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sanquintinsince73
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Iflyfish
sanquintinsince73
Gee, guess I read it wrong.
"Although ACLU's executive director, Anthony D. Romero, is an in-your-face Hispanic homosexual".
You are right of course, no Hispanic or Homosexual would read this as racist or sexist. My bad.
Iflyfish |
By golly you're right!! I in no way perceived this as racist.
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Barry A.
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Iflyfish
sanquintinsince73
Gee, guess I read it wrong.
"Although ACLU's executive director, Anthony D. Romero, is an in-your-face Hispanic homosexual".
You are right of course, no Hispanic or Homosexual would read this as racist or sexist. My bad.
Iflyfish |
They may take it as racist, but that does not mean that it was intended as racist. I have not seen anybody say that there is no racism within the
Republican Party----that would be rediculous-------of course there is racism, as there is racism everywhere. But it is NOT the driving factor, or any
factor at all, in any of the Republican platforms and positions----only the fringe on both sides would think that it was, it seems to me.
Racism is a non-issue in my book in this day and age, and a horribly over-worked word.
Barry
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sanquintinsince73
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Barry A.
| Quote: | Originally posted by Iflyfish
sanquintinsince73
Gee, guess I read it wrong.
"Although ACLU's executive director, Anthony D. Romero, is an in-your-face Hispanic homosexual".
You are right of course, no Hispanic or Homosexual would read this as racist or sexist. My bad.
Iflyfish |
They may take it as racist, but that does not mean that it was intended as racist. I have not seen anybody say that there is no racism within the
Republican Party----that would be rediculous-------of course there is racism, as there is racism everywhere. But it is NOT the driving factor, or any
factor at all, in any of the Republican platforms and positions----only the fringe on both sides would think that it was, it seems to me.
Racism is a non-issue in my book in this day and age, and a horribly over-worked word.
Barry |
Exactly Barry. Now someone here accused me of being anti-Semite. I went to a 99.9% Jewish school in the valley and I still communicate with my buddies
via facebook. Thank God I haven't mentioned that I despise Kimchi or I'd have the Korean contingent on my arse.
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Iflyfish
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sanquintinsince73
"Although ACLU's executive director, Anthony D. Romero, is an in-your-face Hispanic homosexual".
Barry A
"Racism is a non-issue in my book in this day and age, and a horribly over-worked word."
You of course are absolutely right. There is no racism in the above statement. I guess I am just too sensitive. I very much doubt that any Hispanic
would read this as racist.
You would have to look very long and hard to find any Republican who would sound racist to a Hispanic. Just doesn't happen.
Iflyfish
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sanquintinsince73
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Iflyfish
sanquintinsince73
"Although ACLU's executive director, Anthony D. Romero, is an in-your-face Hispanic homosexual".
Barry A
"Racism is a non-issue in my book in this day and age, and a horribly over-worked word."
You of course are absolutely right. There is no racism in the above statement. I guess I am just too sensitive. I very much doubt that any Hispanic
would read this as racist.
You would have to look very long and hard to find any Republican who would sound racist to a Hispanic. Just doesn't happen.
Iflyfish |
The bottom line is that Hispanics (last time I checked I was one, but I am American first) perceive Republicans as racist because we want a secure
border, and we do not believe in awarding a person American citizenship for being in this country illegally. Mr. Iflyfish, don't come to me with
"you're a racist", I know racism. This former Marine has been called a beaner, illegal, wetb*ck, you name it. I come from a long line of battle
hardened patriots. I can't stand that piece of work in the oval office but I am careful not to mention that to much because that makes me a racist.
[Edited on 10-26-2011 by sanquintinsince73]
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Iflyfish
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sanquintinsince73
"Although ACLU's executive director, Anthony D. Romero, is an in-your-face Hispanic homosexual".
"Mr. Iflyfish, don't come to me with "you're a racist", I know racism. This former Marine has been called a beaner, illegal, wetb*ck, you name it."
