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SoCalPattonCrew
Junior Nomad
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Location: Costa Mesa, CA
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Latest UPDATE of help in these publications now coming our way: Today this article is in the El Mexicano newspaper! Next week it will be in BAJA
Times, and last week it was in ECOS, their spanish version. Let's hope this close-up photo along with information for diligent, caring people out
there will direct him to us, us to him. Please bring some hope to us, nomads, tell us who you can spread this word to and the photo. Knowing Gary
as we do, he may be limping along but it doesn't mean he's fallen. Ideas for where he could be surviving are most welcome. We know that It is much
easier to think the worst. You've all hung in there with us this far, please hang in a little longer .. with faith and your healthy energy. Thank
you, all.
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woody with a view
PITA Nomad
Posts: 15939
Registered: 11-8-2004
Location: Looking at the Coronado Islands
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Lizard, do we know if the coins were US or Mex? US coins are worthless in Mex as far as i'm aware.
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Hook
Elite Nomad
Posts: 9009
Registered: 3-13-2004
Location: Sonora
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| Quote: | Originally posted by mtgoat666
| Quote: | Originally posted by chuckie
Read the thread |
Where in the thread are cops cleared of being suspects?
If cops are not investigating, that makes me suspect they are involved in the disappearance.
If the cops are hiding information, at a same time they are not investigating,... You connect the dots.
Murder or disappearance is so rare in Catavina, makes me wonder why the cops are not out in force, communicating daily updates to family, etc
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On the subject of police complicity.........
Whatever police force is in Catavina is certainly inadequate to conduct a search this far from their main beat. And it would leave them unavailable to
continue their day-to-day operations, which has to be their first priority. Couple that with the logical conclusion that this person is very likely
dead, after all this time, and the priority in their mind becomes very low.
This investigation should be passed to authorities higher up than simply the municipal police, if it is simply a matter of manpower.
Of course it is possible that the local police are aware that there are drug operations in that area. Everyone knows that, except, apparently, Just
Joe. And they may feel that this gringo may have run afoul of them and they want no part of asking questions to persons within this organization
because they know they have to deal with them in the future. You know, as part of the uneasy "ignorance" that goes on all over Mexico between lower
cartel elements and local police. Ignorance born of payments to look the other way at the right time or born of the real fear of retribution. By now,
they may have contacted them and gotten an answer that basically says "do nothing" from them.
If Gary wandered into the wrong place at the wrong time, with respect to operations going on in the area, they may have known nothing about his
vehicle and valuables. They just wanted no witnesses, period.
I can't say how likely this scenarios are; probably the first one is more likely. But there has to be an explanation for why this isnt being pursued
faster. I can't understand why the family must be there to begin conducting a further search by authorities higher up than the locals.
[Edited on 4-11-2014 by Hook]
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woody with a view
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Location: Looking at the Coronado Islands
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Skipjack Joe
I was wondering if the people who are familiar with that road could comment on the frequency that vehicles pass on that road.
Could Mexitron, Taco De Baja, Sunman, Woody, or anyone else comment on this.
Does a car pass by every 4 hours, eight hours, once a day, one per 2 days, 3,4,5 days?
It's my understanding that if you're going to San Jose from the hwy you would never be on this road. Similarly, if you're going to Canoa from the hwy
you would use a different route. You would only use this road going from San Jose to Canoa or backwards. Is that correct?
PS We're talking September. I'm sure it changes seasonally.
[Edited on 4-11-2014 by Skipjack Joe] |
agree with Mexitron on the various roads and wait times for a vehicle. even in Sept there would be at least a car per day on either road. the road
where the truck was found might not see a car for weeks, in my opinion. like i said earlier, even trying to use it as a shortcut (IF YOU DON"T KNOW
THE AREA) is risky, especially in a 2wd. a single vehicle, maybe low on fuel and worried about the next place to refuel.... it isn't a road a normal
person would turn down to try to find a camp site so close to the beach. if he was heading away from the beach he would know where to back track on
foot......
[Edited on 4-11-2014 by woody with a view]
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EnsenadaDr
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I think a reward would definitely help. No bank account activity is not a good sign, especially in Mexico. There are many missing person cases in
the US where the Police simply lose interest in investigating. Too much time and manpower, but I have seen cases where the family and others push for
reopening the case and the police get involved again. Like Goat mentioned, the squeaky wheel gets the grease. More exposure in local press is good as
well. It's a bad situation In a harsh environment.
