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Bajahowodd
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And Mote To You, David
http://www.freemasons-freemasonry.com/regius.html
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Dave
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Against it
| Quote: | Originally posted by Bajahowodd
Employer drug testing is another example of invading one's privacy without probable cause. |
It is an invasion of privacy and a waste of resources. Employers should expect employees obey the law. A simple
signed agreement will suffice. Break specific laws...lose your job.
Additionally, I would favor all those convicted of a crime have their names entered in a database available to prospective employers. Let employers
decide who they wish to hire.
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k-rico
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Dave
| Quote: | Originally posted by Bajahowodd
Employer drug testing is another example of invading one's privacy without probable cause. |
It is an invasion of privacy and a waste of resources. Employers should expect employees obey the law. A simple
signed agreement will suffice. Break specific laws...lose your job.
Additionally, I would favor all those convicted of a crime have their names entered in a database available to prospective employers. Let employers
decide who they wish to hire. |
Just how long you been out of the U.S. of A??
That's there now.
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k-rico
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ok, ok, maybe not SOP for NY deli operators
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Bajahowodd
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I do believe that anyone convicted of a crime is already in a database. And responsible employers do a criminal check prior to hiring.
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Bajahowodd
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Jonesin' for Pastrami, Eh?
| Quote: | Originally posted by k-rico
ok, ok, maybe not SOP for NY deli operators |
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Packoderm
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"Additionally, I would favor all those convicted of a crime have their names entered in a database available to prospective employers. Let employers
decide who they wish to hire."
That's already the case - depending on the crime. If you park in a disabled spot and make a cripple walk two blocks you get a $445.00 fine, but your
name is not entered into the data base, so you can still work. If you are caught with possession of a marijuana joint, it's a maximum of a $100.00
fine, but your name will be in entered into the data base so you will have to stop working and start dealing to support yourself. If you're caught
with possession of enough vodka to kill yourself and two other people, there is no fine, and you can keep you job if you're able to sober up. So, the
law is uneven at best.
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k-rico
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Bajahowodd
I do believe that anyone convicted of a crime is already in a database. And responsible employers do a criminal check prior to hiring.
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For $50 anyone can get the police record of anyone else on the Internet. It's public record and the records are pretty much all electronic these days
and searchable. It used to take some work to get this info, now the WWW puts at eveyone's fingertips.
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Bajahowodd
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Ain't the computer/digital age grand? I remember when you could get a speeding ticket in Nevada, and California would never know about it. Progress,
eh?
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Dave
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Bajahowodd
I do believe that anyone convicted of a crime is already in a database. And responsible employers do a criminal check prior to
hiring. |
With the permission of the prospective employee. A subtle but distinct difference.
What I propose is unfettered public access. A modern day Scarlet Letter.
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toneart
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Packoderm
| Quote: | Originally posted by monoloco
| Quote: | Originally posted by Timo1
OK
Here's a question for you
What do you think about Malaysia where DA-DA is death ???
You get caught....you die
any amount
Its even posted at the airports....DA-DA is death |
I don't think it would work here. With all the appeals
that go with a death sentence it takes about 10 years to execute even the most heinous of murderer. We would need a lot of new prisons just to hold
the backlog. |
If it came to that, it would be likely such intolerance would also spread to other facets of American life. In that case I'd apply to move to Canada
or elsewhere because the U.S. would no longer be America in the sense of the word. I have an even better idea, those who want Singapore or Muslim
style justice could just simply move to a suitable country today. Problem solved. |
We came very close to this kind of indiscriminate intolerance in very recent years, and the mindset is still hanging around, ready to come back to
bite us. Look out!  (Examples to follow).
The drug war is an industry. In fact, all war is big industry. Prison is a big industry and they are filled with not only deserving hard core
criminals (good!), but small time drug dealers and users, mostly minorities (not good!).
