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ELINVESTIG8R
Select Nomad
Posts: 15882
Registered: 11-20-2007
Location: Southern California
Member Is Offline
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Good Zinger Larry!
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toneart
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4901
Registered: 7-23-2006
Member Is Offline
Mood: Skeptical
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| Quote: | Originally posted by 24baja
blah blah blah blah blah.....thought I'd run up a post number, this is insane reading and it will never end, i am so glad i am not living this!
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Ooops! Your post here reveals that you have read the whole insane string. And your "blah blah blah blah" is perhaps the best and most relevant
contribution anyone has thus far made. Conclusion: Not only are you living it; This is your life! 
And, since "it will never end", you are a Zombie just like the rest of us, condemned to an eternity of insane, Nomadic absorption.
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Bajahowodd
Elite Nomad
Posts: 9274
Registered: 12-15-2008
Location: Disneyland Adjacent and anywhere in Baja
Member Is Offline
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Don't want to get redundant here, but, geez, if Munoz was such a wealthy, successful businessman, who apparently after all this time, has a slam dunk
on this issue, why in the name of all that is righteous is he wasting so much time on this forum? Methinks someone ought to pull aside the curtain.
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24baja
Senior Nomad
Posts: 951
Registered: 2-3-2009
Location: Grants Pass Oregon/Bahia de Los Angeles
Member Is Offline
Mood: Wishing we were in BOLA
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No not living it, just reading and thanking my stars that I have a very quiet life without threats and violence.
| Quote: | Originally posted by toneart
| Quote: | Originally posted by 24baja
blah blah blah blah blah.....thought I'd run up a post number, this is insane reading and it will never end, i am so glad i am not living this!
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Ooops! Your post here reveals that you have read the whole insane string. And your "blah blah blah blah" is perhaps the best and most relevant
contribution anyone has thus far made. Conclusion: Not only are you living it; This is your life!
And, since "it will never end", you are a Zombie just like the rest of us, condemned to an eternity of insane, Nomadic absorption.
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ramuma53
Banned
Posts: 793
Registered: 2-27-2003
Location: Mulege B.C.S. Mexico
Member Is Offline
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BajaHowodd
Why do you have such a low opinion on all bajanomads?; why do you think people here are not important?
Do you think that only poor guys read and write in Bajanomad??????
I sincerely do not think so; here you find a Baja English speaking population and visitors fair sample.
Do you find any English speaking newspaper? Well only the Gringo Gazette, but it has such a low distribution that it is almost irrelevant while
Bajanomad forums reach almost everyone.
Do you think only failures in life live and visit Baja? no for a long way, I have several American friends who are wealthy or better said very
wealthy, in fact only wealthy people can afford to live permanently in Baja so here you should find a lot of business wealthy people, only they do not
say they are, nor am I saying I am, but some of you keep bringing it up; do you feel inferior in some ways?.
Yes I have my properties but I assure you a lot of people here have properties so I consider myself just another Bajanomad.
Also for the ones who feel bad about us, sorry but you are in the wrong place, the church channel is someplace else, you are predicating in a very
wrong place.
Remember, never feel sorry for the winner, but you when you lack arguments, just start to predicate; nice people you must be but god will not help you
on this one and much less when you promote a sea turtle killer.
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Howard
Super Nomad
Posts: 2353
Registered: 11-13-2007
Location: Loreto/Manhattan Beach/Kona
Member Is Offline
Mood: I'd rather regret the things I've done than regret the things I haven't done.
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In my opinion, I think some of these posters need to get on with their life. If this is all they have to do, spew poison and negativity, they lead a
very shallow life.
This thread has see-sawed back and forth from serious, to funny, back to serious and now very, very pathetic. ENOUGH ALREADY!
Have you ever met someone that just tries way to hard? Is that person so pathetic that he has nothing else in life to do other than keep playing the
same music over and over?
I do not have a dog in this fight. I will go to sleep tonight and hope that I made a friend today and not an enemy. Can some of you posters say the
same?
Some of you, get a life, make a difference and move on to positive things, not negative.
Peace out,
Bubba
We don't stop playing because we grow old;
we grow old because we stop playing
George Bernard Shaw
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wessongroup
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 21152
Registered: 8-9-2009
Location: Mission Viejo
Member Is Offline
Mood: Suicide Hot line ... please hold
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Skipjack Joe
Mr Wessongroup,
This thread is 79 pages long and contains over 1500 posts. It wanders all over the place. I am not going to read all those posts now to look for
exceptions to my statements. The post you found wasn't even made by either of the 2 parties.
The gist of the thread is as follows as I see it. Mr Munoz and M&O had at one time land disputes over some property rights which Mr Munoz won in
court and is now the undisputed owner of it. In all honesty I don't remember any posts by M&O disputing this at any time.
The thread really starts with Mr Munoze's accusations of narco trafficking and turtle poaching (hence the title of the thread). Virtually every post
he has made over the last year keep hammering on this subject. Am I to post his quotes here as you did?
Mr Munoz claims that he now needs to defend himself. From what? He has been the accuser in the entire process. The driving force in this pursuit of
justice. And yet his credibility in the matter are some court documents dealing with his real estate dealings. What nonsense!!!
Listen, if Mr Munoz is so apalled with the destruction of turtles he would be active in their conservation by now. He could organize a watch group of
turtle poaching in baja. He could contribute monetarily to such organizations that already exist. He could get involved in turtle rearing projects to
negate the effects of poachers. But no. Mr Munoz is only interested in the single alleged poacher living next door. Now tell me, how believable is the
word of such a man?
But there is more...
As the thread evolves Mr Munoz starts to call Investigator8 as the only reasonable mind here. It also just happens that this man is the only one that
agrees with him.
Jesse ,who doesn't buy Mr Munoz's argument, is now being referred to as NarcoHelper or some such thing.
I don't know about you, Wessongroup, but the man doesn't inspire trust in me. At best I see him as cagey. |
As stated before.. I'm an old guy with not much to do .... and spend a lot of time in bed, due to being handicapped ... so.. to help you out, as it
appears, that you wish to base your posts on "gist" "evolution" and your take on what was posted .. I went back and copied every post (which is still
up under the name of ramuma53)
Please note that the date and time of posted, is in chronological ordered from the "board" starting with the first post... there are number of
pages.... but, it does show what was said, as compared to what is alleged to have been said. And it will state again, that it was not Mr. Munoz to
first make allegations broaching alleged "involvement" .. in this thread about cooking of turtle meat illegally
I stopped copying at page 70 as that is where I made a request for a report be supplied with supporting documentation .. it is the first post on page
70 if you wish to again see what I had hoped to "see" which would allow one to arrive at a fact based conclusion.
posted on 4-14-2009 at 03:34 PM ramuma53
My friends, it is clear that Olivia and Mark were selling and cooking for sale Turtle, that at this time is a protected specie in extintion danger,
the fact that it is good or bad to eat is not on debate or the fact, it also looks like the fact that they killed the turtles and cooked them is not
argued by Mark, Olivia's husband; the fact is that at this time, it is a Federal ofense to do that and she was caught in the act, a fact that not even
they denie; who blew the wistle is of no importance because if I knew I would have done it myself, but the same Conapesca authorities busted several
places that day, looks like it was an area action, we know that they searched the Hotel Buenaventura too, but found nothing illegal, but in the
Restaurant El Zargazo owned by Olivia and Mark, they found the big pot of stew cooking, full of people waiting for it and the heads of the poor
turtles in the trash can; also she was trying to go out of it, by saying that she is a MAFIA member or a Mafia Member relative; are those people who
some people argue are good guys, then my notion of a good guy is out of place; Is Mexico a lawfull place or not, are we going to protect the
endangered species or not, are we against the Mafia or not.
posted on 4-14-2009 at 04:50 PM ramuma53
As you said, it may have been a tradition, but only a culinary one; also the Aztecas had a tradition to kill people and that doesen't mean you can do
it now; the real thing is that the turtles were put under protection for a reason, people were eating them to extintion and now it is a federal felony
worst than killing a human, at least if you kill a human, you can argue that you were deffending yourself, but that is hard to argue against a Turtle;
also I dare you to kill a Gray wale and then argue it is an Skimo Tradition, lets see if you manage to stay out of jail in any part of America.
On your line of tought, then why forbid cocaine consumption, that won't be going away soon either, or for that matter of fact any illegal drug
consumption or even Discrimination against blacks or Mexicans, after all it was a Kukus Klan tradition or not.
The fact my friend, regardless of if it was a good food, it was a tradition or anything, is that it is Illegal all over the world now, for a very good
reason, they are in extintion danger and as a consequence it is illegal to even look at them in a bad way; traditions change and have to be forgoten
all the time and this is one we all should enforce, if we want our grandchildren to see a live turtle swiming in the sea, or are you palnning on
telling yours that there are no more turtles because we were unable to change a culinary tradition.
posted on 4-14-2009 at 11:50 PM ramuma53
Well we are in Internet I think, a Real Estate war exist between people who actually buy land and hold it for proffit; here we have Olivia Higuera
Aguilar claiming that Munoz papers are false and nobody bothered to ask her por proff; actually she made a formal complain to the Federal Police, who
investigated the matter and who found out that the title was real and legal and that Olivia has no title or right or reason and the case was droped by
the Federal authorities and anyone who want proff, there is no better place than the Public Registry with cadastral number 3-03-157 and Public
regsitry number 340 book 178 in Santa Rosalia, you will find all the legal history incluiding the Federal investigation that finally recognized that
the title was legal; even the Predial tax is paid on that property since 1971 to 2008 on Munoz name with no debt.
