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Taco de Baja
Super Nomad
Posts: 1913
Registered: 4-14-2004
Location: Behind the Orange Curtain, CA
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Mood: Dreamin' of Baja
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| Quote: | Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
Someone also said the car would have been covered in mud if he had gone towards the coast. |
True, but subsequent storms may have washed it off.
However, an examination should be made of the underside once the vehicle is released...That could be very telling. Mud = driven out soon after some
rain. No Mud = recently driven out.
After my August trip the underside was coated in mud, the top, not so much because of driving in rain ALL the way back to San Diego.
Truth generally lies in the coordination of antagonistic opinions
-Herbert Spencer
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Skipjack Joe
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8084
Registered: 7-12-2004
Location: Bahia Asuncion
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| Quote: | Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
First of all the 150 miles could have been put on the car by someone else, and we don't know what side trips Gary might have made, so it is not
entirely accurate to the mile.
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Janene,
The 150 miles covers side roads in baja PLUS 6 days of driving in the US. His odometer was checked 6 days prior to departure. Assuming he went
shopping before leaving there is little unaccounted for. How many miles do you put on your car daily per average? This is very strong evidence that
the vehicle could not have been driven for 6 months. Gary met his demise most likely within a week of driving south of the border. As LL said several
pages ago, this evidence is rock solid. There is very little wiggle room.
So what other possibilities are there?
Gary met his end in a week and then 4 months later the car was driven to the current location, had it's wheels buried in sand, food and drinks were
placed in the car, camera put on front seat, and money stashed between the seats?
It sounds preposterous. Yet we are left believing this as truth or that the rancher in fact didn't see the vehicle. To me, with the current
inforation, the choice is obvious.
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EnsenadaDr
Banned
Posts: 5027
Registered: 9-12-2011
Location: Baja California
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Mood: Move on. It is just a chapter in the past, but don't close the book- just turn the page
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If the weather was that bad he could have driven the next hour or so to a town on the main road. I have thought about him going to BOLA too and
turning off on his way back. But he wouldn't turn off the road in that kind of weather would he? | Quote: | Originally posted by wilderone
"There are 150 unaccounted for miles on the odometer"
What if he went to BOLA after Jardines, and was returning back to Jardines when he pulled off onto the Canoas/El Faro road. for overnight The weather
had been bad for a few days -probably not very good whale shark watching at BOLA; a post from 9/9/13 reports 2 inches of rain fell in San Ignacio - if
rainfall close to that fell around Catavina, there would be a lot of washouts and maybe arroyos flowing or wet and boggy? It's possible he didn't
know the roads to the coast were impassable, yet tried to go, got dissuaded, slept in the car because of the rain. Really need the cameras and memory
chips and "arrange by date". |
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EnsenadaDr
Banned
Posts: 5027
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Location: Baja California
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Mood: Move on. It is just a chapter in the past, but don't close the book- just turn the page
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Could very well be the rancher is lying...but I don't feel he is. So assuming he is lying, and Gary was stuck, what is the scenario? Where did Gary
go? | Quote: | Originally posted by Skipjack Joe
| Quote: | Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
First of all the 150 miles could have been put on the car by someone else, and we don't know what side trips Gary might have made, so it is not
entirely accurate to the mile.
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Janene,
The 150 miles covers side roads in baja PLUS 6 days of driving in the US. His odometer was checked 6 days prior to departure. Assuming he went
shopping before leaving there is little unaccounted for. How many miles do you put on your car daily per average? This is very strong evidence that
the vehicle could not have been driven for 6 months. Gary met his demise most likely within a week of driving south of the border. As LL said several
pages ago, this evidence is rock solid. There is very little wiggle room.
So what other possibilities are there?
Gary met his end in a week and then 4 months later the car was driven to the current location, had it's wheels buried in sand, food and drinks were
placed in the car, camera put on front seat, and money stashed between the seats?