That is why the ACLU is necessary; to protect us from indiscriminate persecution and the denial of our civil rights. If the NeoCon,Cheney/Palin/Carl
Rove (notice I didn't say Bush because he was a weenie) group gets back in, peaceful opposition party protesters will be rounded up. That is what a
Police State is. That is what they did in the USSR. That is what they do in Iran. This is the historical pattern of repressive government regimes, and
you can project it for us, based on that kind of thinking that is pervasive here. The more they dumb down our educational system and vilify
academicians, the more
the Fox News/Limbaugh/Clear Channel Radio lemmings will be produced to fall into lockstep with their jackboots. Don't you ignorant Teabaggers dare
tell me about what is the meaning of Freedom!!!
"They" call us (Liberals) anti-American, and yet they were the ones violating our civil rights. They went a long way towards suspending Habeus Corpus.
The New York Times opined,"What is at stake (sic)is whether the Supreme Court itself will continue to have a role in defining the balance [of liberty
versus security] or whether, as the administration first argued four years ago, the executive branch is to have the final word". And yes, you could
make a case for wiretapping on an as needed ...probable cause basis. But they got the phone companies on board to indiscriminately violate
everyone's privacy.
I am all for locking up dealers (not users) of hard drugs. Meth is the worst! The users should only be incarcerated if they are caught and prosecuted
while committing a crime, such as robbery or burglary.
Pacoderm, I agree with your assessment but I would back off on suggesting that "those who want Singapore or Muslim style justice could just simply
move to a suitable country today." That is what "they" were saying to us during the Bush years. Even though there are plenty of "them" on this board,
they too are Americans. They have a right to live in the U.S.A and offer their opinions. We just have to be vigilant and not allow "them" to turn our
country into a Police State. These are the real "Freedoms" that we do enjoy and they must be forbidden to turn this into a Fascist Gulag.
Now, back to Mexico. I am considering, with interest, David's (elinvest's) map and plan for eradicating these Cartel thugs. I have argued against it.
It goes against my philosophical opposition to war. But now, in this string, I asked his opinion as to whether he thinks the Mexican Government has
the firepower, the organization, the military intelligence and the willpower to pull it off. I have doubts, but in light of the killings of this
innocent family, I concede that something must be done, if possible. The atrocities are getting so horribly unthinkable that it cannot be tolerated
any longer. We, the world, cannot stand by while this violence continues. The violence must stop!
If the eradicating sweep that David is advocating is possible (I still have doubts), then swift and total action must be taken NOW! If it can't, then
God help the Mexican people.
Flip Flop? Perhaps. I am indeed conflicted about this, but I am changing my mind about the solution.
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dtbushpilot
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Bajahowodd
Employer drug testing is another example of invading one's privacy without probable cause. If you have an employee who is failing in their job, it's
one thing. but the whole idea of randomness forces reliable employees to change their private lifestyle. There are companies who have meddled in the
private lives of their employees for years. things like alcohol, sexual activities, Etc. Just like the roadblock thing, if there is no apparent reason
other than the idea of intimidation, then it's wrong. Geez. i remember many years ago, working for a large corporation, being told the benefits of
Freemasonry. Implicit was the idea that one must become a Mason if they wished to succeed to higher pay grades. |
Random drug testing by an employer is one of the best deterrent to drug use on or near the job and an important tool to help the employer protect his
or her non-drug abusing employees from the dopers. As an employer I take my responsibility to my employees safety very seriously and a safe work
environment is essential to keeping qualified employees. When you work in an already potentially dangerous job the notion that your fellow employee
could cost you your life because he's stoned is something that most desirable employees won't tolerate....I don't blame them.
At our company we use company wide, periodic drug testing. All employees are called to the lunch room and attendance is documented. Everyone goes
through the line and draws a card from the bucket....everyone from the CEO to the floor sweeper. Everyone drawing a "winning card" (10% of those
present) goes immediately to the break room where a nurse from an outside testing clinic collects samples. It was terrifying at first because I was
afraid that some key employee would fail his test but in time we had fewer and fewer positive test results. Choosing those to be tested in front of
everybody made a big impact and I think has helped the occasional drug user decide if its really worth losing their job over.....dt
BTW, any employee can at any time chose not to participate, they are free to gather up their stuff and leave.