Now try to find anything there on Olivia's name, nothing, absolutely nothing, she only has a private contract with Ejido La Purisima afecting a piece
of land on the Kilometer 94 to 95, but San Buenaventura is on Kilometer 93; she simply is on the wrong place and that is why the Ejido La Purisima
droped the lawsuit against Munoz, they are no longer fighting him; now, do you want and American's independent opinion, just ask Mr. Thad Braxton who
live in Buenaventura beach like me at thadbrax@yahoo.com , he is one of the people who Olivia claim Munoz took the house from him, but he is still
there and not fighting Munoz at all but is being sued by Olivia who want to take his house from him through the Agrarian Tribunal at this very minute.
Here we have a person (Olivia) who acuse exactly of what she is doing, who don't have a single paper sustaining her property rights, acusing a person
who have everything legal and who was catched in the act by federal police of selling as food a protected specie.
That is why I claim that there is no balance of eveidence between themat all, all the evidence is in Munoz favor and absolutely no evidence on Olivias
favor and don't get me wrong, I will end up paying rent to one or the other, only I already saw all the legal evidence by myself and thorugh my
attorney, simply Olivia has no legal case, only a newspaper case or an Internet case.
By the way, she is already out on Bail.
posted on 4-15-2009 at 12:05 AM ramuma53
And sorry about that tripledigitken I understand what you wanted to say and clearly know you will not buy illegal turtle now, but we are always
claiming that there is no justice for Americans in Mexico but I think this show that there is justice in Mexico, not strong enought to hold her in
jail for long, but I don't think she will have her restaurant for long after this.
Also if you want any proff, just ask Munoz at director@munoz-industries.com , he has always provided everything asked for, with no questions asked.
posted on 4-15-2009 at 11:31 AM
Well, Baja Gringo, that is the problem, I am citing court cases, and you cite me newspaper articles with personal opinions; if you call personal
opinions evidence equal to court cases, then a problem arises; I am citing Public registry data, no newspaper opinions; I myself checked the legal
data and found the public documents where they are supposed to be, in a public office and there you find Police investigations and the result of
those, you find the Ejido La Purisima droping the claim that Munoz property is illegal and theirs, since he bought the land from the Federal
government and part of the procedure was conducted with the Ejido signature and seal.
On Semarnap, Munoz is not on Federal Zone, his property is the land on the side while Olivia is holding a Federal Zone concesion that allow her only
to have a Restaurant and palapas, her rent of bungalows ai unlawful as is to sell alchoolic veverages there; also and clearly selling turtle is not
allowed and is unlawful.
Clearly to obtain a right opinion we have to compare the same kind of proff to one side or the other.
What I am saying is that Munoz have all kind of legal verifiable and solid proffs while Olivia has only newspaper opinions sent by herself and her
husband.
Also, some of you sy you smell a rat; as if somebody had put the turtle on her, but remember that she was caught cooking it in her restaurant with the
heads in the restaurant kitchen by herself and her cook who was also detained; if somebody put her up to that she must have participated and accepted
to cook it and that is her own action, not something put there by somebody.
She was caught by a Marine commando operative, with a Propesca representative and Semarnao representative who were looking to all the commercial
kitchens and she was one of the two catched in the act; they argue that the turtle was for their own food but they had 2 big turtles for a couple of
people that is incredible; that is why she is in trouble, not because her land problems; lest not loose objectivity.
posted on 4-15-2009 at 04:00 PM
As we know, they checked El Burro, the Hotel Buenaventura and several other kitchens, but in Bahia Concepcion only Olivia Higuera Aguilar in
Restaurant El Zargazo and another Lady named Gorosabe on Requeson beach were caught selling and cooking it for sale, they caught another place near
Constitucion, but they say they checked about 200 places with only those 3 catches.
The Propesca commisioner was in Baja for 3 days only coming from Sonora, so the operative was staged to take him to as many places as they could in
those 3 days, his visit was published and only a fool may have been catched selling sea turtle, but aparently Olivia didn't care or didnt know of the
area operative, but it was obvious, it was easter vacation, it happen all over Mexico, besides, those operatives should be more frequent.
Also, looks like a lot of people are very willing to accept sea turtle as food and don't mind people selling it, some sound like they are even hurt
that she was caught in the act of cooking 2 big sea turtles, with a big pot of stew, 2 blody shells and 2 heads in her posesion.
My friends, that is a federal ofense and a hideous crime and more for sale, lets get our values straight and avoid double standards.
it is not up to us to decide how criminal this act is, it is a criminal act agaisnt nature, no way around.
posted on 4-15-2009 at 09:56 PM
Well Diver, even if I don’t write very often, that doesn’t make me new, I am registered since 2003 and that makes you the newcomer, not me, so I am
not exactly new here, I am a tenant of Mr. Munoz who live in Buenaventura Beach and I am not stomping it down your throats, I just don't like wrong
statements circulating without commenting on them and those are not my facts, those are public facts, legal facts that I know and that I have not just
extracted from an newspaper; of course, I investigated it because it affect me, I live there, but I went to the bottom of it with my attorney and if
you do that, you will find that Mr. Munoz simply is the land owner and that Olivia used to work for him and had only a power of attorney, then she was
fired and got the Federal Zone on her name, while the Hotel that has never been hers, paid for it, and the bills are in the Hotel accounting to prove
that fact; we the Buenaventura tenants have been there since 1994 and Munoz have been the owner since 1971 for what I know and with the Ejido
knowledge and consent, I am not alone living there, Mr. Thad Braxton and Mr. Murphy and Mr. Stan Valentine also live there and all of them pay rent to
Mr. Munoz not to Olivia, just ask to Mr. Stan Valentine how much money was extorted from him by Olivia and her husbands and if he has lost a penny
with Mr. Munoz.
It just revolt my stomach to see how people just believe what Olivia print in the clearly interested party newspaper; just write to that newspaper and
see if they print first page 8 columns 7 times what you said but they print even false statements from Olivia every time; yes there is a rat, but it
is not Munoz and time will give me the reason, just wait for it, we really have time on Baja to wait for anything, or not?.
My question may be, why so much interest to protect a criminal? What I tell is a public true supported by public documents; why sustain the Olivia's
myth as a victim when she is really the attacker and the known criminal; at this time she has 8 criminal prosecutions in Mulege and one Federal now;
from wounding an American with intent to kill to robbery and damages and lying to authorities, just ask the district attorney in Mulege, not me; she
was even sentenced for stealing from an American couple a few years back but anyway she never paid the money back; those are known facts by all the
people who live near us and now you, because you asked suggesting a bad intention; if you ask, you will get hard facts about Olivia all over the
place.
posted on 4-15-2009 at 10:29 PM
El iNVESTI8 of course I am Mexican by birth and my name is Eduardo Villa Arellano, I will never deny it, just worked hard in American and came back,
my main language is Spanish, that fact is not a secret or the point here.
About protecting our houses, you are right because every year our houses get robed in October when we go to America, but armed guards are expensive
and that is why we don't do it, but we really need them, that is true.
About calling Mr. Munoz "Mano Negra", it is a disrespect act, but it is because he always use a black glove, because of an industrial accident; also,
as I told you, he has never taken anything from nobody here in Buenaventura Beach, just ask the hometenants here.
About the newspaper article saying that he took some houses in some other place, we laugh about it here, because he does not even know the place where
those houses are, as they are shown on the newspaper and if you segest he took a house here, these houses are his property, we are just renting them
from him, but anyway he has not taken anyone's house here.
Those are the lies I was talking about, printed in the newspaper without even corroborate them as true facts, clearly Olivias is trying to discredit
him and she has a lot of expensive help and that is something that smell like a rat, but people who know him personally will always give you the real
thing, he is not bad at all and will help anybody who need it, as many people can tell you here and in Mulege, we just don't care about the newspaper.
The other fact is that Olivia commited a crime by her own acts, may be a sting, but she fell for it, it is like as if I ask you to kill somebody and
you do it; you will only do it if you are an assasin, even if it is a sting and stings are used to catch criminals all over the world, just ask Mr.
Delorean.
The fact is that those sea turtles are dead because she cooked them to sell them as food and that is a crime, here in Mexico and in the USA too, she
may had just refused to cook them as anyone of us would have done, I am sure.
posted on 4-16-2009 at 12:29 PM
Ok. first Sharkbaja
Those are lies, Requeson or Buenaventura roads never were closed, and if you know the area, through Requeson road you can access any other beach;
there were other 3 entrances that were closed for security reason; as you must know, last year an American was killed in La Armenta and closing all
those entrances enhanced the area security because to enter the beaches you have to pass in front of a lot of people; so the bottom of it is that the
beaches never were closed and it was a complete lie as every authority there is, found out because motivate by 5, 8 columns first pages on El
Sudcaliforniano went to verify and ask every person arround, but when they arrived, Requeson was full of people and completely open, the same for
Buenaventura; the funny thing is that the day the first news came out, the Estate police was there because they were investigating the roberies in our
area, so the Police commander and agents are withnesses that the beaches were never closed.
That is what I am talking about, you have to be there to know the true facts, the nespaper is printing every lie Olivia send them, without even
checking on it.
posted on 4-16-2009 at 01:08 PM
ELINVEST8 now, you are bringing out exactly the right questions, lets comapare the two caracters and I know the two of them.
