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djh
Senior Nomad
Posts: 936
Registered: 1-2-2005
Location: Earth mostly. Loreto, N. ID, Big Island
Member Is Offline
Mood: Mellow fellow, plays a yellow cello...
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Never doubt....
I've read these posts, most of them civil. I figured to stay out of it, but I do want to share a little bit, then I'll shut up and read again....
"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed people can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has." M.M.
Conscience... Everyone's is a bit different. COMMITTED, ACTIVE people of conscience have brought about most of the changes in human history that have
kept civilization at least marginally CIVIL.
I met Capt. Paul Watson in Eugene, OR at an Environmental Law Conference about 20+ years ago.... we served on a panel together. I spent part of an
afternoon with him and a few mutual friends. Paul struck me as a man of conscience, conviction, and commitment. His ACTIONS are not just "theories"
or armchair quarterbacking. His actions are congruent with his convictions and words. That to me is more respectable than all of the "he should...
YOU should....." judgements and adnoseum dissecting and political interjections and blame.....
He IS enforcing International Law where other countries and their enforcement agencies refuse to. He HAS spent time incarcerated for his actions, but
has always been released because of his defense of those international laws that he was enforcing (the international ban on whaling, eh?). BTW
Maratime law is some of the oldest law - and was one of the first duties of our own government
If YOU believe LAWS must be changed, great, get up and work on that, eh? Far too easy to say, "HE should do this or that.". BTW, Ghandi broke lots of
laws, as did many other of humankind's most positively influential and pivotal individuals
Although I have spent many years working in other related environmental arenas and using different approaches, I understand PW's passion and
commitment..... And I'll bet most of YOU who have swam, snorkeled / dived with, or just been in a panga - looking into the eye of a Grey Whale - or
any other aquatic mamal UNDERSTAND what drives PW.
No doubt, he is an intense guy.... He called Greenpeace "Environmental Cookie Sale Group...". I really don't care about his ego. I care about his
actions and the resultant changes he has brought about.... BTW, during our afternoon discussion, PW told us that when he sunk the Norwegian whaling
fleet - in port, at dock, he boarded the scuttled ships and told EVERY crewmember on board that they must leave the ship immediately, as their vessel
was already scuttled and sinking.... saving crews' (the "enemy's" ??) lives.
Talk is cheap.
Do you know why talk is cheap.....?
Simple economics..... SUPPLY is so much greater than DEMAND. 
djh
Its all just stuff and some numbers.
A day spent sailing isn\'t deducted from one\'s life.
Peace, Love, and Music
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bigmike58
Nomad
Posts: 286
Registered: 1-20-2012
Location: Homeland CA/Mulege
Member Is Offline
Mood: Fish on!
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Cypress
At one time most of the world's scientist's also thought that the world was flat. |
LOL...
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motoged
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6481
Registered: 7-31-2006
Location: Kamloops, BC
Member Is Offline
Mood: Gettin' Better
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| Quote: | Originally posted by mtgoat666
if god had meant man to live in the desert, he would have put water in the desert!!!!!! |
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Yep....and fish/ camarone taco stands along the streets....Tecate in Cuomos....
Don't believe everything you think....
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bajaguy
Elite Nomad
Posts: 9247
Registered: 9-16-2003
Location: Carson City, NV/Ensenada - Baja Country Club
Member Is Offline
Mood: must be 5 O'clock somewhere in Baja
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Perfect solution
| Quote: | Originally posted by mtgoat666
if god had meant man to live in the desert, he would have put water in the desert!!!!!! |
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vN7ehccspao
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Mexitron
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3397
Registered: 9-21-2003
Location: Fort Worth, Texas
Member Is Offline
Mood: Happy!
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Gnukid:
"The issue here is there is not a threat from CO2, temperature or population. Yet the promoters of global catastrophe, Paul Ehrlich, Mexitron,
SkipJack, Goat, John Holdren and the like are busy predicting worldwide catastrophe that has not been evidenced."
Um, how did you make the leap from my pointing out your data set was way out of date to calling me a promoter of global catastrophe?
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gnukid
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4411
Registered: 7-2-2006
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Here is a peer reviewed study that was recently published that shows that over the the past 2000 years there is no evidence of a connection between
man made green house gasses and global temperature. More so, there are long term cycles that affect the atmosphere which are forces that drive
temperature.
Of course, science is an on going process, without 'consensus' that simply strives to describe our experience on earth.
If you are interested:
http://www.nature.com/nclimate/journal/vaop/ncurrent/full/nc...
http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sheppard/2012/07/11/new-st...
Summary:
"In the IPCC view, the planet was cooler during Roman times and the medieval warm spell. Overall the temperature is headed up - perhaps wildly up,
according to the famous/infamous "hockey stick" graph.
The new study indicates that that's quite wrong, with the current warming less serious than the Romans and others since have seen - and the overall
trend actually down by a noticeable 0.3°C per millennium, which the scientists believe is probably down to gradual long-term shifts in the position of
the Sun and the Earth's path around it."
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Mexitron
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3397
Registered: 9-21-2003
Location: Fort Worth, Texas
Member Is Offline
Mood: Happy!