I never called you a racist. No one could ever mistake you for one. I am glad that Mexicans no longer experience racism or see it in the Republican
Party. I have owned that I am probably way too senstitve and can't imagine a Mexican seeing racism in the quote above or in the Republican focus on
Illegal Immigration, which is what this thread is about.
It is clear from the posts above that racism is no longer a problem in the USofA. I am very relieved to hear this. By the way, I am of Iclandic
heritage so I too know what being a minority is all about.
Iflyfish
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rts551
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Barry A.
They may take it as racist, but that does not mean that it was intended as racist.
Racism is a non-issue in my book in this day and age, and a horribly over-worked word.
Barry |
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MrBillM
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Most
Would not want a Homosexual "in their face" given their personal habits.
Speaking of which; my wife, who is usually very tolerant with her opinions, was watching one of those "Celebrity" shows and came in to say "You know,
Sonny Bono is LUCKY to be dead and not see what's become of his kid".
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Barry A.
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Fish---------It makes my heart swell with pride in that you are FINALLY seeing the light. I have seldom seen such an abrupt turn-a-round, but it
does show what a clear thinker you are, and that you will consider other sides of an argument. Well done!!!
By the way, (again) I don't deny that there is racism, I just think the left way over emphathises it, to the detriment of any rational conversation.
Again I say, "to what end?" (unless to confuse the issue!?!?!?!?)
"Intent" is everything, and "interpretation" is speculation-----we "interpret" normally along bias lines already in our head, often incorrect.
Barry
[Edited on 10-26-2011 by Barry A.]
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Dave
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Disgusting
| Quote: | Originally posted by sanquintinsince73
Executive Director Anthony Romero may largely fulfill the role of a token Latino/homosexual figurehead. Ultimately, he may be Gentile window dressing,
meant to deflect public attention from the real brains behind the ACLU, Strossen and Shapiro.
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The most anti-Semitic statement I've ever read on this board. Did you think this up all by yourself?
I differ with the ACLU on many issues but let's be clear:
The ACLU is a public organization with membership open to all. It is top-heavy with liberals of every religious
flavor...Mostly Christian, BTW. Its board members are elected. The suggestion that it is a Jewish cabal is
preposterous.
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sanquintinsince73
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Dave
| Quote: | Originally posted by sanquintinsince73
Executive Director Anthony Romero may largely fulfill the role of a token Latino/homosexual figurehead. Ultimately, he may be Gentile window dressing,
meant to deflect public attention from the real brains behind the ACLU, Strossen and Shapiro.
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The most anti-Semitic statement I've ever read on this board. Did you think this up all by yourself?
I differ with the ACLU on many issues but let's be clear:
The ACLU is a public organization with membership open to all. It is top-heavy with liberals of every religious
flavor...Mostly Christian, BTW. Its board members are elected. The suggestion that it is a Jewish cabal is
preposterous. |
The ACLU is one of the most out of control left wing organizations in our country, period. One of my pet peeves is picking on the Boy Scouts. The ACLU
has been relentless in trying to kick the Scouts off of public lands, using public buildings or receiving public funds all because the Scouts make you
pledge "to do my duty to God".
Remember there are literally thousands of kids that have abusive parents or parents that just don't care about what their kids do on a daily basis.
The Scouts provide structure that children need. The Scouts also teach responsibility and respect. These are all good things. The ACLU is basically
taking a great, affordable opportunity away from children that need not only time away from chaotic homes, but some sort of structure to help them
learn how to be responsible and how to respect authority.
There are a very small percentage of people in the world that are athiest or agnostic. Can't they just imagine that their god is no god? It doesn't
say that the Scouts have to do their Catholic duty to god or worship Jesus or Buddha, it simply states "god". Not what god, just a god.
