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EnsenadaDr
Banned
Posts: 5027
Registered: 9-12-2011
Location: Baja California
Member Is Offline
Mood: Move on. It is just a chapter in the past, but don't close the book- just turn the page
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We need to start working as a team vgabndo, I am sorry you think I am a flake. What do you mean Lizard Lips had to shame me into it? You aren't any
closer to the answer than anyone else. That being said, let's stop the verbal insults and get on with the real business of finding Gary. Glad you
have all the equipment to help out. | Quote: | Originally posted by vgabndo
| Quote: | Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
First of all the 150 miles could have been put on the car by someone else, and we don't know what side trips Gary might have made, so it is not
entirely accurate to the mile.
Secondly, he could have had food in the car when the car was taken. The abductor wouldn't have to eat the food to prove the car was stolen from Gary.
Did anyone think the reason the Rancher didn't try to drive the car is that he was using the rake and shovel to dig the car out? Why are we assuming
it was Gary?
How much money was in the car? I thought his wallet was missing?
I don't laugh at any of your observations so I would appreciate the same respect Vagabundo.
Why then would Gary leave and end up in a place 2 hours later camping? As someone else said there was a much better route to follow for the fish/surf
camps on the coast. |
Check my posts Doc. First I go by vgabndo, just for clarity. Second. Since I posted (for the second time, on page 46) my willingness to be at the
search site in five hours with my 4x4, my quad, my camping gear and my willingness to work, you have posted more than 50 times with bits of generally
meaningless conspiracy theories that you have pulled out of your...spare time. Even Lizard Lips, who has shown extremely admirable restraint, has had
to ask you to try to get a grip. I find it laughable that on the same day you would post "We'll find Gary, I'm sure of it." and then a short time
later: This will "...end up like Amelia Earhart one of the great unsolved mysteries." Then, there is your very astute observation that "Sometimes
life is truer than fiction." I'm still laughing, and you can laugh at my two offers to help with the search if you wish.
Thanks for volunteering to join the search (even though LL had to shame you into it.) And, "Lips" you are shining like a diamond man. I'm looking
forward to meeting you. Thanks for your work! |
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monoloco
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6667
Registered: 7-13-2009
Location: Pescadero BCS
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
I highly doubt the rancher doesn't know his land inch by inch for as many years as he has owned it, that's his livelihood.. You are then saying he
missed this vehicle on his property for over 5 months? And no sign of Gary? |
I'm sure he knows his land
well, but it is possible that, at 80 years of age, his memory isn't perfect. I'm 20 years younger and often can't remember the time frame of when I've
done something. It's far easier for me to believe that an 80 year old guy's memory is a bit fuzzy than to believe in some far fetched abduction
theory.
"The future ain't what it used to be"
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lizard lips
Super Nomad
Posts: 1468
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: EARTH
Member Is Offline
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I first want to say that what you are about to read is fact as I know it. I am not accusing any one person, government agency, or group of people.
This is just another take that I want to post and you can make up your own mind as to another possibility of Gary’s disappearance.
When I first learned about Gary’s vehicle being found and the talk with the rancher about his not seeing the 4 Runner there in December has been
nagging me to no end and reminded me of what I am about to tell you.
Back in the late 90ies the families of two Nevada men who went to Baja to fish and relax hired me to locate them. They were last seen shortly before
Thanksgiving at a home in San Miguel having dinner with friends. They told the friends that they were traveling south and would return in time to be
back by the holiday to enjoy Thanksgiving with family in Nevada.
Their vehicle was a late model Ford 150 with camping gear and an outboard motor, no boat.
I initially posted flyers everywhere in Ensenada and areas just south of town. I received a call from an Ensenada Policeman who was attached to an
outpost in La Mission, just north of Ensenada, who told me he was on patrol and found the exact same vehicle with the same color abandoned in his
patrol area. He said he contacted the Federal de Caminos (Mexican Highway Patrol) and they had it towed by a private tow company that is contracted by
them to their yard.
I contacted the private tow company and they said the truck had been towed to a Federal de Caminos officer’s private residence. I then contacted the
Feds and they would not release any information regarding this transfer and I explained that I didn’t care what they wanted to do with the truck all I
wanted was to confirm that the truck was either our guys or not and that could be easily done by checking the Vin number. They still refused.
I told the families what I had learned and within three days I received a long letter, in Spanish, from the office of Senator Harry Reid and
apparently this letter was also sent to the Federal de Caminos Department in Mexico City. One day later the head of the Federal de Caminos flew to
Ensenada in their private jet and raised holy hell. I wont go any further with what happened but you can imagine.
