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BornFisher
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Posts: 2107
Registered: 1-11-2005
Location: K-38 Santa Martha/Encinitas
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| Quote: | Originally posted by absinvestor
If the auto deposits have continued with no withdrawals it is one thing- however, if the deposits have stopped we need to find out where they are now
being deposited. |
I don`t get it. What are you suggesting? He faked his death? Changed identity? Insurance scam? Or what??????????
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BeemerDan
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Posts: 187
Registered: 1-13-2011
Location: Port Orchard Wa
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| Quote: | Originally posted by BornFisher
Last time I got a Baja map from AAA, it was ONE map with north on one side and south on the other. |
Give your head a big shake and go to bed
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lizard lips
Super Nomad
Posts: 1468
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: EARTH
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What I meant by crack was if he just walks in the front door of his sister home and says "I'm home" I will take the trip to OC and be the first to
confront him… It was just a joke and no reference to him wanting to be missing….
I don't know about deposits ab-what I have been told that there has been no withdrawals.
Bornfisher-As far a AAA maps are concerned I don't have a clue all I know is that is what he was given…….Was it just one map or two?
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Mulegena
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| Quote: | Originally posted by lizard lips
Mulegena-All of my information regarding the rancher making the call to the family was second hand and you are right, the rancher does not speak
English however his daughter does and maybe the rancher called her and in turn called the Pattons. I will find out.
As mentioned in prior posts this is a cattle ranch. He has one employee that takes care of his property when he is gone.
The rancher makes one trip to his ranch per month and the time spent at the ranch can vary from one to two weeks.
I just sent the Pattons an email for help re: your questions however I would like to know, once you have this information, how this would bring us
closer to finding Gary especially the use of what phone, who owned the phone and where the call was made.What I mean is what is your thinking for
asking these questions and believe me you can ask anything and I will try and get the answer.
[Edited on 4-10-2014 by lizard lips] |
I'm looking for clarity and consistency in the details because there
is so little known at this point.
Who actually spoke to Gary's family? Was it someone acting on behalf of the police and acting as translator? If so for whom, the police or the
rancher? What information was given to the family by that person(s)?
"Raise your words, not your voice. It's rain that grows flowers, not thunder." ~Rumi
"It's the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." ~ Aristotle
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lizard lips
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Answers from the family. I know whats coming next-----Why wasn't a call made sooner than March 27th when the 4 Runner was found on the 4th? This
question I won't know and either does the family so we will have more speculation on this I'm sure and I welcome it:
The rancher used what phone to call the family?
==>He called me on my home phone from his family's business near Ensenada on March 27th.<==
Did he use the landline phone in Catavina police hq?
==>The Catavina police called March 17th from the Hotel Catavina phone because they do not have a phone (I believe they have a cell but there's no
service there so would not reach him anyway)
<==
Did he use his Mexican cellphone?
Father and family do not have cell phones just the office phone.
Did he use someone else's Mexican or US cellphone?
==>Called from the business.<==
Does someone in the family speak Spanish? You've indicated the rancher speaks no English?
The ranchers' family speaks good english.
Why did the rancher make the call rather than the police? The commandante speaks English you indicated?
==>The rancher called me to ensure the police had contacted us about the car being found, but the daughter's first question when I answered was is
Gary Payton there, are you his family? Is Gary still in Baja? I then said he is still missing, and she then informed me her father is who found the
car and called the Catavina police. And that was March 5th, but the police only came to get the car, tow the car, March 9th. Then they called me
March 17th.
<==
How often does the rancher come down from his home in Maneadero to tend to his ranch?
Who caretakes the ranch on a day-to-day basis? What is the nature of the ranch, i.e. agricultural, cattle, goats?
==>Rancher makes trips up to Ensenada every 2-4 weeks, stays a few weeks, then returns. Also does business in Ensenada. Not sure who stays at the
ranch, it's mostly cattle ranch, but maybe tractors and machinery as well. The rancher was very concerned that maybe nothing had been done by the
police and I told him I could not really substantiate whether search of any kind had been done.