The ACLU is also peeed because the Scouts won't allow gay leaders to take the boys into the woods. No chit? They don't allow women or girls to come
into the woods with the boys either. I guess I should keep my mouth shut - that may be next. By the way, where is all of the outrage against Muslim
groups that use public facilities? Clearly, they are discriminating in exactly the same way. If you are not a Muslim, you are not in the club. They
are using a taxpayer funded facility to host their meetings. Where is the outrage? Where are the lawsuits?
Of course there will be none. The ACLU long ago proved itself a far left organization whose sole purpose is to take down traditional (i.e. Christian)
values and morals along with the social structure that goes along with it. No judgements on personal behavior can be made.
By the way, the Scouts have handled the ACLU so poorly it is barely worth comment. They just let the ACLU push them around wherever they want. The
Scouts rarely provide people for interviews where it would do the greatest good - people like O'Reilly have tried their best to defend the Scouts, but
the Scouts seem to be just sitting on their hands. Definitely not the best strategy to take against an organization like the ACLU.
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JoeJustJoe
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| Quote: | Originally posted by sanquintinsince73
| Quote: | Originally posted by Iflyfish
Hey, no racism here. Why would Mexicans not vote Republican?
"Although ACLU's executive director, Anthony D. Romero, is an in-your-face Hispanic homosexual".
This sentence uses race (Hispanic) and sexual orientation (homosexual) to begin it's rant against the ACLU. So from this writers perspective both
Hispanic and Homosexual people are bad.
I can't see why Hispanics would not vote Republican and see their anti-immigration actions as racist. Can you?
Thanks for clarifying this sanquintinsince73
Iflyfish |
Executive Director Anthony Romero may largely fulfill the role of a token Latino/homosexual figurehead. Ultimately, he may be Gentile window dressing,
meant to deflect public attention from the real brains behind the ACLU, Strossen and Shapiro.
I think that this is what the article was trying to convey. |
Hell if Anthony D. Romero was Muslim too. The racist conservatives in the GOP, aka Tea Party would have your perfect Liberal bogeyman poster boy in
a Latino/Gay/Muslim ACLU lawyer! Just think how such a poster boy would fire up the right-wing base.
The fact is the GOP, aka tea party is racist to the bone!
It's no wonder the majority of Blacks, and Latinos vote democrat. There are a few Blacks and Latinos that do vote GOP, but they are such a small
minority and they don't speak for the majority of Blacks and Latinos that find the republican party hostile to Blacks and Mexicans in so many ways.
The few Blacks and Latinos that do vote Republican are either very rich like Herman Cain, but the vast majority of them aren't rich, and vote against
their own interests and are just wannabee rich people, and dream of the day when they are in that 1 percent and they sill reap the benefits of rich
people. Sadly a few Blacks and Latinos are self-hating and that's why they vote GOP, but again it's such a small number of minorities that vote
Republican.
Just the other day Rich Perry brought up the "birther" issue again because he was getting desperate for primary vote, because the "tea party" people
jumped off the Perry bandwagon because he dared to give undocumented Mexican kids college tuition breaks in Texas. Can you believe the "tea party"
dumped Perry over this one issue? Gee how racist!
[Edited on 10-26-2011 by JoeJustJoe]
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Iflyfish
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Barry
"Intent" is everything, and "interpretation" is speculation-----we "interpret" normally along bias lines already in our head, often incorrect.
sanquintinsince73
"Although ACLU's executive director, Anthony D. Romero, is an in-your-face Hispanic homosexual".
What you say is true. I could certainly be possible to interpret this statement as saying that the writer likes "in-your-face Hispanic homosexual"s.
Or perhaps the author approves of homosexuality but simply does not like it "in your face". It may also be possible that he felt the need to simply
educate others as to the race and sexuality of the director of this agency so that the reader could make an unbiased decision about the racism of the
ACLU. Certainly no racism implied, it is only in my mind.
