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Ateo
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| Quote: | Originally posted by BajaGringo
| Quote: | Originally posted by Ateo
The only issue with the above post is there were many people in the 7 sisters area on the lookout for Gary in that time period, including myself.
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That region is quite large and there are thousands of spots where you could set up camp and not easily be seen. You mention that you yourself spent
time there, were aware of Gary's disappearance and yet did you at any time then see his truck? We know from the lack of mileage that it was most
likely there in the area. I tend to prefer the simple explanations and the simple answer is that he was there.
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Yep, I didn't see any sign of Gary (December) at about 4 different surf spots, or the roads leading in and out to those spots. You are correct, there
are thousands of spots to set up camp and not be seen. But, not many people choose to camp 10 miles inland, say in an arroyo (where they wouldn't be
seen), for instance, especially if they're surfing.
Most tend to flock to the usual spots, with a great ocean view, camping on a cliff, with fishing, overlooking the ocean. To be in that area and out
of sight for like 5 months would be very hard to do. That's a ton of H20 and supplies to haul in.
I also agree that the lack of mileage would put him in the area, and not BOLA for instance. I believe he was there. Where - we don't know!
The place is pretty desolate for sure. The last time I went into Canoas we didn't see any other surfers the entire 4 day trip. We saw some fish
camps and fishermen, like the ones in the video link I posted. I believe Gary was out there, I just don't think he could've been out there for 5-6
months (estimate from when he left to the time his 4 runner was found) and not have made some friends, been spotted by some Nomads, some Baja 1000
teams, or the random military hummers.
All just speculation on my part. =)
[Edited on 4-11-2014 by Ateo]
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absinvestor
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JustBozo-You may be correct- it has been indicated that Gary was an active picture taker. He would have had lots of photo opportunities while at the
beach or..........Can't wait to see what is on that second camera.
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Ateo
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| Quote: | Originally posted by absinvestor
To BajaGringo and Ateo and others who somehow believe that Gary might have been hanging out, surfing or whatever (for several months) I believe you
are on the wrong track. |
I ABSOLUTLEY don't think Gary was out there hanging out for several months. No way!!!! Did I say that previously?
[Edited on 4-11-2014 by Ateo]
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DENNIS
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| Quote: | Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
Now this isn't CSI or New York Dennis. I loved Ron's description of the Catavina police. A sort of Mexican Andy Griffith in Baja instead of
Mayberry. He is judge, investigator, police officer all rolled into one. No manpower, no phone even. I doubt the rancher is afraid of him. Being
in such a small and sparsely populated area, he probably is even the best of friends with him going way back. |
If there was evidence, or even an inclination of foul play, the country bumpkin cop would be down the avenue immediately and the state police would
take over. Mr. Ranchero doesn't want anything to do with that. They would not be his carnales.
"YOU CAN'T LITTER ALUMINUM"
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EnsenadaDr
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Wanna make a bet Dennis that Mr. Ranchero and the country policia are fast friends? Sort of like you and the head of the La Joya Fire
Department? | Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
| Quote: | Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
Now this isn't CSI or New York Dennis. I loved Ron's description of the Catavina police. A sort of Mexican Andy Griffith in Baja instead of
Mayberry. He is judge, investigator, police officer all rolled into one. No manpower, no phone even. I doubt the rancher is afraid of him. Being
in such a small and sparsely populated area, he probably is even the best of friends with him going way back. |
If there was evidence, or even an inclination of foul play, the country bumpkin cop would be down the avenue immediately and the state police would
take over. Mr. Ranchero doesn't want anything to do with that. They would not be his carnales. |
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LancairDriver
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| Quote: | Originally posted by absinvestor
JustBozo-You may be correct- it has been indicated that Gary was an active picture taker. He would have had lots of photo opportunities while at the
beach or..........Can't wait to see what is on that second camera. |
If I were a betting man, my money would be on the camera memory being blank or missing, changing the direction of most of the thread speculation.
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Skipjack Joe
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The theory of Gary spending several months at Canoa was brought up as a way of explaining the vehicle suddenly appearing at it's current location 4+
months after Gary left - showing up without new miles.
