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motoged
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6481
Registered: 7-31-2006
Location: Kamloops, BC
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Mood: Gettin' Better
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| Quote: | Originally posted by redhilltown
the animal will return if it is meant to be."
Why do I hear Doris Day singing "Que sera sera..."?
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Don't believe everything you think....
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Skeet/Loreto
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4709
Registered: 9-2-2003
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FACTS are FActs!
Basically I am not denying that there are effects of Over fishing of a certain Fish will cause it to decrease.
The only TRUE Fact I know about the demise of a Fish in the Sea of Cortez is the Tortouva up near San Felipe. The Factual reason is that this fish did
not migrate in and out of the Sea like yellowtail, Dorado, Squid, etc.
Yes Population Growth is the biggest problem. But What do the Non-beleivers say to do?? How will be Eat?? Clothe themselves??
I have seen and heard the same old thing for 50 years about Fishing. We are now eating a lot of Farm Grown Fish and Shrimp and Oysters.
The Faith Based People always have the Hope that thing will change, and generally they do, like the Large Growth in Sharks after being taken and
taken.
The biggest Problem facing us is GREED, Not over fishing. Just look at\the Obseity!!Somehow we are going to have to teach our next couple of
Generations the MORALS of life.
I think that we will have more Wars and I think maybe some Plague to take care of a lot of Population.
One of the Main things that I object to is the Out Right Lying and Cheating of the organizations the claim to be trying to do something to stop
Fishing. I understand that many of them are doing it to Scare People into their way of thinking so that they might have Control. It is a
Communist/Socialist way of trying to Destroy a Great Country like ours by attacking our Way of Life and getting more Govt control.
So many of the above type People have never been to the Sea of Cortez!!!!!!!!
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mtgoat666
Select Nomad
Posts: 19922
Registered: 9-16-2006
Location: San Diego
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Mood: Hot n spicy
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto
One of the Main things that I object to is the Out Right Lying and Cheating of the organizations the claim to be trying to do something to stop
Fishing. |
skeet:
the organizations that persist and successfully raise funds to fight the good fight do not lie and cheat. if they did lie and cheat, they would lose
donors. you only prove yourself to be an a$$ when you accuse people of lieing just because they disagree with you. you want to be taken seriously,
quit making childish accusations.
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Barry A.
Select Nomad
Posts: 10007
Registered: 11-30-2003
Location: Redding, Northern CA
Member Is Offline
Mood: optimistic
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| Quote: | Originally posted by mtgoat666
| Quote: | Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto
One of the Main things that I object to is the Out Right Lying and Cheating of the organizations the claim to be trying to do something to stop
Fishing. |
skeet:
the organizations that persist and successfully raise funds to fight the good fight do not lie and cheat. if they did lie and cheat, they would lose
donors. you only prove yourself to be an a$$ when you accuse people of lieing just because they disagree with you. you want to be taken seriously,
quit making childish accusations. |
It has been my experience, working for a "Resources Management Agency" (BLM & Natl. Pk. Serv.) for over 30 years, that Skeet has it about
right-------the eco-friendly organizations will do practically anything to get their way (tho they really do seem to believe what they say)----I have
seen it over and over again. Is it any wonder that many of us don't take these organizations very seriously anymore??? There is a lot of information
out there debunking much of what the over-zealous enviro folks say, and print, about the dire consequences of our ways, and I have personally
witnessed it over and over again working in the California Desert for so many years. Things are NOT all rosy, but the hand-wringing of some is way
over the top, IMO & experience, and their efforts to shove their ideas down our throats is not received well by many, especially when so much of
it is just so very exagerated, and downright bunk.
Barry
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mtgoat666
Select Nomad
Posts: 19922
Registered: 9-16-2006
Location: San Diego
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Barry A.
| Quote: | Originally posted by mtgoat666
| Quote: | Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto
One of the Main things that I object to is the Out Right Lying and Cheating of the organizations the claim to be trying to do something to stop
Fishing. |
skeet:
the organizations that persist and successfully raise funds to fight the good fight do not lie and cheat. if they did lie and cheat, they would lose
donors. you only prove yourself to be an a$$ when you accuse people of lieing just because they disagree with you. you want to be taken seriously,
quit making childish accusations. |
It has been my experience, working for a "Resources Management Agency" (BLM & Natl. Pk. Serv.) for over 30 years, that Skeet has it about
right-------the eco-friendly organizations will do practically anything to get their way (tho they really do seem to believe what they say)----I have
seen it over and over again. Is it any wonder that many of us don't take these organizations very seriously anymore??? There is a lot of information
out there debunking much of what the over-zealous enviro folks say, and print, about the dire consequences of our ways, and I have personally
witnessed it over and over again working in the California Desert for so many years. Things are NOT all rosy, but the hand-wringing of some is way
over the top, IMO & experience, and their efforts to shove their ideas down our throats is not received well by many, especially when so much of
it is just so very exagerated, and downright bunk.