This man even took the time to meet with Dan the following week for several hours. There is no reason to suspect this man of anything, I am
confident, we are sure. He has offered to help us when we come down, although he cannot supply anything, no water or supplies but he did offer to
help. He will be returning I believe in a few weeks too. <==
[Edited on 4-10-2014 by lizard lips]
[Edited on 4-10-2014 by lizard lips]
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absinvestor
Senior Nomad
Posts: 725
Registered: 11-28-2009
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BornFisher- I wasn't suggesting anything but if someone didn't want to be found it would be easy to change social security auto deposits to go to a
Mexican or any other bank. It would also be simple for a person that might have something to do with the disappearance to change auto deposits by
claiming to be Gary- I'm not suggesting anything but if the deposits are still going into the original bank account and there have been no withdrawals
it would help eliminate other possibilities. To LL- thanks for the clarification. I can be guilty of reading too much into a post.
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EnsenadaDr
Banned
Posts: 5027
Registered: 9-12-2011
Location: Baja California
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Mood: Move on. It is just a chapter in the past, but don't close the book- just turn the page
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I think we all have to keep in mind the truck was not there just until recently. This would indicate that Gary did not get stuck there in September.
Many are assuming he got stuck there and was looking for help. But if the rancher didn't see the truck until a month ago, then he never did go
camping or get lost there, unless he was wandering around aimlessly for 6 months and ended up there which is highly unlikely since there was no
activity on his bank account from September forward. Another fact another reader from another board is missing: the man left Jardines at 6 am. It
is at the most 2 hours to the turnoff he supposedly turned off at. Why would he decide to camp at 8 am? In any case, the vehicle wasn't there before
March.
[Edited on 4-10-2014 by EnsenadaDr]
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latina
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Registered: 3-19-2011
Location: La Paz
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The whole scenario seems to hinge on whether or not the 80 year old rancher's memory of being in the exact same spot in hectares of dense cactus and
brush and not seeing Gary's car there is infallible.
Having spent lots of time camping in the desert I know you could be ALMOST in the exact same spot and something low and grey could easily be obscured
by the tall cactus of varying shapes...
If the rancher's memory is correct, Gary could be ANYWHERE 
If the rancher has made a miscalculation, he would likely be found somewhere between the highway and the first sign of habitation towards the beach...
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absinvestor
Senior Nomad
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Ensenada Dr- The rancher's insistence that the truck was not there in Dec is also troubling to me. I just can't make myself believe that he is
mistaken. Absent his assurance that the truck wasn't there earlier I would have been on board with believing that Gary got on the road the day he left
Jardines an got stuck etc.
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Skipjack Joe
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8084
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Location: Bahia Asuncion
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Sorry Janene,
But virtually everything except the ranchers observations suggest that the truck has been there 6 months.
1) There are 150 unaccounted for miles on the odometer. That means he would have driven 150 miles in 6 months.
2) the car had tires buried in sand with shovel and rake excavations showing attempts to dig it out.
3) Unfinished food and drinks in car and melted ice.
4) Camera laying on front seat untouched.
5) Money in car and fairly exposed.
Tell me. What abducter in their right mind would leave a car in this condition?
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vgabndo
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3461
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Location: Mt. Shasta, CA
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Mood: Checking-off my bucket list.
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Skipjack Joe
Sorry Janene,
But virtually everything except the ranchers observations suggest that the truck has been there 6 months.
1) There are 150 unaccounted for miles on the odometer. That means he would have driven 150 miles in 6 months.
2) the car had tires buried in sand with shovel and rake excavations showing attempts to dig it out.
3) Unfinished food and drinks in car and melted ice.
4) Camera laying on front seat untouched.
5) Money in car and fairly exposed.
Tell me. What abducter in their right mind would leave a car in this condition? |
"SOMETIMES LIFE IS TRUER THAN FICTION."???????