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absinvestor
Senior Nomad
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Registered: 11-28-2009
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LL commented that he thought that a reward was not a good idea at this time and based on his knowledge and experience I think we should follow his
lead. I'm sure if he changes his opinion he will let us know. I would still like to know if Gary's social security checks are still regularly
deposited into his bank account.
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absinvestor
Senior Nomad
Posts: 725
Registered: 11-28-2009
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BajaGuy- thanks for your comments on Reids involvement. I just thought it quite a coincidence that a few days after the Pattons received a call from
the State Dept that the truck magically appeared.
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Ateo
Elite Nomad
Posts: 5896
Registered: 7-18-2011
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and just as a reminder, a video of some of the illegal activity going on in the area:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?list=PLAcv5GC5_QHJOtXqvdGCMu_li...
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BajaGringo
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Gary was last seen at Jardines. My business partner and others there spoke with Gary at the bar in the restaurant while he was staying at the hotel.
They recall him as being extremely chatty and talked about finding some good surf breaks.
The area below Canoas has several spots with historically good (at times) breaks that attract surfers from up north. It is very possible that Gary
hung out in that region for a few months just enjoying the remote location and surf. There are a few fish camps in the area and it is easy to get food
and water/beer to live on while "hanging out" in a remote spot. We see surfers come down here to our region and do the exact same thing - some for
weeks on end.
I know of that rancher and it is highly unlikely to me that he is lying or somehow involved in any of this. He is a good, stand up guy and together
with his ranch hands have helped out many in that region who have run into problems over the years. This sounds to be no different.
Thieves would definitely have stripped the truck of any valuable belongings including the battery (which is a very valuable commodity in that region)
and just left it or set it afire at most. The whole restaging the vehicle at a different location scanario, leaving everything onboard just does not
happen down here.
The perceived lack of police action is completely understandable in that there is no full-time police force in the area. In fact there isn't a police
force at all - it's just one guy who is part time and he covers an area extending to hundreds of square miles. He has no on-staff search and rescue
team, investigators, photographer, forensics team, or anything like that. He doesn't even have a phone line for God's sake.
I have spent several days in that area and driven on the large network of small, unmarked roads leading in umpteen different directions. It is quite
easy to get lost there - even with a map onboard. Based on the info LL has given, I think the most likely scenarios are two possibilities:
1) after getting stuck, Gary set out to look for help and got lost, eventually falling victim to the elements.
2) after getting stuck, Gary set out to look for help and was given a ride by someone who had other than humanitarian intentions.
If he did fall victim of a crime, common sense tells me that it happened away from the vehicle. Thieves down here in such remote areas never leave any
loot behind. That is just the reality of the region...
[Edited on 4-11-2014 by BajaGringo]
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EnsenadaDr
Banned
Posts: 5027
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Location: Baja California
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Mood: Move on. It is just a chapter in the past, but don't close the book- just turn the page
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Then Ron, you still haven't answered the question. If he got stuck, then why was the car not seen on the Rancher's property for over 5 months? That
is, if you totally believe the Rancher as you say you do. I tend to agree with you about the Rancher. If he was involved he certainly wouldn't draw
attention to himself and call the police. He would get rid of the car or completely dismantle it. Only a fool would call the police and incriminate
themselves. | Quote: | Originally posted by BajaGringo
Gary was last seen at Jardines. My business partner and others there spoke with Gary at the bar in the restaurant while he was staying at the hotel.
They recall him as being extremely chatty and talked about finding some good surf breaks.
The area below Canoas has several spots with historically good (at times) breaks that attract surfers from up north. It is very possible that Gary
hung out in that region for a few months just enjoying the remote location and surf. There are a few fish camps in the area and it is easy to get food
and water/beer to live on while "hanging out" in a remote spot. We see surfers come down here to our region and do the exact same thing - some for
weeks on end.
I know of that rancher and it is highly unlikely to me that he is lying or somehow involved in any of this. He is a good, stand up guy and together
with his ranch hands have helped out many in that region who have run into problems over the years. This sounds to be no different.
