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wessongroup
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Drugs and the War
| Quote: | Originally posted by Woooosh
| Quote: | Originally posted by Dave
| Quote: | Originally posted by Packoderm
randomly testing a person to find out if they smoked a joint last Friday night is un-American in nature. |
Isn't smoking a joint on American soil a 'criminal' act? Wouldn't it be un-American not to report it? |
On the topic of deterring all drug use in the USA- and I threw out employer random drug testing.
I've flip flopped on this before- "I own a persons full attention for 40 hours a week- do I have the right to know/monitor what they do the rest of
the time?" I had a Human Resources Director final candidate come to me after we made the offer to tell me she couldn't pass the drug test (hair
specimen). Was hard to believe and we felt sad for her at the time.
Most all workplaces now drug test after any on the job injury- so the Workers Comp claim can be disallowed.
[Edited on 12-24-2009 by Woooosh] |
good for you Woooosh, I have always based ones ability on the "job" as the true measure of their: reliability, ability on how they preform on the
job... I don't like to prejudge folks.. as I know all of us are not perfect and with past mistakes and let alone their off job "doings" ... to me it
was their business, as long as they show up and get it done.. if the didn't show up, messed up orders, backed trucks into crap and the like, missed
making delivery's and/or just tore up crap in general, rude you know what is needed.. well then I made a mistake on the hire.. and would tell them.
sorry but your out of here...
It always worked for me... have had folks that "chipped" with heroin and still were able to "get er done" and that is the bottom line in my book..
don't care about how much "schoolen one has" don't care if they have been in jail, don't care what religion, don't care if they are man or woman..
only thing, can you get it done !!! to me it the bottom line..
In some positions, truck drivers hauling hazardous materials, and a few other positions folks have to be "tested" to be certified.. would let folks
know.. if they didn't (and most folks that do drugs knew)
I would not rule out anyone about anything... I have always have really good success with this approach.. the folks that I gave a chance (ex-con's,
druggies trying to do right, divorced mom's with no experience in book keeping or what ever I could talk them into doing) .. in many cases THEY did
not think they could do the job (I don't have any education was one that always got me).. on that one I'm with skeets.. having a college degree and
the rest is no assurance that the individual would be able to accomplish a task... have worked with a lot of "educated folks" who could not pour pi**
out of a boot" and had an attitude which in many cases was just not what I needed, wanted or care for.. I like a "can do kind of person", just asking
for a chance!!!
One final thing.. it is a war (political) as it's a law about someone "legal right" to use drugs and this is the way wars like this are fought..
someone gets pay back.. we do the same and in most cases the only the "target" gets hit.. but we all know that just the bad guys are not only ones..
there is most always collateral damage when you hit "small towns".. it happened in Nam, and every one of the "police actions" we have been in since
the end of the second wold war... it's because of the "type" of "wars" these guys/gals are asked to fight in...
Yemeni air strike kills 30, targets home of cleric linked to Ft. Hood attack
aahhhh you might call this pay back.... and, we do pay back and lots of folks get hurt...
some bad and some good...
Living in Mexico, in a war zone... what does one expect....
This ain't Kanas Dorothy
[Edited on 12-24-2009 by wessongroup]
[Edited on 12-24-2009 by wessongroup]
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oldlady
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Nope, and I have my ruby slippers in the closet....just in case.
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k-rico
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employer random drug testing
From personal experience:
Let's say you are a software engineer (lots of them these days) managing a small team of developers working on a project important to the survival of
the company. The lead developer, the guy who works 60 hours per week writing the most complicated code and you've paid for two years to learn where
the software development men's room is, comes up positive for smoking pot over the weekend.
Are you going to tell him to get lost? I don't think so.
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oldlady
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From personal experience: Yes. If you are a good manager you can walk and chew gum at the same time. You have a responsibility to the company and
its values and policies. You have a responsibility for success of the project. The employee has a responsibility to uphold his side of the implied
or explicit contract he agreed to in taking the job.
The loss of a key person is not uncommon in projects or companies. Your job as manager is to minimize the impact and facilitate the success of all
the members of the team..
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wessongroup
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exactly.. is he or she doing their job... "light them if you have them"
[Edited on 12-24-2009 by wessongroup]
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k-rico
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| Quote: | Originally posted by oldlady
From personal experience: Yes. If you are a good manager you can walk and chew gum at the same time. You have a responsibility to the company and
its values and policies. You have a responsibility for success of the project. The employee has a responsibility to uphold his side of the implied
or explicit contract he agreed to in taking the job.
The loss of a key person is not uncommon in projects or companies. Your job as manager is to minimize the impact and facilitate the success of all
the members of the team.. |
Well, there is the ideal and the real. Get real.
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snowcat5
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After reading through all this crap I realize that there sure are a lot of people who think that the drug cartels are profiting from the sale and
exportation of pot. Pot is not the problem; meth and coke are. The meth biz in Mexico is huge, millions of Mexicans are using meth and so are
millions of other people around the world. The Los Cabo area is a prime spot for "Ice" use; ask anyone who works in the construction or hospitality
industries. How about this idea; we eliminate the chemicals used to make meth. Most of the core ingredients come from the USA. About drug
testing; I worked many years for a ski area and they started drug testing the employees about 15 years ago. I worked on a crew that operated $300,000
snowcats, at night. They paid most of us less that $10 an hour. Pot smokers got caught-up in the testing all the time (pot stays in your system for
30 days or more) and were fired when they had a Positive test. Meth and coke users were seldom caught (these drugs were only in you urine for a day
or two) and these Positive employees were offered counseling and rehab. The last season I worked there the GM announce that management would not be
subjected to drug testing. Three months later the GM went into rehab for alcohol, coke and meth use. He took two months off for recovery and came
back to work. He's still the GM there today. He discontinued the drug testing the following year because " the ski area was unable to find enough
clean people to run the lifts. Just food for thought... Have a great Holidaze!