It sounds plausible except that now Ateo is stating he couldn't have been there for that long without being seen. So either he wasn't seen in the San
Jose / Canoa area or the rancher didn't see the truck. Are there any other plausible theories - theories that don't involve abduction or scheming
police and ranchers?
Hopefully the camera will provide some/all the answers.
What's taking so long in getting these images?
Who has ownership of the camera now?
Who has looked at them so far?
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JoeJustJoe
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Hook
| Quote: | Originally posted by mtgoat666
| Quote: | Originally posted by chuckie
Read the thread |
Where in the thread are cops cleared of being suspects?
If cops are not investigating, that makes me suspect they are involved in the disappearance.
If the cops are hiding information, at a same time they are not investigating,... You connect the dots.
Murder or disappearance is so rare in Catavina, makes me wonder why the cops are not out in force, communicating daily updates to family, etc
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On the subject of police complicity.........
Whatever police force is in Catavina is certainly inadequate to conduct a search this far from their main beat. And it would leave them unavailable to
continue their day-to-day operations, which has to be their first priority. Couple that with the logical conclusion that this person is very likely
dead, after all this time, and the priority in their mind becomes very low.
This investigation should be passed to authorities higher up than simply the municipal police, if it is simply a matter of manpower.
Of course it is possible that the local police are aware that there are drug operations in that area. Everyone knows that, except, apparently, Just
Joe. And they may feel that this gringo may have run afoul of them and they want no part of asking questions to persons within this organization
because they know they have to deal with them in the future. You know, as part of the uneasy "ignorance" that goes on all over Mexico between lower
cartel elements and local police. Ignorance born of payments to look the other way at the right time or born of the real fear of retribution. By now,
they may have contacted them and gotten an answer that basically says "do nothing" from them.
If Gary wandered into the wrong place at the wrong time, with respect to operations going on in the area, they may have known nothing about his
vehicle and valuables. They just wanted no witnesses, period.
I can't say how likely this scenarios are; probably the first one is more likely. But there has to be an explanation for why this isnt being pursued
faster. I can't understand why the family must be there to begin conducting a further search by authorities higher up than the locals.
[Edited on 4-11-2014 by Hook] |
Hook I would like to be enlightened about the Mexican cartel activity in Catavina which looks to be in the middle of nowhere in the Baja Hot Desert,
although I understand they have a nice motel , cave paintings, and rock formations. I understand there is Mexican cartel activity in many states and
towns in Mexico, and in certain areas of Baja, like Tijuana and Rosarito where the US State Department says to exercise caution especially when
traveling at night, and I'm really familiar with places in Tijuana where drugs sales are sometimes openly sold and then we have places like San
Lucas and La Paz where there is No advisory is in effect, and I'm pretty sure Catavina there would be no advisory in Catavina, and I can't even find
past news articles about Mexican cartel drug activity in Catavina. Now in San Quintin there are a few stories about cartel activity and a major farm
operation a few years back.
But according to numerous sources about 80 % to 90% of the homicides in Mexico involve Mexican cartel activity or involve drugs in some way. I don't
have the numbers in front of me, but gringo or American tourist getting killed in Mexico is really small and many of those that are killed die in
things such as car accidents, and sadly the few Americans citizens that are killed, are also sometimes tied in to selling or using drugs in Mexico.
So if Gary happened to stumble upon a cartel operation. Would it be such a big deal in a town with a part time cop? Why not pay off the cops? If
anything I would think Gary might have asked a drug runner for a Marijuana joint? Are you going to tell me that a 64 year old man who still surfs, is
on meds, and enjoys alcohol doesn't like the occasionally "mota" therapeutic relaxer?
If you're going to create a scenario where Gary was abducted or killed by Mexican cartel members because he may have stumbled on some clandestine drug
operation, or perhaps he refused to be a mule for the cartel. I would think in this case the more likely scenario based on past homicide stories in
the newspapers would be that Gary himself was up to his eyeballs with the Mexicans cartels, because really that would make more sense, however I don't
believe this either, and I believe Gary has a clean record in the USA, but don't ask me how I might know this.