Undoubtedly, there are people who cannot afford to give the anchor of sanity even the slightest tug. Sam Harris
"The situation is far too dire for pessimism."
Bill Kauth
Carl Sagan said, "We are a way for the cosmos to know itself."
PEACE, LOVE AND FISH TACOS
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lizard lips
Super Nomad
Posts: 1468
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: EARTH
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"SOMETIMES LIFE IS TRUER THAN FICTION."???????:lol
YES…...
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BajaBlanca
Select Nomad
Posts: 13196
Registered: 10-28-2008
Location: La Bocana, BCS
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"SOMETIMES LIFE IS TRUER THAN FICTION."???????
yup
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Taco de Baja
Super Nomad
Posts: 1913
Registered: 4-14-2004
Location: Behind the Orange Curtain, CA
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Mood: Dreamin' of Baja
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| Quote: | Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
I think we all have to keep in mind the truck was not there just until recently. This would indicate that Gary did not get stuck there in September.
Many are assuming he got stuck there and was looking for help. But if the rancher didn't see the truck until a month ago, then he never did go
camping or get lost there, unless he was wandering around aimlessly for 6 months and ended up there which is highly unlikely since there was no
activity on his bank account from September forward. Another fact another reader from another board is missing: the man left Jardines at 6 am. It
is at the most 2 hours to the turnoff he supposedly turned off at. Why would he decide to camp at 8 am? In any case, the vehicle wasn't there before
March.
[Edited on 4-10-2014 by EnsenadaDr] |
Your estimates on times are way off. There is NO way he got from San Quintin to that location in 2 hours. You have to remember, these are Baja roads,
not a freeway. On the pavement there are slow trucks, towns, windy roads, and military checkpoints. It's ~100 miles from San Quintin to the dirt road
turn off. This alone will take 2-2.5 hours, not including time to fill up in El Rosario on gas and food, it he chose too. It’s slightly more than an
hour from El Rosario to the turn-off, and this is the "fast" section. If he continued south to Cataviña to get fuel and back track, add more time in.
Remember too that area had some recent storms [I was on portions of the road he likely took at the very end of August, and got caught in one of the
first of a series of rain from the outer reaches of a hurricane, the roads were a mess] and once off road driving would have been slow with ruts,
washouts, and standing pools of water, as such the drive to the location where the truck was found could have been an additional 3 hours. So we are
now up to 5-6 hours. And who says you can’t camp at noon? It's not like a hotel with no check-in before 3:00PM; camping is supposed to be about not
having any set schedules.
This of course all assumes he went directly to this spot from San Quintin....I have seen nothing to point that this is what happened, as I
have seen nothing to point that he spent a couple of days exploring before going here....Then there's the rancher's testimony that the truck was not
here in December, and that shoots both theories down.
Truth generally lies in the coordination of antagonistic opinions
-Herbert Spencer
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EnsenadaDr
Banned
Posts: 5027
Registered: 9-12-2011
Location: Baja California
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Mood: Move on. It is just a chapter in the past, but don't close the book- just turn the page
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First of all the 150 miles could have been put on the car by someone else, and we don't know what side trips Gary might have made, so it is not
entirely accurate to the mile.
Secondly, he could have had food in the car when the car was taken. The abductor wouldn't have to eat the food to prove the car was stolen from Gary.
Did anyone think the reason the Rancher didn't try to drive the car is that he was using the rake and shovel to dig the car out? Why are we assuming
it was Gary?
How much money was in the car? I thought his wallet was missing?
I don't laugh at any of your observations so I would appreciate the same respect Vagabundo.
Why then would Gary leave and end up in a place 2 hours later camping? As someone else said there was a much better route to follow for the fish/surf
camps on the coast.
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EnsenadaDr
Banned
Posts: 5027
Registered: 9-12-2011
Location: Baja California
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Mood: Move on. It is just a chapter in the past, but don't close the book- just turn the page
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Someone also said the car would have been covered in mud if he had gone towards the coast. | Quote: | Originally posted by Taco de Baja
| Quote: | Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
I think we all have to keep in mind the truck was not there just until recently. This would indicate that Gary did not get stuck there in September.
