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ramuma53
Banned
Posts: 793
Registered: 2-27-2003
Location: Mulege B.C.S. Mexico
Member Is Offline
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Kat 54
Pani did not stole my property, he has no legal right to the property; property cannot be stolen because it is registered in several public
registries, not just one and he has not claimed possession to the land, he is not there at all nor does he has somebody who work for him there,
because the act of entering the property without the owner authorization is the crime not just saying he is the owner.
The criminal act would exist only if he tries to enter my property.
In the mean while, he is committing “intent to commit fraud” against unsuspecting Americans, but I do not think he will get away with it, now that
this is public.
I told you that it is as difficult to steal land in Mexico as it is in USA but our government does not have the same care to avoid that people pass as
false owners, but of course you need the American to think it is normal to go around normal procedures.
I do not think anyone have invested a penny, they are trying to get people who invest, but since I will not allow anyone inside my property to do any
technical work, they cannot do anything, but they for sure can take you to see the place, passing as tourist or visiting the beach.
Yes if somebody already invested, his money is gone, but you always can ask for your money back before they leave the place or just go to the police
and start a fraud criminal procedure just for the lack of F4 permit.
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ramuma53
Banned
Posts: 793
Registered: 2-27-2003
Location: Mulege B.C.S. Mexico
Member Is Offline
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Just by looking at the photos, it is evident, that it is a scam, to start, at the bottom, it say that the project can change without previous notice
and that is illegal, because that is the reason the F4 permit exist and need to be signed by the Governor, it is un modifiable and allow people, who
can from that point buy, to not be subjected to changes; F4 id the definitive development’s shape.
Clearly it is a scam.
It say that they have already sold 2 lots, but that is a normal way to generate sales and latter they may say they have only a coupe left.
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ramuma53
Banned
Posts: 793
Registered: 2-27-2003
Location: Mulege B.C.S. Mexico
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I just received an answer from Santa Rosalia Public registry and Cadastral office, no project has been authorized for that place, nor anyone has ever
presented one for authorization; they will start to see it as a scam intent and warn people.
Anyone interested check with the city councilman
[Edited on 7-17-2010 by ramuma53]
[Edited on 7-17-2010 by ramuma53]
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ramuma53
Banned
Posts: 793
Registered: 2-27-2003
Location: Mulege B.C.S. Mexico
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This email has just been sent.
NELLIE HUTCHISON
OWNER AND BROKER
Dorado Loreto
Mrs. Hutchinson, on Bajanomads the people just raised this to my attention http://forums.bajanomad.com/viewthread.php?tid=38204&pag... and since it is a scam, I ask you to suspend any offer on that property, please
check www.munoz-industries.com/proof.htm to see the legal property papers byt if I do not see the add disapear as soon as possible I will be obligated
to bring you to court as an accesory to commit fraud.
please contact me if you need more information because I have all kinds of proof of property coming out of Federal and Agrarian court.
Thank you for your attention and I will be checking on your webpage to see if the offer is dropped.
Rafael Muñoz Martinez
San Buenaventura Hotel Owner including the lot you show as on sale.
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64587
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
Member Is Offline
Mood: Have Baja Fever
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Diana, this is a lie: "But you are the self-proclaimed expert on ALL things Baja."
Provide the proof where I EVER said such a crazy thing. I will never live long enough to know all things Baja... and all things are far to vast for
anyone to have such knowledge. I only offer travel assistance and historic data of the peninsula as an interested person, not an expert.
Until then stop the personal attacks, they are insulting.
I have tried SO MUCH to be nice to you... Obviously, random acts of kindness don't have much meaning to you?
Since I have never seen that turtle eating story before YOU posted it, I simply asked where you got such info, and why has there been not outcry
here... period.
Our last time staying at Bahia de los Angeles was New Years weekend 2009, on our way to investigating the walls and sleeping circles that Choral
Pepper (on an Erle Stanley Gardner expedition) in 1966 photographed and believed was a lost mission project, depicted on a Jesuit 1757 map, but never
completed.