Engineer Rafael Munoz Martinez, also attorney at law, was a Senate Candidate for North Baja on the 2000 elections, he owned then the ABC Baja
newspaper and has a lot of journalistic trophies, past president of 2 small land owners associations in Rosarito beach, he was teaching martial arts
ar the Army School when he was 18 years old, advisor for 2 lawmakers, congresswoman Mercedes Erdman and Mercedes Maciel, he founder of the Workers
Party in Rosarito Beach and security advisor for the Mexican Army, I would trust any amount of money to Munoz while feeling safe and more would be
overkill ok, but remember thr Army connection.
Olivia Higuera Aguilar, she used to work for the Electrical Company in Mexicali Baja, whith her ex husband Michael, she started bringing all kind of
stuf from Central Mexico and bought even an airplane, they were bringing even wores to Buenaventura restaurant and one of them run off with her
husband; two of her older brothers were killed in drug wars in Mexicali, she is a realtive of Martin Anaya Gorosave and just check on that one with
your local DEA; she has 8 open criminal prosecutions in Mulege one of them for injuryes to an American with intent to kill and now one Federal for the
turtles; she is selling alchool without a legal Federal permit for Federal Zone, she rent a house when it it prohibited by law to sub lease any part
of Federal Zone and now she was caught cooking and selling sea turtle; also all arround here we see the unloading of boats at 3 AM and the next day a
lot of policemen coming for 10 minute visits to her restaurant and have seen the army trying to catch them running all over the beach several times,
she was sentenced along with her ex husband Mike for taking in a fraudulent way money from Mr. and Mrs. Christ, a couple who gave them money to build
a house and got nothing and she never paid back a cent; she took more than $250,000 USD from my neighbor Mr. Stan Valentine who never got a cent back.
To who would you trust some money?
Also a lot of times, Olivia and Mark refuse service to Mexicans in her restaurant and refuse to grant access to the boats ramp and that is also
against the law.
As you see, you have to know facts first hand to really have an opinion, but don't belive me, ask my neighbors who are Americans like Mr. Thad and
Lora Jones at thadbrax@yahoo.com , or Mr. Stan Valentine or Mr. Murphy at TERRYRMURF@aol.com who are deffending themselves from Agrarian claims from
Olivia, who is trying to get their houses. and gues who is helping us to keep our houses, Mr. Munoz.
posted on 4-16-2009 at 01:46 PM
BajaGringo
Concerning the land, I am sorry to tell you that the land at this minute is not subjected to any trial, because the Ejido La Purisima backed up their
claims against Munoz, because they found out through official channels that Munoz property title was good and legal after a 2 years investigation by
the Federal Police because an Olivia claim, so there is never going to be a Supreme Court ruling because there is no trial, the only trials are Olivia
against the home tenants, JUICIO AGRARIO: TUA-48-047/2006. POBLADO LA PURÍSIMA MUNICIPIO DE COMONDÚ and others against us;
trying to collect $250,000 USD from each one of us, but it has already been proved that her Ejido Land is 1 Km north of Munoz property and does not
everlap.
At this minute nobody is challenging Munoz property rights in any court, all the claims have already been dropped after investigation.
Also, our topic was not about the land, it was about the morality of killing turtles and cooking them for sale; this started because I see that many
of us, take this ban as a shalow thing, like if the bad thing is that she was caught cooking a big stew pot, with 2 bloody shells and two turtle heads
in her trash can, all this in a restaurant full of people waiting for the food.
You acuse me of being biased, but I see a lot of bias from people who do not personally know the real facts or Mr. Munoz or the whole story.
Also you acuse Munoz of drug connections and say it as if you know it for a fact; if you knew him, you will know it is exactly the oposite, he is on
the other side and I know that Olivia use Crack and cocaine because I have been there and I know that with Munoz, he don't even smoke cigaretes and
drugs are out of the question.
My friends, any one of you have access to DEA, just ask for the two of them, you will get a very different opinion about both of them; there Mr. Munoz
is known as Mr. Munoz while Olivias is known as "La Vaquera" and her Mafia realtive as "El Gordo" and just look at the records there.
Of course I am angry, but I am mad about those drug landings on our beach at 3:30 AM, the roberies and violence against all of us, who suposedly came
to Baja to a paradise.
I also know a lot of people who think Olivia is a nice people, but not many Mexicans think like that, or for that matter any person who lives on
Buenaventura beach Mexican or American.
posted on 4-16-2009 at 02:00 PM
tripledigitken
Don't worry, Munoz is not selling, but fore sure if it comes to that, I will any time buy a house from Mr. Munoz without losing my sleep and with time
I asure you, this place is going to be one of the safest and legal places on Baja, we are not just reading newspapers, we are doing something and yes
I am extremely biased against killing turtles and losing my house to Olivia.
posted on 4-16-2009 at 02:02 PM
I forgot, slender is when you tell lies, just try to prove any of my words as a lie, you would find even more and more on the same direction, that is
why I became bias, I wasn't, now I am, because I investigated myself.
posted on 4-16-2009 at 02:04 PM
Also Jesee, others already noticed it, why are you so adamant on defending her? what is your bias or hiden interest?
posted on 4-16-2009 at 02:19 PM
Bajajack
all of us give a cram, we live here and we ant to live in a lawful place, that is why we are in board, reading about Baja
posted on 4-16-2009 at 02:51 PM
Bajagringo
You are right, you did not said anything on Mafia, but we are discussing a topic here and others did it and I asure you the one who said it, got the
point
It looks like many of our board friends make questions, but don't like the answers from people who are there and when it involves personal action,
they preffer to just talk, but we who live here have to act and that is why we know every fact and when you get personally involved, sooner or latter
you make your descision on where to stand and I am there, I know where I am standing and what I want, a clean and safe and drug free Baja with all its
beauty parts in place for now and the future; here we are just talking, but you ask questions that have an answer that cost us a lot of actions and
money to investigate.
Of course sooner or latter Olivia will come in Line, but she will not be able to explain why she killed the turtles or why she kooked them in her
restaurant.
On the property question, I know that many of you don't know and don't really care to investigate yourselves, actions are only for the affected people
like me or my neighbors, but if you are not ready to make a judgement, don't give opinions on matters that you are not ready to corroborate and give a
first hand opinion; here in internet, we have the responsability to say the true facts we know, but also you can be questioned by anybody, even with
fool questions or by people not really concerned who just say worng things, but that is the beauty of Internet, it is free speech, just if you ask, be
ready to analyze the information you get back and this is not for you Bajagringo, is fo all of our board friends.
posted on 4-16-2009 at 03:00 PM
Jesee
you afirm that both are wrong, do you personally know any of them to afirm that any of them are wrong? I do, I know both of them and read the same
newspapers, only I have first hand information, I am here and I can tell you, she in free on bail, Propesca will fine her $750,000 pesos, Profepa
something similar and Semarnap will close her retaurant forever and those are news you will read in the same newspapers in the near future.
You really want to be able to say who is wrong, just go to the Agrarian Tribunal there in La Paz and ask, even the dogs outside know about this, but
get first hand information and then tell us what you found.
posted on 4-16-2009 at 10:30 PM
Bajagringo
To Munoz, I consider him as a friend but he is also my landlord, and you will find that same answer from all the house tenants in Buenaventura beach,
to Munoz Industries, I would like to have a relationship, but no, sorry for me but I don't have any.
posted on 4-16-2009 at 10:49 PM
Skipjakjoe
About the turtles you are completely wrong since we have always tried to protect the sea turtles, some times when the fishermen bring the turtles for
sale as meat, only some times they have them all tied up but alive and on those ocasions I have paid for them as meat and then released them in to the
sea, they sell them for as little over a hundred dollars a big one and when I have them I do it; the crime is to harm them, not to pay to release
them; all my neighbors really care about the Bahia Concepcion enviroment, it is our yard, I snorkel a lot, the same as them and the rays and the
turtles are a joy to watch free, but the ray killings ar very high too.
On Olivia, she deserve this and more; I wont do anything to create her a harm but she do it herself prety good anyway.
If Olivia were a good neighbor, she may stay there forever as it concern to me, but she is not, she is the debil in paradise; I know she used to be
better but her actions dictate our feelings; we used to go to her restaurant with Feliciano and have a good time, but now it is imposible, she is
always high on something; she used to be beautyful, but just look at her now.
Anyway, now she is a known liar and an adict who cant control herself and that is why she have not been able to reach an agreement with Munoz; I know
that he at one time he offered her $50,000 USD to avoid conflicts but, she went and started the fight; just a few days ago, in front of me, Munoz
asked her to propose something within reason and the next day she started with the lies in the newspaper about closing the beaches.
What would you do with a neighbor like that? love her? No, I don't even apreciate her now and as soon as she go out of Buenaventura, the better for
everybody, she is just prolonging her agony.
posted on 4-17-2009 at 07:31 AM
buenaventura
To all concerned; yes, I have been involved in many different and some very bad situations, affecting my business for more de 19 years, my reputation,
my image and my life of all the ones I love including our families and friends. I am not going to tell you all of the details of this lately federal
offense that indeed happened in my restaurant on Saturday April 11th, Easter weekend, because is and going to be under investigation. I am working in
my restaurant and my business is open that’s a big plus, yes it is a huge felony and you don’t stay out to tell the story, you go straight to a
federal prison and might be 1 to 9 years in jail, but who ever is trying to nail me down didn’t do it right. I was not selling “soup”, I DID NOT KNOW
because the food was bring to my restaurant cooked and ready to be serve, I was not making money with it, it was for a group of Mexican families from
Ensenada and they were going to pay for the drinks and service as well for the use of the facilities of the beach and restaurant. The officials from
Pesca and Sagarpa including the marines were there for hours and DID NOT find any illegal and/or out of season species in my freezers or
refrigerators, what they found in a pick-up truck outside the restaurant in the garbage containers was these plastic bag with parts of a turtle, 2
heads, 4 fins and the chest or bottom part of it, NO BLOOD OR GUTS. Also parts were in a plastic bag type that I do not have here. No other parts were
found.
