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monoloco
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Quote: Originally posted by Timinator  | | Quote: Originally posted by rts551 | | Quote: Originally posted by Timinator | | I can guarantee the top NASA Climate scientist as well as all 16 of his co-authors are as corrupt as corruption gets. They live for, and will supply
you with data to fit any scenario you can think of. It's about grants, contracts and most important of all, the "follow-up" contract. I worked for
them, they are immoral POS! Period. |
How about the rest of the world's scientists? The thought that 90% of the world's scientists are corrupt makes me wonder if the world is flat. Even
the Pope has some faith in science.
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How about the rest of the worlds scientists? They weren't part of the project and aren't privy to ANY of the original data or QA/QC data. They go by
what they've heard other people say. No different than you looking at a post here and replying. Real scientists don't jump on board ANYWHERE,
ANYHOW or ANYWAY like they do with this topic. There aren't that many qualified climate scientists to start with and most of them work work for the
Government or directly paid by Government projects. They must keep the money coming in or they're gone. On top of that, ALL the scientists working
for any Public agency aren't the best and brightest, they're the ones who couldn't get jobs in the private sector. That's just how it is.
Not to mention, Government projects on Climate are given to the lowest qualified bidder. That means despite having 60+% of the contract money going
to "overhead/accounting" to provide all the reporting CRAP the government requires, they have to cut every corner they can to get the data to begin
with.
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Funny, that hasn't been my experience with the NOAA scientists that I know. They are government employees,
not "low bid" contractors. I have spent hours discussing these issues with them and they have always been very careful not to express their personal
opinions or make assumptions, but to focus on the data that they have gathered. They are very careful about their data collection methods and their
jobs certainly don't depend on them fudging it. I would also take issue with your statement that "they are not the best and the brightest", the ones
that I know are dedicated, smart, and serious about what they do. Not everyone is motivated exclusively by money.
[Edited on 7-25-2015 by monoloco]
"The future ain't what it used to be"
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ncampion
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| Quote: Originally posted by SFandH | What do the world governments have to gain by convincing people global warming is man-made if it were not true?
In other words, what is the objective of this government agenda folks like PaulW are talking about?
[Edited on 7-25-2015 by SFandH] |
Let's face it, governments live for crises! If there was no crisis for them to "save" us regular people from, why would we need them. Governments
are constantly trying to inflate their importance to the citizens. If there were no water shortages, power shortages, gas shortages or climate
changes for them to save us from, their importance would be diminished. That's the hidden agenda.
Living Large in Loreto. Off-grid and happy.
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bajabuddha
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| Quote: Originally posted by ncampion | | Quote: Originally posted by SFandH | What do the world governments have to gain by convincing people global warming is man-made if it were not true?
In other words, what is the objective of this government agenda folks like PaulW are talking about?
[Edited on 7-25-2015 by SFandH] |
Let's face it, governments live for crises! If there was no crisis for them to "save" us regular people from, why would we need them. Governments
are constantly trying to inflate their importance to the citizens. If there were no water shortages, power shortages, gas shortages or climate
changes for them to save us from, their importance would be diminished. That's the hidden agenda. |
HORSE HOCKEY. "Hidden agenda" my heinie. Government has just a few other cookies on their plate, like Iran nukes, destabilization of the entire
muslim Middle East not to mention possible nuclear threat with Iran/Israel... North Korea, ISIL/ISIS, idiot ultra-right gun nuts and movie theaters,
police out of control, prisons out of control... right or wrong, the POTUS has aged over 20 years in his face and I really don't think his concerns on
"hidden agenda" of global climate change is a major factor. Climate change, yes. Hidden agenda? C'mon really?
And, if you really want a "hidden agenda" from Government on "there is no climate change" it would be from Big Oil and Big Industry companies who with
huge contributions pull the puppets' strings, and that was the LAST administration, who denounce there is such a thing.
I've stayed out of this for a reason; this BS comes up every 3 -4 months with a different title but same-o thread with same people saying the same
things over and over, and i'm not going to change your mind with my beliefs and you damn-sure ain't gonna change mine, but "hidden agenda"? Oh,
please. I suggest conspiracy.com with like-minded agreed consensus nonsense. Nomania at its' best.
I don't have a BUCKET LIST, but I do have a F***- IT LIST a mile long!