We came within 20 mils of Bahia de los Angeles last July, after a wonderful visit and tour of Mision San Borja with the most gracious host, Jose, and
some of his children. Jose and his family offer the finest of backcountry hospitality and great tour service to visit historic sites... Ever ride a
mule on the El Camino Real? Jose can make it happen...
Of course, being a nice person just doesn't always work for you... as we have seen here in the past. 
Oh well, I will probably keep being nice to you and just let others judge you by your insults to me, Jose, and others you wish to make enemies with.
You do take great photographs! 
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wessongroup
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 21152
Registered: 8-9-2009
Location: Mission Viejo
Member Is Offline
Mood: Suicide Hot line ... please hold
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Have been reading on Land Reform in Mexico, and found this to be a very interesting presentation of an issue which is part of Mexico and this thread
land:
Why Developing Countries Sabotage Economic Growth: Land Reform in Mexico
Land and how one gains possession of land was and/is a point which this thread has exposed with a great deal of feelings by many individuals
Would offer this for review and comments, writers credentials can be found at the bottom of the first page.
dated 5/14/2008
http://weblamp.princeton.edu/rppe/events/piepmay2009/papers/...
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ELINVESTIG8R
Select Nomad
Posts: 15882
Registered: 11-20-2007
Location: Southern California
Member Is Offline
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Rafael, super posts you have written thus far with respect to land issues in Mexico and Baja California in particular. Although I am not a land owner
in Baja and probably will not be I thank you very much for enlightening us here on Baja Nomad. You are a great source of knowledge in the area of
acquiring properties and many here could use your expertise. Keep the information flowing.
David
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DianaT
Select Nomad
Posts: 10020
Registered: 12-17-2004
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
Diana, this is a lie: "But you are the self-proclaimed expert on ALL things Baja."
Provide the proof where I EVER said such a crazy thing. I will never live long enough to know all things Baja... and all things are far to vast for
anyone to have such knowledge. I only offer travel assistance and historic data of the peninsula as an interested person, not an expert.
Until then stop the personal attacks, they are insulting.
I have tried SO MUCH to be nice to you... Obviously, random acts of kindness don't have much meaning to you?
Since I have never seen that turtle eating story before YOU posted it, I simply asked where you got such info, and why has there been not outcry
here... period.
Our last time staying at Bahia de los Angeles was New Years weekend 2009, on our way to investigating the walls and sleeping circles that Choral
Pepper (on an Erle Stanley Gardner expedition) in 1966 photographed and believed was a lost mission project, depicted on a Jesuit 1757 map, but never
completed.
We came within 20 mils of Bahia de los Angeles last July, after a wonderful visit and tour of Mision San Borja with the most gracious host, Jose, and
some of his children. Jose and his family offer the finest of backcountry hospitality and great tour service to visit historic sites... Ever ride a
mule on the El Camino Real? Jose can make it happen...
Of course, being a nice person just doesn't always work for you... as we have seen here in the past.
Oh well, I will probably keep being nice to you and just let others judge you by your insults to me, Jose, and others you wish to make enemies with.
You do take great photographs! |
You, of course, do not quote all what was said----once again, you are playing the whiny victim---I backed off from you completely, but once again you
started this crap by suggesting that I was making up stories---something you have done several times.
READ IT---
| Quote: | Originally posted by DianaT
| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
| Quote: | Originally posted by DianaT
You are aware, I am sure, that the Turtle Project at Bahia de Los Angeles is no longer and according to what we were told, when it ended all the
turtles were eaten. |
No, when was it reported and being such a fantastic story, why no multi-page outrage here on Nomad?
Even if true, why not encourage Muñoz to start one? |
Let's see---using words like "such a fantastic story" and :"Even if true"
are not asking, they are accusing someone of lying. My original response to you was simply asking you if you were aware that it was closed----but
since you were not, you start with the attack---
And now, why don't you get off the San Borja story---you were NOT there and you do not know what happened---what I reported was not an insult to Jose,
it was what happened----the kids were being pushed by the young ADULT son of Jose, the current woman tour guide and Jose's wife to ask for more and
more money----an unfortunate happening that does not lead to comfortable feelings.
If your experience was different, so be it. But get off your continual attack to say that what we experienced was not what happened and that we are
just trying to insult Jose. You have done this over and over about this and other things.