Someone called after dropping off a blue covered pot at my restaurant and said “there is a pot blue with turtle at Buenaventura. Parts of turtle in
trash, and drugs under the computer.
Rafael Munoz “el mano negra” mentions that I have several reports in Mulege for different “crimes” but HE does’nt say that he is the one that made all
these accusations against me and fail in all of them.
If anyone has questions about me and wants to know more about these nightmare feel free to come to my restaurant, because I am not going to play this
BS that Munoz plays.
Muchas gracias, Olivia Higuera.
posted on 4-17-2009 at 08:10 AM
I am very proud of my wife Olivia who is 51 years. I think she has done very well against Munoz. We have been dealing with this individual for nearly
seven years. Now with reading his posts some of you know what we have enured for all these years.
I have some handsome pictures of Rafael Munoz that i would like to share. How do i attach to a post?
posted on 4-17-2009 at 06:28 PM
Well the poachers appeared
Mark is saying now that I am a bodyguard, hope I look like one at least; well it is hard to be a bodyguard for Munoz when I am here in Buenventura
while he has been in New York for 3 weeks now, don't you think? Mark I saw you a couple of times today, you even told me you will do something against
my life and Munoz life yesterday, don't you remember? and you claim that you know Munoz is not here, something that is true, rare on yourself but true
this time; you don't make any sense but we are begining to uncover you and really understand you.
Last time you were saying that Olivia was cooking the stew for your own consumption in Loreto and now you are saying that it was already prepared and
was going to be served for some Ensenada families.
I would like to know any person here in this board who knowing that it is illegal sea turtle will serv it in his house.
Well, I can now call you a poacher and a liar freely and you know I will do it to your face, it is not the first time.
Concerning your brush with the Mexican army, why don't you tell them that that day 2 boats were being unloaded ar 3:30 Am on your ramp and when you
saw that some people were looking at you, everybody ran; of course the the military arrived late because miraculously the hotel telephone was burned
that same morning and the hotel pick up tires were punctured; I know, random events of course.
You start not looking like victims anymore.
posted on 4-17-2009 at 06:36 PM
O and Caboron
we have heard those screams coming from Olivia's restaurant several times and also a nice pigy was killed there very cold fashion by Mark, with a
knife; I was unable to even touch jam for a month after that; also remember that you killed one our little dogs, only 3 months old with a shovel Mark;
just don't try to hide it, it is showing this time all over the place.
posted on 4-17-2009 at 06:42 PM
Just to check on the Sudcaliforniano news, we went today to Santa Rosalia to fix our phone and just for fun went to Santa Ines the place where the
newspaper claim Munoz took some houses, for your information, there, they don't even know who Munoz is; then how is it possible that El
Sudcaliforniano keep printing your screams every time, even if they are not true and this one anyone can check, just look for somebody from that area,
even you Mark.
posted on 4-17-2009 at 06:44 PM
Oliguacamole or bether said Olivia Higuera Aguilar, I am intense because it is illegal to kill sea turtles and the turtles losses can not be cut like
you cut their necks; what do you feel when they scream Olivia?
osted on 4-17-2009 at 07:00 PM
BajaGringo please read and see that even Olivia and Mark know me, they said that I am Munoz bodyguard but I am not fore sure I don't have the body or
the training; she is calling me her neighbor don't you see and yes we are neighbors and we know each other very well and I know them too well for
their own good by now.
you try to make an issue because we use Munoz computer to write, sorry but everything here is his property, even the computers and satellite
connection and email accounts; please don't try to confuse the fact that we are talking about protecting the eviroment here, that is the topic, don't
loose it.
posted on 4-17-2009 at 07:09 PM
Well, I se Olivia just went offline without answering, she noticed that she inclriminated herself, well, remember when I told you that she does the
worst harm to herself; I rest my case, good night.
posted on 4-17-2009 at 07:15 PM
O and Olivia, now that you mention the end of lower Agrarian court trials, dont forget to tell them that those cases are against us your neighbors,
that you are trying to take our homes from us and collect $250,000 USD from each one of us, you lost against Munoz, but you are still going against
us; just go to court and see that our appeal is in, so don't be so happy so soon.
posted on 4-17-2009 at 11:50 PM
Ok, Bajagringo, you keep on believing that I am Munoz, even if it has no consequence for this discussion, but for your information, the Munoz
Industries email is the email used here at the hotel for reservations by internet and is very public; the hotel and everything incluiding the
computers are Munoz Property, and I mean the houses where we live too; if you want to communicate with Munoz, you have to use the same email and that
is director@munoz-industries.com and that will come to the hotel also, he has private emails, but just email him direct and he will answer, he reads
everything and he has always been a gentlemen; also his english is a lot better than mine, but lets keep to our topic.
Today the Hotel Buenaventura got an email from Green Peace and they are going to press the federal authorities to make an example of these poachers
and also from other pro nature organizations that have read about this HERE and came through the hotel webpage and yes through the same Munoz emails
that we can see here.
Looks like the poachers are not going to have it as easy as they tought; closing of the restaurant is asured and voiding of the Federal Zone concesion
a must.
I also found out that killing a turtle has a heavier penalty than killing a human; if you kill a human and show at least some self preservation you
will stay only 2 to 4 years in jail while a killing a turtle carry a 12 years jail sentence, more fore who cook it, sell it and or transport it.
I also called Munoz about this conversation I have been having and he will enter the board in the next few days; looks like I am a lot more expresive
than he is.
posted on 4-18-2009 at 12:54 PM
My friends, for that matter, at one time I was corossing the border Tijuana San Diego with new boots bought in Tijuana, those were turtle leather; at
the San Ysidro border entrance, Customs confiscated my boots and didn't charged me, but I was afraid to looose my greencard then; happyly I was able
to demostrate that I had just bought the boots in a legal shoe store and I know that that store was closed a few weeks later, so it is no easy thing
to posses, transport, sale or even use sea turtle products.
Actually the law forbids the harrasing, catching, harming, sale and transportation of sea turtles or its products or derivates; if you have an old
shell, it is not a crime as long as you don't transport it, sale it or cross the border with it.
On the other side, Olivia was catched with two fresh LOODY shells from 2 sea turtles, being cooked on her restaurant stove in a big pot, with the two
real fresh heads in the kitchen INSIDE trash container; also she accept that she was warming it as a favor to some Ensenada families who were inside
her restaurant for free while every person who know Olivia must know that she would never do that for free, that is an imposibility, she always
charge for everything, no exception and even her friends know that.
My friends, also note that the hotel has no telephone at this moment, since last boat unlodading on Olivia's Restaurant and the Propesca raid was
after that, so the tip could not have come from the Buenaventura hotel and we know that the only other telephone 15 miles orround is in Olivia's
restaurant, so the tip must have come from her restaurant, maybe one customer or employee or husband of her did it and since she charge for telephone
use, she must know who did the on time calls.
Also, Mark was not there very conveniently and since he is the restaurant co owner, or at least he say that, it is extrange, don't you think.
But anyway, they are known poachers now, they even accept that they had the Sea Turtle in their restaurant for their customers service free or not,
they say free, but that is hard to believe even for her adamant protectors here.
The real question is, Do we condone the actual serving of Sea Turtle in a restaurant today???????
It is not a matter that in the past we like it or not, because I used to like it; not as a tradition, because it was not; they just were selling it
all over Tijuana; it was not like turky tradition, we just were able to get it anyplace; of course in Baja, if you went to an able home, they will
offer the best and that was Sea Turtle, now they offer shrimp the same way, or fish; Sea Turtle was not a tradition, it was the best at that time; now
only the ones who are able to brake the law with impunity do it, being a corrupt governor or politician, but it is like inviting you to be their
associate in crime.
We are not loosing tradition when we are not able to serve Sea Turtle in our homes, we can still make that dish, they call it Cahuamanta; it taste the
same, the flavor is the same except it is made of fish, ray meat and beef' so the tradition can continue without the Sea Turtles participation.
When all over the world the lawmakers in our representation, baned the Sea Turtles from our tables and menus, it was for a reason; the sea turtles
were being hunted to extintion; one way or the other, the Sea Turtles were gone from the tables, also they have become extremely expensive.
So we have not lost a tradition, we have not lost the excuisite dish and we are very willing to see the turtles sweeming in the sea, very alive.
We just need to take a step in to an active position and really protect the remaining sea turtles with our condoning or repudiating the ones that
break that law, being a governor, a politician, a policeman, a restaurant owner or a friend who serve it at home when he invite you. that is the
question for us here ???????????
posted on 4-18-2009 at 01:36 PM
Baja gringo
Still unable to solve that one; if you check in the internet Munoz curriculum vitae, you will notice that he is a Civil Engineer, an attorney at law,
speaks spanish, english and some italian; also he studied Physics, Electromechanical engineering, a lot of computng systems and know several
programing languages; does that sound like a guy who can do that and more ? and of course would not make as many mistakes as the humble of me.