86 - 45*
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Mexitron
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| Quote: Originally posted by Bajatripper | | Quote: Originally posted by Mexitron |
Well, there was a suitable site called Yucca Mountain but folks got scared I guess. Might indeed find a use for the spent fuel someday.
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This is the reason why some of those who have looked at Yucca Mountain as a nuclear repository got scared:
Geology
The formation that makes up Yucca Mountain was created by several large eruptions from a caldera volcano and is composed of
alternating layers of ignimbrite (welded tuff), non-welded tuff, and semi-welded tuff. The tuff surround the burial sites is expected to protect human
health as it provides a natural barrier to the radiation. It lies along the transition between the Mohave and the Great Basin Deserts.
The volcanic tuff at Yucca Mountain is appreciably fractured and movement of water through an aquifer below the waste repository is primarily through
fractures. While the fractures are usually confined to individual layers of tuff, the faults extend from the planned storage area all the way to the
water table 600 to 1,500 ft (180 to 460 m) below the surface. Future water transport from the surface to waste containers is likely to be dominated by
fractures. There is evidence that surface water has been transported down through the 700 ft (210 m) of overburden to the exploratory tunnel at Yucca
Mountain in less than 50 years.
Some site opponents assert that, after the predicted containment failure of the waste containers, these cracks may provide a route for movement of
radioactive waste that dissolves in the water flowing downward from the desert surface. Officials state that the waste containers will be stored in
such a way as to minimize or even nearly eliminate this possibility.
The area around Yucca Mountain received much more rain in the geologic past and the water table was consequently much higher than it is today, though
well below the level of the repository.
Earthquakes
Nevada ranks fourth in the nation for current seismic activity. Earthquake databases (the Council of the National Seismic System Composite Catalogue
and the Southern Great Basin Seismic Network) provide current and historical earthquake information. Analysis of the available data in 1996
indicates that, since 1976, there have been 621 seismic events of magnitude greater than 2.5 within a 50-mile (80 km) radius of Yucca
Mountain.
DOE has stated that seismic and tectonic effects on the natural systems at Yucca Mountain will not significantly affect repository performance. Yucca
Mountain lies in a region of ongoing tectonic deformation, but the deformation rates are too slow to significantly affect the mountain during the
10,000-year regulatory compliance period. Rises in the water table caused by seismic activity would be, at most, a few tens of meters and would not
reach the repository. The fractured and faulted volcanic tuff that Yucca Mountain comprises reflects the occurrence of many earthquake-faulting and
strong ground motion events during the last several million years, and the hydrological characteristics of the rock would not be changed significantly
by seismic events that may occur in the next 10,000 years. The engineered barrier system components will reportedly provide substantial protection of
the waste from seepage water, even under severe seismic loading.
In September 2007, it was discovered that the Bow Ridge fault line ran underneath the facility, hundreds of feet east of where it was
originally thought to be located, beneath a storage pad where spent radioactive fuel canisters would be cooled before being sealed in a maze of
tunnels. (don't you just love these "experts"? And they think they are qualified to make 10,000-year predictions!) The discovery required
several structures to be moved several hundred feet further to the east, and drew criticism from Robert R. Loux, then head of the Nevada Agency for
Nuclear Projects, who argues that Yucca administrators should have known about the fault line's location years prior, and called the movement of the
structures “just-in-time engineering.” In June 2008, a major nuclear equipment supplier, Holtec International, criticized the Department of Energy's
safety plan for handling containers of radioactive waste before they are buried at the proposed Yucca Mountain dump. The concern is that, in an
earthquake, the unanchored casks of nuclear waste material awaiting burial at Yucca Mountain could be sent into a "chaotic melee of bouncing and
rolling juggernauts".
Probably not a good idea to put spent nuclear fuel with a who-knows-how-long half-life cycle in a volcanic area where it could be launched into the
atmosphere some day--to say nothing of the earthquakes coupled with the fractures that lead directly down to the water table...no matter what the
"experts" say about how safe containers might be built. We have some containers up here at the Hanford Nuclear Reserve that are slowly leaking their
radioactive waste into the Columbia River. The reason nobody can settle on a place to build a storage facility is that there just isn't a place that
is guaranteed not to be subjected to a natural disaster some day. Hence, they keep piling the spent fuel in "temporary storage."