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| Quote: | Originally posted by gnukid
Here is a peer reviewed study that was recently published that shows that over the the past 2000 years there is no evidence of a connection between
man made green house gasses and global temperature. More so, there are long term cycles that affect the atmosphere which are forces that drive
temperature.
Of course, science is an on going process, without 'consensus' that simply strives to describe our experience on earth.
If you are interested:
http://www.nature.com/nclimate/journal/vaop/ncurrent/full/nc...
http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sheppard/2012/07/11/new-st...
Summary:
"In the IPCC view, the planet was cooler during Roman times and the medieval warm spell. Overall the temperature is headed up - perhaps wildly up,
according to the famous/infamous "hockey stick" graph.
The new study indicates that that's quite wrong, with the current warming less serious than the Romans and others since have seen - and the overall
trend actually down by a noticeable 0.3°C per millennium, which the scientists believe is probably down to gradual long-term shifts in the position of
the Sun and the Earth's path around it." |
The article in Nature is interesting, and good news if its true, yet it is only one of hundreds of studies and is based on tree rings in one area,
then projected out via climate models. We all know that climate change---if its actually happening---will see some areas get warmer while others may
cool down. Still, good article to keep in mind.
Your second link however exposes a political motive----says this about the author:
"Noel Sheppard is the Associate Editor of NewsBusters as well as a small business owner residing in Northern California. He is also a contributing
writer to Fox Forum and the Washington Examiner."
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Skipjack Joe
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8088
Registered: 7-12-2004
Location: Bahia Asuncion
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Here's an article published in 'Science', which is just as reputable as 'Nature', that states the opposite:
Recent Warming Reverses Long-Term Arctic Cooling
I see little value in providing such links on nomads because each nomad provides the link that supports his case and ignores the ones that contradict
it.
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mtgoat666
Select Nomad
Posts: 19918
Registered: 9-16-2006
Location: San Diego
Member Is Offline
Mood: Hot n spicy
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newkid: your "summary" is partisan BS spin!!!!!!!!!!
| Quote: | Originally posted by gnukid
Summary:
"In the IPCC view, the planet was cooler during Roman times and the medieval warm spell. Overall the temperature is headed up - perhaps wildly up,
according to the famous/infamous "hockey stick" graph.
The new study indicates that that's quite wrong, with the current warming less serious than the Romans and others since have seen - and the overall
trend actually down by a noticeable 0.3°C per millennium, which the scientists believe is probably down to gradual long-term shifts in the position of
the Sun and the Earth's path around it." |
newkid:
your summary is partisan BS spin. here is astract of Nature article:
Solar insolation changes, resulting from long-term oscillations of orbital configurations1, are an important driver of Holocene climate2, 3. The
forcing is substantial over the past 2,000 years, up to four times as large as the 1.6 W m−2 net anthropogenic forcing since 1750
(ref. 4), but the trend varies considerably over time, space and with season5. Using numerous high-latitude proxy records, slow orbital changes have
recently been shown6 to gradually force boreal summer temperature cooling over the common era. Here, we present new evidence based on maximum latewood
density data from northern Scandinavia, indicating that this cooling trend was stronger (−0.31 °C per 1,000 years, ±0.03 °C)
than previously reported, and demonstrate that this signature is missing in published tree-ring proxy records. The long-term trend now revealed in
maximum latewood density data is in line with coupled general circulation models7, 8 indicating albedo-driven feedback mechanisms and substantial
summer cooling over the past two millennia in northern boreal and Arctic latitudes. These findings, together with the missing orbital signature in
published dendrochronological records, suggest that large-scale near-surface air-temperature reconstructions9, 10, 11, 12, 13 relying on tree-ring
data may underestimate pre-instrumental temperatures including warmth during Medieval and Roman times.
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motoged
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6481
Registered: 7-31-2006
Location: Kamloops, BC
Member Is Offline
Mood: Gettin' Better
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Uhhhh, his thread is NOT about climate change....
Don't believe everything you think....
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mtgoat666
Select Nomad
Posts: 19918
Registered: 9-16-2006
Location: San Diego
Member Is Offline
Mood: Hot n spicy
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| Quote: | Originally posted by motoged
Uhhhh, his thread is NOT about climate change.... |
save the whales!
sea shepherd is great organization!
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woody with a view
PITA Nomad
Posts: 15939
Registered: 11-8-2004
Location: Looking at the Coronado Islands
Member Is Offline
Mood: Everchangin'
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| Quote: | Originally posted by motoged
Uhhhh, his thread is NOT about climate change.... |
not yet, but a hijack is in the making......
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motoged
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6481
Registered: 7-31-2006
Location: Kamloops, BC
Member Is Offline
Mood: Gettin' Better
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It's been interesting....mostly a good conversation....and the hijack thing was inevitable.
Don't believe everything you think....
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woody with a view
PITA Nomad
Posts: 15939
Registered: 11-8-2004
Location: Looking at the Coronado Islands
Member Is Offline
Mood: Everchangin'
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save the whales, harpoon a fat dude....
[Edited on 7-11-2012 by woody with a view]
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