Anyway, just listen to Olivia and Mark, the interested parties, they KNOW ME, they think I am his bodyguard, but are unable to explain how come the
bodyguard is enjoying the Baja beaches while the principal in in New York; doesent sound like the bodyguards I see in the movies at least.
posted on 4-18-2009 at 04:06 PM
Baja Gringo
I would prefer to remain out of this discussion for now, because there is an ongoing Federal investigation about the facts being discussed here. But
as an attention to my friend Eddy, I will make a small contribution of the facts known to be true, I know Eddy was there himself and he is not a liar
as far as I know, so I also think the same way he does, so just take his worlds as mine too, Olivia and Mark know I am not afraid of telling it to
their faces also, I have done it many times.
Baja gringo, What you know, is where an Internet protocol (IP) is assigned, and it is assigned where it enter the Physical Internet network, when it
is dynamic and uploaded to a satellite connection, It goes up the satellite stream in pockets and then down at the Internet Service Provider (ISP)
where it is assigned the Dynamic IP, where it enters the physical network; and since my Satellite Service Provider for Buenaventura Hotel is in
Tijuana, it is not bizarre you find that. Also, you will find that, if you locate the dynamic IP for my personal computer which is where I am sending
this comment from, it will always be in Tijuana. I have a contract for wireless broadband connection with Telcel in Tijuana and that means, that from
any place in continental America, it goes through the 3G Cellular networks, all the way to Tijuana and then it enters there to the physical Internet
network. So, I may be in any place in the world and as long as I use that connection, the dynamic IP is going to be a Tijuana assigned; so much for
you as a spy. But this is just a technical distraction since the main issue is solved, I uphold Eddie’s words as mine and he has my permission to use
my Hotel Buenaventura address and connections. Just take it as if I had said it; Is that enough for you?
Please, Eddie has a big mouth but, he seems to feel like he needs to set the record straight, I don’t. Your comments here do not affect me, in any
way, I only do it because it is not fair that you keep putting in doubt Eddie’s ideas, just because you don’t believe he is who he is. He is and has
my complete support if that is what you wanted to know, he is also not my bodyguard, he is shorter than me, I am the martial arts expert, not him, it
would work better the other way around.
Why do we know so much about Olivia’s investigation? Because I have several of my attorneys looking for ways that the law is not violated here. She
has done it locally for years, Federal is another sphere and she was caught by several law enforcement organizations with interlocking actions and
interest. Also, we have a presidential directive to fight organized crime and nature organizations are starting to act against her.
Why she was caught? She was caught, because she is under a Federal police microscope, for her boat unloading at 3:00 AM since years ago and this is
not a secret anyplace anymore. They were unable to catch her last time, but for sure the whole deal was observed by law officials and at that time, it
was no longer my say or my friends say anymore, everything else is a consequence.
Why is she so upset about me, because I put a whole system of cameras, even robotic cameras with 250 x zoom and starlight with the stream uploaded to
internet instantly and that system has been recording all her movements for months, including all the law officials’ visits after the landings? This
data is not in my possession anymore, so don’t get any ideas.
Mark, you try to appear like a hurt husband by unfair attacks on your poor wife. Those accusations have been there for years, and as I remember, you
ran from me every time I catch you in my property, not in a rhetoric way, you really run fast. Also, tell us why you are with a lady 20 years older
than you, that is by far no longer a beauty even if she was when she was younger and not so much in to drugs, I recognize. Also, many people saw you
very happy when she was arrested saying that you were now the owner.
Olivia may be many things, including now a poacher, but she has always been a lady, why are you so afraid that she may make a deal with me? Remember
last time when you practically dragged her from my presence, when she told me she wanted a deal? Mark, act like a gentlemen and let the lady off, you
are never going to be a millionaire as you dreamed; the lady deserves a fair chance in life, you are making her make life changing mistakes.
*****posted on 4-21-2009 at 03:19 PM
This is Rafael Muñoz Martinez, since a lot of what is said here is always put in doubt, I want to share some verifiable information from reputable
sources, sorry it is in Spanish, but I don’t want somebody to say I miss translated:
--------------------------------------
De: Everardo Mariano Melendez <emariano@conanp.gob.mx>
Fecha: Wed, 15 Apr 2009 19:19:42 -0500
Para: Aarón Esliman <aaron@grupotortuguero.org>, Everardo Mariano Melendez <ever1234@hotmail.com>, Ernesto Israel Popoca Arellano
<epopoca@conanp.gob.mx>
Asunto: RE: Restaurante sorprendido vendiendo Caguama en Bahia Concepcion, Mulege B.C.S.
Hola Aarón,
Efectivamente fueron detenidas dos personas del sexo femenino, con pruebas evidentes de dos tortugas que preparaban para guiso de caguama, fueron
remitidas ante el ministerio público federal por delitos ambientales, la PGR atrajo el caso y hasta lo último que supe fueron procesadas. Se les
encontró en el acto y con las evidencias periciales.
En Loreto nos pidieron ayuda para buscar depositarios del producto y le fue turnado el caso a PROFEPA. Me parece que este tipo de revisiones a
restaurantes debiese ser con mayor frecuencia y poner una alerta que tanto es culpable quien la captura como quien la consume.
Estamos en contacto!
Saludos.
Ever
Everardo Mariano Meléndez
Encargado del Despacho
Parque Nacional Bahía de Loreto
Tel: (613) 11350477
Paseo Pedro de Ugarte S/N
Col. Misioneros.
Loreto, B.C.S.
-----Mensaje original-----
De: Aarón Esliman [mailto:aaron@grupotortuguero.org]
Enviado el: mié 15/04/2009 17:40
Para: Everardo Mariano Melendez; Everardo Mariano Melendez; Ernesto Israel Popoca Arellano
Asunto: FW: Restaurante sorprendido vendiendo Caguama en Bahia Concepcion, Mulege B.C.S.
Hola Ever, me acaba de llegar esto, sabes algo de este asunto, creo que
sería bueno investigar por allá que apso con esto, se ve bastante feo y me
encantaría poder contestar algo a este cuate. Se los encargo mucho.
Saludos
Aarón
----------------------------
So I am not making it up, and Olivia was caught in fraganti cooking the Sea Turtle stew pot in her restaurant for sale to a lot of people, detained,
put in jail and she is free on bail, pending the administrative and criminal sanctions. Also, it makes clear that Mexican reputable Nature
Organizations are promoting the checking and pressing for the convictions, not me.
Some of you are right, Olivia or Oliguacamole just lost the little credibility she had here, because she invented something without knowing the Middle
Eastern costumes; the true is that I almost always use a glove, because of an industrial accident that happened in one of my business; I am a Civil
engineer, but also studied Law and I am an attorney at law, but as I say, I studied law to protect myself from my own attorneys, so it happened to me
when saving an employee of mine; I have my hand, so it is also false that I don’t have it or chopped off; it was burned and I can’t control the
temperature, so it does not get cold I almost always use the glove but I have the use of it, it is even evident on the photo Olivia shared with you
and the Sudcaliforniano and it is becoming clear who try to deceive you.
On the fact that Eddie said that I own my 1000 Has. Lot since 1971 when I was 18 years old, it is only partially true, because I claimed the property
at that time, but my private property title was issued in 1988 and a complement on 1992; I bought it from the Federal Government and the validity of
it was checked by the Federal Police and a Federal Judge thanks to Olivia and Mark, who denounced me formally of having a falsified title and at this
moment the Federal Police and the Federal Judge declared my title lawful; Olivia Know of it because that is the cause why the Ejido La Purisima,
dropped their claims against my title and me; also because in my file, they in 1985 ageed to my limits and signed and put their seal in agreement on
an official document, so I have no quarrel with the Ejido and if Olivia is part of the Ejido she should have done the same, but she is trying to
collect from my American tenants, but that is a legal battle that do not affect me and should not be part of this.
On Federal Zone, there you are in my knowledge sphere, It is very important for you who live near the sea to know what is Federal Zone and what is
not: Federal zone according to the law, is a 20 mts. strip of land measured WHEN THE COAST HAS A BEACH AND THE SOLID GROUND BESIDE THE BEACH IS LESS
THAN 30 DEGREES; ONLY THERE THE FEDERAL ZONE WILL BE MEASURED; this is very important because if there is no beach there is no Federal Zone and you
should not pay for it and this is the law since 1992 by decree; I know that this is not exactly the information the Federal Zone officials want you to
know, because what you pay for it, is in some cases 30% of the city income as is in Rosarito Beach; there, I as an expert witness won the cases for
Castillos del Mar and others, so it is a tested in court true; they want everybody to believe that the Federal Zone is 20 mts. From the sea, but it is
not, since on cleefs there is no Federal Zone, or where the solid ground is more than 30 degrees there is also not a Federal Zone. (If you need
details, just write me and I will give you exact details on the law.)
Another very important fact on Federal Zone is that even if you have the Federal Zone concession, you cannot charge for people using it or crossing
it, you can only use the consession only for the use authrized; also it is unlawful to sub lease any part of a concession; Federal Zone if public
property and no way around it; also you cannot sell alcohol on it or rent houses on it since it would be sub leasing; nobody can charge you for going
to the beach, they can rent you an umbrella, but they cannot prevent you from using it. Then you the Wagon Masters here will say “O but you charge” it
is true, I charge you for overnight parking your buses on my property, because I have a parking permit but if you go on foot and leave your bus on the
highway, nor me, or anybody can prevent you from using the beach, any land owner by law have to allow people to walk to the beach, not by car, walk;
you can see that the hotels always leave a narrow passage to the beach, enough to walk but not for vehicles, but in my case I allow free parking on my
property during the day and only when you stay overnight I charge them and that because they use the bathroom and the water cost me, since I bring it
by truck from Mulege 30 miles north.