[Edited on 7-25-2015 by Bajatripper] |
So the waste is safer leaving it next to the ocean at San Onofre? Or Diablo Canyon?
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wessongroup
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To eliminate the concern over the findings of science, as based in ensuring a job and/or monetary reward
We could go back to where the "Church and/or King/Queen was in charge of science AND its findings .. 
As for San Onofre and Diablo .. be happy they are not approaching disposal the same as Japan.
Seems they have a significant "storage" problem .. given land storage limitations of an Island and are dumping it into the Ocean .. No significant
"risks" there HUH
And the excellent point on how many "plates" the President has to keep up in the air ... is spot on .. Comes back to what has moved from back burner
to front daily
This is just one of many significant issues humans face ... so lets have a beer and chill a little, we are all in the same boat, enjoy it while ya can
[Edited on 7-25-2015 by wessongroup]
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Timinator
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My old bosses are riddled all over NOAA's and NCAR's top positions and running most every GW data collection study AND analysis. The same one's that
fudged the data back when I audited the data that was used in the first GW Models (that I also worked on). That data, was completely unusable for
it's originally intended purpose which was Acid Rain studies. Why? Because it didn't meed the QA/QC for the study. But, since it wasn't
distinguished to not be used for GW it was. Why again? Because it's the largest temperature data set ever collected in the lower 48. Go talk to
your buddies again, this time be armed with more than their opinions that keep them employed.
These guys would and did do anything they needed to get follow studies and extended contracts. I was there, I worked with them and I was part of the
studies.
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wessongroup
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Perhaps an understanding of what the scope of subject is:
"Atmospheric sciences is an umbrella term for the study of the Earth's atmosphere, its processes, the effects other systems have on the atmosphere,
and the effects of the atmosphere on these other systems. Meteorology includes atmospheric chemistry and atmospheric physics with a major focus on
weather forecasting. Climatology is the study of atmospheric changes (both long and short-term) that define average climates and their change over
time, due to both natural and anthropogenic climate variability. Aeronomy is the study of the upper layers of the atmosphere, where dissociation and
ionization are important. Atmospheric science has been extended to the field of planetary science and the study of the atmospheres of the planets of
the solar system."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atmospheric_sciences
And here is a "tip" on arguments, as it relates to gender
[Edited on 7-25-2015 by wessongroup]
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bezzell
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haha not only is she gonna 'go after the guns' ... she's also going after the 'patheticos' ! 
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/hillary-clinton-climate-...
'two eyes and a brain'
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chuckie
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"REDNECK" Buddha shoulda throwed "REDNECK" in there somewheres.....
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monoloco
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| Quote: Originally posted by Timinator | My old bosses are riddled all over NOAA's and NCAR's top positions and running most every GW data collection study AND analysis. The same one's that
fudged the data back when I audited the data that was used in the first GW Models (that I also worked on). That data, was completely unusable for
it's originally intended purpose which was Acid Rain studies. Why? Because it didn't meed the QA/QC for the study. But, since it wasn't
distinguished to not be used for GW it was. Why again? Because it's the largest temperature data set ever collected in the lower 48. Go talk to
your buddies again, this time be armed with more than their opinions that keep them employed.
These guys would and did do anything they needed to get follow studies and extended contracts. I was there, I worked with them and I was part of the
studies. |
So your premise is that because you worked for some idiots that employed shoddy science and
fudged data, all climate scientists do the same? Seems like a stretch to me.
"The future ain't what it used to be"
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chuckie
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It is a stretch and not true.... Contracts at NOA and NCAR were/are awarded on many factors, price being one. Vendor rep. past performance, personnel
quals etc. all are considered, each given a weight in the consideration. Follow on's were subject to even tighter evaluations...Seems to be a lot of
smoke and animosity on Timinators part...????
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bajabuddha
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.... I wonder what he got fired for.... 
I don't have a BUCKET LIST, but I do have a F***- IT LIST a mile long!
86 - 45*
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chuckie
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He's a dang ol redneck....
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toneart
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-Monoloco, in response to Terminator:
"Not to mention, Government projects on Climate are given to the lowest qualified bidder. That means despite having 60+% of the contract money going
to "overhead/accounting" to provide all the reporting CRAP the government requires, they have to cut every corner they can to get the data to begin
with.