I'm just amazed at all the finger pointing, when cases of missing persons go on all the time, and the places where people go missing in isolated
places. It's usually an accident caused in part by the victims lack of experience, not being property prepared, and sometimes just dumb luck.
[Edited on 4-11-2014 by JoeJustJoe]
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BajaNomad
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All addressed previously. Photos exist. We'll know more details when the family can get back down there in May.
| Quote: | Originally posted by lizard lips
The camera was inspected Gary's son when they initially saw the SUV at the Catavina Police impound yard and his son turned the camera on and saw the
photo. The photo was a picture of a little memorial that was placed on the highway where apparently an accident occurred and the family of the victim
constructed it. You all have seen plenty of these. My thoughts are maybe Gary inserted this chip after he used up another one. Who knows and we won't
know until the camera is returned and all of the photos are viewed.
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When I was young, I admired clever people. Now that I am old, I admire kind people.
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We know we must go back if we live, and we don`t know why.
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Pompano
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So many fine people all interested in one thing...finding the missing Gary. Good contributions, all! Let's pray for a solution soon.
Different minds make for some great mystery solving...and reading.
I do what the voices in my tackle box tell me.
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BajaNomad
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| Quote: | Originally posted by lizard lips
The cameras are still with the police and will be returned when the family goes down the first part of May. |
When I was young, I admired clever people. Now that I am old, I admire kind people.
– Rabbi Abraham Joshua Heschel
We know we must go back if we live, and we don`t know why.
– John Steinbeck, Log from the Sea of Cortez
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BajaNomad
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| Quote: | Originally posted by lizard lips
I don't why the police even let the boys see the camera let alone view what they did... The Tijuana American Embassy has been in touch with the family
and they contacted the family indicating that the vehicle has been released so they can pick it up anytime... Just a waiting game right now.
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When I was young, I admired clever people. Now that I am old, I admire kind people.
– Rabbi Abraham Joshua Heschel
We know we must go back if we live, and we don`t know why.
– John Steinbeck, Log from the Sea of Cortez
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BajaNomad
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| Quote: | Originally posted by lizard lips
For all of you here posting and asking really great questions, I and the Pattons Thank You Mucho!
I must ask though if you are going to ask a question and have not read all of the posts, and there are about three hours of reading, to please start
from the beginning and educate yourself with everything that has been said. I know it's a lot but I will be here answering all day long regarding
questions that either have already been asked or were confirmed earlier.
I'm not attempting be a jerk but I'm getting really tired of going through everything three times. I hope you can appreciate what I am asking.
Thanks Guys!
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When I was young, I admired clever people. Now that I am old, I admire kind people.
– Rabbi Abraham Joshua Heschel
We know we must go back if we live, and we don`t know why.
– John Steinbeck, Log from the Sea of Cortez
https://www.regionalinternet.com
Affordable Domain Name Registration/Management & cPanel Web Hosting - since 1999 |
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danaeb
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| Quote: | Originally posted by LancairDriver
| Quote: | Originally posted by absinvestor
JustBozo-You may be correct- it has been indicated that Gary was an active picture taker. He would have had lots of photo opportunities while at the
beach or..........Can't wait to see what is on that second camera. |
If I were a betting man, my money would be on the camera memory being blank or missing, changing the direction of most of the thread speculation.
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I can't see our suspects (whoever they are) taking the time to remove the memory cards but leaving everything else intact.
[Edited on 4-11-2014 by danaeb]
Experience enables you to recognize a mistake every time you repeat it.
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BajaNomad
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| Quote: | Originally posted by lizard lips
When the vehicle is searched by the family and the cameras are looked at this will give us a lot but until then we must wait.
As far as them coming down during Easter break I told them that it wouldn't be a good idea. A lot of govt. offices are either closed or employees are
on vacation. I remain home during Easter. Way to many people on the road and everything is crowded. I have an assignment in Guadalajara that just came
up and they wanted it done next week. I told them that they will have to wait until the 22nd. By then most everyone on vacation will return.