It seemed to me the article was about how the "Jews" run the ACLU and that they are somehow Anti-Israel and anti-chrisian. But then I am no doubt
misreading this too thru my overly sensive blue Icelandic eyes.
sanquintinsince73
"Not a anti-Semite, I believe that we should defend Israel at all cost. It is the American Jews and their anti-Christian agenda that I have a problem
with. Read on:
ACLU TOP HEAVY WITH JEWS"
Why in the world would you find so many Jews in an organization thats mission is to defend civil liberties? Who would think that Jews had any stake in
this issue? Why would Jews want to defend freedom of speach, assembly etc.? Beats me?
Why would so many Jews be found in the ACLU when there are so many Jews in the Legal Profession. Why would jews be interested in an organization that
fights racism? Got me there?
I went to the ACLU site and read the history of the organization
http://www.aclu.org/aclu-history
I still don't get why Jews would be interested in all of these issues. There can't be much money in it. It looks like you can be of any race,
ethnicity or sexual orientation to work for the ACLU. I wonder why so many Jewish Lawyers end up there? I would think their parents would want them
working for Wall Street and the Banks.
I don't get why Jewish ACLU attorneys would defend Christian kids who were wearing t shirts with the name of their church and a Bible verse on the
front and "Islam is of the devil" on the back.
http://scienceblogs.com/dispatches/2009/11/aclu_defends_chri...
Why would these Jewish ACLU attorneys defend the students when Virginia schools stripped students' locker doors of their postings of the Ten
Commandments, both Christian advocacy defenders and the ACLU have come to the defense of the Christian students.
http://culturecampaign.blogspot.com/2011/02/school-bans-ten-...
I can see how one could interpret this to be anti-christian activity if you looked at it just right. I am sure that the Heritage Foundation think tank
is working on that one right now.
Iflyfish
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Barry A.
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What puzzles me, Fish, is why does the left ALWAYS seem to assume that so much stuff that Righties say is "racist", and therefore they seem to assume
that the individual MUST be a "racist", and then scream about it??? Just where does that get you??? I think it is simply a political ploy. We on
the right see things differently than you on the left do, and we phrase things differently, we interpret things differently------thats a given, and
has been proven over and over again. If we could just accept that, and work around it, I believe that we could get a lot more done, but I guess that
is far to simplistic. Well, the way we are operating now in these discussions is certainly not the best way--------and it is "not working out well
for us" at all.
I wish I had the answers--------but I don't, except in my mind I do, but I cannot express it in a way that makes any sense to most Democrats. We are
beating our mutual heads against a stone wall, it seems. 
Very frustrating. I don't believe I have a racist bone in my body, but I refuse to back away from the facts presented to me, and to talk about them,
no matter how un-PC that appears to the lefties. I assume you feel the same?
Barry
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Cypress
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"Liberals aren't ignorant, they know a lot that isn't true." Ronald Reagan
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JoeJustJoe
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Ronald Reagan suffered Alzheimer’s while in office, according to his son!
Thank God for Nancy Reagans astrologers who was giving the Reagan's advice and calling the shots according to how the stars were lined up.
I guess anything is better than letting a crazy senile GOP President like Reagan call the shots.
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sanquintinsince73
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| Quote: | Originally posted by JoeJustJoe
Ronald Reagan suffered Alzheimer’s while in office, according to his son!
Thank God for Nancy Reagans astrologers who was giving the Reagan's advice and calling the shots according to how the stars were lined up.
I guess anything is better than letting a crazy senile GOP President like Reagan call the shots. |
You're to much bro.
[Edited on 10-26-2011 by sanquintinsince73]
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Cypress
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I repeat. Liberals aren't ignorant, they know a lot that isn't true.
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MrBillM
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Little Ronnie Wrong
He mistakenly "thought" his Dad was suffering from a memory problem when the Old Man refused to acknowledge seeing Dancing Boy in a Tutu.
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Iflyfish
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Barry A.
