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bajaguy
Elite Nomad
Posts: 9247
Registered: 9-16-2003
Location: Carson City, NV/Ensenada - Baja Country Club
Member Is Offline
Mood: must be 5 O'clock somewhere in Baja
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Abs......Senator Reid said and did all the right things (contacted the State Department) on the federal level, but he leaned heavily on people at the
state level when we had a Governor of the same political party......and as you know, stuff flows downhill and the case landed on my desk.
| Quote: | Originally posted by absinvestor
LL- an unsettling coincidence- your story regarding some involvement from Senator Reed. Now, after basically nothing happening for 6 months the
Pattons receive a call from the State Dept saying that a rep of the State Dept had gone to Guerrero Negro etc. A short time after the State Dept
appears to have shown some interest the truck magically appears. Any thoughts on a reward for information and/or body? |
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latina
Nomad
Posts: 210
Registered: 3-19-2011
Location: La Paz
Member Is Offline
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The problem with the Punta San Jose to Punta La Canoa theory is that it was September and even the "graded" dirt roads were virtually impassable, as
was testified by a Nomad who was there at the same time Gary disappeared. Fishermen from Las Canoas had the "graded roads" into the beaches blocked
to traffic off and on all through the month of September AND Gary's 4runner was only 2wheel drive.
That theory works if something happened to Gary when he tried to go the Punta Baja route, someone kept his truck hidden nearby, and then drove the
same route and hid it...BUT there are so many other hiding places...why go that far???
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Skipjack Joe
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8084
Registered: 7-12-2004
Location: Bahia Asuncion
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What kind of "thief" leaves money in the car?
What kind of thief is that?
What kind of thief leaves a camera in the car?
What am I missing here?
Can anyone answer these simple basic questions? Those with abduction theories.
Please provide scenarios that include decisions to leave these behind. I'm just curious.
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latina
Nomad
Posts: 210
Registered: 3-19-2011
Location: La Paz
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Skipjack Joe...I agree with you...nothing about this is logical...the only logical conclusion to me is that way back in September Gary met his fate,
when he got stuck of the main trail....out of all of the "clues", only the rancher's determination about where he found the truck throws a wrench into
logic....
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lizard lips
Super Nomad
Posts: 1468
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: EARTH
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More information from the rancher just in:
- The direction the car was facing ? == NORTH (not toward ocean, toward highway)
- The # of coolers (should've been 2)? == YES, two coolers, no water, and a box of food (he would've had breakfast bars, oatmeal, cereal but I am
adding these comments)
- The heavy, red metal tool box ? ==He said honestly he does not recall seeing a red metal tool box, but he also is saying he may not have noticed
it;
- Any Pillow, blanket in the car? == Pillow and tent were in car, did notice any blanket(s)
- A tent? ==Yes
- Was there a Windshield shade in the front window? A sun protector? ==No window shade in the window when he found it;
- Were there any maps? ==He did not notice any maps, but Garys son says he saw some maps just did not look closely enough to say they were Triple A
Baja maps.
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latina
Nomad
Posts: 210
Registered: 3-19-2011
Location: La Paz
Member Is Offline
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So maybe he did make it to the beach, and then something happened to him....were the boogie board and the wetsuit in the truck??
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lizard lips
Super Nomad
Posts: 1468
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: EARTH
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We are going to have to wait on that one Latina.
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latina
Nomad
Posts: 210
Registered: 3-19-2011
Location: La Paz
Member Is Offline
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Thanks LL...I do get it, but for some reason this whole story is just eating away at me...hopefully in May when the family come down they will have
some kind of closure...
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EnsenadaDr
Banned
Posts: 5027
Registered: 9-12-2011
Location: Baja California
Member Is Offline
Mood: Move on. It is just a chapter in the past, but don't close the book- just turn the page
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A drug runner with no time to spare...his money will pay off big time with the delivery...a few bucks means nothing to him nor the camera, just dump
the vehicle ASAP | Quote: | Originally posted by Skipjack Joe
What kind of "thief" leaves money in the car?
What kind of thief is that?
What kind of thief leaves a camera in the car?
What am I missing here?
Can anyone answer these simple basic questions? Those with abduction theories.
Please provide scenarios that include decisions to leave these behind. I'm just curious. |
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lizard lips
Super Nomad
Posts: 1468
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: EARTH
Member Is Offline
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When the vehicle is searched by the family and the cameras are looked at this will give us a lot but until then we must wait.