Barry |
see, that is opposite of my experience. in my experience it is the natural resource extractors and their lap dog stooges in resource agencies that
are the liars.
seeing as how we are talking about fishing and marine ecosystems, how about the japanese that persist in whaling for "scientific research?" and how
about the IWC members that vote along with japan in exchange for kickbacks from japan in form of "economic development aid?"
oh, and don't get me started on how many consultants have written shady questionable studies (dare i say packs of lies) to support NEPA review of
projects on federal public lands.
and how many blm employees have broken the law or committed unethical acts to support loggers and ranchers efforts to abuse public lands?
enviro folks have to be vocal in the face of overwhelming corporate dollars committed to raping public lands and oceans. while corporate interests
have money to buy politicians and staff support, enviro groups have to wage the good fight on smaller budgets. barry, you remind me of what is wrong
with BLM staffers who dismiss environmentalists and suck up to industry.
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Barry A.
Select Nomad
Posts: 10007
Registered: 11-30-2003
Location: Redding, Northern CA
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-------and there you have it, folks---------the OTHER SIDE of the story!!! and with the typical "insults" thrown in, as usual!!!  
Thank goodness we all do make up our own mind, and hopefully vote accordingly.
MERRY CHRISTMAS, Goat. 
Barry
ps I agree with you, Goat on the whales----some of the other issues not so much.
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sancho
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 2524
Registered: 10-6-2004
Location: OC So Cal
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Barry A.
quote]
Is it any wonder that many of us don't take these organizations very seriously anymore??? Barry |
Speak for yourself Sergeant Friday, it may take a little
more intellect than some of YOU posess to comprehend the mission of some of the Conservation groups. Your bias
statement makes a pathetic attempt to taint groups such as the
Cousteau Society. With a view like that, do us all a favor
and stay in No Cal and out Baja
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mtgoat666
Select Nomad
Posts: 19922
Registered: 9-16-2006
Location: San Diego
Member Is Offline
Mood: Hot n spicy
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Barry A.
-------and there you have it, folks---------the OTHER SIDE of the story!!! and with the typical "insults" thrown in, as usual!!!
Thank goodness we all do make up our own mind, and hopefully vote accordingly.
MERRY CHRISTMAS, Goat.
Barry
ps I agree with you, Goat on the whales----some of the other issues not so much. |
sierra club has done much to protect public lands. i wholly support efforts of sierra club, nature conservancy, NRDC, greenpeace, WDF, WDCS, and a
host of others. if it wasn't for efforts of groups like that, govt employees would have long ago auctioned off the last scraps of wilderness and open
space.
barry, if citizens don't fight their government, government will do the bidding of the corporations and corporate lobbyists.
the western US would not have set aside open space and wilderness if not for the efforts of citizens working thru non-profit orgs.
so what if the orgs are occasionally a bit over the top? they have accomplished so much that is good!
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Barry A.
Select Nomad
Posts: 10007
Registered: 11-30-2003
Location: Redding, Northern CA
Member Is Offline
Mood: optimistic
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| Quote: | Originally posted by sancho
| Quote: | Originally posted by Barry A.
quote]
Is it any wonder that many of us don't take these organizations very seriously anymore??? Barry |
Speak for yourself Sergeant Friday, it may take a little
more intellect than some of YOU posess to comprehend the mission of some of the Conservation groups. Your bias
statement makes a pathetic attempt to taint groups such as the
Cousteau Society. With a view like that, do us all a favor
and stay in No Cal and out Baja |
Yes Sir, Yes Sir, Sancho-----------I am sooooo ashamed to be making such "pathetic" statements--------
I calls em like I see em, and of COURSE they are only 'my' thoughts, not yours, just mine. Hopefully Corp heads are reading this, and will send me
the usual mega-check in the mail.
I respect ANY organization that tells the truth------those that don't I try and call them out. I don't recall mentioning the "Cousteau Society", and
in fact have had their decals on my "Baja Rig" for over 25 years, and have been a member that long. (such rash generalizations you make here) 
--------and a MERRY CHRISTMAS to you, too. 
Barry
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Roberto
Banned
Posts: 2162
Registered: 9-5-2003
Member Is Offline
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Skeet, take your preaching of MORALS, etc., and stick it where the sun don't shine.
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Roberto
Banned
Posts: 2162
Registered: 9-5-2003
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by sancho
| Quote: | Originally posted by Barry A.
quote]
Is it any wonder that many of us don't take these organizations very seriously anymore??? Barry |
Speak for yourself Sergeant Friday, it may take a little
more intellect than some of YOU posess to comprehend the mission of some of the Conservation groups. Your bias
statement makes a pathetic attempt to taint groups such as the
Cousteau Society. With a view like that, do us all a favor
and stay in No Cal and out Baja |
Why is it that people like you can't make a point without attacking the person? Of course, I know the answer, but I really WOULD be interested in
hearing your explanation.