Also I have to explain that the family is not wealthy and don't have a senator in their pocket so this process will be a slow one. Grease turns the
wheel and Gary's ex-wife has been contacting everyone and keeps the pressure on. Its nice to see that an ex would do this for her former family.
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When I was young, I admired clever people. Now that I am old, I admire kind people.
– Rabbi Abraham Joshua Heschel
We know we must go back if we live, and we don`t know why.
– John Steinbeck, Log from the Sea of Cortez
https://www.regionalinternet.com
Affordable Domain Name Registration/Management & cPanel Web Hosting - since 1999 |
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BajaNomad
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| Quote: | Originally posted by BajaGringo
Gary was last seen at Jardines. My business partner and others there spoke with Gary at the bar in the restaurant while he was staying at the hotel.
They recall him as being extremely chatty and talked about finding some good surf breaks.
...I know of that rancher and it is highly unlikely to me that he is lying or somehow involved in any of this. He is a good, stand up guy and together
with his ranch hands have helped out many in that region who have run into problems over the years. This sounds to be no different.
...The perceived lack of police action is completely understandable in that there is no full-time police force in the area. In fact there isn't a
police force at all - it's just one guy who is part time and he covers an area extending to hundreds of square miles. He has no on-staff search and
rescue team, investigators, photographer, forensics team, or anything like that. He doesn't even have a phone line for God's sake.
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When I was young, I admired clever people. Now that I am old, I admire kind people.
– Rabbi Abraham Joshua Heschel
We know we must go back if we live, and we don`t know why.
– John Steinbeck, Log from the Sea of Cortez
https://www.regionalinternet.com
Affordable Domain Name Registration/Management & cPanel Web Hosting - since 1999 |
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BajaNomad
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| Quote: | Originally posted by lizard lips
More information from the rancher just in:
- The direction the car was facing ? == NORTH (not toward ocean, toward highway)
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I'm uncertain how relevant this might actually be - because of the vehicle having been found in an arroyo off the through road. The vehicle was
likely either facing in, or facing out of, the arroyo - which would not indicate whether he was heading into or out of Canoas.
Also, I'm not seeing any indication by anyone of the family's question (twice stated):
If Gary is still alive, where do you think he might be?
Thoughts?
Thanks.
When I was young, I admired clever people. Now that I am old, I admire kind people.
– Rabbi Abraham Joshua Heschel
We know we must go back if we live, and we don`t know why.
– John Steinbeck, Log from the Sea of Cortez
https://www.regionalinternet.com
Affordable Domain Name Registration/Management & cPanel Web Hosting - since 1999 |
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BajaNomad
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| Quote: | Originally posted by SoCalPattonCrew
Ideas for where he could be surviving are most welcome.
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When I was young, I admired clever people. Now that I am old, I admire kind people.
– Rabbi Abraham Joshua Heschel
We know we must go back if we live, and we don`t know why.
– John Steinbeck, Log from the Sea of Cortez
https://www.regionalinternet.com
Affordable Domain Name Registration/Management & cPanel Web Hosting - since 1999 |
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Ateo
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| Quote: | Originally posted by BajaNomad
| Quote: | Originally posted by SoCalPattonCrew
Ideas for where he could be surviving are most welcome.
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He could be surviving anywhere, but probably not in heavily flyered areas. He could be in Guatemala for all we know, or Mainland Mex. He could be
living in Ensenada somewhere. La Paz. Cabo. Large areas where you could hide out/not be noticed. The possibilities are infinite. He could be
anywhere. Let's hope he is.
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Skipjack Joe
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Ideas about where he may be if still alive? That's a hard one. Ideas:
1) He was picked up on one of those roads by a rancher and is being nursed back to health.
2) He is being held hostage and is intended to be used to get ransom.
If not already done then the surrounding ranches should all be visited and it's people interviewed. Now that the vehicle has been found the search
should concentrate on this small area. I guess all of this is pretty obvious.
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