As far as them coming down during Easter break I told them that it wouldn't be a good idea. A lot of govt. offices are either closed or employees are
on vacation. I remain home during Easter. Way to many people on the road and everything is crowded. I have an assignment in Guadalajara that just came
up and they wanted it done next week. I told them that they will have to wait until the 22nd. By then most everyone on vacation will return.
Also I have to explain that the family is not wealthy and don't have a senator in their pocket so this process will be a slow one. Grease turns the
wheel and Gary's ex-wife has been contacting everyone and keeps the pressure on. Its nice to see that an ex would do this for her former family. They
all get along however and they are also uneducated with the process in Mexico but learning fast. I know if it wasn't for this forum it would be a
worse nightmare than what it is right now so keep it up with your thoughts and questions and I, and the family, will do what we can.
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lizard lips
Super Nomad
Posts: 1468
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: EARTH
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Hook
Many of us who have been on Baja websites for years, remember the incident with the Nevadans.
I feel like I asked you this many years ago but was the vehicle ever located? I seem to remember something about the son of a cop in the area driving
it around. Was that "Cilantro"?
Anyway, the only thing I might glean from your story is that the foot-dragging may, indeed, be from a desire to preventpeople from cancelling their
Semana Santa plans in Mexico. As I've said before, there is deliberacy in this search delay; for what reason, I dont know. But that's how it feels to
me. |
No hook. Cilantro was not driving it around. I found the truck at a junk yard in San Quintin pretty much stripped.
[Edited on 4-11-2014 by lizard lips]
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Mulegena
Super Nomad
Posts: 2412
Registered: 11-7-2006
Member Is Offline
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My thoughts are focusing on this, too, and feel it deserves delving further:
On second inquiry we've now found out that the rancher, himself, did not make the call to the Pattons as he speaks no English; a family member
actually called on his behalf, probably with him directing the conversation, however.
The rancher commutes between his ranch and Maneadero. Someone else surely lives fulltime on the ranch as caretaker/manager. Perhaps it was this person
who initially encountered the car and moved it, not the rancher himself. It's very, very likely he was involved, imo. Who is this person? What part
did he play in this? What does he have to say?
| Quote: | Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
Maybe with all the digging the Rancher did, if it was indeed him that was digging, he couldn't get the car to get out of the ditch driving it so he
had to tow it... |
"Raise your words, not your voice. It's rain that grows flowers, not thunder." ~Rumi
"It's the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." ~ Aristotle
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captkw
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3850
Registered: 10-19-2010
Location: el charro b.c.s.
Member Is Offline
Mood: new dog/missing the old 1
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Question??
was the check point south of "jadines" aka S.Q. in ops during (top of the hill) sept. and has anyone shown pics at the the gas station at the "CURVE"
he,, like all of us HAVE to fill up there and the check point guys do remember things !! my two centavo's..and a big thanks to LL
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JoeJustJoe
Banned
Posts: 21045
Registered: 9-9-2010
Location: Occupied Aztlan
Member Is Offline
Mood: Mad as hell
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Wow now the 80 year old Mexican rancher is a suspect. Lots of theories and conspiracy theories theories are being floated out and and some of them
seem pretty outrageous. I think my tongue-in-cheek remark about a "Texas Chain Saw Massacre" operation and the rancher being in on it, is about in the
middle of the road in terms of outrageous theories being floated here.
The simplest and probably the most likely scenario that occurred to Gary is that he got stuck in the sand, and left on foot to find help, but got
lost, disorientated, and probably perished in the unforgiven terrain of Baja. People get lost all the time in the US in the mountains and desert and
it's almost always just an accident and not foul play. Sure Mexico has some pretty dangerous areas due to Mexicans cartels fighting over drug
territory, but we are talking about places like San Quintin and Catavinia that are in the middle of nowhere and unlikely places where Mexican cartels
operate, or bad guys hang out.
Lizard Lips as seemed pretty rational and seems to know what he is talking about, but his theory on the US news media putting negative stories about
Mexico just in time for spring and summer travel, are a first for me, and sounds pretty farfetched. I do agree that Mexico would like suppress the
negative news stories, but the big stories always get out, and really Gary's disappearance probably means very little to the rest of the world, except
for his family, and Nomad members. I think there were 22 million tourist in Mexico in 2011 and similar numbers in 2012, and I'm sure 2013 was also a
good year, but I haven't seen the number yet. So whatever happened to Gary, it's doubtful it's going to hurt Mexican tourism much, although a few
places in Mexico and Baja are already hurting because of the cartel violence, but they're also hurting because some of the places haven't done enough
to attract the tourist, but I'm getting off the subject.