You are not a nice person---you only post comments that sound nice so that the next time you attack, you can say, oh, look at me, look at me, I am
such a nice person. You are more like the coiled snake just playing nice and waiting for the next opportunity to strike with your venom surrounded by
false honey. And it is not possible to insult you--
But this is off topic for the thread ---a thread where you have accused another person of lying when you know nothing about what happened; a similar
pattern for you.
Mr. Munoz, I apologize to you for this interruption. I still do not know for sure what all has happened in your land case and will keep an open mind.
We know people who very much like Mark and Olivia, but as I said before, just because some nomads like someone does not necessarily make them an
honest and ethical person. Still watching this one.
[Edited on 7-17-2010 by DianaT] |
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Sharksbaja
Elite Nomad
Posts: 5814
Registered: 9-7-2004
Location: Newport, Mulege B.C.S.
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
............... the walls and sleeping circles that Choral Pepper (on an Erle Stanley Gardner expedition) in 1966 photographed and believed was a lost
mission project, depicted on a Jesuit 1757 map, but never completed.
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Well well well. Very interesting.
Can you show us the map and info?
I guess you were wrong David,
THE PLACE IS SIGNIFICANT!
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hawaiicruz
Newbie
Posts: 10
Registered: 7-17-2010
Location: Big Island hawaii
Member Is Offline
Mood: Missing Mex
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Turtles?
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mtgoat666
Select Nomad
Posts: 17555
Registered: 9-16-2006
Location: San Diego
Member Is Offline
Mood: Hot n spicy
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| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
Oh well, I will probably keep being nice to you and just let others judge you by your insults to me, Jose, and others you wish to make enemies with.
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dk: she is much classier than you. you should give up and admit defeat. every time you try to battle with her, you lose and make yourself look bad.
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Bajatripper
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3147
Registered: 3-20-2010
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | And now, why don't you get off the San Borja story---you were NOT there and you do not know what happened---what I reported was not an insult to Jose,
it was what happened----the kids were being pushed by the young ADULT son of Jose, the current woman tour guide and Jose's wife to ask for more and
more money----an unfortunate happening that does not lead to comfortable feelings.
If your experience was different, so be it. |
Just wanted to put my two cents in on this section of the ongoing feud between you two (this is the feud thread, isn't it?).
I know David from our recent trip to Santa Maria Mission and find him to be a wealth of information on Baja. And while I haven't known him to be a
"self-proclaimed expert" on peninsular matters, I would qualify him as an expert from my perspective--and I know a bit about Baja, too.
I don't think he puts on airs of being a "nice guy" so that he can strike at you once your guard is down. I found him to be a helpful, friendly person
who likes to share his knowledge of a place he obviously cares about very much. But I could be wrong, it's been known to happen.
Diana, I don't know you other than through your posts. From them, I think you and I could be friends.
That said, I have to admit that my experiences at San Borja Mission have been the same as yours, Diana. While I found the resident family helpful, my
impression was that it was about money (or goods)-driven to the extreme. Yes, I know, many, if not most, such interactions between residents and
tourists at a tourist destination likely fall under this category, and I accept that. But at San Borja, it was particularly aggressive, to the point
of being unpleasant. The family head drives the kids to be "helpful" to visitors even when such help isn't needed or wanted. They are very pushy,
producing type-written notes in English informing visitors of their needs, should you "wish" to contribute.
Yes, they will provide you with guidance, should you need it (although I didn't care much for the preaching that I had to endure on our way back from
the cave paintings we visited).
I have met other people who shared David's perception of the place, so I know the residents at the mission come across differently to different
people--as we all do. As a cultural anthropologist who has studied tourism, I'm well aware that many local people view the passing tourist as an
economic resource that can only be exploited for a little while before they are off to some other place. That's fine, I have no problem with that, it
is the reality that it is. But I prefer my interaction with locals to be a bit more subdued than I found those folks at San Borja Mission.
[Edited on 7-18-2010 by Bajatripper]
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wessongroup
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 21152
Registered: 8-9-2009
Location: Mission Viejo
Member Is Offline
Mood: Suicide Hot line ... please hold
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see it as a search for truth, and your contributions are welcomed .... at least from me... as the truth shall set you free...
