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ursidae69
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Posts: 275
Registered: 2-22-2004
Location: Youngsville, NM
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| Quote: | Originally posted by gringorio
This is just plain wrong. How can Graham have such little respect for wildlife? He claims to have had no choice, but he had plenty of choices that
would not have involved killing the rattlesnake. The first was to leave the rattlesnake alone. The second was to use a long stick and move it well
away from his camp. He has a better chance of being stung by a scorpion than to be bitten by a rattlesnake. His paranoid attitude toward
rattlesnakes has been apparent in all his writings. I would think that someone with so much experience in the desert would have a better
understanding and *respect* for desert animals.
From the description, the rattlesnake sounds like it was a Crotalus ruber, a Red Diamond Rattlesnake. Isla Angel de la Guarda is part of the
Islas del Golfo de California Biosphere Reserve, an ecologically unique and important group of islands. Populations of animals on islands are more
susceptible to extinction for many reasons: Limited resources, competition for resources, changing abundance of prey populations, and of course,
stochastic events like people killing every snake they see.
It seems to me that, while what Graham is doing is very interesting, in the long run his attitude is having a negative effect on the island and its
animals.
gringorio |
Have to agree with Gringorio here. It illegal to kill the wildlife on the islands according to the reserve's own rules, he is likey violating his
permit, if he obtained one like he is supposed to.
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Bajalero
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Registered: 11-24-2003
Location: todos santos/ rcho san diego
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| Quote: | Originally posted by gringorio
"Next morning with the wind moderating, and better able to appreciate the stunning beauty all around, I set off for an exploratory hike. Before I had
gone fifty yards I slid to an urgent stop, my leading foot was inches from a five-foot-long pinkish rattlesnake. As it was so close to my camp I had
no choice, I had to kill it. A single rock throw smashed its neck immediately behind its head." - G.M.
This is just plain wrong. How can Graham have such little respect for wildlife? He claims to have had no choice, but he had plenty of choices that
would not have involved killing the rattlesnake. The first was to leave the rattlesnake alone. The second was to use a long stick and move it well
away from his camp. He has a better chance of being stung by a scorpion than to be bitten by a rattlesnake. His paranoid attitude toward
rattlesnakes has been apparent in all his writings. I would think that someone with so much experience in the desert would have a better
understanding and *respect* for desert animals.
From the description, the rattlesnake sounds like it was a Crotalus ruber, a Red Diamond Rattlesnake. Isla Angel de la Guarda is part of the
Islas del Golfo de California Biosphere Reserve, an ecologically unique and important group of islands. Populations of animals on islands are more
susceptible to extinction for many reasons: Limited resources, competition for resources, changing abundance of prey populations, and of course,
stochastic events like people killing every snake they see.
It seems to me that, while what Graham is doing is very interesting, in the long run his attitude is having a negative effect on the island and its
animals.
gringorio |
I agree 100% Gringorio - it is absolutely wrong and propagates further destruction and ignorance .
What a freakin harebrained thing to do .
Murdering a snake to make a buck with another two bit story is what it comes down to imo. He's got nothing better to do than wander around a rock in
the middle of the SOC for a month and he couldn't find the time to relocate the snake?
That's pretty lame - but I'm sure one of the self righteous baja aficionados will spew more in defense of his apparently senseless actions.
Hell, someone hurry up and get the GPS waypoint linked so all the tourist can find their way to where the deed was done.
The way it's going though , in 10 more years the whole of baja will look like Rosarito and all the attitudes to go with it will already be in place.
Lero
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Barry A.
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Registered: 11-30-2003
Location: Redding, Northern CA
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----and I am sure that all you folks-------
-------that have passed judgement on Graham's actions routinely let termites and blackwidows run around your house---------?
We all have different perspectives----it is called "tolerance" when we recognize that.
Barry
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burro bob
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Location: Poblado del Ejido Plan National Agrario
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Barry A.