Olivia does not have a parking permit because it is forbidden to park or use vehicles on the Federal Zone, you can only park or drive vehicles on the
property, out of federal zone and she has not been noticing that I allow her customers to park on my property without paying, but I can legally close
her access to the restaurant at any time I want. She even has to ask for my permission to cross my property and I have a letter signed by her, asking
for that permission and if she denies it I can show it, it was signed by her in front of a Navy Captain who also signed as witness.
I know that most of what Olivia do is because she don’t know the law and its details and that is why I say that if I disagree with her, she has always
been a lady, not a true telling lady but a lady.
Also so you can understand me, the Property tax on my property is $850,000 USD a year and that is way over the $5000 USD they pay and those prices
were put there by the lawmakers and that is done to force people to develop the valuable properties, but we will never do it with places like Olivia
there that cannot be moved or have a real money obligation according to what they prevent.
On the fact that she got the Federal Concession, I can comment and prove that she paid for that concession with the hotel funds and the payments are
in the Hotel accounting books and if she is not the Hotel owner, she took personal advantage of being at one time the Hotel manager, with a power of
attorney only (hope she does not denies it because I have a public notary document where she accept that, “she does not own any part of the hotel”).
Also just consider, I have a $750,000 USD investment in the hotel, pay taxes on the hotel and the property, while she rent a Federal Zone house
without paying any taxes, because it is unlawful to do it, she sells liquor without paying for a federal permit or tax and she uses my property as her
parking, because in Federal zone, she has no area, because she use it with buildings, that cannot be there, because in Federal zone you cannot put
permanent buildings.
posted on 4-22-2009 at 02:09 PM
Good question. From Oliguacamoles's Own words, or Olivia's or Mark own words here, they accepted and said here that they were going to serve the stew
to a group of Ensenada families, now the turtle was planted, make up your mind, because you lies are showing up here Olivia.
Ok you made a big mistake, just accept it; you know it will cost you a lot of money, but I don't think more than that, depending on how good they got
you and how hard the Nature organizations press to make an example of you, but you know that usually that do not happen, so just tell the true story.
by the way the black hotel's truck is in Loreto at the mechanic, do you want to check, also all my employees are in the hotel if you want to check
also.
I also agree that the people who was waiting to eat the turtles should have been prosecuted and Olivia must know who they are since she was making
them a really big favor by warming the turtle stew; you will do that free only for people who are very familiar with you so just ask them to come
forward and take the heat from you; if you don't know them, it means that it was for sale
Olivia, you are hanging yourself with your own words
Also Mark, you threatened my employees yesterday in Mulege at the tire store with killing them like it will happen to me; how is it that you are very
brave only with women, why don you threaten me in my face next time you see me instead of runing like like you always do ???????? many people say you
are a nice guy, but nice guys do not threaten to kill people, or they do??? let see you next time and you know you will see me.
posted on 4-22-2009 at 09:58 PM
Mark, this is not the first time you do it, only most of the times you do it in a situation where there is your word against some one else and you
never were brave enough to try it with me, but several times you have done it to women working in the hotel, only this time you did it in town, in
front of another people and in front of the tire store employees who were able to confirm that you went to them while changing a tire; I mention it
this time because you did it in public in in front of withness in a demostrabe way.
I know, dog that barg don't bite but what boders me is that this NICE GUY who sells sea turtle, do it only to women while always run when confronted
with men; you by experience know that you can not fight with me, you went down at the first blow last time you tried to atack us, Juan also put you
down when you atacked the mail man but that is no excuse to now do it exclusively with woman.
I own the place with property titles, I have a Hotel, you have only a concession on a 20 mts strip that belong to public property; you violate the law
in several ways, who do you think will go?
I have never even bothered your employees, but you know you do it all the time up to the point of going in to my hotel to tell people that you rent a
house cheaper, or you will denie it too Mark?
posted on 4-22-2009 at 10:01 PM
Sorry, but I have no court date, it is only Olivia Against 4 Americans from who she is trying to take their house; since the Ejdio droped their claims
against me, I am not a part of the claims; she was claiming that my titles were false and those have already proved true, so I have no court
apointment, I won already; sorry I ca not say the same for the 4 Americans.
yes it may be boring, but this board is 11 pages long with a lot of people saying something
posted on 4-25-2009 at 09:50 AM
ELINVEST8
1.- Olivia and Mark quit bringing and selling drugs to Buenaventura beach
2.- She and Mark quit acting like gangsters
3.- Let the District Atorney solve all the claims for good or bad, do not brive them.
4.- Quit bothering the Americans about their houses in Agrarian Court.
5.- Just stay in Federal Zone, do not invade my property
6.- One extra sorry DO NOT HARM AMIMALS.
Are those so difficult???? I think they are.
posted on 4-26-2009 at 11:30 PM
ELINVEST8
1.- We have seen the boats unloadings at 3 AM and I mean law enforcement officers and me but soon she will se about that.
2.- Friday, Mark did not let Mr. Thad Braxton put his boat in the water because he was going to give two mexicans a ride, he threatend my life and his
with 2 more witnesses and the formal complain will be presented to the district attorney tomorrow, Wednesday he threatened 2 of my employees in Mulege
in front of other people; is that acting as a gangster enough.
3.- Because we have 8 formal complains against Olivia and Mark for robery, robery with violence, lying to judicial authorities, damages and she has
one from Jimmy Rusell for wounds with intent to kill and the complains have been lost several times, never acte upon or sent to the judge with obvious
flaws to be rejected; the Estate District attorney is under invesigation at this time for those flaws that are allowing Olivia and Mark to be free.
4.- The houses are in my property and at this time my prpperty is beyond doubt thanks to her, not in Federal Zone.
5.- She on a daily basis, croses over my property with her verhicles, use my property and do not attend warnings no to use my property; if you try to
stop her, she will attack you with violence, that is why she have so many formal complains; she try to build a house over my property and there is a
formal complain for that too, we stoped them.
6.- Yes, Mark killed a pig on a very sadistic way with a knife, the pig was like a pet for everybody, he killed one of our dogs ith a shovel in front
of several people and there are morebut not to my personal experience.
1.- Her claim for rent on American people living IN MY PROPERTY, when the Ejido dropped its claims because it was proved that my property is NOT EJIDO
LAND and Olivia's contract is one mile north of my property.
4.0 you can see El Sudcaliforniano, she has published 8 columns first page 7 times lies against me that were proved false by the authorities.
6.- The property title was proved true by the Federal Police and the federal judge, if it had not hapened that way, I would be in jail at this time,
there is no open investigation against me for that, all the charges proved false; she has acused me of taking the property from her but her charges
have been dropped because I have proved to be the legal owner while she only has a private contract with the ejido for a piece of land 1 mile north of
mine.
posted on 4-27-2009 at 10:54 PM
You are certainly right, those acts are being denounced to the proper authorities, but there the problem arises, she buy them.
Today she invaded my property again, she is trying to build with heavy equipment over Federal one even if that is forbiden by law, I will send you
soon photos of these acts.
My friends, the poor turtles are being forgoten by the authorities but not for long since I know paper is flying from one office to the other, soon
those will reach Olivia and maybe the turtles will be vindicated and their sacrifice will serve to save some others.
Well from now on I will just report new acts of vandalism by Olivia with proff.
Why I do it? why do you think?, if she can commit any crime and not be prosecuted, the only defense is making it public, don't you agree?
it is simple.
posted on 4-28-2009 at 06:22 PM
Sorry Pescador, but to talk you have to know.
A concession is the right to DO the activity being allowed by it, but it does not mean you own the place; if you build a ramp in Federal Zone, you are
building on Public property and the instant you build it, it belongs to Public Property and nobody can charge for the use of public property or deny
the use of public property. Also there can be several different concessions for different people on the same area, for different uses. The ignorance
of the law is what makes Olivia make so many mistakes, but it is as easy as to just read the concession papers.
Today those guys not allowed to use the ramp, talked to the Federal Zone and Mulege City officials, they asked them to make a formal complaint against
the American, who did, that because it is a Federal Offense, a city violation and a Federal Zone violation; the City major will watch that the
District attorney do fallow the law in this case because there have been too many incidents on that restaurant El Zargazo where the law was not
applied.
The Federal Zone officials also said that Olivia came to them to try to force me to tear down my perimeter fence, but they denied to act because I
have proved my property rights beyond any doubt and confirmed that it is unlawful to deny the use of the ramp to any person, since Olivia and Mark
only have the right to use it, also said that the ramp is not on Federal Zone, it is in Marine Zone that is National Property, Federal Zone is the
strip that start where the high tide water ends and the beach start, where the water at high tide start, is Marine Zone not Federal Zone and
absolutely nobody can prohibit the access to a Marine Zone.
Also Mark (American) and Olivia (Mexican) are lying about not charging or pretending not to charge for people having lunch at the beach, they
continually try but are not allowed by us, at least in front of my hotel, we have stopped them hundreds of times, specially Mark and think how a
Mexican National feel when an American come and talk to him in English and try to charge him for the use of the beach or out with the police, he had a
lot of problems with people, but he is good at intimidating people, specially women, those are his specialty.
posted on 4-28-2009 at 06:46 PM
Mark, why dont you take me to court to make me tear down my fence? or why don't you complain in criminal court for me putting it up?
O but you did try it, but were turned away because you have no right to any land and I have demostrated that I own the place; wel keep trying.