Funny, that hasn't been my experience with the NOAA scientists that I know. They are government employees, not "low bid" contractors. I have spent
hours discussing these issues with them and they have always been very careful not to express their personal opinions or make assumptions, but to
focus on the data that they have gathered. They are very careful about their data collection methods and their jobs certainly don't depend on them
fudging it. I would also take issue with your statement that "they are not the best and the brightest", the ones that I know are dedicated, smart, and
serious about what they do. Not everyone is motivated exclusively by money.
-Bajabuddha, in response to ncchampion:
HORSE HOCKEY. "Hidden agenda" my heinie. Government has just a few other cookies on their plate, like Iran nukes, destabilization of the entire muslim
Middle East not to mention possible nuclear threat with Iran/Israel... North Korea, ISIL/ISIS, idiot ultra-right gun nuts and movie theaters, police
out of control, prisons out of control... right or wrong, the POTUS has aged over 20 years in his face and I really don't think his concerns on
"hidden agenda" of global climate change is a major factor. Climate change, yes. Hidden agenda? C'mon really?
And, if you really want a "hidden agenda" from Government on "there is no climate change" it would be from Big Oil and Big Industry companies who with
huge contributions pull the puppets' strings, and that was the LAST administration, who denounce there is such a thing.
I've stayed out of this for a reason; this BS comes up every 3 -4 months with a different title but same-o thread with same people saying the same
things over and over, and i'm not going to change your mind with my beliefs and you damn-sure ain't gonna change mine, but "hidden agenda"? Oh,
please. I suggest conspiracy.com with like-minded agreed consensus nonsense. Nomania at its' best."
Here is me saying "YES!...and YES! 
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bajabuddha
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.... thank you, Tony.  (still trying to figger out the 'redneck' part)
I don't have a BUCKET LIST, but I do have a F***- IT LIST a mile long!
86 - 45*
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Timinator
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No, those shoddy guys I used to work with and for are the most awarded Climate Scientists in the United States and world today. That's my point. I
have no ax to grind at all, I retired at 41 years old many years ago working on these studies......
It's a lie, it's just politicians moving your money around. When has the Left every come out with ANYTHING based on science that proved to be the
truth? Ever? Anything?
Look at what they did with Healthcare; Based on 5 lies they told over and over again. They knew they were lies but they said it and their blind
followers repeat it to this day.
1) "most people don't like their healthcare plan" Over 80% off all people with a healthcare plan were happy with it.
2) "it will only cost 900B". It's 2.4 Trillion and still climbing.
3) "the average family will save $2400/year" Anybody saving anything out there?
4) "if you like your healthcare plan you can keep your plan" Ha, ha, ha.
5) "if you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor". Ha, ha, ha, ha!
So, having worked on climate change studies and having seen all aspects of the studies fudged to get the results desired by the people paying for the
studies, I'm more than a little skeptical, I'm actually kind of peeed at all the blind followers of anything the left pushes.
The GW models use data. Nobody can see the data or see the QA or QC of ANY of the data because it's a lie. What more do you need?
Follow the money. When you run into a brick wall, scratch your head and ask why.
Oh, one more thing. When ANY DATA from a study is shown to disprove the desired result. That studies data isn't used at all. It's not required to
so it's just shelved. None of the data is the property of the company who took it, it's the governments who paid for it and there are non-disclosure
forms with every study. The most transparent administration my ass.
[Edited on 7-28-2015 by Timinator]
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chuckie
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AHA! He's grinding a political axe, now I understand....the other allegations, before he tried to change the subject to healthcare etc. are mostly
BS...
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SFandH
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Watch out, hazardous logic ahead, politics have entered the scientific debate.
This WAS a pretty good thread because political ideology was left out.
You're correct Timinator, leftist scientists around the world are out to steal your money by producing bogus data. Quick, buy a gun and some gold, and
move to the outback.
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bajabuddha
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Just a matter of time until "THE LEFT" or "THE RIGHT" came into play, off-topic and soap-box. Surprised it took until page 7. I'm gonna go get some
tin-foil. Have fun, Timmy.
I don't have a BUCKET LIST, but I do have a F***- IT LIST a mile long!
86 - 45*
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chuckie
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Shame too....The people he is attempting to malign at NOA, ENCAR, NREL, and CU are some of the best.....
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