The vehicle was not the Nevada guys’ truck.
I then drove all the way to Cabo San Lucas posting flyers everywhere, and I mean everywhere. I stopped by all of the offices of every police station
and every Mexican Government agency that would be helpful and nothing. No calls from anyone.
When I returned home I received a call from a policeman in Rosario telling me that they had found two dead bodies in an arroyo however one of the
bodies was a woman, and was apparently confirmed by a medical examiner. I informed the family of this current piece of info and we both came to the
conclusion that this was not our guys’ in that a woman was found. Plus the bodies were so badly decomposed that noting was left except for hair and
bones. (Big mistake made by me).
Without going into a lot of detail the bodies were that of our two guys and the “confirmation” that one was a woman that was made by the medical
examiner in that the body was found with long hair. I should have followed up when I learned this but discounted it. You learn by your mistakes.
Bajaguy, who was attached with Nevada’s Interpol, came down with a partner and they also went as far as Cabo to search with nothing to report. This is
when I met him Bajaguy. He and his partner explained that these two guys families were very connected with state government and even knew Senator
Reid. It was also learned that the two guys owned apartment buildings in Nevada and were worth millions, on paper.
I remember sitting in the bar at the Marina Hotel in Ensenada sometime in February or March with one of the guys’ fathers, brother and brother in law.
They were in Ensenada to receive the cremated remains. The father seemed low key initially then he looked at me, raised his voice and yelled, WHAT THE
HELL HAPPENED? WHY COULDN’T YOU FIND MY SON? I was taken a back, and excused myself and went home. I put myself in his position that night as I laid
in bed thinking and cried. I’ll never forget it. It hits me right now remembering this…
In April I received a call from a producer at NBC who told me that he was doing a show about Mexico and wanted my help. He wanted me to go with him to
the exact area where the guys’ bodies were found and to give an interview. The producer and his crew came to Ensenada and we all went to Rosario where
I contacted the policeman there and enlisted his help in finding the exact location where the bodies were found. The crew filmed and I walked around
the arroyo looking for anything that may be related then he wanted me to talk on film. His questions pertained to the missing men and how very
dangerous Mexico was and all the crime blah, blah, blah. I did not give him what he wanted because I didn’t think Mexico was any different than the
U.S. when it came to camping on the beach or anywhere else. They deleted the entire interview with me. GOOD!
I had been in contact with the head guy at the Ministerio Publico (District Attorney) office in Ensenada and told him that NBC was coming to town and
they wanted an interview with him. This contact with him was the very day the NBC crew came to Ensenada and prior to our trip to Rosario. The head
guy at the MP office told me he would get back to me.
Two days later when we all returned to Ensenada my wife told me that she received a phone call from the MP office and that they were going to have a
meeting at 2 p.m. that day regarding the deaths of the Nevada men. Of course the NBC crew wanted to be there so we all went.
The meeting took place at one of their very large rooms at the MP office and there must have been three hundred people and a long table in front and
sitting at the table was the head guy.
This guy started off saying that he first wanted to extend his condolences to the families of the murdered men.
He then went on to say that they have caught a suspect that goes by the nickname “Cilantro” and that he confessed to being at the site where the men
were in their sleeping bags and then hitting them with a baseball bat and leaving them there. He said that Cilantro stole their vehicle. He then went
onto say that the men had contacted Cilantro earlier that day and told him they wanted to by a large quantity of drugs and because of this Cilantro
assumed that they had a large amount of money.
You can imagine how I felt during this meeting and the head guy talking looked at me quite often during his talk to see my reaction I assume.
After the meeting the head guy walked up to me and put his hand out to shake and I did. He looked at me rather strangely not saying a thing but you
can take that for what it’s worth.
Anyway after typing all of this I’ll get to the point. I’ve noticed that this time of year there is a lot of Mexico bashing regarding murders and so
forth on the television news. It seems more in April and May then any other time of year. Check it out. People in the United States are gearing up for
their vacations and it seems that the American news wants vacationers to consider staying in the U.S. to enjoy there vacations and keep the money in
the U.S. Of course this is my take.
What seems odd is that the rancher comes forward now and tells me what he found and what he didn’t see in December. I actually believe the rancher and
what he tells us makes sense. Do the Mexican authorities want news reports circulating at this time of year about a missing American? Now that the
vehicle was found do we just assume that Gary died because of the elements and him walking to find help as we have discussed and actually drove this
into the ground with posts or was he murdered and there is a “cover up”?
The tourism industry in Mexico is a ton of cash and how many would decide not to travel to Mexico if this became a big story?