[Edited on 12-24-2009 by dtbushpilot]
"Life is tough".....It's even tougher if you're stupid.....
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Packoderm
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"Pacoderm, I agree with your assessment but I would back off on suggesting that "those who want Singapore or Muslim style justice could just simply
move to a suitable country today." That is what "they" were saying to us during the Bush years. Even though there are plenty of "them" on this board,
they too are Americans. They have a right to live in the U.S.A and offer their opinions. We just have to be vigilant and not allow "them" to turn our
country into a Police State. These are the real "Freedoms" that we do enjoy and they must be forbidden to turn this into a Fascist Gulag."
I already knew that. I was just trying to match them in the game of blowhard.
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Packoderm
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"Random drug testing by an employer is one of the best deterrent to drug use on or near the job and an important tool to help the employer protect his
or her non-drug abusing employees from the dopers. As an employer I take my responsibility to my employees safety very seriously and a safe work
environment is essential to keeping qualified employees. When you work in an already potentially dangerous job the notion that your fellow employee
could cost you your life because he's stoned is something that most desirable employees won't tolerate....I don't blame them.
At our company we use company wide, periodic drug testing. All employees are called to the lunch room and attendance is documented. Everyone goes
through the line and draws a card from the bucket....everyone from the CEO to the floor sweeper. Everyone drawing a "winning card" (10% of those
present) goes immediately to the break room where a nurse from an outside testing clinic collects samples. It was terrifying at first because I was
afraid that some key employee would fail his test but in time we had fewer and fewer positive test results. Choosing those to be tested in front of
everybody made a big impact and I think has helped the occasional drug user decide if its really worth losing their job over.....dt"
That could work, but randomly testing a person to find out if they smoked a joint last Friday night is un-American in nature.
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Bajahowodd
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dt- I can honestly understand your environment. But, this testing is used in jobs such as retail and consumer call centers. I cannot grasp justifying
control of one's personal life, in the absence of the threat to the safety of others, in order to maintain employment where the employee, by all
measurements, is doing a good job.
Tony- Think about it. There are nowhere near the resources to be able to carry out what David has suggested. Mexico is a huge country. It would be
like squeezing a balloon in one place. For grins, let's just say that what David proposes succeeds. Has that extinguished demand? Nope. So, other than
ridding your beloved Mulege of any threat by nefarious thugs, at the end of the day, someone, somewhere, will fill the void of supply.
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Dave
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How so?
| Quote: | Originally posted by Packoderm
randomly testing a person to find out if they smoked a joint last Friday night is un-American in nature. |
Isn't smoking a joint on American soil a 'criminal' act? Wouldn't it be un-American not to report it?
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Bajahowodd
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Dave- For someone not living in America, you have to look in the mirror.
Or maybe you are just being a provocateur. I dunno.
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tripledigitken
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Packoderm,
What do you think about the same employee breaking his contract by coming to the workplace under the influence?
Our Company has a similar policy to dt's. We have employees that are driving trucks on the public highways. I understand the owner's decision to
limit their liability, and trying to make the workplace a safer environment.
There is nothing "American" about getting loaded and putting others at risk in the workplace.
Ken
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Packoderm
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| Quote: | Originally posted by tripledigitken
Packoderm,
What do you think about the same employee breaking his contract by coming to the workplace under the influence?
Our Company has a similar policy to dt's. We have employees that are driving trucks on the public highways. I understand the owner's decision to
limit their liability, and trying to make the workplace a safer environment.
There is nothing "American" about getting loaded and putting others at risk in the workplace.
Ken |
No argument here. I'd treat it the same as if somebody showed up drunk.
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Packoderm
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"provocateur"
I have never heard that word before. I Googled it, and it is a bona fide word. I love it - it's a great word.
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