Graham is not at home he is on an ecological protected island.
The red diamond rattler is one of the least agressive snakes I have ever come across. I came across one once while hiking at the upper end of canyon
cajon. He was sunning himself on a rock I needed to use to bypass a waterfall. I used my hiking stick to toss him about 10 feet down slope. Upon
landing he coiled up and rattled for about 3 seconds, then he streatched out and went back to sunning himself.
Yes, I have also killed a red diamond that was in my yard at El Dorado. Relocating him would only have moved him to someone else's yard.
It's not so much that he killed a snake but where he did it.
burro bob
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Barry A.
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Location: Redding, Northern CA
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Burro Bob-----
I would not have killed the snake, either, but I know that Graham is terrified of rattle snakes. Does this excuse it?? NO. but I believe that we
should at least understand where Graham is coming from, and not be so quick to judge him.
By the way, (and most don't know this) snakes bruise very easily, and "throwing" a snake almost always does mortal damage to any snake, the way I
understand it.
I personally have been "hit" twice by rattlers, both times on my boot, so was not damaged. But it is rather unsettleing to be struck by a rattler, and
the self defense urge comes into play instantly. In my case, neither of the snakes were killed, but I came very, very close. Both times were in knee
high grass, and I never saw the snakes until it was too late.
Your point about the "wildlife preserve" is well taken, and the most disturbing about Graham's actions, but I still don't think that we have to
"attack" Graham for his instinctual reactions. He does need to reconsider his "fears", and get a handle on them, I agree. And he does have to take
seriously where he is-----and the restrictions on human impact.
Actually, I am surprised that he even mentioned the snake episode. He must have known the uproar it would cause.
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eetdrt88
Senior Nomad
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Registered: 2-20-2005
Location: Az/Ca/Baja
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i'll have more respect...
for some of these peoples opinions when they go live on a deserted island for months at a time with very little supplies...then when they send in a
report about encountering a rattlesnake close to camp and just letting it be or relocating I will gladly applaud them...
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Skipjack Joe
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Location: Bahia Asuncion
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One of the disturbing aspects of this is that it was Graham that did this. It wasn't some city dwelling tourist that seldom leaves a paved sidewalk
and comes across unexpectedly upon this creature. This comes from a man lauded for his treks across the wild landscape of the baja desert. A man in
tune with all aspects of the wilderness. A man who has built a reputation of understanding and appreciating all of baja's primitive aspects. So he
comes across one of it's 'dangerous' inhabitants and bangs it over the head. Strange.
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Pompano
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Location: Bay of Conception and Up North
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Rattlers are a spooky business and you never how you will react at the moment of meeting one suddenly or having some living in close contact.
I grew up near White Butte, ND which has an unusual concentration of prairie rattlesnakes.. (Crotalus viridis). There are so many that the area was
demoted from the list of state parks a few years back. Wouldn't do to have the tourists from Hoboken bitten.
People like to entertain the thought of climbing White Butte, because it is the highest point in North Dakota..at a whopping 3506 ft!!....but most
lose interest when told about the heavy snake populations there. Even today few locals climb the butte because of a high probability of encountering
a few rattlers..and we don't like to kill them unless necessary so we don't aggravate or intrude on them. Having said that, I don't think I would
like to share a small space with something that will make me sick as a dog..or worse. Snakes don't hunt humans, naturally, but they do hunt in human
areas because of the mice that are attracted to human areas...camps or houses, it is all the same to a mouse..and to the rattler. I suspect bird eggs
and small chicks on the island in question are also on the snake's menu. Perhaps Graham is near the rattler's hunt routes ...or he is attracting some
vermin. Clean that place up, Graham! A clean camp is a healthy camp..and hopefully, snake-free.