I think there is a lot more to consider with this and we can go on and on with possibilities but this has been in the back of my mind for a long time.
Just wanted to throw this out there and get your reaction.
Again, what I have written is just a theory and in no way am I implicating any one person, government authority, or group of people.
It is what it is….
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absinvestor
Senior Nomad
Posts: 725
Registered: 11-28-2009
Member Is Offline
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Very interesting. Your post shows that this should be approached without any preconceived idea and no stone left unturned.
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lizard lips
Super Nomad
Posts: 1468
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: EARTH
Member Is Offline
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Of course right after I write the last post I receive an email regarding a news story in "El Mexicano" newspaper here in Ensenada about Garys
disappearance.
Below is from the family:
=> God bless us thru this to wherever it must go... Latest UPDATE of help in these publications now coming our way: Today this article is in the
El Mexicano newspaper! Next week it will be in BAJA Times, and last week it was in ECOS, their spanish version. Let's hope this close-up photo
along with information for diligent, caring people out there will direct him to us, us to him. Please bring some hope to us, nomads, tell us who you
can spread this word to and the photo. Knowing Gary as we do, he may be limping along but it doesn't mean he's fallen. Ideas for where he could be
surviving are most welcome. We know that It is much easier to think the worst. You've all hung in there with us this far, please hang in a little
longer .. with faith and your healthy energy. Thank you, all.
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55steve
Senior Nomad
Posts: 857
Registered: 4-24-2006
Location: Warner Springs, CA
Member Is Offline
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I'm a mechanical sort and experience tells me that the average fully charged battery in a modern vehicle has about a 90 day charge before the voltage
drops to the point of not starting the engine - this is due to several low draw systems that are always "on" in modern vehicles.
Also, Gary hopefully set the date/time on his camera. I have forgotten to do this before when the battery goes dead.
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bufeo
Senior Nomad
Posts: 793
Registered: 11-16-2003
Location: Santa Fe New Mexico
Member Is Offline
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An article re: LL's narrative about the Nevada men can be found HERE
Allen R.
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absinvestor
Senior Nomad
Posts: 725
Registered: 11-28-2009
Member Is Offline
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LL- an unsettling coincidence- your story regarding some involvement from Senator Reed. Now, after basically nothing happening for 6 months the
Pattons receive a call from the State Dept saying that a rep of the State Dept had gone to Guerrero Negro etc. A short time after the State Dept
appears to have shown some interest the truck magically appears. Any thoughts on a reward for information and/or body?
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lizard lips
Super Nomad
Posts: 1468
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: EARTH
Member Is Offline
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I have advised the family that reward may not be in the best interest of this investigation. We never did it for the Nevada guys and I really don't
think it would be wise here and now for a lot of reasons. A lot of strange things happen when a reward is offered. Maybe Im wrong but I don't think
so. Whats your take?
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absinvestor
Senior Nomad
Posts: 725
Registered: 11-28-2009
Member Is Offline
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I'll defer to your expert opinion. It was just a thought.
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latina
Nomad
Posts: 210
Registered: 3-19-2011
Location: La Paz
Member Is Offline
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Is it really a bad idea for the family to be in BC at Easter to start looking for Gary? It is painful to think that no one is searching for him,
especially when their note to you sounds like they think he could still be alive...God only knows how that would be possible after 7 months and 9
months by the time they get here.... they could at least be putting up revised flyers and meeting the rancher to see first hand where the truck was
found...and the sooner they see what is inside his truck the better...
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Hook
Elite Nomad
Posts: 9010
Registered: 3-13-2004
Location: Sonora
Member Is Offline
Mood: Inquisitive
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Many of us who have been on Baja websites for years, remember the incident with the Nevadans.
I feel like I asked you this many years ago but was the vehicle ever located? I seem to remember something about the son of a cop in the area driving
it around. Was that "Cilantro"?
Anyway, the only thing I might glean from your story is that the foot-dragging may, indeed, be from a desire to preventpeople from cancelling their
Semana Santa plans in Mexico. As I've said before, there is deliberacy in this search delay; for what reason, I dont know. But that's how it feels to
me.
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chavycha
Nomad
Posts: 373
Registered: 1-20-2014
Member Is Offline
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Regarding the camera, the timestamps will likely still be useful, whether or not he set the data/time.
The camera will timestamp the first picture as something like 1/1/2004 00:00. Subsequent pictures will be timestamped accordingly. A picture taken a
week later will be 1/8/2004 00:00.
If he took a picture at a location which is known (say, on his way down in early September), even if he didn't set the date/time, the timestamps on
subsequent pictures can be used to determine the time lapsed between photos.