There does seem to be a few odd things about the 4-Runner being found, and some of the things the rancher said, but many of those things could be
attributed to Gary's odd behavior, like leaving money, and a pair of keys locked in the car, especially since it was indicated Gary was concerned
about getting stuff stolen. There is also the fact that Gary would even attempt that drive on a two-wheel drive 4-Runner. That's just crazy!
Of course the whole thing could be staged or somebody else might have been driving the the stolen 4-Runner, and when they got stuck in the sand, they
left the truck there and didn't want to be got with any evidence, but then why leave the money? But before I could entertain the more deadly foul
play scenarios. I would want to know exactly the kind of "meds" Gary was on, because it would give a clue to possible mental or clouded mental
functioning, especially if he was mixing the meds with alcohol.
I also do not see anything wrong with Nomad members who are nearby forming an unofficial search party and just searching the possible locations Gary
could have walked to, and leave the official search party and contacting the police to Gary's family when they come down in May.
[Edited on 4-11-2014 by JoeJustJoe]
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mtgoat666
Select Nomad
Posts: 18380
Registered: 9-16-2006
Location: San Diego
Member Is Offline
Mood: Hot n spicy
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Why are the cops (apparently) not investigating? What are the cops covering up? Are cops in on the disappearance?
Why is the family delaying starting search?
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chuckie
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6082
Registered: 2-20-2012
Location: Kansas Prairies
Member Is Offline
Mood: Weary
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Read the thread
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Mulegena
Super Nomad
Posts: 2412
Registered: 11-7-2006
Member Is Offline
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Not suggesting the rancher or his ranch person/people are culpable.
Making no theories here. More interviews need to be conducted, I believe.
Suggest investigator/family seek out and discreetly interview the person(s)
living full-time on the ranch and to speak separately once again with the rancher.
"Raise your words, not your voice. It's rain that grows flowers, not thunder." ~Rumi
"It's the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." ~ Aristotle
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mtgoat666
Select Nomad
Posts: 18380
Registered: 9-16-2006
Location: San Diego
Member Is Offline
Mood: Hot n spicy
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| Quote: | Originally posted by chuckie
Read the thread |
Where in the thread are cops cleared of being suspects?
If cops are not investigating, that makes me suspect they are involved in the disappearance.
If the cops are hiding information, at a same time they are not investigating,... You connect the dots.
Murder or disappearance is so rare in Catavina, makes me wonder why the cops are not out in force, communicating daily updates to family, etc
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absinvestor
Senior Nomad
Posts: 725
Registered: 11-28-2009
Member Is Offline
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Skipjack Joe- as to your question about what thief would leave money etc in the car. My answer is a scared thief. The car was heading North away from
the beach. Could it be that Gary had a surfing accident and someone not involved in the mishap decided to steal the car and became stuck? Or could
someone have murdured Gary, stolen the car but again got stuck. If I was either one of those people and the car got I would panic and leave without
any thought of taking valuables. Although not hidden I don't believe the "coins" were out in the open. Personally I believe that something happened to
Gary away from where the truck was found but who knows?
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lizard lips
Super Nomad
Posts: 1468
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: EARTH
Member Is Offline
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I know Joe it's pretty far fetched about the bad press as I have posted but I will never forget that producer with NBC and his agenda. He wasn't there
intentionally for the Nevada guys story. He made it clear by the questions he asked to bash Mexico. Was it because of tourism? Just a thought thrown
out by me but he was peeed because I would not tell him on film that I thought Mexico was dangerous. He was a great interviewer and really didn't
speak to me again until we got to the Ministerio Publico that afternoon. The sound guy was Mexican/American and he told me privately that the producer
was an ass.
As far as what has recently been addressed regarding the Catavina PD and their lack of investigating I don't know if they have done anything or have
been vigilant and scoured the area where the 4 Runner was found. We will know by the end of the month. You must remember that these police officers, I
assume, are not well trained and have their own theory of what happened and maybe followed up. Good post Goat!
Also the Ministerio Publico Investigators that were assigned to the case in San Quintin must be contacted. The last time I met with them they told me
that there was a Gary sighting south of Guerrero Negro by a police commandant. I called this guy and he told me that it could have been him but his
description matched about every other 65 year old gringo. Grey hair, short beard, hat, etc. plus no mention of what vehicle he was driving. As we know
the mileage doesn't match a trip to GN.
The ranchers worker? If it was him then why didn't he take everything in the vehicle especially the container of coins between the seats. Will follow
up with him when travel is made to the ranch.
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