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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
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OK...Sounds good. Call in the Minutemen and the Guardian Angels.
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Dave
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6005
Registered: 11-5-2002
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Yet to be determined
| Quote: | Originally posted by JESSE
Don't you listen? IT IS NOT ABOUT PROVIDING IDENTIFICATION, its about giving local law enforcement, the power to stop anybody at anytime, simply
because he might be an illegal Mexican. |
The law states:
"For any lawful contact made"
I read this to mean 'probable cause'. If this turns out to be a blanket cover then I'm 100% against this law and I would expect it
will be ruled unconstitutional.
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Dave
I read this to mean 'probable cause'. |
Allow me to reiterate an earlier point. I believe it's relavent.
| Quote: |
Probable cause.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think this concept is difficult to explain to a Mexican. They don't know what it entails. They've never had that
consideration. |
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JESSE
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3370
Registered: 11-5-2002
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Dave
| Quote: | Originally posted by JESSE
Don't you listen? IT IS NOT ABOUT PROVIDING IDENTIFICATION, its about giving local law enforcement, the power to stop anybody at anytime, simply
because he might be an illegal Mexican. |
The law states:
"For any lawful contact made"
I read this to mean 'probable cause'. If this turns out to be a blanket cover then I'm 100% against this law and I would expect it
will be ruled unconstitutional. |
Its simple Dave, maybe hispanic police officers should ask white citizens of Arizona for proof of citizenship, at every traffic stop, and
Lawful contact made.
They would be raising hell if that happened.
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Bajaboy
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4375
Registered: 10-9-2003
Location: Bahia Asuncion, BCS, Mexico
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Maybe it's time for a National Identity card
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rts551
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6699
Registered: 9-5-2003
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Bajaboy
Maybe it's time for a National Identity card |
or a tatoo on the forehead?
how about rational immigration reform?
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Donjulio
Nomad
Posts: 376
Registered: 5-19-2009
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Bajaboy
Maybe it's time for a National Identity card |
Yeah thats coming. It's going to be a chip implanted under the skin.
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oldlady
Banned
Posts: 1714
Registered: 10-31-2005
Location: BCS
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Since the AZ law is a replica of the federal law....all Congress has to do is change the law. That's their job. It's controversial but Obama has
proved he can garner the votes for controversial legislation. The faster he does it, the less likely these fears of racism will materialize and he
becomes a hero to the Latino community. Monoloco's idea isn't bad either, Latinos in Arizona, if they are frightened that they may be subjected to
racism, should move to the sanctuary states that will welcome them and let Arizona figure out how to clean its hotel rooms and harvest its crops..
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64852
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
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Mood: Have Baja Fever
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I got asked for an ID many times (to buy beer)... and I never considered my 'civil rights' to be violated!
It is simply a matter of the LAW being obeyed and proving you are legal (to buy beer... or in this case to be in the U.S.)
The only fear anyone would have of being asked for an ID is if they are violating the law... The people of Arizona are tired of the federal government
not enforcing the law... so they are.
That poor Arizona ranch owner (who had been assisting Mexicans crossing the desert through his ranch, in need) who was murdered by illegals... was the
final straw to the tolerance of the good people of Arizona.
Where is the administration on their duty to the safety and welfair of the people of Arizona...? Why on the side of the criminals and law breakers, of
course! Shame, shame, shame...
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Donjulio
Nomad
Posts: 376
Registered: 5-19-2009
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Too bad the Native Americans didn't implement this system and run people out when they first started coming over. Wouldn't be having this problem now.
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JESSE
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3370
Registered: 11-5-2002
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| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
I got asked for an ID many times (to buy beer)... and I never considered my 'civil rights' to be violated!
It is simply a matter of the LAW being obeyed and proving you are legal (to buy beer... or in this case to be in the U.S.)
The only fear anyone would have of being asked for an ID is if they are violating the law... The people of Arizona are tired of the federal government
not enforcing the law... so they are.
That poor Arizona ranch owner (who had been assisting Mexicans crossing the desert through his ranch, in need) who was murdered by illegals... was the
final straw to the tolerance of the good people of Arizona.
Where is the administration on their duty to the safety and welfair of the people of Arizona...? Why on the side of the criminals and law breakers, of
course! Shame, shame, shame... |
And who is the "good people" of Arizona David? please explain that to me, because americans of mexican heritage are also "good people" and they
deserve the same rights as the "good people" of Arizona don't they?
Why should legal, american born, citizens of Arizona, need to feel different to you and to all the other "good people" of Arizona?