It sounds preposterous. Yet we are left believing this as truth or that the rancher in fact didn't see the vehicle. To me, with the current
inforation, the choice is obvious. |
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Skipjack Joe
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8084
Registered: 7-12-2004
Location: Bahia Asuncion
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| Quote: | Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
Did anyone think the reason the Rancher didn't try to drive the car is that he was using the rake and shovel to dig the car out? Why are we assuming
it was Gary?
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Now that could be a good point. I thought the rancher stated that he had found the shovel and rake and dug dirt. Not that he himself had brought these
tools and tried to do it. In fact, when he arrived the battery was dead so digging it out would not make sense for the rancher. So no, I don't believe
the rancher was responsible for that.
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EnsenadaDr
Banned
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Location: Baja California
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Mood: Move on. It is just a chapter in the past, but don't close the book- just turn the page
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It was confirmed Gary had a rake and a shovel in his vehicle, however, the rancher could have been the one trying to dig the car out. | Quote: | Originally posted by Skipjack Joe
| Quote: | Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
Did anyone think the reason the Rancher didn't try to drive the car is that he was using the rake and shovel to dig the car out? Why are we assuming
it was Gary?
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Now that could be a good point. I thought the rancher stated that he had found the shovel and rake and dug dirt. Not that he himself had brought these
tools and tried to do it. In fact, when he arrived the battery was dead so digging it out would not make sense for the rancher. So no, I don't believe
the rancher was responsible for that. |
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Skipjack Joe
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8084
Registered: 7-12-2004
Location: Bahia Asuncion
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I don't believe the rancher is lying. Everyone is vouching for the honesty and straightforwardness of the man. There is no reason to question that.
After all he called the police and brought all of the evidence to them.
Anyone can make a mistake about not seeing something. I lose my keys 10 times a day and can't find them when I'm looking straight at them. That's why
I asked earlier about the exact spot where the car was. If it's on a flat plain like a salt flat (just an example) then the oversight is less likely.
But if he drove into an arroyo with a sandy wash lined with mesquite trees and elephant trees then it's more likely he didn't see it. And
incidentally, that's the kind of sediment that does bury the tires.
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mtgoat666
Select Nomad
Posts: 18051
Registered: 9-16-2006
Location: San Diego
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Mood: Hot n spicy
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| Quote: | Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
Could very well be the rancher is lying...but I don't feel he is. So assuming he is lying, |
perhaps "mistaken or lying" is a better word choice
| Quote: | Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
So assuming... Gary was stuck, what is the scenario? Where did Gary go? |
highest probability scenario: he started walking out for help, had a medical problem, and perished.
lots of speculation about violent crime, but violent crime is very rare in that remote area
----
most of this debate is pointless. someone just needs to get out there and look around.
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EnsenadaDr
Banned
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Location: Baja California
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Mood: Move on. It is just a chapter in the past, but don't close the book- just turn the page
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I highly doubt the rancher doesn't know his land inch by inch for as many years as he has owned it, that's his livelihood.. You are then saying he
missed this vehicle on his property for over 5 months? And no sign of Gary?
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Mexitron
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3397
Registered: 9-21-2003
Location: Fort Worth, Texas
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Mood: Happy!
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| Quote: | Originally posted by mtgoat666
| Quote: | Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
Could very well be the rancher is lying...but I don't feel he is. So assuming he is lying, |
perhaps "mistaken or lying" is a better word choice
| Quote: | Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
So assuming... Gary was stuck, what is the scenario? Where did Gary go? |
highest probability scenario: he started walking out for help, had a medical problem, and perished.
lots of speculation about violent crime, but violent crime is very rare in that remote area
----
most of this debate is pointless. someone just needs to get out there and look around. |
There is a lot of drug transporting activity out there though...if something happened maliciously, Gary may have had a run in with the wrong people.
We have heard trucks at night out there occasionally and have found direct evidence of trafficking. Not likely I would think however---the drug
runners want to stay far away from most people.