I put the perimeter fence around my property because it is my right to do so and you weren't able to do anything against it, because you are not the
owners of anything.
At this time you only have the right to use the Federal Zone to sell food but ONLY in movable structures, in other words in a movable cart, not in
permanent buildings, that is against the law because you deny the right to use it to other persons, just read your concession.
I know you were bribing the Federal Zone guys, but new and honest are coming from Mexico City to see if you are using the Federal Zone in the way you
are allowed to, and do you know why they are comming, because your newspaper articles
posted on 4-28-2009 at 06:54 PM
For those that remember the Turtles, Mexico City District Attorney asked today for the L
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ELINVESTIG8R
Select Nomad
Posts: 15882
Registered: 11-20-2007
Location: Southern California
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Jesse can you explain in plain English what you are saying in your last post above. It was kind of cryptic. Can you give us the Who, What, Where,
When, Why and How of what you mean. Thank you!
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ELINVESTIG8R
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Registered: 11-20-2007
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Spot on Wesson group...Great job getting it all in chronological order. As I have said before some people in here are SHEEPLE and no matter what is
shown to them they will continue to believe what they believe.
Rafael you have every God given right to continue posting your thoughts in here as do the others who do not agree with your side of the issue. Keep
posting as you deem appropriate and screw the people who call you a thief and a liar. I'm sure they would not want to be face to face with you and
call you a thief and a liar. For you cowards in here that insist Rafael Muñoz Martinez is a thief and a liar, and post those opinions of him in here
please feel free to contact him in u2u to arrange a meeting where you can go see him face to face and call him a thief and a liar you Keyboard Billy
BadAss Wannabes. Go ahead...
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ramuma53
Banned
Posts: 793
Registered: 2-27-2003
Location: Mulege B.C.S. Mexico
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Jesse the cooky liar
It is hard to understand you, but knowing that you always try to do the wrong thing, I get what you try to imply, that I have worked for some guys
that some people say were bad people.
Castillos del Mar that belong to Juan Ernesto Corona Flores, Corona Plaza hotels owner; well, he was a businessman with legal business, his brother
was the CANACO president and a very respected Tijuana businessman also; some say he had mafia connections, but that is because his name is the same as
one of the CAF cartel family members; Corona is a very common Mexican name so it is not extraordinary and if you want that kind of misguiding
connections, my name Rafael Muñoz and it was also the name for the Eastern Mexico drug lord, only his second name was Talavera and mine is Martinez,
we had absolutely no family connections, at least I think so.
If you mean it because I took the case for El Oasis that supposedly belonged to El Caballo, one of the CAF members, I have to tell you that my
technical team took it to help Lic. Ballin, a very respected Baja attorney who sold that property and being pressed to demonstrate that it was his
property, we took the case and very few people may say something bad about him, because he was the Political master mind behind every Baja governor,
from the first to Roberto de la Madrid and when he went out of that position PRI political party lost the Estate; so I have nothing to hide.
If you mean CFE, that is the Federal government and you do not mean they are crooked? Do you? Well, maybe a little but not in the way you imply.
But, so you can explain yourself why I took all those cases, I took them because all of them are the same against Ejido Mazatlan as Playa Encantada
wrongly known as La Joya del Mar; there I honed my then legal thesis and turned them in to court tasted legal true that will be used against La Joya
del Mar very soon and I mean:
The Ejido Mazatlan does not have any land.
The Ejido Maztlan had a virtual execution, meaning no execution and meaning they received no land.
La Joya del Mar is in National Land
All the Technical works that supposedly describe Ejido Mazatlan are wrong technically; meaning the Ejido Mazatlan does not have a single valid
technical work.
The whole land strip from Rosarito to Punta Banda in Ensenada is National Land, pending to be legalized, no private property exists there, but a few
exceptions already with National land title.
Also I do not see the Sea turtle connection on your implied question???
Jessy the cooky liar, you just look more and more desperate every day, you lack any kind of argument or even intelligence; please ask your bosses the
turtle killers and drug dealers to please send us a better advocate, you do not challenge us anymore.
[Edited on 7-14-2010 by ramuma53]
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ELINVESTIG8R
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Location: Southern California
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Jesse I do support whole heartedly the documents Rafael provided and that is all I have said I support. Of course we all have at least one skeleton or
another in our collective closest even you must have one or two. Please expound and give us the Who, What, Where, When, Why and How of what you meant
in your above post. Are you saying that Rafael Munoz represented someone of an unsavory character as an attorney, which happens every day around the
world, or are you saying Rafael is in bed with criminals? Those are two distinct matters. Can you please clarify to which one you are referring? Thank
you
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burnrope
Nomad
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This thread should have enough postings to make it eligible for it's own forum.
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64852
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
Member Is Online
Mood: Have Baja Fever
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Tehag started this thread because of a reported turtle law being broken... Interesting how it was used by ramuma53 to tar and feather two hard working
people who actually do something nice for travelers of Hwy. 1.
Go back to Page 1 and read the start of this thread... You will see it was Baja & Back who first made the connection that Muñoz would make this up
or cause this to be used to hurt Mark and Olivia.
Is cooking some 'illegal food' really a high crime worthy of jail time and all this public harassment... seriously? A fine is certainly normal for
this. From turtle being cooked by a non-employee to drug trafficing to property laws to ??? Muñoz seems to be using some of you to continue HIS crimes
against Mark and Olivia. If you want to boycott the restaurant, fine... but don't help this very un-amigo-like person to continue to poison the
reputation of hard working business people who many Nomads have met and enjoyed... at least have the fortitude to meet Muñoz and talk with him
in-persom before you become his aid ... IMO.
Go back to page 1... the beginning...
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KAT54
Nomad
Posts: 263
Registered: 3-7-2006
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He FORGED the deed?
He is claiming private property all over?
He fenced and took over private property?
ELINVESTIG8R has a 8 year old mentality?
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wessongroup
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 21152
Registered: 8-9-2009
Location: Mission Viejo
Member Is Offline
Mood: Suicide Hot line ... please hold
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| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
Tehag started this thread because of a reported turtle law being broken... Interesting how it was used by ramuma53 to tar and feather two hard working
people who actually do something nice for travelers of Hwy. 1.
Go back to Page 1 and read the start of this thread... You will see it was Baja & Back who first made the connection that Muñoz would make this up
or cause this to be used to hurt Mark and Olivia.
Is cooking some 'illegal food' really a high crime worthy of jail time and all this public harassment... seriously? A fine is certainly normal for
this. From turtle being cooked by a non-employee to drug trafficing to property laws to ??? Muñoz seems to be using some of you to continue HIS crimes
against Mark and Olivia. If you want to boycott the restaurant, fine... but don't help this very un-amigo-like person to continue to poison the
reputation of hard working business people who many Nomads have met and enjoyed... at least have the fortitude to meet Muñoz and talk with him
in-persom before you become his aid ... IMO.
Go back to page 1... the beginning... |
Well, I'm glad you finally did... as that was what I posted
| Quote: | Originally posted by wessongroup
| Quote: | Originally posted by Skipjack Joe
| Quote: | Originally posted by wessongroup
Not a clue why one would have these responses to Mr. Munoz’s submission to official documentation, which in fact prove his position, at this time.
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A. Mr Munoz publicly accuses Marc and Olivia of drug trafficking and destruction of endangered animals.
B. Mr Munoz provides documents of his real estate ownership as some sort of proof in his case.
What does one have to do with other?
Are we to conclude that because M&O lost their land dispute (if they did) with Mr Munoz they are also guilty of the above crimes?
What documentation are you looking for M&O to provide?
Shouldn't the accuser provide documentation for the crime he's accusing? And not the other way around?
I have to admit that my initial reaction to the display of official documents were "What on earth ...?". But apparently a couple of nomads found them
to be pertinent to this case. The only thing they show, in my opinion, is that there is a verry strong likelihood that Mr Munoz has alterior motives
that the criminal accusations of M&O stick.
I have no legal background, but aren't those documents the sort of thing a judge would forbid as inadmissable evidence in a court of law because they
have nothing to do with the case in hand and tend to bias the jury? Isn't that in fact what Mr Munoz is trying to do with the reader?
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For a start... ANY documentation !!!!
As for the other... here is a post dated 4-13-2009 @ 09:59 on the very first page of this thread which "brings up" Mr. Munoz's name and property
stealing ... FIRST!!! and was put up by Baja&Back
Barry & Vanda
Baja and Back RV Tours
Vancouver BC Canada / Baja
http://bajaandback.com
This is a quote from the Baja&Back post
"FYI: The guy posting at Bajaforums as "San Buenaventura" is Munoz himself, the person who is trying to steal miles of beachfront in Concepcion by
invading and fencing it. He has had a running battle with Mark & Olivia for years. I wouldn't be surprised if he planted the turtle evidence on
them, considering his black reputation.
He also sent emails out to baja caravan companies, including us, that we have to pay HIM next year to stay on Bahia Concepcion beaches! I will post
his email on this forum when I have replied.
Look for this snake lawyer to show up on Nomads forum soon ..." (searched this forum and Bajaforums for this poster, no results)
In the previous posts on the first page, there is no mention of land and/or Mr Munoz being involved until this post...
So please explain, how one concludes the issue of land ownership was started on THIS thread by Mr. Munoz?
[Edited on 7-11-2010 by wessongroup] |
Again, the use of hearsay, conjecture and unsupported statements don't do much for me, in a review of a dispute...