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Ricardo
Nomad
Posts: 139
Registered: 12-9-2004
Location: Telkwa
Member Is Offline
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If the camera battery is still good you could take a picture today and count back as well.
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monoloco
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6667
Registered: 7-13-2009
Location: Pescadero BCS
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Ricardo
If the camera battery is still good you could take a picture today and count back as well. |
Most DSLR
cameras retain the time and date settings when the battery dies.
"The future ain't what it used to be"
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Skipjack Joe
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8084
Registered: 7-12-2004
Location: Bahia Asuncion
Member Is Offline
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Traffic on the San Jose to Canoa Road
I was wondering if the people who are familiar with that road could comment on the frequency that vehicles pass on that road.
Could Mexitron, Taco De Baja, Sunman, Woody, or anyone else comment on this.
Does a car pass by every 4 hours, eight hours, once a day, one per 2 days, 3,4,5 days?
It's my understanding that if you're going to San Jose from the hwy you would never be on this road. Similarly, if you're going to Canoa from the hwy
you would use a different route. You would only use this road going from San Jose to Canoa or backwards. Is that correct?
PS We're talking September. I'm sure it changes seasonally.
[Edited on 4-11-2014 by Skipjack Joe]
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Justbozo
Nomad
Posts: 139
Registered: 11-20-2012
Location: Lake Michigan/Bahia Concepcion
Member Is Offline
Mood: Got my little stone hut on the bay
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I am no sleuth and don’t read mystery novels.
I believe that the rancher plays a large roll in Gary’s disappearance and is unknowingly connected. He is being played for his honesty and
generosity.
The large time gap always bothered me, and with the sudden appearance of the 4 runner in undisturbed condition, it was even worse. A small item was
exposed lately. The ranchers business.
OK, here we go. Just an outline of my thoughts.
Gary never got out of the San Quintin area.
Gary left Jardines early in the morning heading on his adventure. He makes a stop for maybe breakfast, gas, OJ, ice? This is where it goes sour for
Gary. Too much talk. Too much cash. Details unknown, but Gary and the 4 runner never leave the area.
This may not have been the intended outcome of whoever he met. Maybe someone not hardened in this line. The 4 runner is under wraps. People get
nervous, lips start to move. How to get rid of a hot gringo car with posters all over town?
Connection for this is made. Ditch it in the boondocks, camping/stuck. Maybe some knowledge of general area Gary was headed, or just surf gear. This
is where the rancher comes in and the fact that he has as a business in the San Qintin general area of Baja. The contact has knowledge and connection
to the rancher, family/friends maybe 60 years difference in age. Knowing the upstanding nature of the rancher, who better to have find the 4 runner
and throw the hounds way off the track.
So, Gary is somewhere around San Quintin, the rancher has no knowledge other than what he has told and the perpetrator has a connection to the
rancher.
That’s the way I see it from here, right now.
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Mexitron
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3397
Registered: 9-21-2003
Location: Fort Worth, Texas
Member Is Offline
Mood: Happy!
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Sometimes you can drive the San Jose road and not see anyone for 3 hours, especially in the old days (hah--ten years ago). Other times you see a few
cars. Its a well enough travelled road however that someone would eventually pick you up in a day or two. The road from the highway to Canoas more
or less the same. However the connector road from Canoas south to the San Jose is likely less travelled.
Surfers are more likely November to March, and especially at Xmas. I've been out on the coastal road between Canoas and San Jose (not the more inland
route used by Gary) and not see ANYONE for days at a time.
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Justbozo
Nomad
Posts: 139
Registered: 11-20-2012
Location: Lake Michigan/Bahia Concepcion
Member Is Offline
Mood: Got my little stone hut on the bay
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It's just what I woke up from my siesta with.
Maybe in the back of a delivery truck?
I dunno.
Just another line of thought to pick apart.
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Whale-ista
Super Nomad
Posts: 2009
Registered: 2-18-2013
Location: San Diego
Member Is Offline
Mood: Sunny with chance of whales
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Wow... someone who has recently joined the Nomads forum could string these posts together, and have a "Semi-True Detective" novel woven out of the
various theories, suppositions, suspicions and speculations posted here.
I'm still hoping Gary shows up with a "stranger than true" story to share that will put all these to rest. If so, there's probably a book deal, if not
movie, waiting.
\"Probably the airplanes will bring week-enders from Los Angeles before long, and the beautiful poor bedraggled old town will bloom with a
Floridian ugliness.\" (John Steinbeck, 1940, discussing the future of La Paz, BCS, Mexico)
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