Thieves would definitely have stripped the truck of any valuable belongings including the battery (which is a very valuable commodity in that region)
and just left it or set it afire at most. The whole restaging the vehicle at a different location scanario, leaving everything onboard just does not
happen down here.
The perceived lack of police action is completely understandable in that there is no full-time police force in the area. In fact there isn't a police
force at all - it's just one guy who is part time and he covers an area extending to hundreds of square miles. He has no on-staff search and rescue
team, investigators, photographer, forensics team, or anything like that. He doesn't even have a phone line for God's sake.
I have spent several days in that area and driven on the large network of small, unmarked roads leading in umpteen different directions. It is quite
easy to get lost there - even with a map onboard. Based on the info LL has given, I think the most likely scenarios are two possibilities:
1) after getting stuck, Gary set out to look for help and got lost, eventually falling victim to the elements.
2) after getting stuck, Gary set out to look for help and was given a ride by someone who had other than humanitarian intentions.
If he did fall victim of a crime, common sense tells me that it happened away from the vehicle. Thieves down here in such remote areas never leave any
loot behind. That is just the reality of the region...
[Edited on 4-11-2014 by BajaGringo] |
[Edited on 4-11-2014 by EnsenadaDr]
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Ateo
Elite Nomad
Posts: 5896
Registered: 7-18-2011
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I believe Ron answered the Dr.'s question when he said,
"It is very possible that Gary hung out in that region for a few months just enjoying the remote location and surf. There are a few fish camps in the
area and it is easy to get food and water/beer to live on while "hanging out" in a remote spot".
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BajaGringo
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3922
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Location: La Chorera
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Mood: Let's have a BBQ!
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| Quote: | Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
Then Ron, you still haven't answered the question. If he got stuck, then why was the car not seen on the Rancher's property for over 5 months?
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Because it wasn't there - he was probably surfing down the entire length of seven sisters over that time. The rancher said the truck wasn't there in
December and I believe him. He knows that area like the back of his hand...
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Ateo
Elite Nomad
Posts: 5896
Registered: 7-18-2011
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The only issue with the above post is there were many people in the 7 sisters area on the lookout for Gary in that time period, including myself.
If Gary was a chatter, I would've expected a few sightings in that period, but there were none that I'm aware of.
Having said this, out of the hundreds of people/surfers that visit the area in the Winter, how many were aware of Gary's disappearance? Not many, so
just providing the other side of my above argument.
[Edited on 4-11-2014 by Ateo]
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EnsenadaDr
Banned
Posts: 5027
Registered: 9-12-2011
Location: Baja California
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Mood: Move on. It is just a chapter in the past, but don't close the book- just turn the page
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He had no activity on his bank account Ron, and you know and I know people in the area aren't going to let you live off of them. Why would he
unnecessarily worry his family and not contact them? He said he would be back in 3 days. He couldn't have called them to let them know he was ok? I
don't believe Gary was that kind of a person. I agree with you Ron about the Rancher knowing that area. I have no doubt in my mind about that.
| Quote: | Originally posted by BajaGringo
| Quote: | Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
Then Ron, you still haven't answered the question. If he got stuck, then why was the car not seen on the Rancher's property for over 5 months?
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Because it wasn't there - he was probably surfing down the entire length of seven sisters over that time. The rancher said the truck wasn't there in
December and I believe him. He knows that area like the back of his hand... |
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durrelllrobert
Elite Nomad
Posts: 7393
Registered: 11-22-2007
Location: Punta Banda BC
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Mood: thriving in Baja
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| Quote: | Originally posted by BajaGringo
Gary was last seen at Jardines. My business partner and others there spoke with Gary at the bar in the restaurant while he was staying at the hotel.
They recall him as being extremely chatty and talked about finding some good surf breaks.
The area below Canoas has several spots with historically good (at times) breaks that attract surfers from up north. It is very possible that Gary
hung out in that region for a few months just enjoying the remote location and surf. There are a few fish camps in the area and it is easy to get food
and water/beer to live on while "hanging out" in a remote spot. We see surfers come down here to our region and do the exact same thing - some for
weeks on end.