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Skipjack Joe
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8084
Registered: 7-12-2004
Location: Bahia Asuncion
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| Quote: | Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
It was confirmed Gary had a rake and a shovel in his vehicle, however, the rancher could have been the one trying to dig the car out. | Quote: | Originally posted by Skipjack Joe
| Quote: | Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
Did anyone think the reason the Rancher didn't try to drive the car is that he was using the rake and shovel to dig the car out? Why are we assuming
it was Gary?
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Now that could be a good point. I thought the rancher stated that he had found the shovel and rake and dug dirt. Not that he himself had brought these
tools and tried to do it. In fact, when he arrived the battery was dead so digging it out would not make sense for the rancher. So no, I don't believe
the rancher was responsible for that. |
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Why dig a car out with a dead battery? I supposed he could have jump started it and tried to then dig it out. He doesn't say that but it could have
happened. But then why was it towed to the ranch. Why not jump start and drive it back? Were the tires flat? It's been 70 pages. I don't know why it
was towed instead of driven. It doesn't seem important. Seems like we're going off on a irrelevant tangent. Many posts on this thread are like that.
It's hard to keep focused on good evidence. I suppose a detective like LL never considers anything as wasteful because the truth can pivot on just one
piece of information. As someone wrote, nothing is conclusive until Gary is found.
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TMW
Select Nomad
Posts: 10659
Registered: 9-1-2003
Location: Bakersfield, CA
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| Quote: | Originally posted by wilderone
"There are 150 unaccounted for miles on the odometer"
What if he went to BOLA after Jardines, and was returning back to Jardines when he pulled off onto the Canoas/El Faro road. for overnight The weather
had been bad for a few days -probably not very good whale shark watching at BOLA; a post from 9/9/13 reports 2 inches of rain fell in San Ignacio - if
rainfall close to that fell around Catavina, there would be a lot of washouts and maybe arroyos flowing or wet and boggy? It's possible he didn't
know the roads to the coast were impassable, yet tried to go, got dissuaded, slept in the car because of the rain. Really need the cameras and memory
chips and "arrange by date". |
It's 323 miles from San Quintin to BOLA and back to Catavina.
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latina
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Posts: 210
Registered: 3-19-2011
Location: La Paz
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Over the years the navy has found pangas loaded with drugs on the shorelines of Baja waiting for pick-up...so it is possibly a case of wrong place at
wrong time. That would be the only explanation for a person hiding a car not to worry about the contents...BUT then why the rake and shovel...it all
goes back to Gary himself.
And yes, mtgoat666, why isn't anyone looking for Gary? Until declared deceased he is still a MISSING PERSON....
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EnsenadaDr
Banned
Posts: 5027
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Location: Baja California
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Mood: Move on. It is just a chapter in the past, but don't close the book- just turn the page
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Look at all the millions of dollars and manpower they are spending on the Malaysian Jet, looking for pings. Seemed to me ridulous. But they are
making headway. This conversation I think is reconstructing what could have happened and getting to a more believable and credible scenario. | Quote: | Originally posted by Skipjack Joe
| Quote: | Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
It was confirmed Gary had a rake and a shovel in his vehicle, however, the rancher could have been the one trying to dig the car out. | Quote: | Originally posted by Skipjack Joe
| Quote: | Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
Did anyone think the reason the Rancher didn't try to drive the car is that he was using the rake and shovel to dig the car out? Why are we assuming
it was Gary?
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Now that could be a good point. I thought the rancher stated that he had found the shovel and rake and dug dirt. Not that he himself had brought these
tools and tried to do it. In fact, when he arrived the battery was dead so digging it out would not make sense for the rancher. So no, I don't believe
the rancher was responsible for that. |
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Why dig a car out with a dead battery? I supposed he could have jump started it and tried to then dig it out. He doesn't say that but it could have
happened. But then why was it towed to the ranch. Why not jump start and drive it back? Were the tires flat? It's been 70 pages. I don't know why it
was towed instead of driven. It doesn't seem important. Seems like we're going off on a irrelevant tangent. Many posts on this thread are like that.