Will again ask, where is the "documentation" to support these acusation made by this individual and/or others? including what knowledge this person
has related to the unsupported allegation of "planting" the turtle meat !!!.....
Also the documentation to support Kate54's statements which are followed by a question mark, as to deflect arguments about supporting the statements
made, as if the question marks make some real difference in the intent....
One other thing, I spent some time.. copying all of the posts made by the posters that goes by the "handle" of ramuma53 ... if you have not read these
posts, I would suggest you should.. as I did not find these posts to be "evil", unsupported, rather attempts to explaining current legal requirements
to "owning" land in the Federal Zone, plus insight into the "Political" reality which exist dealing with same, with an underlying emphasis on
environmental protection of resources of Mexico.
posted on 7-13-2010 at 10:23 PM page 80
If one does not think there are politics involved in "zoning", "land use", resource development, and the Law Governing same.. then we have a very
large disconnect .... it is call Society
As for coming to the "aid" of this individual... I don't believe he or she needs my help at all.... appear to be doing just fine...
My only intent was to try and get this thread way from he said she said.. and into a fact based discussion. With the ultimate goal of allowing all
facts to be laid out to be reviewed and to be found true and correct or in fact fraudulent and dismissed from the discussion.
Thus allowing a final determination to be arrived at... at some point in time... the other was not going anywhere...
Some have not seen a Naval Gunboat down here policing drug runners.. have seen these guys a few times off the coast in the Descanso Bay.. this was the
first time we saw them.. they were anchored there for 5 days, after cigarette boats were making runs from La Salina to Popotalo/Rosarito
[Edited on 7-15-2010 by wessongroup]
[Edited on 7-15-2010 by wessongroup]
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ramuma53
Banned
Posts: 793
Registered: 2-27-2003
Location: Mulege B.C.S. Mexico
Member Is Offline
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Kat54 the new Jesse the cookie liar
Nice to see your infantile arguments, please try to do it better that the cookie liar, I know now you are liar too, but you need to be at least as
active and creative as him or at least a kooky to make it more interesting.
If ELINVETIGA8R has an 8 year old mentality, where do that let you be, an spermatozoid? and a very young and mentally unable too.
David K
Do that mean, you do not care about turtle killings, you are the kind that kills a baby seal without a further thought, only thinking about the buck
you are going to get for that fur???? Certainly we do not need more like you.
But I agree they are hard working guys, unloading a drug boat is not easy, more at 3 AM and with the army on your heals and after that spend the next
day paying all those policemen who come to collect.
But after that, the nice part comes, days and days of drugs and alcohol to make your brain stupid and she has done it for such a long time with people
like you, so much, she is now up forever and a shadow of the beautiful lady she was in the past.
Narc, he has been a stupid from the start, you cannot blame the drugs and do not think I do not say this to his face, just ask him how many times I
have done it and he has ran like a rabbit; he is known animal killer, a burglar and a vandal also and those are not insults, those are known
adjectives he has with the police and Mexican authorities, but don’t worry he has been trying to become better, something like a killer, only he has
no balls.
Remember, going in to the drug industry is easy, you live well for a few years and then you are dead or in jail, the only question is when and which
option; it has happened a lot, it is only a matter of time and when you become known and your business is a public matter, the end is near.
Some get smart and go out, but only a few, most go in to the drug business because they not very smart to start, so they do not recognize the signs;
this looks like one of those cases.
Just wait and see, some bajanomads even have suggested to make a movie out of this, we can invite you, Jessy the cooky liar and Kat54 as some of the
bad guys, what do you think???? Would you do the part????? Say yes, it will be perfect for you.
Well that is if you think at all.
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Skipjack Joe
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8084
Registered: 7-12-2004
Location: Bahia Asuncion
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Mr. Wesson,
What's the point of writing anything when you just keep ignoring it and continue pursuing your own path?
For whatever reason, everyone seems to be entrenched in their viewpoints and any further exchange is wasted effort.
In the end we all need to get along with one another on this board in the future and I refuse to get angry and say something which will affect that
(with you and others as well).
Already we are being called liars and cowards for simply not recognizing the 'obvious evidence'. Who needs that?
If you think Mr Munoz is an impartial participant in this entire thing who. like the rest of us, simply wants justice served then you are welcome to
your opinion. I don't share it. And I find the documents irrelevant. For previously stated reasons.
Please let's get off the merry-go-round now.
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wessongroup
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 21152
Registered: 8-9-2009
Location: Mission Viejo
Member Is Offline
Mood: Suicide Hot line ... please hold
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Skipjack Joe
Mr. Wesson,
What's the point of writing anything when you just keep ignoring it and continue pursuing your own path?
For whatever reason, everyone seems to be entrenched in their viewpoints and any further exchange is wasted effort.
In the end we all need to get along with one another on this board in the future and I refuse to get angry and say something which will affect that
(with you and others as well).
Already we are being called liars and cowards for simply not recognizing the 'obvious evidence'. Who needs that?
If you think Mr Munoz is an impartial participant in this entire thing who. like the rest of us, simply wants justice served then you are welcome to
your opinion. I don't share it. And I find the documents irrelevant. For previously stated reasons.
Please let's get off the merry-go-round now. |
Joe,
Where exactly were YOU called a liar and/or a coward?
Again, please support your statement, give me the link where this occurred.. I know that I have not called you a liar or a coward.. to the best of my
knowledge, I don't even know you..
For you to dismiss the need to document as irrelevant.. is of course your own business.. it however does not hold up under scrutiny ... hence the
reason for the need to document what events have occurred.... it's called due process...
It would appear that you do not feel that due process is necessary .....
I for one, would not like to live in any place like what you are describing.. As if one does not agree with your position.. then they are
automatically wrong, and cannot PROVE themselves innocent, cuz documentation (evidence) doesn't mean anything.. and reading the whole case is to time
consuming..
I have asked for the same ground rules for both parties.. if someone says.. that X happened... then support it with a witness, a written statement
obtained through credible sources.. along with any and all documents which will prove their case
As for the innocent not having to provide any evidence to support their side of the story.... I find that really quite hard to understand.
I do not reject evidence, I do reject "posts" on an internet bulletin board where people do not even identify themselves with there true name, email
addresses, phone numbers, pictures et al...
I'm not afraid to put up my ugly mug, and my wife's... my dogs.. Where I live .. Hell I have a live camera.. you can watch the wife hang out the
clothes.. I wear Fruit of the Loom ..
I'm not really afraid of anything, getting old has that effect .... If someone comes by and shoots of stabs me.. or takes my personal possessions..
well, then it will happen... but, I don't live my life in fear, and I certainly don't live my life accusing someone of something without "EVIDENCE"...
Apparently it is no big in many folks book.... it is in mine...
Everyone deserves the same type of Law to protect themselves and others from accusations which are unsupported by fact .. I'm old school, but I'm not
into vigilantes yet...
Seems that is what we are talking about.. Law and its implementation in BCS
Sorry you feel, that my request for documentation to support one's statements is such a big deal... and I do not reject out of hand "posts" I have
only requested that when someone makes a statement about "what" happened, or "that" someone did something... is supported with something .... not just
talk..
I'm not sure you would feel the same way if the positions were reversed...
This is not intended as a means to start a fight, rather to bring one to a conclusion... through simple process called P.O.S.T
Wiley S
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64852
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
Member Is Online
Mood: Have Baja Fever
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Wesson, I know... but I was trying to use as few words as possible to get Nomads to do what you wanted (read the beginning)... I did that because if a
post is toooo loooong, people get glaze-eyed, and may not bother to read it, knowing they may fall asleep before getting to the end... so for me,
short, but sweet works.
Sr. Muñoz, to you this is not about turtle killings... you are here to try and do as much damage to Olivia and Mark as you can. Hoping to reduce their
business income and force them to leave so you can grab some more land.
Instead of wasting time on Nomad, start a turtle rescue project at your Bahia Concepcion hotel or other land. See the progect at Bahia de los Angeles
for an idea on what to do... It would be GREAT PR for you and a slap in the face to turtle eaters!
Some photos at the turtle project in Bahia de los Angeles... (oh, we love turtles and hope their population rebounds):
As for you, I don't want to be enemies... but you have said so much against Olivia and Mark, that an apology is in order in public, and then you would
have my support in your future turtle research project at Bahia Concepcion!
The ball is in your court!
Viva Baja!
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DianaT
Select Nomad
Posts: 10020
Registered: 12-17-2004
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
Wesson, I know... but I was trying to use as few words as possible to get Nomads to do what you wanted (read the beginning)... I did that because if a
post is toooo loooong, people get glaze-eyed, and may not bother to read it, knowing they may fall asleep before getting to the end... so for me,
short, but sweet works.
Sr. Muñoz, to you this is not about turtle killings... you are here to try and do as much damage to Olivia and Mark as you can. Hoping to reduce their
business income and force them to leave so you can grab some more land.
Instead of wasting time on Nomad, start a turtle rescue project at your Bahia Concepcion hotel or other land. See the progect at Bahia de los Angeles
for an idea on what to do... It would be GREAT PR for you and a slap in the face to turtle eaters!
Some photos at the turtle project in Bahia de los Angeles... (oh, we love turtles and hope their population rebounds):
As for you, I don't want to be enemies... but you have said so much against Olivia and Mark, that an apology is in order in public, and then you would
have my support in your future turtle research project at Bahia Concepcion!
The ball is in your court!
Viva Baja! |
You are aware, I am sure, that the Turtle Project at Bahia de Los Angeles is no longer and according to what we were told, when it ended all the
turtles were eaten. 
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