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oldlady
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Been there and done that..real...and coached managers with similar conundrums. What if the employee died? (been there a couple of times too) None of
the projects failed, none of the departments or companies cratered. If you worked for me in a company with zero tolerance and you looked the other
way favoring one employee, you and I would be discussing why you should keep your managerial job.
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k-rico
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| Quote: | Originally posted by lencho
| Quote: | | Originally posted by k-ricoAre you going to tell him to get lost? I don't think so. |
Those weekend activities may be one source of his creative energy... 
--Larry |
Ah, a fellow developer.
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k-rico
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| Quote: | Originally posted by oldlady
Been there and done that..real...and coached managers with similar conundrums. What if the employee died? (been there a couple of times too) None of
the projects failed, none of the departments or companies cratered. If you worked for me in a company with zero tolerance and you looked the other
way favoring one employee, you and I would be discussing why you should keep your managerial job. |
I wouldn't work for a company with zero tolerance. I like to be around people who think. I'd work for your competitor, with zeal.
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oldlady
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Hopefully you will always have that freedom of choice. I love competiton.
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Woooosh
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| Quote: | Originally posted by k-rico
From personal experience:
Let's say you are a software engineer (lots of them these days) managing a small team of developers working on a project important to the survival of
the company. The lead developer, the guy who works 60 hours per week writing the most complicated code and you've paid for two years to learn where
the software development men's room is, comes up positive for smoking pot over the weekend.
Are you going to tell him to get lost? I don't think so. |
Um, yes- you have to if that is your written and fully communicated Human Resources policy. It's called ethics. Ethics can sting, but operating a
business without them is worse (mortgage banking industry two years ago- for example).
My concern in your example would be that this software developer (knowing he could be drug tested- but still used) would be... "OK- he doesn't respect
our drug policy, is he going to respect our Intellectual Rights policy- or sell us out someday? It's all tied together and a slippery slope IMHO.
Most employers state proudly they have a drug-free policy. If you can't pass it, or live with it- just apply and work somewhere else. If you can't
stay clean for those 90 days before applying for a job you really need and want (so you can pass a hair sample test) you have a drug problem- so deal
with that first.
I don't agree all jobs need drug testing.
I did enjoy your post WessonGroup. Thanks.
\"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing\"
1961- JFK to Canadian parliament (Edmund Burke)
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tripledigitken
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| Quote: | Originally posted by k-rico
| Quote: | Originally posted by oldlady
Been there and done that..real...and coached managers with similar conundrums. What if the employee died? (been there a couple of times too) None of
the projects failed, none of the departments or companies cratered. If you worked for me in a company with zero tolerance and you looked the other
way favoring one employee, you and I would be discussing why you should keep your managerial job. |
I wouldn't work for a company with zero tolerance. I like to be around people who think. I'd work for your competitor, with zeal.
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K-Rico,
Bingo, you just figured it out. Most users when they know there is a zero tolerance policy look for other employers. In the last 10 years where I
work, since they started randon drug testing, work place injuries have gone down significantly as have our workman's comp mod rating (down is good).
So in your opinion only those that use drugs are thinkers? Thats an interesting point of view.
Ken
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wessongroup
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Really, the last I heard a oz.. of primo was around $550-650 in the greater Los Angeles area..
That works out to to $8,800/pound and/or $19,360/kilo, not as much return as the other.. but still not a bad days work if one moves just 10 or 20
lbs..
Meth users don't have to be caught or tested... you can see one a mile away... and if they are smoke "crack" same is true.. and most would not be
working anyway they would be getting "wired"..
If they are driving a "snow cat" and do what they are supposed to, and they don't run it over a skier, or off the side of a mountain.. what's the big
woof
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tripledigitken
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| Quote: | Originally posted by wessongroup
If they are driving a "snow cat" and do what they are supposed to, and they don't run it over a skier, or off the side of a mountain.. what's the big
woof
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That statement is ridiculous. You need help.
Ken
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k-rico
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"So in your opinion only those that use drugs are thinkers? Thats an interesting point of view. "
I didn't say that at all. Zero tolerance policies remove judgement of individual cases. That's my problem with them.
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tripledigitken
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k-rico,
I'm glad to here that. You sound smarter than one having that opinion.
Ken
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wessongroup
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| Quote: | Originally posted by tripledigitken
| Quote: | Originally posted by wessongroup
If they are driving a "snow cat" and do what they are supposed to, and they don't run it over a skier, or off the side of a mountain.. what's the big
woof
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That statement is ridiculous. You need help.
Ken |
Only in your narrow world.... and by the way, have you any accounts of this occurring, out on the slopes or are we dealing with, if, may, could,
should, or I think!!! light em if you have them..
[Edited on 12-24-2009 by wessongroup]
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k-rico
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And I'm also smart enough to realize what you guys are saying about agreeing to a policy and then violating it is tough to swallow.
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tripledigitken
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| Quote: | Originally posted by k-rico
And I'm also smart enough to realize what you guys are saying about agreeing to a policy and then violating it is tough to swallow.
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I'm not saying that one should violate a policy after agreeing to it, or what do you mean?
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