Will I get one? No, of course not. If you respond, it'll come in the form of a personal attack.
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Skeet/Loreto
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4709
Registered: 9-2-2003
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Goat: An Example:
In the Beautifull Yosemite Natl. Park:
Some years ago the Sierra Club decided there were too many People Hiking the John Muir Trail. They decided to do a study to try to get enough
information to Limmit the Number of Hikers; What They did.
They sent 30 to 35 Young People along the John Muir to measure how deep it was getting each yoear. If it went over 2 inches in a year they were going
to limit the Hikers in that area.
At and Near South Lake Pass there were about 30 of them that spent several Days Naked and smoking Dope and swimming in the Creek near the Trail. Went
back and Reported the Trail should not be used next year!!!
I can agree on some of the larger Companies using the Natrual Resoures and not cleaning up afterward. Most of the use of that Land involves giving
People Jobs and yes making Money such as the Forest Land and Harvesting of Trees Building Affordable Houses and then Bigger Houses{GREED Again} Same
with the building of Cars Bigger and more expensive Cars.
Question Goat: Why do these Nuts come on this site and Cry "The Sea of Cortez is Ruined!! Most have never seen it.
Goat do you want me to give you half of my Money that I make next year????.
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Barry A.
Select Nomad
Posts: 10007
Registered: 11-30-2003
Location: Redding, Northern CA
Member Is Offline
Mood: optimistic
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| Quote: | Originally posted by mtgoat666
| Quote: | Originally posted by Barry A.
-------and there you have it, folks---------the OTHER SIDE of the story!!! and with the typical "insults" thrown in, as usual!!!
Thank goodness we all do make up our own mind, and hopefully vote accordingly.
MERRY CHRISTMAS, Goat.
Barry
ps I agree with you, Goat on the whales----some of the other issues not so much. |
sierra club has done much to protect public lands. i wholly support efforts of sierra club, nature conservancy, NRDC, greenpeace, WDF, WDCS, and a
host of others. if it wasn't for efforts of groups like that, govt employees would have long ago auctioned off the last scraps of wilderness and open
space.
barry, if citizens don't fight their government, government will do the bidding of the corporations and corporate lobbyists.
the western US would not have set aside open space and wilderness if not for the efforts of citizens working thru non-profit orgs.
so what if the orgs are occasionally a bit over the top? they have accomplished so much that is good! |
Agree with some of what you say, but "over the top" erodes their credibility and is so foolish, in my mind, in that it dilutes their message. I and
my family left the Sierra Club (cancelled our membership) years ago because they lied about enviro-impacts of a much needed proposed ski resort in the
Eastern Sierra, thereby killing it---------to me that is inexcusable!!!
I consider myself an environmentalist (Sancho would not agree) but not a "radical" one--------I want a balanced approach, and acccept "man" as part of
the environment---------radical enviro's appear to want to just shut everything down to man, period. I can't support that phylosophy---it is
unrealistic.
Barry
[Edited on 12-22-2011 by Barry A.]
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Roberto
Banned
Posts: 2162
Registered: 9-5-2003
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by mtgoat666
sierra club has done much to protect public lands. i wholly support efforts of sierra club, nature conservancy, NRDC, greenpeace, WDF, WDCS, and a
host of others. if it wasn't for efforts of groups like that, govt employees would have long ago auctioned off the last scraps of wilderness and open
space.
barry, if citizens don't fight their government, government will do the bidding of the corporations and corporate lobbyists.
the western US would not have set aside open space and wilderness if not for the efforts of citizens working thru non-profit orgs.
so what if the orgs are occasionally a bit over the top? they have accomplished so much that is good! |
What about this? You support this pack of lies, propaganda and distortion too?
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mtgoat666
Select Nomad
Posts: 19922
Registered: 9-16-2006
Location: San Diego
Member Is Offline
Mood: Hot n spicy
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Roberto
| Quote: | Originally posted by mtgoat666
sierra club has done much to protect public lands. i wholly support efforts of sierra club, nature conservancy, NRDC, greenpeace, WDF, WDCS, and a
host of others. if it wasn't for efforts of groups like that, govt employees would have long ago auctioned off the last scraps of wilderness and open
space.
barry, if citizens don't fight their government, government will do the bidding of the corporations and corporate lobbyists.
the western US would not have set aside open space and wilderness if not for the efforts of citizens working thru non-profit orgs.
so what if the orgs are occasionally a bit over the top? they have accomplished so much that is good! |
What about this? You support this pack of lies, propaganda and distortion too? |
Keystone pipeline should not be exempted from NEPA. GOP is trying to exempt it from any and all enviro review. Shame on the GOP!
p.s. I think tar sands mining in Canada is creating a large swath of destruction. I find it sad to see such bad practices laying waste to so much
land,... but that is unassociated with pipeline route. The route selection should go thru enviro review like all other projects!