I have had to kill exactly three rattlers in Baja Sur over the last 30-odd years...but have encountered dozens. All three killed posed a human death
risk and the rattlers had to go. One I found inside the house in the food pantry...poised to strike. A Siamese cat had it cornered. Killed it with
the broom handle...rather unglamorous, but neither I nor the snake cared what I used. The cat was okay with it, too. Two others crawled back into
our desert camps...each coming back twice after being taken some distance away...each once too often. Don't kid yourself, you will batter that
crawling, fanged guy to a pulp if he slithers over your thigh in the bedroll.
Don't know what circumstances prompted Graham to kill that island rattler, but I suspect he was afraid for his life. Right or wrong, he is alive and
the rattler is dead. Survival of the one who holds the rock. Blame evolution and the opposing thumb.
I do what the voices in my tackle box tell me.
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KurtG
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If you read Graham's earlier books it is clear that he dines on the rattlers that he has killed. Personally I don't see a lot of difference between
killing and eating a fish or killing and eating a snake. I have done both and while I prefer fish the rattler wasn't bad!
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bajalera
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Location: Santa Maria CA
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Pompano, that broomstick killing was a good story. Why don't you get yourself marooned somewhere & write a book about it?
\"Very few things happen at the right time, and the rest never happen at all. The conscientious historian will correct these defects.\" -
Mark Twain
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Pompano
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I agree KurtG...rattler as a entree ain't that bad. Firm white meat...wonder how much it would affect my cholestrol level? Plus you have an
attractive belt or hat band, right Two Dogs?
I do what the voices in my tackle box tell me.
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Pompano
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Location: Bay of Conception and Up North
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bajalera....I know some islands of mystery, but I would need a secretary?....my handwriting is horrible.
I do what the voices in my tackle box tell me.
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Pompano
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Location: Bay of Conception and Up North
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I think I was on this island once upon a time.......
An American, an Australian and an Irishman were stranded on an island for several days. One day a bottle washed ashore and when they picked it up, a
genie rushed out.
Oh masters, he said. For releasing me from this bottle you will each have one wish.
The American said: I wish to be surrounded by a bevy of beautiful girls in Waikiki beach. Whoosh, the American was gone to Hawaii.
The Australian said: I wish to be in a casino in the Australian Gold Coast. Whoosh, and off he went.
The Irishman could not decide what he wanted. After a long time, he said: Gee, it's very lonely here on this island. I wish my friends were back here!
I do what the voices in my tackle box tell me.
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Skipjack Joe
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Location: Bahia Asuncion
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I once ate a rattlesnake roadkill in New Mexico, not too far from Santa Fe. I'm ashamed to admit that I was worried at the time that somehow some of
the venom would enter my system and make me real sick.
Isn't that silly?
BTW, it tasted like frog legs (which tasted like chicken).
[Edited on 3-11-2006 by Skipjack Joe]
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Baja Bernie
`Normal` Nomad Correspondent
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Splat
Well, I was about to launch into my encounter with...........but that is another story. I totally agree with Pompano and believe that Graham did what
he felt was necessary for his own safety.
I rather doubt that he will come off the island with a new hat band.
My smidgen of a claim to fame is that I have had so many really good friends. By Bernie Swaim December 2007
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Sharksbaja
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Snake bias
Having been bitten and on the brink of death I can assure you, you don't want a similar scenario far from help. Growing up in an area full of Western
Diamondbacks I was never worried too much and just stayed clear. That all changed though and after my near-fatal encounter I had serious after
effects, mainly psycological. I would have spells of paranoia for years whereas common scratch from a twig would bring on horrible thoughts and
convince me that I got bitten again. You see, the bite felt just like that, a scratch.
I felt for many years that the only good rattlesnake was a dead one.
So you see, I was tramatized early on.
Later on while living on Catalina I was regularily summonded to dispose of rattlesnakes which had found their way into the dorms or cafeteria. AS per
my boss' order I dispatched of them in a promt and humane way.