It's hard to keep focused on good evidence. I suppose a detective like LL never considers anything as wasteful because the truth can pivot on just one
piece of information. As someone wrote, nothing is conclusive until Gary is found. |
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EnsenadaDr
Banned
Posts: 5027
Registered: 9-12-2011
Location: Baja California
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Mood: Move on. It is just a chapter in the past, but don't close the book- just turn the page
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Maybe with all the digging the Rancher did, if it was indeed him that was digging, he couldn't get the car to get out of the ditch driving it so he
had to tow it. Seems logical to me.
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TMW
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Posts: 10659
Registered: 9-1-2003
Location: Bakersfield, CA
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If you go from San Quintin to Punta Canoas, by way of Santa Catarina, to where the car was found it's roughly 140 miles. It would be easy to add
another 10 miles around Canoas.
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danaeb
Senior Nomad
Posts: 991
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Location: San Diego; El Centenario
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| Quote: | Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
This conversation I think is reconstructing what could have happened and getting to a more believable and credible scenario. | Quote: |
And what is that scenario Janene? There are as many scenarios as there are posters on this topic. We are no closer to the answer than we were in
September. It's all speculation. |
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Experience enables you to recognize a mistake every time you repeat it.
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Skipjack Joe
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8084
Registered: 7-12-2004
Location: Bahia Asuncion
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| Quote: | Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
You are then saying he missed this vehicle on his property for over 5 months? And no sign of Gary?
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So far as we know nobody has searched the area around the vehicle very stringently for Gary.
He's not going to be near the car. With all of those provisions he would be IN the car.
They should be looking for him in the direction of help or perceived help. Have to put yourself in his situation, think what you would do, and then
look in those places.
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vgabndo
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Location: Mt. Shasta, CA
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Mood: Checking-off my bucket list.
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| Quote: | Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
First of all the 150 miles could have been put on the car by someone else, and we don't know what side trips Gary might have made, so it is not
entirely accurate to the mile.
Secondly, he could have had food in the car when the car was taken. The abductor wouldn't have to eat the food to prove the car was stolen from Gary.
Did anyone think the reason the Rancher didn't try to drive the car is that he was using the rake and shovel to dig the car out? Why are we assuming
it was Gary?
How much money was in the car? I thought his wallet was missing?
I don't laugh at any of your observations so I would appreciate the same respect Vagabundo.
Why then would Gary leave and end up in a place 2 hours later camping? As someone else said there was a much better route to follow for the fish/surf
camps on the coast. |
Check my posts Doc. First I go by vgabndo, just for clarity. Second. Since I posted (for the second time, on page 46) my willingness to be at the
search site in five hours with my 4x4, my quad, my camping gear and my willingness to work, you have posted more than 50 times with bits of generally
meaningless conspiracy theories that you have pulled out of your...spare time. Even Lizard Lips, who has shown extremely admirable restraint, has had
to ask you to try to get a grip. I find it laughable that on the same day you would post "We'll find Gary, I'm sure of it." and then a short time
later: This will "...end up like Amelia Earhart one of the great unsolved mysteries." Then, there is your very astute observation that "Sometimes
life is truer than fiction." I'm still laughing, and you can laugh at my two offers to help with the search if you wish.
Thanks for volunteering to join the search (even though LL had to shame you into it.) And, "Lips" you are shining like a diamond man. I'm looking
forward to meeting you. Thanks for your work!
Undoubtedly, there are people who cannot afford to give the anchor of sanity even the slightest tug. Sam Harris
"The situation is far too dire for pessimism."
Bill Kauth
Carl Sagan said, "We are a way for the cosmos to know itself."
PEACE, LOVE AND FISH TACOS
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Skipjack Joe
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8084
Registered: 7-12-2004
Location: Bahia Asuncion
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| Quote: | Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
Look at all the millions of dollars and manpower they are spending on the Malaysian Jet, looking for pings.
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BTW, I've come up with a joke for that.
The Chinese are looking of Ping.
Get it? Ping is the character in Mulan.
All right, all right. Well, I thought it was funny.
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