Basically, your stance is "we have a problem with illegals, so lets do something and if the rights of the legal immigrants or citizens of mexican
heritage are violated, too f bad".
I can't believe some people actually support this racist law, and even worse, nomads. What a damn shame.
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Mexicorn
Senior Nomad
Posts: 772
Registered: 9-15-2009
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| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
I got asked for an ID many times (to buy beer)... and I never considered my 'civil rights' to be violated!
It is simply a matter of the LAW being obeyed and proving you are legal (to buy beer... or in this case to be in the U.S.)
The only fear anyone would have of being asked for an ID is if they are violating the law... The people of Arizona are tired of the federal government
not enforcing the law... so they are.
That poor Arizona ranch owner (who had been assisting Mexicans crossing the desert through his ranch, in need) who was murdered by illegals... was the
final straw to the tolerance of the good people of Arizona.
Where is the administration on their duty to the safety and welfair of the people of Arizona...? Why on the side of the criminals and law breakers, of
course! Shame, shame, shame... |
How misguided can you be? They ask for your ID to establish your age not citizenship! I dont know you, but you should choose your words more
carefully! So have you come up with an idea? Please lt me know I'm chomping at the bit to hear what you have to say.
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BajaBruno
Super Nomad
Posts: 1035
Registered: 9-6-2006
Location: Back in CA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Happy
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Shortly after California Proposition 187 was passed by voters (1994) I took a road trip to the Yucatan. 187, before it was judicially smitten, was a
law that prohibited most social services from being available to illegal immigrants.
Well, the Mexican federal camino police, normally pretty decent fellows, spotted those California plates and pulled me over at every opportunity. All
of them mentioned Prop 187. So....I'd say those with Arizona plates may feel some pressure for a while.
Christopher Bruno, Elk Grove, CA.
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Dave
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6005
Registered: 11-5-2002
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by JESSE
Its simple Dave, maybe hispanic police officers should ask white citizens of Arizona for proof of citizenship, at every traffic stop, and
Lawful contact made.
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According to the new Arizona law, every police officer, Hispanic or otherwise... does. Whenever they ask for a driver's license. It satisfies
the requirement.
Despite what rts551 says. 
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BMG
Super Nomad
Posts: 1776
Registered: 6-10-2007
Location: La Paz / Bahia Asunci�n / Away from home
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I hope everyone has read the bill by now. Seems like a lot of folks are using emotional arguments that have little to do with the actual bill. Hate or
love the bill, but argue the facts as they are written in the bill.
This bill was enacted because the federal government has shirked its duty to protect our borders and failed to come up with reasonable temporary
worker and immigration regulations. The states bordering Mexico have been hard hit by the illegal alien problem. Arizona decided to address the issue
with a very un-politically correct law.
"Lawful contact" - originally I believed that this meant any contact between a law enforcement officer and a private citizen. I have now found out
that 'lawful contact' requires that the officer be in contact with a person when that person has violated a law or there is reasonable suspicion that
a law has been violated.
"Reasonable suspicion" - is a legal standard recognized in all federal, state and local law. If an officer has reasonable suspicion (as defined by the
U.S. Supreme Court), he/she may detain a person and require the person to identify themselves. Some states require printed identification. So far, the
Supreme Court has not ruled on the legality of requiring a U.S. citizen to show proof of identity. The new AZ law will require such written proof.
If a law enforcement officer is following the law, he/she will not be able to stop any person simply due to skin color. No one will be required to
show any identification that is not already required to be shown when a law is being violated as per existing law. I do not agree that the law is
racist or immoral. If a police officer uses the law to persecute any law-abiding person then that officer should be prosecuted for his/her illegal
abuse of power.
"This act shall be implemented in a manner consistent with federal laws regulating immigration, protecting the civil rights of all persons and
respecting the privileges and immunities of United States citizens."
I think the world is run by C- students.
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Mexray
Super Nomad
Posts: 1016
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: California Delta
Member Is Offline
Mood: Baja Time
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National ID card dance...
... I've always been of a mind that National ID cards weren't called for here in the USA - But I think I've changed my view....
1. when you get a US Passport and travel to any other county in the world, you have to keep your Passport within reach - it's essentially your
National ID card, abroad, and I don't see many arguments against the policy...
2. our Social Security cards are now issued at birth, staying with you for life - sure, your SSA card was never designed to be an 'identity' card, but
you have to fork it over when you get a bank account, driver's license, health insurance, and most importantly, when you get a job...your SSA card is
sure tagged directly to you, and currently is a de-facto National ID card...
