best clue IMO |
Please clarify the "best clue". A missing map??? This trumps the camera??? |
Correct me if I'm wrong, it was stated the last pic taken on the camera was in Catavina? I'm a analog kind of guy and always go for the old school
obvious.
If you got stuck somewhere and had a map to get you out, would you leave it behind or take it with you?
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BeemerDan
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| Quote: | Originally posted by danaeb
The family stated that Gary's sister gave him a "set" of maps. You can't assume that it was two maps, one north, one south, from this scrap of info.
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Why would they give Gary two copys of the same map?
Most people I know that do the peninsula have a copy of Norte, and Sur.
Don't you? Like I said maybe ask the family.
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lizard lips
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Don't know anything re: maps or if the sister gave him any. I am assuming he did have maps and I will ask. No mention that maps were found in the 4
Runner and we probably won't find that our until the end of the month.
It was never mentioned where the photo was taken. It was mentioned however that it was a memorial made by the family of a guy that apparently died on
the highway.
[Edited on 4-10-2014 by lizard lips]
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lizard lips
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For all of you here posting and asking really great questions, I and the Pattons Thank You Mucho!
I must ask though if you are going to ask a question and have not read all of the posts, and there are about three hours of reading, to please start
from the beginning and educate yourself with everything that has been said. I know it's a lot but I will be here answering all day long regarding
questions that either have already been asked or were confirmed earlier.
I'm not attempting be a jerk but I'm getting really tired of going through everything three times. I hope you can appreciate what I am asking.
Thanks Guys!
This just in: Gary was given by his sister both Baja Norte and Baja Sur Automobile Club maps. Just those.
[Edited on 4-10-2014 by lizard lips]
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BornFisher
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Location: K-38 Santa Martha/Encinitas
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| Quote: | Originally posted by BeemerDan
| Quote: | Originally posted by BornFisher
| Quote: | Originally posted by BeemerDan
LL stated that Gary was given 2 maps, assuming one was Baja Norte, and the other Baja Sur.
(ask the family)
Who goes hiking out of a any situation without local knowlege unless they have a map?
If the vehicle was found with a Baja Norte map inside then I would guess foul play, if not he took a hike.
No criminal would think to remove the map/maps.
Forget your cameras, hoes, shovels, ranchers. etc
There lies the best clue IMO |
Please clarify the "best clue". A missing map??? This trumps the camera??? |
Correct me if I'm wrong, it was stated the last pic taken on the camera was in Catavina? I'm a analog kind of guy and always go for the old school
obvious.
If you got stuck somewhere and had a map to get you out, would you leave it behind or take it with you? |
So your best clue is a map left behind? And that means exactly what?
Most maps are for driving, with scales of say 1 inch equals 10 miles. Useless for someone who is walking and needs a very detailed map showing trails
and the topographic changes in elevation in a small area.
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BeemerDan
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Posts: 187
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| Quote: | Originally posted by lizard lips
Don't know anything re: maps or if the sister gave him any. I am assuming he did have maps and I will ask. No mention that maps were found in the 4
Runner and we probably won't find that our until the end of the month.
It was never mentioned where the photo was taken. It was mentioned however that it was a memorial made by the family of a guy that apparently died on
the highway.
If you do find the maps and I hope you don't mind one other suggestion.
I commonly highlight the routes I've taken or about to take. on maps. So maybe another clue?
I sent David K a similiar situation to fwd you that occurred years ago.
[Edited on 4-10-2014 by lizard lips] |
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BornFisher
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| Quote: |
This just in: Gary was given by his sister both Baja Norte and Baja Sur Automobile Club maps. Just those.
[Edited on 4-10-2014 by lizard lips] |
Last time I got a Baja map from AAA, it was ONE map with north on one side and south on the other.
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absinvestor
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I don't want to go back to get the exact quote but at one point LL said that if Gary was found alive that LL wanted the first crack at him- also a
Newspaper was mentioned. I interpreted those two posts to say that LL felt that there was a possibility (maybe remote) that Gary might be attempting
to not be found. If I interpreted those two posts incorrectly I apologize- It has been indicated that Gary took plenty of cash with him and no
withdrawals have been made from his bank account. (Strange over a 6 month period.) However, do we know if there have been recent deposits? Gary
receives social security which is required to be automatically deposited into a bank account. If the auto deposits have continued with no withdrawals
it is one thing- however, if the deposits have stopped we need to find out where they are now being deposited.
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