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mtgoat666
Select Nomad
Posts: 19922
Registered: 9-16-2006
Location: San Diego
Member Is Offline
Mood: Hot n spicy
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Barry A.
| Quote: | Originally posted by mtgoat666
| Quote: | Originally posted by Barry A.
-------and there you have it, folks---------the OTHER SIDE of the story!!! and with the typical "insults" thrown in, as usual!!!
Thank goodness we all do make up our own mind, and hopefully vote accordingly.
MERRY CHRISTMAS, Goat.
Barry
ps I agree with you, Goat on the whales----some of the other issues not so much. |
sierra club has done much to protect public lands. i wholly support efforts of sierra club, nature conservancy, NRDC, greenpeace, WDF, WDCS, and a
host of others. if it wasn't for efforts of groups like that, govt employees would have long ago auctioned off the last scraps of wilderness and open
space.
barry, if citizens don't fight their government, government will do the bidding of the corporations and corporate lobbyists.
the western US would not have set aside open space and wilderness if not for the efforts of citizens working thru non-profit orgs.
so what if the orgs are occasionally a bit over the top? they have accomplished so much that is good! |
Agree with some of what you say, but "over the top" erodes their credibility and is so foolish, in my mind, in that it dilutes their message. I and
my family left the Sierra Club (cancelled our membership) years ago because they lied about enviro-impacts of a much needed proposed ski resort in the
Eastern Sierra, thereby killing it---------to me that is inexcusable!!!
I consider myself an environmentalist (Sancho would not agree) but not a "radical" one--------I want a balanced approach, and except "man" as part of
the environment---------radical enviro's appear to want to just shut everything down to man, period. I can't support that phylosophy---it is
unrealistic.
Barry |
barry,
see, that is hypocritical.. you probably support GOP even though you might not agree with all of their platform nor all of their political hyperbole.
if you agree with 90% of what sierra club does, you should support them! silly to disown them over one project position!
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mtgoat666
Select Nomad
Posts: 19922
Registered: 9-16-2006
Location: San Diego
Member Is Offline
Mood: Hot n spicy
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto
Goat do you want me to give you half of my Money that I make next year????. |
Sure! I will U2U my address. Please send checks quarterly. Thanks!
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Barry A.
Select Nomad
Posts: 10007
Registered: 11-30-2003
Location: Redding, Northern CA
Member Is Offline
Mood: optimistic
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Mt. Goat said above-------,
"barry,
see, that is hypocritical.. you probably support GOP even though you might not agree with all of their platform nor all of their political hyperbole.
if you agree with 90% of what sierra club does, you should support them! silly to disown them over one project position! "
I simply don't agree, Goat----------if the Sierra Club lied about something I knew intimately about (I lived close by), then how can I possibly trust
them to not lie about things that I know little about??? I can't do that. Trust is EVERYTHING!!! especially on matters this important. No hypocracy
there (and besides we are ALL hypocrits----All of us). This last article within this thread on the KEYSTONE PIPELINE is a case in point-----they (the
eco-radicals) are STILL practicing dishonest journalism------they have little credibility with me, and have not for years.
I am a Republican, and a semi-right-wing one at that (I was a moderate prior to the Obama era)--------and so far I support the Republican platform, at
this stage in the process anyway, especially on economic issues.
Barry
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salttram
Junior Nomad
Posts: 50
Registered: 9-17-2003
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"and the animal will return if it is meant to be."
Really? And what faith-based brain trust leads you to that conclusion? Maybe we ought to just return to slavery and human sacrifice to please the
god(s)!
Hopefully the return of Kim Jong Il and Adolf Hitler isn't "meant to be".
I'm sorry, but that is just about the most craptastic thing I've read in quite a while . . .
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Barry A.
Select Nomad
Posts: 10007
Registered: 11-30-2003
Location: Redding, Northern CA
Member Is Offline
Mood: optimistic
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| Quote: | Originally posted by salttram
"and the animal will return if it is meant to be."
Really? And what faith-based brain trust leads you to that conclusion? Maybe we ought to just return to slavery and human sacrifice to please the
god(s)!
Hopefully the return of Kim Jong Il and Adolf Hitler isn't "meant to be".
I'm sorry, but that is just about the most craptastic thing I've read in quite a while . . . |
I will stick my neck out and say---------I believe what the author of that statement meant is that Nature is so complex and not understood that none
of us REALLY know what will happen down the line----------so therefore making incredibly costly decisions designed to change natural phenominae is the
height of folly, arrogance, wasteful, and there is no money to do it anyway.
Nothing "religious" about it, in my view.
Barry
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