Nowdays though I feel different and that applies to many living things. I don't hunt anymore and I don't kill snakes anymore. I've come to realize
their importance and place on this planet. This does not apply in all cases but I feel there is a reason to NOT harm or kill animals, I won't.
AS far as Graham goes, I understand the fear of rattlesnakes completely, but with so many options I feel he used poor judgement. Living in remote
places as such requires the ackknowledgement of the snakes habitat and how to coexist.
Personally, I'd fear the smugglers more than that of the snakes. You can't just cut off their heads and cook em up.......say, why did he not eat the
thing. Heck, I eat every fish I kill. Unless of course I am offering it up as trade for a big one.
DON\'T SQUINT! Give yer eyes a break!
Try holding down [control] key and toggle the [+ and -] keys
Viva Mulege!
Nomads\' Sunsets
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Oso
Ultra Nomad
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Location: on da border
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He didn't say he didn't eat it. From his previous accounts, I'd bet he did. When in the desert away from people, I try to leave them alone. But, I
have killed a couple. The last one was a small sidewinder in my neighbor's yard. The head of the household wasn't home, the lady was freaking out,
scared for her kids and I didn't have a convenient means of "transporting" it elsewhere. Before that was many years ago at a rest stop on I-8 near
Gila Bend. I got it starting back into its burrow about 10 feet from the picnic tables. Kids, barefoot kids, are around that place all the time.
Yes they are noble creatures (How many deadly creatures warn you to back off?) and important to their ecologies- rodent control etc. But, there is a
difference between sensitivity and stupidity. Lighten up on Graham. He had his reasons.
BTW, if anyone has ever read my "Huivulai" story, they know I definitely prefer to leave them as masters of their domain. It's only when our
prolonged proximity occurs that Darwinism prevails.
[Edited on 3-11-2006 by Oso]
All my childhood I wanted to be older. Now I\'m older and this chitn sucks.
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ursidae69
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Registered: 2-22-2004
Location: Youngsville, NM
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One last comment on the rattlesnake kill. The real issue here is the fact that these islands, and the wildlife on them, are protected, period. When
I visited a few of the islands around BOLA in March 05, I had to aquire a permit. My friends and I caught a few of the large chuckwallas that live
there to get a good look at them and we were approached by a ranger. I was with 3 herpetologists and the ranger gave us a break, but warned us at the
wildlife was off-limits to touch.
If someone is on the mainland, and is in fear of their life of a rattlesnake in camp, I totally understand you killing it. I'd suggest getting over
your fears and learn how to safely handle them for the next encounter, but I understand. But Graham sells himself as some self-made naturalist and
killing wildlife because you don't understand it means he is not much of a naturalist afterall.
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Pompano
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Location: Bay of Conception and Up North
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As kids on the ranch, we used to run our bikes over the rattlers and when they bit the tires and got their fangs stuck, we had ready made noisemaker
whips...whopp!-whopp!-whopp!....much better than the cheap plastic kinds. Our legs would get all banged up, though.
Now if you believe that I have a bridge in New York I would like to talk to you about.
I guess Graham has a dead rattler to make into...food or...something? BTW..did you know wheat plants show preceptable responses when swathed and
harvested? It's true, I just read about it in an old Scientific American. Egads, I can hear/imagine millions of tiny screams out there in the grain
fields. Holy cow, now I will feel some guilt when eating my Wheaties, ..the Breakfast of Yesteryear's Champions (today it's 2 helpings of steroids.)
Who house is the next PETA meeting at? Serving any audible snacks? Have I had too much coffee?
I do what the voices in my tackle box tell me.
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ursidae69
Nomad
Posts: 275
Registered: 2-22-2004
Location: Youngsville, NM
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Pompano
Who house is the next PETA meeting at? Serving any audible snacks? Have I had too much coffee? |
Is that directed at me??  Hope not, I just finsihed a nice plate of elk that
I helped kill and butcher, doubt PETA will like me and they have nothing to do with what I talked about. 
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