I respect your point of view. I think where we do agree is that there is a profound history of racism in America. I think we can agree that the Irish,
Italians, Germans, Asians, Blacks, Native Americans, Hispanics and people of minority genders and religions have all experienced discrimination. I
think we can agree that some of the groups named above have experienced racial discrimination. I won't cite resources or examples of these statements
unless someone requests that I do.
I also think that we can agree that racism and discrimination still exist in our society. I can cite resources and examples if requested to do so. I
believe that every one of us has seen or experienced this racism and discrimination in our lives either on the receiving end or on the delivery end or
possibly both.
You and I might differ on how to address these issues, but ignoring them is not in my view an option. I think that we both can agree that racism and
discrimination is abuse. On a psychological level I know that acknowledgement of wrong is a necessary part of healing or resolve of abuse. I think we
can agree that denial of racism and discrimination does not stop it.
I believe we can agree that as a country we have made progress in the area of race relationships. I assume we can agree that some people operate with
a "victim" mentality and "persecute" others from that position while others play the role of “rescuer”. I believe that there is a psychological dance
that involves moving from the victim to the rescuer or persecutor position. I believe that like a musical triad there are innumerable dances that can
occur using these steps.
I see these dynamics play out in our discussions on either side of the political spectrum. (I actually think that rather than a linier measure with
the right/left, I think it is a circle and where the right and left meet is Libertarianism).
Here is how the dance goes:
#1 starts out persecuting i.e. "Although ACLU's executive director, Anthony D. Romero, is an in-your-face Hispanic homosexual".
Then #2 says then rescues the minority, or in this case minorities “That is a racist statement”
Then #1 assumes the victim position and persecutes #2 “how dare you accuse me of being racist. You Liberals are always playing the race card”.
Then #2 either responds from the victim position and defends their position or goes prosecutorial and attacks.
The problem as I see it is that this sort of dialogue is a psychological game and that is why resolution is so elusive. I have experienced you
attempting to come to genuine understanding and resolution, as your last post to me demonstrates. In my view there are reasonable solutions to the
problems we address. This requires that each person understand and acknowledge the logical assertions of the other person.
In my view there are real facts however there are masters of spin afloat with the goal of polarizing the electorate in order that the real issues are
not addressed. Again I would direct all readers to the website of Republican Buddy Roemer. http://www.buddyroemer.com/meet-buddy
I believe that Buddy Roemer is the only political candidate who is actually addressing the very real problems that our nation faces. He however cannot
get air time because he only accepts $100 donations and refuses to be bundled and sold by Corporations or Corporate Media. I believe that this
candidate addresses many of the fundamental issues that have corroded and undermined our political landscape. I believe that both the left and right
can agree with him on many issues. There is common ground if we can move out of the dance we are now engaged in.
http://www.buddyroemer.com/issues
This thread was started based upon a question, that question is whether or not the Republican focus on Illegal Immigration would alienate Hispanic
Voters. The discussion devolved into a discussion of racism, one of the potential reasons that Hispanics might not vote Republican. I believe that we
saw a reasonable discussion descend into a dance of persecutor/rescuer/victim and resolution eluded us.
My view is that the focus on Illegal Immigration, Birther issues, Reproductive rights etc. are red herring that direct our legitimate frustrations and
anger away from the rot that is at the core of our political apple. Neither Democrats nor Republicans are addressing these issues. The voting public
has been shaped into believing that issues like these, including the national debt, deregulation and taxes are the fundamental issues that face us
today. I believe that the Corporatization of politics in America is the fundamental issue that must be addressed. Buddy Roemer has put them front and
center of his campaign. He is the ONLY one who is doing so and he can get virtually NO AIR TIME. His agenda is not in the interest of the top 1%,
Corporate Politicians, Corporations and the Corporate Media who makes big bucks on political campaigns.
The Corporatization of American Politics is an issue that I believe unites the concerns of both the Tea Party and the Occupy Wall Street movements.
Iflyfish
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