I know of that rancher and it is highly unlikely to me that he is lying or somehow involved in any of this. He is a good, stand up guy and together
with his ranch hands have helped out many in that region who have run into problems over the years. This sounds to be no different.
Thieves would definitely have stripped the truck of any valuable belongings including the battery (which is a very valuable commodity in that region)
and just left it or set it afire at most. The whole restaging the vehicle at a different location scanario, leaving everything onboard just does not
happen down here.
The perceived lack of police action is completely understandable in that there is no full-time police force in the area. In fact there isn't a police
force at all - it's just one guy who is part time and he covers an area extending to hundreds of square miles. He has no on-staff search and rescue
team, investigators, photographer, forensics team, or anything like that. He doesn't even have a phone line for God's sake.
I have spent several days in that area and driven on the large network of small, unmarked roads leading in umpteen different directions. It is quite
easy to get lost there - even with a map onboard. Based on the info LL has given, I think the most likely scenarios are two possibilities:
1) after getting stuck, Gary set out to look for help and got lost, eventually falling victim to the elements.
2) after getting stuck, Gary set out to look for help and was given a ride by someone who had other than humanitarian intentions.
If he did fall victim of a crime, common sense tells me that it happened away from the vehicle. Thieves down here in such remote areas never leave any
loot behind. That is just the reality of the region...
[Edited on 4-11-2014 by BajaGringo] |
Nice new avatar by the way.
Bob Durrell
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BajaGringo
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Ateo
The only issue with the above post is there were many people in the 7 sisters area on the lookout for Gary in that time period, including myself.
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That region is quite large and there are thousands of spots where you could set up camp and not easily be seen. You mention that you yourself spent
time there, were aware of Gary's disappearance and yet did you at any time then see his truck? We know from the lack of mileage that it was most
likely there in the area. I tend to prefer the simple explanations and the simple answer is that he was there.
It was mentioned before that he had cash with him Janene. Folks in the remote fish camps don't charge restaurant prices for their catch. He might have
even caught his own fish - did he have a fishing pole and tackle with him?
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Skipjack Joe
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8084
Registered: 7-12-2004
Location: Bahia Asuncion
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I agree that Baja Gringo's first scenario is most likely true. I'm not sure you could bring enough provisions to Canoa for a 4 month stay in a 4
Runner but I don't know the area. Perhaps there is a small tienda or supplies and water to be bought.
Also, it's unlikely that Gary got lost when seeking help. He was 2km from a road which he had driven on. So it was easy to get to the road and it
makes no sense to leave it until a 2nd more traveled road is reached.
I'm really surprised that now, that the location of the vehicle is known, nobody is looking for Gary. I strongly suspect that a search is in progress
and we simply have not been informed.
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Taco de Baja
Super Nomad
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Location: Behind the Orange Curtain, CA
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Mood: Dreamin' of Baja
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I agree with Woody and Mexitron that main road to Faro San Jose will have several vehicles per day at all hours of the day and night. I’ve been camped
out there both right on the main road (vehicle problems) and just off it, but hidden from view and had vehicles drive by in the dead middle of the
night. We often pass at least one or two vehicles going the opposite direction when going to or from the coast in the few hours it take to make the
trip. One could extrapolate that as many as 10 or or more vehicles pass on a daily basis. Ranchers, fisherman, surfers, and yes probably even drug
runners.
In the early 80s it got way less traffic. I remember one time we came across a poor guy who had gotten 3 flats coming back from buying lots of
tomatoes in San Quintin for his wife to can. He had been able to patch all the tires, but had no air pump. Boy was he glad to see us as he had been
there for 3 days! Being the patron of the fish camp, we got lots of free longosta over the week.
However, in this day and age, if Gary had troubles he should have been able to get to the main road and within a couple hours someone would have come
along.
Truth generally lies in the coordination of antagonistic opinions
-Herbert Spencer
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BajaGringo
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There are some folks up at Puerto Catarina, a few km north of Canoas that bring in supplies on a regular basis and travel to the more remote camps,
taking basic provisions and water on a weekly basis...
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BajaGringo
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3922
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Location: La Chorera
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Mood: Let's have a BBQ!
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| Quote: | Originally posted by durrelllrobert
Nice new avatar by the way. |
What can I say? The years have not been kind...
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