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DianaT
Select Nomad
Posts: 10020
Registered: 12-17-2004
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by wessongroup
see it as a search for truth, and your contributions are welcomed .... at least from me... as the truth shall set you free... |
The search is always good, as long as the truth still has a small t.
Bajatripper,
You are very correct about the things about which DK is very knowledgeable---and it is good when he helps people with those things. In those things he
is the nice guy----but won't go into the history of the other--not neccessary.
| Quote: | Originally posted by Bajatripper
I'm well aware that many local people view the passing tourist as an economic resource that can only be exploited for a little while before they are
off to some other place. That's fine, I have no problem with that, it is the reality that it is. But I prefer my interaction with locals to be a bit
more subdued than I found those folks at San Borja Mission.
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San Borja,
We will continue to visit as we really like it and love showing it to other people. But our experiences have been similar to yours--- In other remote
areas of Baja and the Mainland of Mexico and in Central and South America we have interacted with the locals under similar circumstances and we are
always very generous as we do understand the need and desire of people to make a living, but the pressure at San Borja has been on the extreme
extreme side, unless one is talking about parts of Peru---but that is a different story. And as you said, it is different for different people.
Have enjoyed your posts----we have a separate guest room in Bahia Asuncion-----
Back to turtles. On another thread, someone said they had real information about this situation---I hope they post it.
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Skeet/Loreto
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4709
Registered: 9-2-2003
Member Is Offline
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FOR SALE!
I have several Rib, Spine, Spine Bones from Whales for Sale.
Also have several Lbs of Black Coral taken from 105 Fwwt off of Del Elfonso Island.
Anyone interested can have the Lot for $10,000 Cash.
Skeet
Horny Hot
Hard Hairy
Nothing Like Texas Wildlife
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Bajatripper
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3147
Registered: 3-20-2010
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto
FOR SALE!
I have several Rib, Spine, Spine Bones from Whales for Sale.
Also have several Lbs of Black Coral taken from 105 Fwwt off of Del Elfonso Island.
Anyone interested can have the Lot for $10,000 Cash.
Skeet
Horny Hot
Hard Hairy
Nothing Like Texas Wildlife |
Skeet, if this is a joke (which I have to admit, I don't get), ja, ja.
If not, I would suggest you get this off ASAP, as collecting/trafficing in such stuff is very, very much against Mexican law. And I know you wouldn't
want to violate any laws here, would you?
[Edited on 7-18-2010 by Bajatripper]
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Skeet/Loreto
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4709
Registered: 9-2-2003
Member Is Offline
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Tripper:
The offer is for things transported to the States before the Endergendered Species things came about and I can prove it.
I am sure you remember the Date.
I did not violate any law as there were no such laws at the time,
This is an Honest offer
Black Coral 5 Lbs.
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mtgoat666
Select Nomad
Posts: 17555
Registered: 9-16-2006
Location: San Diego
Member Is Offline
Mood: Hot n spicy
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto
Tripper:
The offer is for things transported to the States before the Endergendered Species things came about and I can prove it.
I am sure you remember the Date.
I did not violate any law as there were no such laws at the time,
This is an Honest offer
Black Coral 5 Lbs. |
skeet,
it is illegal to buy/sell bones of protected species, regardless of date of collection. you need special permission and proof of collection before
ESA date. your advertisement alone is a felony
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desertcpl
Super Nomad
Posts: 2394
Registered: 10-26-2008
Location: yuma,az
Member Is Offline
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SKEET
hold up your right hand and repeat after me
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Skeet/Loreto
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4709
Registered: 9-2-2003
Member Is Offline
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Oh! Goat?
Who do you think may have the Huevos to come to see me and ask me for my Bones. Not one of these Sierria Club Types. I wiil eat them alive.
I do not regonise any of the socalled Bull Puckey Crap brought on by the Sierra Club type members.Nor do I even consider any of the Bul Puckey of the
Bunch who claim :The Sea of Cortez is Ruined.
Goat; Are you really a Chicken??
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