Many are assuming he got stuck there and was looking for help. But if the rancher didn't see the truck until a month ago, then he never did go
camping or get lost there, unless he was wandering around aimlessly for 6 months and ended up there which is highly unlikely since there was no
activity on his bank account from September forward. Another fact another reader from another board is missing: the man left Jardines at 6 am. It
is at the most 2 hours to the turnoff he supposedly turned off at. Why would he decide to camp at 8 am? In any case, the vehicle wasn't there before
March.
[Edited on 4-10-2014 by EnsenadaDr] |
Your estimates on times are way off. There is NO way he got from San Quintin to that location in 2 hours. You have to remember, these are Baja roads,
not a freeway. On the pavement there are slow trucks, towns, windy roads, and military checkpoints. It's ~100 miles from San Quintin to the dirt road
turn off. This alone will take 2-2.5 hours, not including time to fill up in El Rosario on gas and food, it he chose too. It’s slightly more than an
hour from El Rosario to the turn-off, and this is the "fast" section. If he continued south to Cataviña to get fuel and back track, add more time in.
Remember too that area had some recent storms [I was on portions of the road he likely took at the very end of August, and got caught in one of the
first of a series of rain from the outer reaches of a hurricane, the roads were a mess] and once off road driving would have been slow with ruts,
washouts, and standing pools of water, as such the drive to the location where the truck was found could have been an additional 3 hours. So we are
now up to 5-6 hours. And who says you can’t camp at noon? It's not like a hotel with no check-in before 3:00PM; camping is supposed to be about not
having any set schedules.
This of course all assumes he went directly to this spot from San Quintin....I have seen nothing to point that this is what happened, as I
have seen nothing to point that he spent a couple of days exploring before going here....Then there's the rancher's testimony that the truck was not
here in December, and that shoots both theories down. |
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Taco de Baja
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Posts: 1913
Registered: 4-14-2004
Location: Behind the Orange Curtain, CA
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Mood: Dreamin' of Baja
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| Quote: | Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
How much money was in the car? I thought his wallet was missing?
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Who knows? I always hide money in several places in my vehicle, some relatively easy to get to, some not; in addition to a "small" amount in my
wallet. I usually have several $100, Gary was probably the same.
Truth generally lies in the coordination of antagonistic opinions
-Herbert Spencer
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Mexitron
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Location: Fort Worth, Texas
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It could have been covered in mud but the the next rains could have washed it off again. The rains would be a better explanation for being
stuck---mud is much harder to extricate one's vehicle from than is dry sand...
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Mexitron
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3397
Registered: 9-21-2003
Location: Fort Worth, Texas
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Mood: Happy!
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Skipjack Joe
Sorry Janene,
But virtually everything except the ranchers observations suggest that the truck has been there 6 months.
1) There are 150 unaccounted for miles on the odometer. That means he would have driven 150 miles in 6 months.
2) the car had tires buried in sand with shovel and rake excavations showing attempts to dig it out.
3) Unfinished food and drinks in car and melted ice.
4) Camera laying on front seat untouched.
5) Money in car and fairly exposed.
Tell me. What abducter in their right mind would leave a car in this condition? |
Seems to make the most sense....but so far, this case has been far from sensible.
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wilderone
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3824
Registered: 2-9-2004
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"There are 150 unaccounted for miles on the odometer"
What if he went to BOLA after Jardines, and was returning back to Jardines when he pulled off onto the Canoas/El Faro road. for overnight The weather
had been bad for a few days -probably not very good whale shark watching at BOLA; a post from 9/9/13 reports 2 inches of rain fell in San Ignacio - if
rainfall close to that fell around Catavina, there would be a lot of washouts and maybe arroyos flowing or wet and boggy? It's possible he didn't
know the roads to the coast were impassable, yet tried to go, got dissuaded, slept in the car because of the rain. Really need the cameras and memory
chips and "arrange by date".
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