3. every one who drives in the US has to get a Driver's License, which has your picture one it, essentially an ID Card when you're driving...think
about all the times you are asked to show your DL at business' when cashing checks, using credit cards, buying booze, etc., to prove you are you...
4. as of the 2010 Census, the Fed's now are able to connect your exact name to your home address WITH GPS co-ordinates of your exact location!...now
that's not a 'card', per say, but BIG BROTHER knows how to find you if they want too!...
So, maybe it's time for a tamper-proof (as much as possible) National ID card to be designed to follow us around all our lives, as these other 'IDs'
I've noted, follow us today...
A National ID card would have the advantage of being a positive ID for the purpose of voter registration to maybe cut down on the fraud at the ballot
boxes...
a tamper-proof (as tamper proof as possible) National ID card would seem to take the phony SSA and Green cards out of favor, as the National ID card
would be 'THE' ID card used for hiring, etc...
I understand Legal visitors here in the US must have their Visa or Green work authorization documentation at hand to show their legal status - what's
wrong with that?
What's my point here...well, I guess I'd like to see the USA be able to control the influx of 'visitors', permanent or short-timers, as most EVERY
OTHER DEVELOPED COUNTRY in the world does!...Try to visit anywhere overseas, and you have to get a visa and log into the country with conditions on
how long you can stay, what activities you can engage in, etc - and if you are found in violation they kick you out!...Many nations require you to
even show you return travel documents to insure they don't have to foot the bill when you leave!
My biggest fear is that some kind of nasty device that can do us great harm may somehow be imported across the porous southern boarder - there will
then be hell to pay for anyone not here 'legally'...there would probably be martial law enforced, especially at the borders, and who knows where else,
as real sanity goes out the window...something to ponder...
Ray
[Edited on 4-28-2010 by Mexray]
According to my clock...anytime is \'BAJA TIME\' & as Jimmy Buffett says,
\"It doesn\'t use numbers or moving hands It always just says now...\"
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oxxo
Banned
Posts: 2347
Registered: 5-17-2006
Location: Wherever I am, I'm there
Member Is Offline
Mood: If I was feeling any better, I'd be twins!
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| Quote: | | Originally posted by David KWhere is the administration on their duty to the safety and welfair of the people of Arizona...? Why on the side
of the criminals and law breakers, of course! Shame, shame, shame... |
What are you making up now, DK?
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capt. mike
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8085
Registered: 11-26-2002
Location: Bat Cave
Member Is Offline
Mood: Sling time!
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hahahaha
still arguing about this? its hopeless - the opposing sides will never agree.
do not come to AZ if you're not already a legal resident.
we are all gun toting rednecks. you won't like it here.
it's hot in summer.
except up north - which is full of wild Indians who will scalp you!!
hahahaha
formerly Ordained in Rev. Ewing\'s Church by Mail - busted on tax fraud.......
Now joined L. Ron Hoover\'s church of Appliantology
\"Remember there is a big difference between kneeling down and bending over....\"
www.facebook.com/michael.l.goering |
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capt. mike
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8085
Registered: 11-26-2002
Location: Bat Cave
Member Is Offline
Mood: Sling time!
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Please let us know where you are going.
why do you want to know?
formerly Ordained in Rev. Ewing\'s Church by Mail - busted on tax fraud.......
Now joined L. Ron Hoover\'s church of Appliantology
\"Remember there is a big difference between kneeling down and bending over....\"
www.facebook.com/michael.l.goering |
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yellowtail67
Junior Nomad
Posts: 42
Registered: 3-9-2008
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This law is the most retarded, profiling law on the books! Talk about RACIST!
My .02.
If EMPLOYERS were penalized for employing illegal aliens, illegal aliens would not want to be here.
It's sad to see and read the hatred, as so many of us in the U.S. travel to Mexico, have friends, have watched kids grow up, get married, etc,.
basically write, "build a fence" to keep "them" out.
Bottom line, if there are jobs, illegal aliens are, and will be, a fact of life in Arizona and the U.S.....period. Come down with serious penalties
on EMPLOYERS for hiring illegal aliens and most will leave. How many do you know who are great, law abiding, want to better themselves and family?
People like Hannity, Rove, Beck will continue to spout their bigoted, racist ideas as people will slowly believe them and not think for themselves.
That's a whole other can of worms with those marooons!
It's unfortunate in this day, there are people in Gov't who would support this bill! Then again look at the genetic make up of Govt. in the house and
senate. My opinion is the majority of people who support this bill need to look in the mirror about their own racism and bigotry issues!
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